---------------------------------------------------------- Yak-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sat 08/20/16: 12 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 02:47 AM - Re: Flower bombing and more (Didier BLOUZARD) 2. 08:39 AM - Altitude (Craig Payne) 3. 08:48 AM - Re: Altitude (Jon Boede) 4. 11:56 AM - M14P engine problem (Royden Heays) 5. 12:15 PM - Re: M14P engine problem (George S. Coy) 6. 12:17 PM - Re: M14P engine problem (Nigel Willson) 7. 01:51 PM - Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: Yak-52 Max Altitude (Richard Kelley) 8. 02:47 PM - YAK parts for sale (danbooker) 9. 02:47 PM - YAK parts for sale (danbooker) 10. 06:01 PM - Re: YAK parts for sale (Sam Sax) 11. 11:16 PM - Re: YAK parts for sale (Frank Stelwagon) 12. 11:45 PM - Re: M14P engine problem (Richard Goode) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 02:47:59 AM PST US From: Didier BLOUZARD Subject: Re: Yak-List: Flower bombing and more Excellent Richard Thanks for sharing Didier Blouzard +33 6 5184 4802 > Le 20 ao=C3=BBt 2016 =C3- 04:40, Richard Goode a =C3=A9crit : > > I have never posted anything that is non-yak but I think this story is wor th it. > > Probably 25 years ago, at our flying club, a craze for flour-bombing began =93 initially thrown out of the door of a spam-can, but the technicia ns became more sophisticated and built a "bomb-rack" under the floor of one o f the club Cherokees, so you had, I recollect, four separate "bombs" under t he aircraft, and a separate release for each. > > This led to the idea, since many people want their ashes spread over certa in areas after death whereby there was a dispensing funnel in the aircraft g oing down through some sort of inspection hatch in the floor, the theory bei ng that you would get to the designated area and pour the ashes into the fun nel in the aircraft. The system was tried with sand and worked well. > > For the first real customer, the whole family came to the airfield, and th e (adult) daughter, who had never flown before, asked if she could come for t he flight, to which the pilot and "bomb-aimer" agreed. They reached the area , and began the ashes-releasing procedure, but of course the dramatic weakne ss of the technology was that it failed to take into account that ash is som ewhat lighter than sand, and there is a noticeable high-pressure area under t he aircraft. Within seconds, the entire interior of the aircraft was field w ith the deceased fellow=99s ashes, covering everyone, including the da ughter. > > They returned to the airfield; landed and then taxied to the far end where they attempted to clean the plain before they returned to the waiting relat ives. They apologised profusely to the daughter who didn't seem to mind and s aid "no problem =93 he was a difficult old sod when he was alive!" > > Richard Goode ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 08:39:36 AM PST US From: Craig Payne Subject: Yak-List: Altitude Some years back, Brian Lloyd took his stock CJ-6A to 20,000 ft. He was talking to center and planned the flight with them. He reported that his CJ was still climbing slightly but his back-seater was freezing. I believe the CJ Pilot Manual lists ceiling at 20K. Craig Payne ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 08:48:29 AM PST US From: Jon Boede Subject: Re: Yak-List: Altitude I climbed my stock CJ to 18,000 one hot summer day. Kept a close eye on my fingernails and made a reasonably quick descent once I got there, but it was still climbing pretty good at 18. I think 20 would have been no problem. Jon Sent from my iPhone > On Aug 20, 2016, at 10:44 AM, Craig Payne wrote: > > Some years back, Brian Lloyd took his stock CJ-6A to 20,000 ft. He was talking to center and planned the flight with them. He reported that his CJ was still climbing slightly but his back-seater was freezing. I believe the CJ Pilot Manual lists ceiling at 20K. > > Craig Payne ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 11:56:22 AM PST US From: "Royden Heays" Subject: Yak-List: M14P engine problem Symptom: Mag drop at run-up @ 70% RPM is 3% on Mag #1 (normal) and 5% fluctuating to 10% on Mag #2. Troubleshooting done to date; - run engine on Mag#2 (RH mag feeding rear plugs) up to normal cylinder head temp, 120 Deg C, shut down and measure temp of each cylinder. No 2 cylinder found to be cold at around 45 deg C, while all others are to approx. 