Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 03:35 AM - Re: Housai 400hp (JL2A)
2. 03:48 AM - unlocks not always locking... (JL2A)
3. 03:54 AM - Re: Re: Housai 400hp (Richard Hess)
4. 04:15 AM - Re: Re: Housai 400hp (A. Dennis Savarese)
5. 04:17 AM - Re: unlocks not always locking... (A. Dennis Savarese)
6. 04:20 AM - Re: Re: Housai 400hp (Richard Goode)
7. 04:26 AM - Re: unlocks not always locking... (jlpartington@reagan.com)
8. 05:56 AM - Re: unlocks not always locking... (James Goolsby)
9. 08:24 AM - Re: CJ-6 MLG Jacks (altman51)
10. 08:40 AM - Re: unlocks not always locking... (doug sapp)
11. 10:22 AM - Re: unlocks not always locking... (James Goolsby)
12. 12:02 PM - Re: unlocks not always locking... (Walter Lannon)
13. 12:53 PM - Re: Yak-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 03/14/17 (fred schlafly)
14. 01:34 PM - Re: Yak-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 03/14/17 (fred schlafly)
15. 01:34 PM - Re: Yak-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 03/14/17 (fred schlafly)
16. 02:10 PM - Re: unlocks not always locking... (JL2A)
17. 02:22 PM - Re: unlocks not always locking... (JL2A)
18. 02:36 PM - Re: Re: unlocks not always locking... (Ernest Martinez)
19. 07:56 PM - Re: unlocks not always locking... (JL2A)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Housai 400hp |
what happened to it?
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=467325#467325
Message 2
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| Subject: | unlocks not always locking... |
Calling the CJ brains trust! Strange problem has just manifested itself, CJ6:
Gear handle in DOWN on the ground. Get airborne, gear handle to UP
Get three red lights, gear handle NEUTRAL.
They all fall down. Sometimes just one, sometimes two.
To fix, I selected handle NEUTRAL while gear is down and locked, then selected
DOWN for 3 seconds, then UP. This seemed to give the gear a little more momentum
and they get up & locked no problems
Can't replicate it every time, it only sometimes does it... the unlocks don't seem
to lock when this happens, even if flying with gear handle in the UP position,
anything over 1.5 G pulls the gear out enough to extinguish the 'gear up'
red lights, meaning they are being held by actuators only.
Needless to say no aerobatics until they are locked...
Have had engineer check unlocks, hook position/angle etc. No audible air leaks.
My only explanation is that when selecting UP, a bit of air is leaking into the
DOWN lines at the same time and activating the unlock actuators a little, preventing
the unlocks from locking...
Strange one, any other ideas? Would this be possible? I don't have a great grasp
of where all the check valves etc are located and for what reason in the gear
system.
Anatole
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=467326#467326
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Housai 400hp |
I believe the block is still at the shop. I mounted one of the prop blades as a
conversation piece for my home office.
Richard Hess
President
International Jets, Inc.
Cell 404-964-4885
-----Original Message-----
From: JL2A <info@flyingwarbirds.com.au>
Sent: Wed, Mar 15, 2017 6:35 am
Subject: Yak-List: Re: Housai 400hp
what happened to it?
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=467325#467325
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Housai 400hp |
Don't really know.=C2- Maybe Hess is reading the Yak list and he'll comme
nt.I believe it was the first and only 400 HP Huosai engine in the US thoug
h.=C2-
Dennis
From: JL2A <info@flyingwarbirds.com.au>
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, March 15, 2017 6:32 AM
Subject: Yak-List: Re: Housai 400hp
what happened to it?
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=467325#467325
S -
WIKI -
-
=C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: unlocks not always locking... |
Why do you put the gear handle in neutral in the first place?Do you know wh
at happens when you put the gear selector in neutral?
Dennis
From: JL2A <info@flyingwarbirds.com.au>
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, March 15, 2017 6:46 AM
Subject: Yak-List: unlocks not always locking...
Calling the CJ brains trust! Strange problem has just manifested itself, CJ
6:
Gear handle in DOWN on the ground. Get airborne, gear handle to UP
Get three red lights, gear handle NEUTRAL.
