Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 01:19 AM - Re: Yak-52 Max Altitude (Robin Hou)
2. 06:39 AM - Flour Bombing (Philip Nicholson)
3. 07:42 AM - Re: Flour Bombing (Mark Davis)
4. 08:45 AM - Re: Flour Bombing (Jon Blake)
5. 08:45 AM - Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: Yak-52 Max Altitude (Bitterlich, Mark G CIV NAVAIR, WD)
6. 09:27 AM - Re: WTB: CJ-6 (nylbrooks)
7. 11:39 AM - Re: Yak-52 Max Altitude (cjpilot710)
8. 11:42 AM - Re: Yak-52 Max Altitude (cjpilot710)
9. 11:57 AM - Re: Flour Bombing (cjpilot710)
10. 01:31 PM - Re: Yak-52 Max Altitude (Roger Kemp)
11. 01:33 PM - Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: Yak-52 Max Altitude (Roger Kemp)
12. 01:54 PM - Re: Yak-52 Max Altitude (Roger Kemp)
13. 03:16 PM - Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: Flour Bombing (Bitterlich, Mark G CIV NAVAIR, WD)
14. 03:21 PM - Re: Flour Bombing (Bill Lang)
15. 03:52 PM - Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: Flour Bombing (William Halverson)
16. 04:32 PM - Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: Flour Bombing (Roger Kemp)
17. 05:39 PM - Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: Flour Bombing (Rico Jaeger)
18. 05:52 PM - Re: WTB: CJ-6 (n38139)
19. 05:52 PM - Contact Info (n38139)
20. 06:04 PM - Re: Yak-52 Max Altitude (Tom Elliott)
21. 07:53 PM - Flower bombing and more (Richard Goode)
22. 08:34 PM - Re: Yak-52 Max Altitude (William Halverson)
23. 10:57 PM - Re: Flower bombing and more (Jan Mevis)
24. 11:01 PM - Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: Flour Bombing (Jan Mevis)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Yak-52 Max Altitude |
Light weight (less than 2000 lb; Nie 17 loaded is only 1232 lb), low wing
loading (less than 8 lb/sqft).
via CloudMagic Email [https://cloudmagic.
com/k/d/mailapp?ct=pa&cv=8.4.40&pv=5.1&source=email_footer_2] On
Thu, Aug 18, 2016 at 10:35 PM, Jan Mevis < jan.mevis@informavia.be [jan.
mevis@informavia.be] > wrote:
So if it takes a long time to get
higher than 14500 feet with a Yak or a CJ, how did the aces in WW I do it
with their albatrosses, sopwiths, nieuports and the like, up to 20000 feet
or 6 kilometers?
From: < owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] > on behalf of Jon Blake <
jblake207@comcast.net [jblake207@comcast.net] >
yak-list@matronics.com [yak-list@matronics.com] " < yak-list@matronics.com
[yak-list@matronics.com] >
yak-list@matronics.com [yak-list@matronics.com] >
Subject: Re: Yak-List:
Yak-52 Max Altitude
Well, I've had my stock, 285HP CJ to 14,501 feet and
she was willing to go even higher, but I didn't want to embarrass the YAK52
I was flying wing on... JB
Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE DROID
Dave Jester < wdjester@cox.net [wdjester@cox.net] > wrote:
I have been to 14,500 feet in my 52TD Termikas conversion. Sluggish on the
controls that high. Or maybe I was suffering from hypoxia and I was the one
sluggish! It was neat when a regional jet passed me 500 feet below. :)
On Aug 18, 2016, at 2:48 AM, Mike Beresford < mike_beresford@yahoo.co.uk
[mike_beresford@yahoo.co.uk] > wrote:
Hi all
I've seen a maximum operating
altitude for the Yak-52 quoted as 4,000 m (13,000 ft). Obviously this
requires pilot oxygen, but is the altitude limitation due to operational
procedures, or a technical limitation on the aircraft?
Someone suggested to me that the fuel mixture compensation may run out of
travel above the altitude limit. Anyone have some insight into the
behaviour of the engine above 13,000 ft?
Blue skies Mike
Message 2
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Hi guys,
There=99s a flour bombing competition at the local strip next weekend
.
Does anyone have any clever ideas on releasing the bag of flour? Surely
there=99s a better way than simply heaving it over the side onto the
wing and
having it slide of. Secondly, does anyone have any tactics they wish to
share? i.e., how many feet in front of the target to release wheth
er to
=98toss=99 it or approach level etc? Any formulas? J
Never done it before so any input welcome.
Phil N.
Nanchang =93 CJ6A
C-FEPN - Ottawa
Message 3
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Phil,
It all depends on the shape/weight of the "bomb" and whatever
course rules they set up for the bombing, such as minimum altitude,
airspeed, dive angle (if any allowed). So the best chance is to find
out those parameters, make your own practice "bombs" and go see what
works. Chucking them over the side works fine particularly if you have
a GIB, but they have to be consistent on how they throw it over the side
and make sure it's thrown out the same side every time to be able to
predict the effect of prop wash. For YAKs if prefer the left side so
the prop wash is pushing down to lessen the chance of hitting the
horizontal stab. The pilot has to be very consistent with
altitude/airspeed and then look for clues as to wind direction/velocity
to make corrections. With a little practice at YAK/CJ speeds you can
get pretty accurate. I also suggest taking a roll of masking tape along
to reinforce whatever bombs you're given so you don't have to clean
flour out of the aft cockpit when one "explodes" prematurely as it
enters the slipstream.