100 deg C . Suspect bad spark plug - swap rear sparkplug plug No 2 cylinder with rear No 3. As above, run engine on Mag#2 up to normal cylinder head temp, shut down and measure temp of each cylinder. No 2 cylinder found to be cold at around 45 deg C, while all others are to approx. 100 deg C . Conclusion: it is not a spark plug problem. Suspect HT lead from mag to spark plug. - remove mag #2 cover, remove rear spark plug No 2, do a continuity check with multi--meter on HT lead from No 2 post in distributor cap to other end at plug connection. Circuit is continuous with .05 ohms at 200 ohm setting. Repeat on HT lead No 3. Same ohm reading result. Suspect HT lead insulation or connection of lead to distributor cap.. - remove small pointed screw at post no 2. Remove HT lead. Looks like screw didn't penetrate insulation. Trim off insulation. Reinstall HT lead and reinsert pointed screw. With No 2 plug out, reconnect HT lead. Use HV tester attached to post no 2 in distributor cap. Result: Good strong spark visible at Plug No 2. Repeat with circuit No 3. Again, a good strong spark. Conclude that HT connection to post No 2 is OK and the HT lead insulation is OK all the way to spark plug . Suspect Mag No 2. - inspect all posts in distributor cap. Some have deposits. Clean to bright metal. Look for cracks in cap. None found. Check rotor. Clean tip. Looks OK. Check points are opening properly at No 2. Looks OK. Reassemble everything. As above, run engine on Mag#2 up to normal cylinder head temp, shut down and measure temp of each cylinder. No 2 cylinder found to be cold at around 45 deg C, while all others are to approx. 100 deg C . Same result as above. Suspect that P lead or mag switch is wired in correctly whereby Mag switch set at #2 shorts out No 2 and leaves Mag No 1 on rear plugs. - run engine on Mag #1 up to normal cylinder head temp, shut down and measure temp of each cylinder. No 2 cylinder found to be warm at around 100 deg C, the same as all others. Conclusion. Mag switch and P leads are wired according to the M14P manual. It is No 2 mag circuit to No 2 cylinder that is the problem. Suspect we have somehow fixed the problem - do a full run-up with mag switch at 1+2. Mag drop at run-up @ 70% RPM is 3% on Mag #1 (normal) and 5% fluctuating to 10% on Mag #2. Absolutely no change. Nothing fixed. So where is the problem???? If it was the coil, why would it not affect all cylinders. The mags are low time (about 50 hours on them, but they are about 13 years. They sat for 11 years unused in a dry loft). We are stumped!! Does anyone have a diagnosis or cure. Royden Yak 55M ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 12:15:08 PM PST US From: "George S. Coy" Subject: RE: Yak-List: M14P engine problem I assume no arc tracking in the mag cap. If not you probably need to replace the #2 rear plug hi tension wire to rule it out completely. I have not had god luck with the high tension testers. Particularly with intermittent changes. I also assume you are running the original Russian ignition. George -----Original Message----- From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Royden Heays Sent: Saturday, August 20, 2016 2:56 PM Subject: Yak-List: M14P engine problem Symptom: Mag drop at run-up @ 70% RPM is 3% on Mag #1 (normal) and 5% fluctuating to 10% on Mag #2. Troubleshooting done to date; - run engine on Mag#2 (RH mag feeding rear plugs) up to normal cylinder head temp, 120 Deg C, shut down and measure temp of each cylinder. No 2 cylinder found to be cold at around 45 deg C, while all others are to approx. 100 deg C . Suspect bad spark plug - swap rear sparkplug plug No 2 cylinder with rear No 3. As above, run engine on Mag#2 up to normal cylinder head temp, shut down and measure temp of each cylinder. No 2 cylinder found to be cold at around 45 deg C, while all others are to approx. 100 deg C . Conclusion: it is not a spark plug problem. Suspect HT lead from mag to spark plug. - remove mag #2 cover, remove rear spark plug No 2, do a continuity check with multi--meter on HT lead from No 2 post in distributor cap to other end at plug connection. Circuit is continuous with .05 ohms at 200 ohm setting. Repeat on HT lead No 3. Same ohm reading result. Suspect HT lead insulation or connection of lead to distributor cap.. - remove small pointed screw at post no 2. Remove HT lead. Looks like screw didn't penetrate insulation. Trim off insulation. Reinstall HT lead and reinsert pointed screw. With No 2 plug out, reconnect HT lead. Use HV tester attached to post no 2 in distributor cap. Result: Good strong spark visible at Plug No 2. Repeat with circuit No 3. Again, a good strong spark. Conclude that HT connection to post No 2 is OK and the HT lead insulation is OK all the way to spark plug . Suspect Mag No 2. - inspect all posts in distributor cap. Some have deposits. Clean to bright metal. Look for cracks in cap. None found. Check rotor. Clean tip. Looks OK. Check points are opening properly at No 2. Looks OK. Reassemble everything. As above, run engine on Mag#2 up to normal cylinder head temp, shut down and measure temp of each cylinder. No 2 cylinder found to be cold at around 45 deg C, while all others are to approx. 