They all fall down. Sometimes just one, sometimes two.
To fix, I selected handle NEUTRAL while gear is down and locked, then selec
ted DOWN for 3 seconds, then UP. This seemed to give the gear a little more
momentum and they get up & locked no problems
Can't replicate it every time, it only sometimes does it... the unlocks don
't seem to lock when this happens, even if flying with gear handle in the U
P position, anything over 1.5 G pulls the gear out enough to extinguish the
'gear up' red lights, meaning they are being held by actuators only.
Needless to say no aerobatics until they are locked...
Have had engineer check unlocks, hook position/angle etc. No audible air le
aks.
My only explanation is that when selecting UP, a bit of air is leaking into
the DOWN lines at the same time and activating the unlock actuators a litt
le, preventing the unlocks from locking...
Strange one, any other ideas? Would this be possible? I don't have a great
grasp of where all the check valves etc are located and for what reason in
the gear system.
Anatole
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=467326#467326
S -
WIKI -
-
=C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Housai 400hp |
Totally for my interest, does anyone know what modifications were done
to increase the power to 400 hp? Did they have any Russian involvement,
or was it a totally Chinese project? When flying with the engine was the
extra power clearly there? I assume all the logbooks et cetera also
indicated 400 hp?
Only my curiosity here, having been involved quite extensively with the
development of the 400 hp M 14 PF engine from Voronezh, although many
years ago.
Richard Goode Aerobatics
Rhodds Farm
Lyonshall
Hereford
HR5 3LW
Tel: +44 (0) 1544 340120
Fax: +44 (0) 1544 340129
www.russianaeros.com
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Richard Hess
Sent: 15 March 2017 10:51
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: Housai 400hp
I believe the block is still at the shop. I mounted one of the prop
blades as a conversation piece for my home office.
Richard Hess
President
International Jets, Inc.
Cell 404-964-4885
-----Original Message-----
From: JL2A <info@flyingwarbirds.com.au>
Sent: Wed, Mar 15, 2017 6:35 am
Subject: Yak-List: Re: Housai 400hp
what happened to it?
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=467325#467325
--
This message has been scanned for viruses and
dangerous content by <http://www.mailscanner.info/> MailScanner, and is
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Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: unlocks not always locking... |
=0Asounds like all the air is not venting out of the down side=0A-----Origi
nal Message-----=0AFrom: "A. Dennis Savarese" <dsavarese0812@bellsouth.net>
=0ASent: Wednesday, 15 March, 2017 6:15am=0ATo: "yak-list@matronics.com" <y
ak-list@matronics.com>=0ASubject: Re: Yak-List: unlocks not always locking.
..=0A=0A=0A=0A=0AWhy do you put the gear handle in neutral in the first pla
ce?=0ADo you know what happens when you put the gear selector in neutral?
=0ADennis=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0AFrom: JL2A <info@flyingwarbirds.com.au>=0ATo:
yak-list@matronics.com =0ASent: Wednesday, March 15, 2017 6:46 AM=0ASubjec
t: Yak-List: unlocks not always locking...=0A=0A=0A--> Yak-List message pos
ted by: "JL2A" <[ info@flyingwarbirds.com.au ]( mailto:info@flyingwarbirds.
com.au )>=0A=0ACalling the CJ brains trust! Strange problem has just manife
sted itself, CJ6:=0A=0AGear handle in DOWN on the ground. Get airborne, gea
r handle to UP=0A=0AGet three red lights, gear handle NEUTRAL.=0A=0AThey al
l fall down. Sometimes just one, sometimes two.=0A=0ATo fix, I selected han
dle NEUTRAL while gear is down and locked, then selected DOWN for 3 seconds
, then UP. This seemed to give the gear a little more momentum and they get
up & locked no problems=0A=0ACan't replicate it every time, it only someti
mes does it... the unlocks don't seem to lock when this happens, even if fl
ying with gear handle in the UP position, anything over 1.5 G pulls the gea
r out enough to extinguish the 'gear up' red lights, meaning they are being
held by actuators only.=0A=0ANeedless to say no aerobatics until they are
locked...=0A=0AHave had engineer check unlocks, hook position/angle etc. No
audible air leaks.=0A=0AMy only explanation is that when selecting UP, a b
it of air is leaking into the DOWN lines at the same time and activating th
e unlock actuators a little, preventing the unlocks from locking... =0A=0AS
trange one, any other ideas? Would this be possible? I don't have a great g
rasp of where all the check valves etc are located and for what reason in t
he gear system.=0A=0AAnatole=0A=0A=0A=0A=0ARead this topic online here:=0A
=0A[ http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.pcs.com/Navigator?Yak-List" targ
et="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigsp; - MATRONICS WEB
FORUMS -=0A= --> ]( http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=4673
26#467326 )[ http://www.matronic==============
=======0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A ]( http://forums.matronics.com/ )=0A
=0A=0A=0A
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: unlocks not always locking... |
Some CJ6s have no up locks at all. For 22 years I've operated mine without t
hem because it came from China like that. One simply keeps the gear handle "
up" the entire flight.