Fly Navy,
Mark Davis
N44YK
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Philip
Nicholson
Sent: Friday, August 19, 2016 7:37 AM
Subject: Yak-List: Flour Bombing
Hi guys,
There=99s a flour bombing competition at the local strip next
weekend.
Does anyone have any clever ideas on releasing the bag of flour? Surely
there=99s a better way than simply heaving it over the side onto
the wing and having it slide of. Secondly, does anyone have any tactics
they wish to share? i.e., how many feet in front of the target to
release whether to =98toss=99 it or approach level
etc? Any formulas? J
Never done it before so any input welcome.
Phil N.
Nanchang =93 CJ6A
C-FEPN - Ottawa
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Flour Bombing |
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Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Yak-52 Max Altitude |
I've had my YAK-50 up to 17,500 (on oxygen by the way), just to see if I could
do it. It wasn't climbing very fast, but still had way more to go. I stopped
because I was too darn cold, and I was not IFR equipped.
Of course I've never found a CJ that could keep up with me in any regard, so there
is that. :-) Except for the cockpit heater of course.
Mark
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jon Blake
Sent: Thursday, August 18, 2016 6:01 PM
Subject: [Non-DoD Source] Re: Yak-List: Yak-52 Max Altitude
Well, I've had my stock, 285HP CJ to 14,501 feet and she was willing to go even
higher, but I didn't want to embarrass the YAK52 I was flying wing on... JB
Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE DROID
Dave Jester <wdjester@cox.net> wrote:
I have been to 14,500 feet in my 52TD Termikas conversion. Sluggish on the controls
that high. Or maybe I was suffering from hypoxia and I was the one sluggish!
It was neat when a regional jet passed me 500 feet below. :)
On Aug 18, 2016, at 2:48 AM, Mike Beresford <mike_beresford@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
Hi all
I've seen a maximum operating altitude for the Yak-52 quoted as 4,000 m
(13,000 ft). Obviously this requires pilot oxygen, but is the altitude limitation
due to operational procedures, or a technical limitation on the aircraft?
Someone suggested to me that the fuel mixture compensation may run out
of travel above the altitude limit. Anyone have some insight into the behaviour
of the engine above 13,000 ft?
Blue skies
Mike
Message 6
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Contact Information?
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=459654#459654
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| Subject: | Re: Yak-52 Max Altitude |
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Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Yak-52 Max Altitude |
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bm5lciwgYW5kIGlzIApiZWxpZXZlZCB0byBiZSBjbGVhbi4gCg=
Message 9
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CiAgICAKSWYgd2UgdGVsbCB5b3UgaG93IHRvIGRvIGl0IHRoZW4geW91IGJlY29tZSBjb21wZXRp
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LgoKwqAKClBoaWwgTi4KCk5hbmNoYW5nIOKAkyBDSjZBCgpDLUZFUE4gLSBPdHRhd2EKCgo
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Yak-52 Max Altitude |
FL 180 was listed somewhere for the YAK 52. Scotty "Sky King" Patterson got h
is YAK up to FL 200. He filed IFR to do it. Pretty much caught the low jet f
rom Selma to MGM in 5 min. Good thing since he used most of his fuel to get u
p there.
Doc
Sent from my iPad
> On Aug 19, 2016, at 1:41 PM, cjpilot710 <cjpilot710@aol.com> wrote:
>
> Plus I seem to remember reading in a Chinese manual or Jean's the CJ6A was
capable of 17,000 feet.
>
>
>
> Sent via the Samsung GALAXY S=C2=AE 5, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone
>
>
> -------- Original message --------
> From: Jan Mevis <jan.mevis@informavia.be>
> Date: 8/19/2016 2:14 AM (GMT-05:00)
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Yak-52 Max Altitude
>
> I confirm having read this in several old books (e.g.the book written in G
othic German by Lothar von Richthofen, the brother of the Red Baron who was a
lso a pilot).
> They routinely flew at altitudes of 4000 to 5000 meters, according to thes
e books.
>
> I still find this incredible to believe.
> Let=99s assume that the pilot indeed read this altitude on his altim
eter.
> Were those early instruments that precise or well calibrated?
>
> It=99s not very important to know of course, only for academic pleas
ure.
>
> Jan, Yak 50 F-AZUK
>
> From: <owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com> on behalf of Richard Goode <ri
chard.goode@russianaeros.com>
> Date: Friday 19 August 2016 at 07:44
> To: "yak-list@matronics.com" <yak-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: RE: Yak-List: Yak-52 Max Altitude
>
> They definitely did! I suspect because the aircraft were so incredibly lig
ht.
>
> Richard Goode
>
> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@ma
tronics.com] On Behalf Of Jan Mevis
> Sent: 19 August 2016 06:25
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Yak-52 Max Altitude
>
> So if it takes a long time to get higher than 14500 feet with a Y
ak or a CJ, how did the aces in WW I do it with their albatrosses, sopwiths,
nieuports and the like, up to 20000 feet or 6 kilometers?
>
> From: <owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com> on behalf of Jon Blake <jblake
207@comcast.net>
> Date: Friday 19 August 2016 at 00:00
> To: "yak-list@matronics.com" <yak-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Yak-52 Max Altitude
>
> Well, I've had my stock, 285HP CJ to 14,501 feet and she was willing to go
even higher, but I didn't want to embarrass the YAK52 I was flying wing on.