100 deg C . Same result as above. Suspect that P lead or mag switch is wired in correctly whereby Mag switch set at #2 shorts out No 2 and leaves Mag No 1 on rear plugs. - run engine on Mag #1 up to normal cylinder head temp, shut down and measure temp of each cylinder. No 2 cylinder found to be warm at around 100 deg C, the same as all others. Conclusion. Mag switch and P leads are wired according to the M14P manual. It is No 2 mag circuit to No 2 cylinder that is the problem. Suspect we have somehow fixed the problem - do a full run-up with mag switch at 1+2. Mag drop at run-up @ 70% RPM is 3% on Mag #1 (normal) and 5% fluctuating to 10% on Mag #2. Absolutely no change. Nothing fixed. So where is the problem???? If it was the coil, why would it not affect all cylinders. The mags are low time (about 50 hours on them, but they are about 13 years. They sat for 11 years unused in a dry loft). We are stumped!! Does anyone have a diagnosis or cure. Royden Yak 55M ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 12:17:49 PM PST US From: Nigel Willson Subject: Re: Yak-List: M14P engine problem >From first hand experience, a coil breaking down causes all sorts of strange problems, including symptoms that appear to point to the opposite mag and even complete momentary engine stoppage even if only one coil is affected even with mags on both! Shelf Age is the key. Hours do not count. Your cheapest option and least time consuming might be try try new new coil(s)... Got mine from Gill at m14p.com. She offers core coil exchange. Just a thought.... Regards Nigel Willson Tel. 07809 116676 yakdisplay.com Sent from my iPad > On 20 Aug 2016, at 20:05, Royden Heays wrote: > > > Symptom: > > Mag drop at run-up @ 70% RPM is 3% on Mag #1 (normal) and 5% fluctuating > to 10% on Mag #2. > > Troubleshooting done to date; > - run engine on Mag#2 (RH mag feeding rear plugs) up to normal > cylinder head temp, 120 Deg C, shut down and measure temp of each cylinder. > No 2 cylinder found to be cold at around 45 deg C, while all others are to > approx. 100 deg C . Suspect bad spark plug > - swap rear sparkplug plug No 2 cylinder with rear No 3. As above, run > engine on Mag#2 up to normal cylinder head temp, shut down and measure temp > of each cylinder. No 2 cylinder found to be cold at around 45 deg C, while > all others are to approx. 100 deg C . Conclusion: it is not a spark plug > problem. Suspect HT lead from mag to spark plug. > - remove mag #2 cover, remove rear spark plug No 2, do a continuity > check with multi--meter on HT lead from No 2 post in distributor cap to > other end at plug connection. Circuit is continuous with .05 ohms at 200 ohm > setting. Repeat on HT lead No 3. Same ohm reading result. Suspect HT lead > insulation or connection of lead to distributor cap.. > - remove small pointed screw at post no 2. Remove HT lead. Looks like > screw didn't penetrate insulation. Trim off insulation. Reinstall HT lead > and reinsert pointed screw. With No 2 plug out, reconnect HT lead. Use HV > tester attached to post no 2 in distributor cap. Result: Good strong spark > visible at Plug No 2. Repeat with circuit No 3. Again, a good strong spark. > Conclude that HT connection to post No 2 is OK and the HT lead insulation is > OK all the way to spark plug . Suspect Mag No 2. > - inspect all posts in distributor cap. Some have deposits. Clean to > bright metal. Look for cracks in cap. None found. Check rotor. Clean tip. > Looks OK. Check points are opening properly at No 2. Looks OK. Reassemble > everything. As above, run engine on Mag#2 up to normal cylinder head temp, > shut down and measure temp of each cylinder. No 2 cylinder found to be cold > at around 45 deg C, while all others are to approx. 