If you analyze it, it simplifies the system which means less places to leak a
ir. Also if you lose air pressure for whatever reason, you gear will start t
o fall down - which is what you want to start happening anyway. You then si
mply lock it place with emergency air.
Leaving the gear handle up all the time does not hurt anything. Some folks t
hink this wears out the seals, but seals only get wear while moving, not hol
ding the pressure. Some think it also causes ware on the compressor but the
compressor is always "working" and system pressure is regulated by the regu
lator anyway.
Your up locks mostly likely need cleaning. Very simple to and they are not c
omplicated at all.
Jim "Pappy" Goolsby
Sent from my iPad from some where on The 3rd rock from the Sun.
> On Mar 15, 2017, at 06:24, jlpartington@reagan.com wrote:
>
> sounds like all the air is not venting out of the down side
> -----Original Message-----
> From: "A. Dennis Savarese" <dsavarese0812@bellsouth.net>
> Sent: Wednesday, 15 March, 2017 6:15am
> To: "yak-list@matronics.com" <yak-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Re: Yak-List: unlocks not always locking...
>
> Why do you put the gear handle in neutral in the first place?
> Do you know what happens when you put the gear selector in neutral?
> Dennis
>
>
> From: JL2A <info@flyingwarbirds.com.au>
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Sent: Wednesday, March 15, 2017 6:46 AM
> Subject: Yak-List: unlocks not always locking...
>
>
> Calling the CJ brains trust! Strange problem has just manifested itself, C
J6:
>
> Gear handle in DOWN on the ground. Get airborne, gear handle to UP
>
> Get three red lights, gear handle NEUTRAL.
>
> They all fall down. Sometimes just one, sometimes two.
>
> To fix, I selected handle NEUTRAL while gear is down and locked, then sele
cted DOWN for 3 seconds, then UP. This seemed to give the gear a little more
momentum and they get up & locked no problems
>
> Can't replicate it every time, it only sometimes does it... the unlocks do
n't seem to lock when this happens, even if flying with gear handle in the U
P position, anything over 1.5 G pulls the gear out enough to extinguish the '
gear up' red lights, meaning they are being held by actuators only.
>
> Needless to say no aerobatics until they are locked...
>
> Have had engineer check unlocks, hook position/angle etc. No audible air l
eaks.
>
> My only explanation is that when selecting UP, a bit of air is leaking int
o the DOWN lines at the same time and activating the unlock actuators a litt
le, preventing the unlocks from locking...
>
> Strange one, any other ideas? Would this be possible? I don't have a great
grasp of where all the check valves etc are located and for what reason in t
he gear system.
>
> Anatole
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.pcs.com/Navigator?Yak-List" target=
"_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigsp; - MATRONICS WEB FORUM
S -
> = --> http://www.matronic================
===
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: CJ-6 MLG Jacks |
I talked to Doug Sapp about your jacks. I want them. He said if you had questions.
Call him. I am in Savannah, GA would need you to ship them to me
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=467336#467336
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: unlocks not always locking... |
I agree with Dennis, up is gear up-- down is gear down, leave it alone, do
not return it to neutral in flight.
Do you have up locks?? A few CJs did not, they relied on air pressure to
hold the gear up.