.. JB
>
> Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE DROID
>
>
> Dave Jester <wdjester@cox.net> wrote:
>
> I have been to 14,500 feet in my 52TD Termikas conversion. Sluggish on t
he controls that high. Or maybe I was suffering from hypoxia and I was the o
ne sluggish! It was neat when a regional jet passed me 500 feet below. :)
>
>
> On Aug 18, 2016, at 2:48 AM, Mike Beresford <mike_beresford@yahoo.co.uk> w
rote:
>
>
> Hi all
>
> I've seen a maximum operating altitude for the Yak-52 quoted as 4,000 m (1
3,000 ft). Obviously this requires pilot oxygen, but is the altitude limitat
ion due to operational procedures, or a technical limitation on the aircraft
?
>
> Someone suggested to me that the fuel mixture compensation may run out of t
ravel above the altitude limit. Anyone have some insight into the behaviour o
f the engine above 13,000 ft?
>
> Blue skies
> Mike
>
>
> --
> This message has been scanned for viruses and
> dangerous content by MailScanner, and is
> believed to be clean.
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Yak-52 Max Altitude |
Sent from my iPad
> On Aug 19, 2016, at 10:45 AM, Bitterlich, Mark G CIV NAVAIR, WD <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
wrote:
>
>
> I've had my YAK-50 up to 17,500 (on oxygen by the way), just to see if I could
do it. It wasn't climbing very fast, but still had way more to go. I stopped
because I was too darn cold, and I was not IFR equipped.
>
> Of course I've never found a CJ that could keep up with me in any regard, so
there is that. :-) Except for the cockpit heater of course.
>
> Mark
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jon Blake
> Sent: Thursday, August 18, 2016 6:01 PM
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Subject: [Non-DoD Source] Re: Yak-List: Yak-52 Max Altitude
>
> Well, I've had my stock, 285HP CJ to 14,501 feet and she was willing to go even
higher, but I didn't want to embarrass the YAK52 I was flying wing on... JB
>
> Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE DROID
>
>
> Dave Jester <wdjester@cox.net> wrote:
>
>
> I have been to 14,500 feet in my 52TD Termikas conversion. Sluggish on the controls
that high. Or maybe I was suffering from hypoxia and I was the one sluggish!
It was neat when a regional jet passed me 500 feet below. :)
>
>
> On Aug 18, 2016, at 2:48 AM, Mike Beresford <mike_beresford@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>
>
> Hi all
>
> I've seen a maximum operating altitude for the Yak-52 quoted as 4,000
m (13,000 ft). Obviously this requires pilot oxygen, but is the altitude limitation
due to operational procedures, or a technical limitation on the aircraft?
>
> Someone suggested to me that the fuel mixture compensation may run out
of travel above the altitude limit. Anyone have some insight into the behaviour
of the engine above 13,000 ft?
>
> Blue skies
> Mike
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Yak-52 Max Altitude |
The Brits had a Dolphin that routinely operated at FL 200. The Focker DVII w
as good for FL180 so the SEA 5's and Dolphins would lurk above cloud decks w
aiting for the Fockers to appear over the FEBA. The SPAD VII-XIII and the Ni
euport 28 C1 were capable of FL180-200 on very cold days also but that was n
ear their max.
The Germans had a two seat observation aircraft, Rumpler, the flew at FL 200
and occasionally on really cold days FL210.
All of the WW I drivers had balls. Short lives too. It was the Germans that d
eveloped the parachute for fighters near the end of the War.
Doc
Sent from my iPad
> On Aug 19, 2016, at 1:14 AM, Jan Mevis <jan.mevis@informavia.be> wrote:
>
> I confirm having read this in several old books (e.g.the book written in G
othic German by Lothar von Richthofen, the brother of the Red Baron who was a
lso a pilot).
> They routinely flew at altitudes of 4000 to 5000 meters, according to thes
e books.
>
> I still find this incredible to believe.
> Let=99s assume that the pilot indeed read this altitude on his altim
eter.
> Were those early instruments that precise or well calibrated?
>
> It=99s not very important to know of course, only for academic pleas
ure.
>
> Jan, Yak 50 F-AZUK
>
> From: <owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com> on behalf of Richard Goode <ri
chard.goode@russianaeros.com>
> Date: Friday 19 August 2016 at 07:44
> To: "yak-list@matronics.com" <yak-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: RE: Yak-List: Yak-52 Max Altitude
>
> They definitely did! I suspect because the aircraft were so incredibly lig
ht.
>
> Richard Goode
>
> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@ma
tronics.com] On Behalf Of Jan Mevis
> Sent: 19 August 2016 06:25
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Yak-52 Max Altitude
>
> So if it takes a long time to get higher than 14500 feet with a Y
ak or a CJ, how did the aces in WW I do it with their albatrosses, sopwiths,
nieuports and the like, up to 20000 feet or 6 kilometers?
>
> From: <owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com> on behalf of Jon Blake <jblake
207@comcast.net>
> Date: Friday 19 August 2016 at 00:00
> To: "yak-list@matronics.com" <yak-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Yak-52 Max Altitude
>
> Well, I've had my stock, 285HP CJ to 14,501 feet and she was willing to go
even higher, but I didn't want to embarrass the YAK52 I was flying wing on.