100 deg C . Same result > as above. Suspect that P lead or mag switch is wired in correctly whereby > Mag switch set at #2 shorts out No 2 and leaves Mag No 1 on rear plugs. > - run engine on Mag #1 up to normal cylinder head temp, shut down and > measure temp of each cylinder. No 2 cylinder found to be warm at around 100 > deg C, the same as all others. Conclusion. Mag switch and P leads are wired > according to the M14P manual. It is No 2 mag circuit to No 2 cylinder that > is the problem. Suspect we have somehow fixed the problem > - do a full run-up with mag switch at 1+2. Mag drop at run-up @ 70% > RPM is 3% on Mag #1 (normal) and 5% fluctuating to 10% on Mag #2. > Absolutely no change. Nothing fixed. > > So where is the problem???? > > If it was the coil, why would it not affect all cylinders. The mags are low > time (about 50 hours on them, but they are about 13 years. They sat for 11 > years unused in a dry loft). > > We are stumped!! > > Does anyone have a diagnosis or cure. > > Royden > Yak 55M > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 01:51:55 PM PST US From: Richard Kelley Subject: Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: Yak-List: Yak-52 Max Altitude Well let's talk about experience. The rules r there to help the less experienced. One should really watch what they say because somebody will say I can do that also. Not smart at all. Even if somebody has experience the chamber and knows their hypoxia symptoms it's dumb to push them. Please use oxygen!! Thug Sent from my iPhone > On Aug 19, 2016, at 10:45 AM, Bitterlich, Mark G CIV NAVAIR, WD wrote: > > > I've had my YAK-50 up to 17,500 (on oxygen by the way), just to see if I could do it. It wasn't climbing very fast, but still had way more to go. I stopped because I was too darn cold, and I was not IFR equipped. > > Of course I've never found a CJ that could keep up with me in any regard, so there is that. :-) Except for the cockpit heater of course. > > Mark > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jon Blake > Sent: Thursday, August 18, 2016 6:01 PM > To: yak-list@matronics.com > Subject: [Non-DoD Source] Re: Yak-List: Yak-52 Max Altitude > > Well, I've had my stock, 285HP CJ to 14,501 feet and she was willing to go even higher, but I didn't want to embarrass the YAK52 I was flying wing on... JB > > Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE DROID > > > Dave Jester wrote: > > > I have been to 14,500 feet in my 52TD Termikas conversion. Sluggish on the controls that high. Or maybe I was suffering from hypoxia and I was the one sluggish! It was neat when a regional jet passed me 500 feet below. :) > > > On Aug 18, 2016, at 2:48 AM, Mike Beresford wrote: > > > Hi all > > I've seen a maximum operating altitude for the Yak-52 quoted as 4,000 m (13,000 ft). Obviously this requires pilot oxygen, but is the altitude limitation due to operational procedures, or a technical limitation on the aircraft? > > Someone suggested to me that the fuel mixture compensation may run out of travel above the altitude limit. Anyone have some insight into the behaviour of the engine above 13,000 ft? > > Blue skies > Mike > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 02:47:16 PM PST US Subject: Yak-List: YAK parts for sale From: "danbooker" Just put Yak gyros, attitude indicator, heading indicators, and g-meters on eBay for sale. Go buy them! -------- Daniel Booker "Stealth-Eagle Aviation" 2312457798 danbooker@hotmail.com Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=459696#459696 ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 02:47:29 PM PST US Subject: Yak-List: YAK parts for sale From: "danbooker" Just put Yak gyros, attitude indicator, heading indicators, and g-meters on eBay for sale. Go buy them! -------- Daniel Booker "Stealth-Eagle Aviation" 2312457798 danbooker@hotmail.com Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=459697#459697 ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 06:01:55 PM PST US From: "Sam Sax" Subject: RE: Yak-List: YAK parts for sale Sir, YES Sir! -----Original Message----- From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of danbooker Sent: Saturday, August 20, 2016 5:26 PM Subject: Yak-List: YAK parts for sale Just put Yak gyros, attitude indicator, heading indicators, and g-meters on eBay for sale. Go buy them! -------- Daniel Booker "Stealth-Eagle Aviation" 2312457798 danbooker@hotmail.com Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=459697#459697 ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 11:16:58 PM PST US From: "Frank Stelwagon" Subject: Re: Yak-List: YAK parts for sale Once would have been enough! ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sam Sax" Sent: Saturday, August 20, 2016 6:01 PM Subject: RE: Yak-List: YAK parts for sale > > Sir, YES Sir! > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of danbooker > Sent: Saturday, August 20, 2016 5:26 PM > To: yak-list@matronics.com > Subject: Yak-List: YAK parts for sale > > > Just put Yak gyros, attitude indicator, heading indicators, and g-meters > on > eBay for sale. Go buy them! > > -------- > Daniel Booker > "Stealth-Eagle Aviation" > 2312457798 > danbooker@hotmail.com > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=459697#459697 > > > ----- > No virus found in this message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 11:45:22 PM PST US From: "Richard Goode" Subject: RE: Yak-List: M14P engine problem I would be sure that it is a coil problem. These are terribly common, and after our traditional Russian sources of coils has dried up, we were forced to spend a lot on researching new production in Hungary which is now working very well. Richard Goode -----Original Message----- From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Royden Heays Sent: 20 August 2016 19:56 Subject: Yak-List: M14P engine problem Symptom: Mag drop at run-up @ 70% RPM is 3% on Mag #1 (normal) and 5% fluctuating to 10% on Mag #2. Troubleshooting done to date; - run engine on Mag#2 (RH mag feeding rear plugs) up to normal cylinder head temp, 120 Deg C, shut down and measure temp of each cylinder. No 2 cylinder found to be cold at around 45 deg C, while all others are to approx. 100 deg C . Suspect bad spark plug - swap rear sparkplug plug No 2 cylinder with rear No 3. As above, run engine on Mag#2 up to normal cylinder head temp, shut down and measure temp of each cylinder. No 2 cylinder found to be cold at around 45 deg C, while all others are to approx. 100 deg C . Conclusion: it is not a spark plug problem. Suspect HT lead from mag to spark plug. - remove mag #2 cover, remove rear spark plug No 2, do a continuity check with multi--meter on HT lead from No 2 post in distributor cap to other end at plug connection. Circuit is continuous with .05 ohms at 200 ohm setting. Repeat on HT lead No 3. Same ohm reading result. Suspect HT lead insulation or connection of lead to distributor cap.. - remove small pointed screw at post no 2. Remove HT lead. Looks like screw didn't penetrate insulation. Trim off insulation. Reinstall HT lead and reinsert pointed screw. With No 2 plug out, reconnect HT lead. Use HV tester attached to post no 2 in distributor cap. Result: Good strong spark visible at Plug No 2. Repeat with circuit No 3. Again, a good strong spark. Conclude that HT connection to post No 2 is OK and the HT lead insulation is OK all the way to spark plug . Suspect Mag No 2. - inspect all posts in distributor cap. Some have deposits. Clean to bright metal. Look for cracks in cap. None found. Check rotor. Clean tip. Looks OK. Check points are opening properly at No 2. Looks OK. Reassemble everything. As above, run engine on Mag#2 up to normal cylinder head temp, shut down and measure temp of each cylinder. No 2 cylinder found to be cold at around 45 deg C, while all others are to approx. 100 deg C . Same result as above. Suspect that P lead or mag switch is wired in correctly whereby Mag switch set at #2 shorts out No 2 and leaves Mag No 1 on rear plugs. - run engine on Mag #1 up to normal cylinder head temp, shut down and measure temp of each cylinder. No 2 cylinder found to be warm at around 100 deg C, the same as all others. Conclusion. Mag switch and P leads are wired according to the M14P manual. It is No 2 mag circuit to No 2 cylinder that is the problem. Suspect we have somehow fixed the problem - do a full run-up with mag switch at 1+2. Mag drop at run-up @ 70% RPM is 3% on Mag #1 (normal) and 5% fluctuating to 10% on Mag #2. Absolutely no change. Nothing fixed. So where is the problem???? If it was the coil, why would it not affect all cylinders. The mags are low time (about 50 hours on them, but they are about 13 years. They sat for 11 years unused in a dry loft). We are stumped!! Does anyone have a diagnosis or cure. Royden Yak 55M -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message yak-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Yak-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/yak-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/yak-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.