Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 01:12 AM - Re: Re: M-14P TBO (Richard Goode)
2. 01:51 AM - Housai 400hp (SVA402)
3. 03:04 AM - Re: Housai 400hp (Richard Hess)
4. 05:14 AM - Re: Housai 400hp (A. Dennis Savarese)
5. 01:46 PM - Re: M-14P TBO (Looigi)
6. 03:46 PM - Re: Re: M-14P TBO (Richard Hess)
Message 1
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Some corrections:
Those hours the TBO are quite specifically from OKBM - the Vedeneyev design
bureau. But also remember the background in that Russia was operating in a
"military" environment" and they were trying to employ 300 million people,
and it didn't really matter what they did or how long it took.
I think you're wrong about the quality of the overhaul. Original overhauls
in Soviet times were done to an extremely high standard, although, as we
have found out, the engines were built to very loose tolerances, I supposed
to help engineers who were not that skilled. But, once the Soviet Union
started collapsing in the early 90s, the quality of "overhauls" went down
dramatically, and in some cases was little more than a coat of paint. But
this was not official policy - simply a breakdown of the systems.
It is true that an engine which is carefully looked after; gently warmed up
and cooled; run on good quality Western oils and not subjected to aerobatics
can go to 2000 hours. But I can say that an engine in a hard-flown
competition Sukhoi, running at 104%; hovering with little airflow through
the cylinders; having rapid changes from full throttle to idle will probably
not last much more than 200 hours!
Richard Goode Aerobatics
Rhodds Farm
Lyonshall
Hereford
HR5 3LW
Tel: +44 (0) 1544 340120
Fax: +44 (0) 1544 340129
www.russianaeros.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Looigi
Sent: 12 March 2017 21:23
Subject: Yak-List: Re: M-14P TBO
Thanks to all the guys and girls who have posted and messaged me.
Here is what I have learned. The TBO on the M-14P is..... I still don't
know!
Does anyone have any data from Vedeneyev themselves?
I have not been able to find an official manufacturers TBO. DOSAF did their
first overhaul at 750 hours, then 500 hour intervals and retired the engine
at 2250 hours. As they were essentially the only operator of these aircraft
it seems these times have been accepted as though it was from Vedeneyev
themselves. All the overhaul facilities for the M-14P I contacted have
adopted these figures as well. Remember that they worked only for DOSAF,
and of course it is to their commercial advantage to have these engines
overhauled more often.
Their definition of "Overhaul" differs from ours too. Again, I have not
been able to find any official data, but their overhauls seem to align more
with a "Survey" of an engine that is common in the marine industry.
Essentially a bulk strip, inspect, replace the stuffed bits and stick it
back together. In the military we used to call this an IRAN - Inspect And
Replace As Necessary.
The lubricants we use are generally better than what these engines used to
run on. The dude at Termikas told me that the Wilga engine TBO is increased
from 800 to 1000 hours if it is run on Aeroshell 100. Given that Jill from
M-14P said she has seen well looked after engines with 2200 hours TSO on
them seems to reinforce our oil quality and just how robust these engines
are too. Again, no official data!
Wikipedia reigns supreme!
Chris
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=467211#467211
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Message 2
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Anyone seen a CJ with the 400hp Housai? Seems pretty rare. Are there many around?
Parts available? Pros/Cons vs the M14 besides parts availability? Would it
be easy to convert a CJ with that engine to an M14?
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=467227#467227
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| Subject: | Re: Housai 400hp |
I had one. Strong, smooth engine that only lasted 750 hours. Same amount to convert
to an M-14 because both Housai engines have the same external configuration.
I converted for future maintenance support ease
Richard Hess
C 404-964-4885
> On Mar 13, 2017, at 4:49 AM, SVA402 <danielsallee12@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> Anyone seen a CJ with the 400hp Housai? Seems pretty rare. Are there many around?
Parts available? Pros/Cons vs the M14 besides parts availability? Would it
be easy to convert a CJ with that engine to an M14?