.. JB
>
> Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE DROID
>
>
> Dave Jester <wdjester@cox.net> wrote:
>
> I have been to 14,500 feet in my 52TD Termikas conversion. Sluggish on t
he controls that high. Or maybe I was suffering from hypoxia and I was the o
ne sluggish! It was neat when a regional jet passed me 500 feet below. :)
>
>
> On Aug 18, 2016, at 2:48 AM, Mike Beresford <mike_beresford@yahoo.co.uk> w
rote:
>
>
> Hi all
>
> I've seen a maximum operating altitude for the Yak-52 quoted as 4,000 m (1
3,000 ft). Obviously this requires pilot oxygen, but is the altitude limitat
ion due to operational procedures, or a technical limitation on the aircraft
?
>
> Someone suggested to me that the fuel mixture compensation may run out of t
ravel above the altitude limit. Anyone have some insight into the behaviour o
f the engine above 13,000 ft?
>
> Blue skies
> Mike
>
>
> --
> This message has been scanned for viruses and
> dangerous content by MailScanner, and is
> believed to be clean.
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My first flour bombing contest was in a T-34B. Beach N4756 out of Cherry Point
Aero Club. Had a good friend and pilot in the back. We came zorching in out
of a dive and missed the target by a rather embarrassing amount. Next sack was
just as bad. So the decision was, if you can't be good at the bombing, at
least look good in the air.
On the next pass I came in and went to the runway... mere feet about the concrete.
The rules gave a minimum RELEASE altitude, but didn't really specify a hard
deck. So, in we came.
Somewhat short of the bulls-eye ring, I pulled way too much G for that old beast
and up into the vertical we went. Right before the kick for the hammerhead my
friend in back threw the bag straight out the top of the canopy. The hammerhead
was pretty close to zero airspeed. No arc, and lots of airframe shaking
is the give-away. As I reached the vertical downline, I swore I could see that
bag heading down in front of me, but it was probably my imagination.
After landing, we were banned from further flour bombing. Seems people were running
for cover and the bag hit a nearby hangar roof, and the owner was none too
pleased.
That said, most folks said it was the most awesome flour bombing attempt they had
ever seen. Missed by a mile, but got points for style.
Of course this was 40 years ago. :-)
Mark
________________________________
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com]
on behalf of cjpilot710 [cjpilot710@aol.com]
Sent: Friday, August 19, 2016 2:56 PM
Subject: [Non-DoD Source] RE: Yak-List: Flour Bombing
If we tell you how to do it then you become competition!
However being a good sport what you want to do is line the airplane up (your Center
Line with the target) when you can see it, pick-up a point out on one side
of the airplane even with the target far enough out so that you can see it when
you go directly over the target . Toss the bag of flour out the back or
out the front. Do so as the reference point you picked even with the target,
is about a foot in front of the Leading Edge of the wing. This is good for a
200-foot altitude at cruise speed.
Sent via the Samsung GALAXY S 5, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone
-------- Original message --------
From: Philip Nicholson <pednicholson@gmail.com>
Subject: Yak-List: Flour Bombing
Hi guys,
Theres a flour bombing competition at the local strip next weekend.
Does anyone have any clever ideas on releasing the bag of flour? Surely theres
a better way than simply heaving it over the side onto the wing and having it
slide of. Secondly, does anyone have any tactics they wish to share? i.e., how
many feet in front of the target to release whether to toss it or approach level
etc? Any formulas? :)
Never done it before so any input welcome.
Phil N.
Nanchang CJ6A
C-FEPN - Ottawa
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Flour Bombing |
The Australian contingent of Yak/Chang operators, Red Radials Air Brigade (
light expeditionary) or RRABLE, has been doing flour bombing as part of our
6 monthly fly away competitions for several years now. Fully risk assessed
, with SOP for that and other exercises including streamer cutting, we have
CASA approval (ozFAA). If you don't want to reinvent the wheel, contact me
off list and I can email all you need.
Bill
Sent from my iPad
On 20 Aug 2016, at 01:52, Jon Blake <jblake207@comcast.net<mailto:jblake207
@comcast.net>> wrote:
Phil, constants are the key... level altitude and constant ground speed. Ha
ving someone on the ground giving you a battle damage assessment is vital.
Pick a speed (110) and altitude (200) and as the target disappears under th
e leading edge wing if releasing from back seat or the nose if from front s
eat toss down and aft... then adjust azimuth and release point based on BDA
report from the ground guy. Another technique is to dive towards a point
just beyond the target...maybe 20-30 feet and try to maintain a constant sp
eed in the dive and release at 250 feet or just as you're pulling out. CAUT
ION... TARGET FIXATION IS A REAL DANGER AND YOU'LL BUST THE HARD DECK OR YO
UR ASS. This dive bomb technique is less accurate and higher risk in my opi
nion. And finally the best technique for a winning score is to bribe the ju
dge... Good luck. Saber
Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE DROID
Philip Nicholson <pednicholson@gmail.com<mailto:pednicholson@gmail.com>> wr
ote:
Hi guys,
There's a flour bombing competition at the local strip next weekend.
Does anyone have any clever ideas on releasing the bag of flour? Surely the
re's a better way than simply heaving it over the side onto the wing and ha
ving it slide of. Secondly, does anyone have any tactics they wish to share
? i.e., how many feet in front of the target to release... whether to 'toss
' it or approach level etc? Any formulas? :)
Never done it before so any input welcome.
Phil N.
Nanchang - CJ6A
C-FEPN - Ottawa
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Flour Bombing |
Well what did you expect?
Zoomies have no sense of humor ...
"NAVAIR" says it all.
Fly NAVY, let the zoomies clean up the mess ...