Doug
On Wed, Mar 15, 2017 at 4:15 AM, A. Dennis Savarese <
dsavarese0812@bellsouth.net> wrote:
> Why do you put the gear handle in neutral in the first place?
> Do you know what happens when you put the gear selector in neutral?
> Dennis
>
>
> ------------------------------
> *From:* JL2A <info@flyingwarbirds.com.au>
> *To:* yak-list@matronics.com
> *Sent:* Wednesday, March 15, 2017 6:46 AM
> *Subject:* Yak-List: unlocks not always locking...
>
>
> Calling the CJ brains trust! Strange problem has just manifested itself,
> CJ6:
>
> Gear handle in DOWN on the ground. Get airborne, gear handle to UP
>
> Get three red lights, gear handle NEUTRAL.
>
> They all fall down. Sometimes just one, sometimes two.
>
> To fix, I selected handle NEUTRAL while gear is down and locked, then
> selected DOWN for 3 seconds, then UP. This seemed to give the gear a little
> more momentum and they get up & locked no problems
>
> Can't replicate it every time, it only sometimes does it... the unlocks
> don't seem to lock when this happens, even if flying with gear handle in
> the UP position, anything over 1.5 G pulls the gear out enough to
> extinguish the 'gear up' red lights, meaning they are being held by
> actuators only.
>
> Needless to say no aerobatics until they are locked...
>
> Have had engineer check unlocks, hook position/angle etc. No audible air
> leaks.
>
> My only explanation is that when selecting UP, a bit of air is leaking
> into the DOWN lines at the same time and activating the unlock actuators a
> little, preventing the unlocks from locking...
>
> Strange one, any other ideas? Would this be possible? I don't have a great
> grasp of where all the check valves etc are located and for what reason in
> the gear system.
>
> Anatole
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.pcs.com/Navigator?Yak-List"
> target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigsp; - MATRONICS
> WEB FORUMS -
> = --> <http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=467326#467326>
> http://www.matronic===================
>
>
> <http://forums.matronics.com/>
>
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: unlocks not always locking... |
PS. Also the System is not building enough pressure. the pressure needs t
o be increased. Do this at the regulator.
Sent from my iPad from some where on The 3rd rock from the Sun.
> On Mar 15, 2017, at 07:53, James Goolsby <cjpilot710@aol.com> wrote:
>
> Some CJ6s have no up locks at all. For 22 years I've operated mine withou
t them because it came from China like that. One simply keeps the gear hand
le "up" the entire flight.
>
> If you analyze it, it simplifies the system which means less places to lea
k air. Also if you lose air pressure for whatever reason, you gear will sta
rt to fall down - which is what you want to start happening anyway. You the
n simply lock it place with emergency air.
>
> Leaving the gear handle up all the time does not hurt anything. Some folk
s think this wears out the seals, but seals only get wear while moving, not h
olding the pressure. Some think it also causes ware on the compressor but t
he compressor is always "working" and system pressure is regulated by the re
gulator anyway.
>
> Your up locks mostly likely need cleaning. Very simple to and they are no
t complicated at all.
>
> Jim "Pappy" Goolsby
>
> Sent from my iPad from some where on The 3rd rock from the Sun.
>
>> On Mar 15, 2017, at 06:24, jlpartington@reagan.com wrote:
>>
>> sounds like all the air is not venting out of the down side
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: "A. Dennis Savarese" <dsavarese0812@bellsouth.net>
>> Sent: Wednesday, 15 March, 2017 6:15am
>> To: "yak-list@matronics.com" <yak-list@matronics.com>
>> Subject: Re: Yak-List: unlocks not always locking...
>>
>> Why do you put the gear handle in neutral in the first place?
>> Do you know what happens when you put the gear selector in neutral?
>> Dennis
>>
>>
>> From: JL2A <info@flyingwarbirds.com.au>
>> To: yak-list@matronics.com
>> Sent: Wednesday, March 15, 2017 6:46 AM
>> Subject: Yak-List: unlocks not always locking...
>>
>>
>> Calling the CJ brains trust! Strange problem has just manifested itself, C
J6:
>>
>> Gear handle in DOWN on the ground. Get airborne, gear handle to UP
>>
>> Get three red lights, gear handle NEUTRAL.