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=467227#467227
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Housai 400hp |
Yes. The only one I ever saw was the one Rich Hess had on his new CJ
about 10 years ago. I think it lasted about 600 hours. When it died
about 2 years or so ago, he installed an overhauled M14 on the CJ.
Dennis
A. Dennis Savarese
334-546-8182 (mobile)
www.yak-52.com
Skype - Yakguy1
On 3/13/2017 4:49 AM, SVA402 wrote:
>
> Anyone seen a CJ with the 400hp Housai? Seems pretty rare. Are there many around?
Parts available? Pros/Cons vs the M14 besides parts availability? Would it
be easy to convert a CJ with that engine to an M14?
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=467227#467227
>
>
Message 5
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Thanks for your post Richard.
Do you have any of the OKBM data you refer?
I wasn't questioning the quality, merely the scope of the work. I had the privilege
of going to the Shakhty overhaul facility a bit over a year ago and I had
a good look at their operation. I have been a Licenced Aircraft Engineer for
many years now and I have worked at many places all over the world. I can
honestly say that the Shakhty plant is old, and not very impressive looking, but
it was clean, tidy and as far as the work they turn out and the skill of the
guys who work there goes, they would hold their own with anything I have seen
elsewhere else.
And yes, I agree totally with your comments about engine life. I have been told
that the air race guys never even make three digits with their engine lives!.
We have set overhaul periods for components here in NZ like anywhere, but for non-commercial
operations we are allowed to run our engines on condition until
it is out of limits (leak downs, oil consumption, SOAP etc), even then a cylinder
change can sort most of that. The reality is that all engines are on condition
all of the time. If a new engine starts making metal, or shows other signs
of distress you deal with it the same as you would an old one.
The issue I am having is that our CAA have put these planes into a Restricted Limited
category which means they treat them as a certified aircraft built to a
standard, they just don't know what the standard is. Because manufacturers data
is scarce or unobtainable, Chinese whispers (sorry CJ6 guys) and Facebook
seem to be being held up as gospel. Add into the mix the difference in manufacturing
and regulation philosophies, the breakup of the Soviet Union and the language
barrier and my frustration levels rise.
What I think I am hearing is that I am just going to have to suck it up, accept
that there isn't a right answer and make the most of it.
Now, where are my OCD pills....?
Chris
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=467258#467258
Message 6
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I'll see what data I have but it's limited mostly to inspections and power chart
Richard Hess
C 404-964-4885
> On Mar 13, 2017, at 4:44 PM, Looigi <cdoburton@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> Thanks for your post Richard.
>
> Do you have any of the OKBM data you refer?
>
> I wasn't questioning the quality, merely the scope of the work. I had the privilege
of going to the Shakhty overhaul facility a bit over a year ago and I
had a good look at their operation. I have been a Licenced Aircraft Engineer
for many years now and I have worked at many places all over the world. I can
honestly say that the Shakhty plant is old, and not very impressive looking,
but it was clean, tidy and as far as the work they turn out and the skill of
the guys who work there goes, they would hold their own with anything I have seen
elsewhere else.
>
> And yes, I agree totally with your comments about engine life. I have been told
that the air race guys never even make three digits with their engine lives!.
>
> We have set overhaul periods for components here in NZ like anywhere, but for
non-commercial operations we are allowed to run our engines on condition until
it is out of limits (leak downs, oil consumption, SOAP etc), even then a cylinder
change can sort most of that. The reality is that all engines are on condition
all of the time. If a new engine starts making metal, or shows other
signs of distress you deal with it the same as you would an old one.
>
> The issue I am having is that our CAA have put these planes into a Restricted
Limited category which means they treat them as a certified aircraft built to
a standard, they just don't know what the standard is. Because manufacturers
data is scarce or unobtainable, Chinese whispers (sorry CJ6 guys) and Facebook
seem to be being held up as gospel. Add into the mix the difference in manufacturing
and regulation philosophies, the breakup of the Soviet Union and the
language barrier and my frustration levels rise.
>
> What I think I am hearing is that I am just going to have to suck it up, accept
that there isn't a right answer and make the most of it.
>
> Now, where are my OCD pills....?
>
> Chris
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=467258#467258
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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