On 8/19/2016 6:16 PM, Bitterlich, Mark G CIV NAVAIR, WD wrote:
>
> My first flour bombing contest was in a T-34B. Beach N4756 out of Cherry Point
Aero Club. Had a good friend and pilot in the back. We came zorching in out
of a dive and missed the target by a rather embarrassing amount. Next sack
was just as bad. So the decision was, if you can't be good at the bombing, at
least look good in the air.
>
>
> On the next pass I came in and went to the runway... mere feet about the concrete.
The rules gave a minimum RELEASE altitude, but didn't really specify a
hard deck. So, in we came.
>
>
> Somewhat short of the bulls-eye ring, I pulled way too much G for that old beast
and up into the vertical we went. Right before the kick for the hammerhead
my friend in back threw the bag straight out the top of the canopy. The hammerhead
was pretty close to zero airspeed. No arc, and lots of airframe shaking
is the give-away. As I reached the vertical downline, I swore I could see that
bag heading down in front of me, but it was probably my imagination.
>
>
> After landing, we were banned from further flour bombing. Seems people were
running for cover and the bag hit a nearby hangar roof, and the owner was none
too pleased.
>
>
> That said, most folks said it was the most awesome flour bombing attempt they
had ever seen. Missed by a mile, but got points for style.
>
>
> Of course this was 40 years ago. :-)
>
>
> Mark
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com]
on behalf of cjpilot710 [cjpilot710@aol.com]
> Sent: Friday, August 19, 2016 2:56 PM
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Subject: [Non-DoD Source] RE: Yak-List: Flour Bombing
>
> If we tell you how to do it then you become competition!
>
> However being a good sport what you want to do is line the airplane up (your
Center Line with the target) when you can see it, pick-up a point out on one side
of the airplane even with the target far enough out so that you can see it
when you go directly over the target . Toss the bag of flour out the back or
out the front. Do so as the reference point you picked even with the target,
is about a foot in front of the Leading Edge of the wing. This is good for
a 200-foot altitude at cruise speed.
>
>
> Sent via the Samsung GALAXY S 5, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone
>
>
> -------- Original message --------
> From: Philip Nicholson <pednicholson@gmail.com>
> Date: 8/19/2016 9:36 AM (GMT-05:00)
> To: Yak-List <Yak-List@matronics.com>
> Subject: Yak-List: Flour Bombing
>
>
> Hi guys,
>
> Theres a flour bombing competition at the local strip next weekend.
>
> Does anyone have any clever ideas on releasing the bag of flour? Surely theres
a better way than simply heaving it over the side onto the wing and having it
slide of. Secondly, does anyone have any tactics they wish to share? i.e., how
many feet in front of the target to release whether to toss it or approach
level etc? Any formulas? :)
>
> Never done it before so any input welcome.
>
>
> Phil N.
>
> Nanchang CJ6A
>
> C-FEPN - Ottawa
>
>
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Flour Bombing |
Now that purity funny there, I don't care who you are!
Doc
Sent from my iPad
> On Aug 19, 2016, at 5:16 PM, Bitterlich, Mark G CIV NAVAIR, WD <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
wrote:
>
>
> My first flour bombing contest was in a T-34B. Beach N4756 out of Cherry Point
Aero Club. Had a good friend and pilot in the back. We came zorching in out
of a dive and missed the target by a rather embarrassing amount. Next sack
was just as bad. So the decision was, if you can't be good at the bombing, at
least look good in the air.
>
>
>
> On the next pass I came in and went to the runway... mere feet about the concrete.
The rules gave a minimum RELEASE altitude, but didn't really specify a
hard deck. So, in we came.
>
>
>
> Somewhat short of the bulls-eye ring, I pulled way too much G for that old beast
and up into the vertical we went. Right before the kick for the hammerhead
my friend in back threw the bag straight out the top of the canopy. The hammerhead
was pretty close to zero airspeed. No arc, and lots of airframe shaking
is the give-away. As I reached the vertical downline, I swore I could see that
bag heading down in front of me, but it was probably my imagination.
>
>
>
> After landing, we were banned from further flour bombing. Seems people were
running for cover and the bag hit a nearby hangar roof, and the owner was none
too pleased.
>
>
>
> That said, most folks said it was the most awesome flour bombing attempt they
had ever seen. Missed by a mile, but got points for style.
>
>
>
> Of course this was 40 years ago. :-)
>
>
>
> Mark
>
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com]
on behalf of cjpilot710 [cjpilot710@aol.com]
> Sent: Friday, August 19, 2016 2:56 PM
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Subject: [Non-DoD Source] RE: Yak-List: Flour Bombing
>
> If we tell you how to do it then you become competition!
>
> However being a good sport what you want to do is line the airplane up (your
Center Line with the target) when you can see it, pick-up a point out on one side
of the airplane even with the target far enough out so that you can see it
when you go directly over the target . Toss the bag of flour out the back or
out the front. Do so as the reference point you picked even with the target,
is about a foot in front of the Leading Edge of the wing. This is good for
a 200-foot altitude at cruise speed.
>
>
>
> Sent via the Samsung GALAXY S 5, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone
>
>
> -------- Original message --------
> From: Philip Nicholson <pednicholson@gmail.com>
> Date: 8/19/2016 9:36 AM (GMT-05:00)
> To: Yak-List <Yak-List@matronics.com>
> Subject: Yak-List: Flour Bombing
>
>
> Hi guys,
>
> Theres a flour bombing competition at the local strip next weekend.
>
> Does anyone have any clever ideas on releasing the bag of flour? Surely theres
a better way than simply heaving it over the side onto the wing and having it
slide of. Secondly, does anyone have any tactics they wish to share? i.e., how
many feet in front of the target to release whether to toss it or approach
level etc? Any formulas? :)
>
> Never done it before so any input welcome.
>
>
>
> Phil N.
>
> Nanchang CJ6A
>
> C-FEPN - Ottawa
>
>
>
>
>
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Flour Bombing |
Mark,
Just read your hilarious account of flour bombing to my family! They giggled, but
I was in tears! GOOD STUFF, SIR!! Made my night! And on a serious note, hats
off to you for the humble disclosure! Nice to see even the "big dogs" can laugh
at themselves. Life is too short to never settle for less than awesome.
Still smiling...
Rico
Sent from my iPad
> On Aug 19, 2016, at 5:57 PM, William Halverson <william@netpros.net> wrote:
>
>
> Well what did you expect?
>
> Zoomies have no sense of humor ...
>
> "NAVAIR" says it all.
>
> Fly NAVY, let the zoomies clean up the mess ...
>
>
>
>> On 8/19/2016 6:16 PM, Bitterlich, Mark G CIV NAVAIR, WD wrote:
>>
>> My first flour bombing contest was in a T-34B. Beach N4756 out of Cherry Point
Aero Club. Had a good friend and pilot in the back. We came zorching in
out of a dive and missed the target by a rather embarrassing amount. Next sack
was just as bad. So the decision was, if you can't be good at the bombing,
at least look good in the air.
>>
>>
>>
>> On the next pass I came in and went to the runway... mere feet about the concrete.
The rules gave a minimum RELEASE altitude, but didn't really specify a
hard deck. So, in we came.
>>
>>
>>
>> Somewhat short of the bulls-eye ring, I pulled way too much G for that old beast
and up into the vertical we went. Right before the kick for the hammerhead
my friend in back threw the bag straight out the top of the canopy. The hammerhead
was pretty close to zero airspeed. No arc, and lots of airframe shaking
is the give-away. As I reached the vertical downline, I swore I could see
that bag heading down in front of me, but it was probably my imagination.
>>
>>
>>
>> After landing, we were banned from further flour bombing. Seems people were
running for cover and the bag hit a nearby hangar roof, and the owner was none
too pleased.
>>
>>
>>
>> That said, most folks said it was the most awesome flour bombing attempt they
had ever seen. Missed by a mile, but got points for style.
>>
>>
>>
>> Of course this was 40 years ago. :-)
>>
>>
>>
>> Mark
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ________________________________
>> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com]
on behalf of cjpilot710 [cjpilot710@aol.com]
>> Sent: Friday, August 19, 2016 2:56 PM
>> To: yak-list@matronics.com
>> Subject: [Non-DoD Source] RE: Yak-List: Flour Bombing
>>
>> If we tell you how to do it then you become competition!
>>
>> However being a good sport what you want to do is line the airplane up (your
Center Line with the target) when you can see it, pick-up a point out on one
side of the airplane even with the target far enough out so that you can see it
when you go directly over the target . Toss the bag of flour out the back
or out the front. Do so as the reference point you picked even with the target,
is about a foot in front of the Leading Edge of the wing. This is good for
a 200-foot altitude at cruise speed.
>>
>>
>>
>> Sent via the Samsung GALAXY S 5, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone
>>
>>
>> -------- Original message --------
>> From: Philip Nicholson <pednicholson@gmail.com>
>> Date: 8/19/2016 9:36 AM (GMT-05:00)
>> To: Yak-List <Yak-List@matronics.com>
>> Subject: Yak-List: Flour Bombing
>>
>>
>> Hi guys,
>>
>> Theres a flour bombing competition at the local strip next weekend.
>>
>> Does anyone have any clever ideas on releasing the bag of flour? Surely theres
a better way than simply heaving it over the side onto the wing and having
it slide of. Secondly, does anyone have any tactics they wish to share? i.e.,
how many feet in front of the target to release whether to toss it or approach
level etc? Any formulas? :)
>>
>> Never done it before so any input welcome.
>>
>>
>>
>> Phil N.
>>
>> Nanchang CJ6A
>>
>> C-FEPN - Ottawa
>
>
>
>
>
Message 18
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n38139@yahoo.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=459672#459672
Message 19
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Contact info: n38139@yahoo.com
Thanks
Steve
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=459671#459671
Message 20
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| Subject: | Yak-52 Max Altitude |
Cannot speak to the 52, But I had my stock CJ6A at 18,650 ft. verified
by ATC going to Kalispell MT.
in 2010 on way to Osh. Was up at that altitude for about an hour.
Controls were light but
responsive. When the cloud deck below broke it was a great VNE decent to
the airport!!!!!!!!
Just to see how high we could go Hal Morley and I took his plane HANA
HOU CJ6A with M14P with
fuel injection over the Willamette valley of Or. to 22,500 ft. we were
still climbing when we started to
get some misfiring . We think it was due to the unpressurized mags
??????????? What a view!
Tom Elliott
CJ-6A NX63727
777 Quartz Ave
PMB 7004
Sandy Valley NV
89019
Cell 541-297-5497
N13472@AOL.COM
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Richard Goode
Sent: Thursday, August 18, 2016 2:07 AM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Yak-52 Max Altitude
One doesn't need oxygen for a short trip beyond 13,000 feet =93
pilots in the First World War were patrolling at 20,000 feet!
To revert to Yaks, a standard 52 is running out of breath at 13,000
feet, but the real reason is that the Russians don't extend the manuals
for an aircraft without oxygen beyond 4000 m. However, nothing to do
with the engine capability =93 with a light 18 T; 400 hp; MT prop
I was once still climbing (albeit very slowly) at 18,000 feet.
Richard Goode
Rhodds Farm
Lyonshall
Hereford
HR5 3LW
United Kingdom
Tel: +94 (0) 81 241 5137 (Sri Lanka)
Tel: +44 (0) 1544 340120
Fax: +44 (0) 1544 340129
www.russianaeros.com
I=99m currently in Sri Lanka but this Mail is working,and my local
phone is +94 779 132 160.
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mike Beresford
Sent: Thursday, August 18, 2016 1:19 PM
Subject: Yak-List: Yak-52 Max Altitude
Hi all
I've seen a maximum operating altitude for the Yak-52 quoted as 4,000 m
(13,000 ft). Obviously this requires pilot oxygen, but is the altitude
limitation due to operational procedures, or a technical limitation on
the aircraft?
Someone suggested to me that the fuel mixture compensation may run out
of travel above the altitude limit. Anyone have some insight into the
behaviour of the engine above 13,000 ft?
Blue skies
Mike
--
This message has been scanned for viruses and
dangerous content by <http://www.mailscanner.info/> MailScanner, and is
believed to be clean.
Message 21
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| Subject: | Flower bombing and more |
I have never posted anything that is non-yak but I think this story is worth
it.
Probably 25 years ago, at our flying club, a craze for flour-bombing began -
initially thrown out of the door of a spam-can, but the technicians became
more sophisticated and built a "bomb-rack" under the floor of one of the
club Cherokees, so you had, I recollect, four separate "bombs" under the
aircraft, and a separate release for each.
This led to the idea, since many people want their ashes spread over certain
areas after death whereby there was a dispensing funnel in the aircraft
going down through some sort of inspection hatch in the floor, the theory
being that you would get to the designated area and pour the ashes into the
funnel in the aircraft. The system was tried with sand and worked well.
For the first real customer, the whole family came to the airfield, and the
(adult) daughter, who had never flown before, asked if she could come for
the flight, to which the pilot and "bomb-aimer" agreed. They reached the
area, and began the ashes-releasing procedure, but of course the dramatic
weakness of the technology was that it failed to take into account that ash
is somewhat lighter than sand, and there is a noticeable high-pressure area
under the aircraft. Within seconds, the entire interior of the aircraft was
field with the deceased fellow's ashes, covering everyone, including the
daughter.
They returned to the airfield; landed and then taxied to the far end where
they attempted to clean the plain before they returned to the waiting
relatives. They apologised profusely to the daughter who didn't seem to mind
and said "no problem - he was a difficult old sod when he was alive!"
Richard Goode
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: Yak-52 Max Altitude |
Flew my YAK-55 across the Rockies in 2001 or 2 ... the bad forest fire
year ... had her up to 14.5k westbound ... no indication she was tired
or out of steam. I was surprised at the smell of smoke all the way up
to my alt ... a bad year for fires ...
Never saw a reason to go higher ...
Hal
On 8/19/2016 9:04 PM, Tom Elliott wrote:
>
> Cannot speak to the 52, But I had my stock CJ6A at 18,650 ft. verified
> by ATC going to Kalispell MT.
>
> in 2010 on way to Osh. Was up at that altitude for about an hour.
> Controls were light but
>
> responsive. When the cloud deck below broke it was a great VNE decent
> to the airport!!!!!!!!
>
> Just to see how high we could go Hal Morley and I took his plane HANA
> HOU CJ6A with M14P with
>
> fuel injection over the Willamette valley of Or. to 22,500 ft. we
> were still climbing when we started to
>
> get some misfiring . We think it was due to the unpressurized mags
> ??????????? What a view!
>
> Tom Elliott
> CJ-6A NX63727
> 777 Quartz Ave
> PMB 7004
> Sandy Valley NV
> 89019
> Cell 541-297-5497
>
> N13472@AOL.COM
>
> *From:*owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Richard Goode
> *Sent:* Thursday, August 18, 2016 2:07 AM
> *To:* yak-list@matronics.com
> *Subject:* RE: Yak-List: Yak-52 Max Altitude
>
> One doesn't need oxygen for a short trip beyond 13,000 feet pilots
> in the First World War were patrolling at 20,000 feet!
>
> To revert to Yaks, a standard 52 is running out of breath at 13,000
> feet, but the real reason is that the Russians don't extend the
> manuals for an aircraft without oxygen beyond 4000 m. However, nothing
> to do with the engine capability with a light 18 T; 400 hp; MT prop
> I was once still climbing (albeit very slowly) at 18,000 feet.
>
> Richard Goode
>
> Rhodds Farm
>
> Lyonshall
>
> Hereford
>
> HR5 3LW
>
> United Kingdom
>
> Tel: +94 (0) 81 241 5137 (Sri Lanka)
>
> Tel: +44 (0) 1544 340120
>
> Fax: +44 (0) 1544 340129
>
> www.russianaeros.com <http://www.russianaeros.com>
>
> Im currently in Sri Lanka but this Mail is working,and my local phone
> is +94 779 132 160.
>
> *From:*owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
> <mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com>
> [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Mike Beresford
> *Sent:* Thursday, August 18, 2016 1:19 PM
> *To:* yak-list@matronics.com <mailto:yak-list@matronics.com>
> *Subject:* Yak-List: Yak-52 Max Altitude
>
> Hi all
>
> I've seen a maximum operating altitude for the Yak-52 quoted as 4,000
> m (13,000 ft). Obviously this requires pilot oxygen, but is the
> altitude limitation due to operational procedures, or a technical
> limitation on the aircraft?
>
> Someone suggested to me that the fuel mixture compensation may run out
> of travel above the altitude limit. Anyone have some insight into the
> behaviour of the engine above 13,000 ft?
>
> Blue skies
>
> Mike
>
>
> --
> This message has been scanned for viruses and
> dangerous content by *MailScanner* <http://www.mailscanner.info/>, and is
> believed to be clean.
>
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: Flower bombing and more |
Nice story, thanks!!!!
From: <owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com> on behalf of Richard Goode
<richard.goode@russianaeros.com>
Subject: Yak-List: Flower bombing and more
Flower bombing and more
I have never posted anything that is non-yak but I think this story is wort
h
it.
Probably 25 years ago, at our flying club, a craze for flour-bombing began
=AD
initially thrown out of the door of a spam-can, but the technicians became
more sophisticated and built a "bomb-rack" under the floor of one of the
club Cherokees, so you had, I recollect, four separate "bombs" under the
aircraft, and a separate release for each.
This led to the idea, since many people want their ashes spread over certai
n
areas after death whereby there was a dispensing funnel in the aircraft
going down through some sort of inspection hatch in the floor, the theory
being that you would get to the designated area and pour the ashes into the
funnel in the aircraft. The system was tried with sand and worked well.
For the first real customer, the whole family came to the airfield, and the
(adult) daughter, who had never flown before, asked if she could come for
the flight, to which the pilot and "bomb-aimer" agreed. They reached the
area, and began the ashes-releasing procedure, but of course the dramatic
weakness of the technology was that it failed to take into account that ash
is somewhat lighter than sand, and there is a noticeable high-pressure area
under the aircraft. Within seconds, the entire interior of the aircraft was
field with the deceased fellow=B9s ashes, covering everyone, including the
daughter.
They returned to the airfield; landed and then taxied to the far end where
they attempted to clean the plain before they returned to the waiting
relatives. They apologised profusely to the daughter who didn't seem to min
d
and said "no problem =AD he was a difficult old sod when he was alive!"
Richard Goode
Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: Flour Bombing |
Nobody filmed this?
J.
On 20/08/16 00:16, "Bitterlich, Mark G CIV NAVAIR, WD"
<owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com on behalf of
mark.bitterlich@navy.mil> wrote:
><mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
>
>My first flour bombing contest was in a T-34B. Beach N4756 out of Cherry
>Point Aero Club. Had a good friend and pilot in the back. We came
>zorching in out of a dive and missed the target by a rather embarrassing
>amount. Next sack was just as bad. So the decision was, if you can't be
>good at the bombing, at least look good in the air.
>
>
>On the next pass I came in and went to the runway... mere feet about the
>concrete. The rules gave a minimum RELEASE altitude, but didn't really
>specify a hard deck. So, in we came.
>
>
>Somewhat short of the bulls-eye ring, I pulled way too much G for that
>old beast and up into the vertical we went. Right before the kick for the
>hammerhead my friend in back threw the bag straight out the top of the
>canopy. The hammerhead was pretty close to zero airspeed. No arc, and
>lots of airframe shaking is the give-away. As I reached the vertical
>downline, I swore I could see that bag heading down in front of me, but
>it was probably my imagination.
>
>
>After landing, we were banned from further flour bombing. Seems people
>were running for cover and the bag hit a nearby hangar roof, and the
>owner was none too pleased.
>
>
>That said, most folks said it was the most awesome flour bombing attempt
>they had ever seen. Missed by a mile, but got points for style.
>
>
>Of course this was 40 years ago. :-)
>
>
>Mark
>
>
>________________________________
>From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
>[owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] on behalf of cjpilot710
>[cjpilot710@aol.com]
>Sent: Friday, August 19, 2016 2:56 PM
>To: yak-list@matronics.com
>Subject: [Non-DoD Source] RE: Yak-List: Flour Bombing
>
>If we tell you how to do it then you become competition!
>
>However being a good sport what you want to do is line the airplane up
>(your Center Line with the target) when you can see it, pick-up a point
>out on one side of the airplane even with the target far enough out so
>that you can see it when you go directly over the target . Toss the bag
>of flour out the back or out the front. Do so as the reference point
>you picked even with the target, is about a foot in front of the Leading
>Edge of the wing. This is good for a 200-foot altitude at cruise speed.
>
>
>Sent via the Samsung GALAXY S 5, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone
>
>
>-------- Original message --------
>From: Philip Nicholson <pednicholson@gmail.com>
>Date: 8/19/2016 9:36 AM (GMT-05:00)
>To: Yak-List <Yak-List@matronics.com>
>Subject: Yak-List: Flour Bombing
>
>
>Hi guys,
>
>Theres a flour bombing competition at the local strip next weekend.
>
>Does anyone have any clever ideas on releasing the bag of flour? Surely
>theres a better way than simply heaving it over the side onto the wing
>and having it slide of. Secondly, does anyone have any tactics they wish
>to share? i.e., how many feet in front of the target to release whether
>to toss it or approach level etc? Any formulas? :)
>
>Never done it before so any input welcome.
>
>
>Phil N.
>
>Nanchang CJ6A
>
>C-FEPN - Ottawa
>
>
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