>>
>> They all fall down. Sometimes just one, sometimes two.
>>
>> To fix, I selected handle NEUTRAL while gear is down and locked, then sel
ected DOWN for 3 seconds, then UP. This seemed to give the gear a little mor
e momentum and they get up & locked no problems
>>
>> Can't replicate it every time, it only sometimes does it... the unlocks d
on't seem to lock when this happens, even if flying with gear handle in the U
P position, anything over 1.5 G pulls the gear out enough to extinguish the '
gear up' red lights, meaning they are being held by actuators only.
>>
>> Needless to say no aerobatics until they are locked...
>>
>> Have had engineer check unlocks, hook position/angle etc. No audible air l
eaks.
>>
>> My only explanation is that when selecting UP, a bit of air is leaking in
to the DOWN lines at the same time and activating the unlock actuators a lit
tle, preventing the unlocks from locking...
>>
>> Strange one, any other ideas? Would this be possible? I don't have a grea
t grasp of where all the check valves etc are located and for what reason in
the gear system.
>>
>> Anatole
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.pcs.com/Navigator?Yak-List" target=
"_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigsp; - MATRONICS WEB FORUM
S -
>> = --> http://www.matronic===============
====
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: unlocks not always locking... |
Oh yes! Gear uplocks; a bit of history here.
Even though the manual does specify the neutral position after gear up I ag
ree with other posters here and always leave it in the up position. There
is no logical reason to do otherwise.
All four of the CJ=99s I imported in 1993 were, like Pappy=99s,
without uplocks. They were early production (1965 to 1969) but clearly ca
me from the factory with
uplocks installed and were subsequently removed in squadron service. Ther
e had to be a reason for that action even though it did not result in delet
ion of uplocks in later production.
The CJ uplock design has a built-in Achilles Heel. If any one of the three
fails to unlock you will be doing a gear up landing (hopefully you will pu
t the other two back up first!). At gear down selection that action ports
air from the Normal (or Emergency) side of each uplock emergency valve to
each uplock release valve and to the gear down side of the actuator. If th
e release valve fails to operate that gear will remain up regardless of the
down pressure in the actuator.
Here I digress a bit! The early P51 used the same basic Bendix designed u
ndercarriage as the Harvard (and later T6) aircraft. Wonderful, fool proof
, free-fall to down lock gear! The uplock was released mechanically with
movement of the gear handle to down.
But with time, wear, spring failure (and vibration?) it was possible for th
e handle to go to down on it=99s own. Just an annoyance for the Harv
ard/T6 but fatal for at least one Mustang. Very high speed pass and pull u
p, gear falls and wing fails.
The fix was a simple over-center spring bungee added to the handle linkage.
Still (IMHO) the best gear ever!
I installed complete new uplock systems on two of those CJ=99s includ
ing mine. Two of the new owners were happy without uplocks but I found it
annoying to have red lights flashing every time I pulled some G=99s.
To those with uplocks installed I highly recommend a periodic removal and i
nspection of the release valves and emerg. valves.
Walt
From: doug sapp
Sent: Wednesday, March 15, 2017 8:36 AM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: unlocks not always locking...
I agree with Dennis, up is gear up-- down is gear down, leave it alone, do
not return it to neutral in flight.
Do you have up locks?? A few CJs did not, they relied on air pressure to h
old the gear up.
Doug
On Wed, Mar 15, 2017 at 4:15 AM, A. Dennis Savarese <dsavarese0812@bellsout
h.net> wrote:
Why do you put the gear handle in neutral in the first place?
Do you know what happens when you put the gear selector in neutral?
Dennis
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
---
From: JL2A <info@flyingwarbirds.com.au>
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, March 15, 2017 6:46 AM
Subject: Yak-List: unlocks not always locking...
Calling the CJ brains trust! Strange problem has just manifested itself,
CJ6:
Gear handle in DOWN on the ground. Get airborne, gear handle to UP
Get three red lights, gear handle NEUTRAL.
They all fall down. Sometimes just one, sometimes two.
To fix, I selected handle NEUTRAL while gear is down and locked, then sel
ected DOWN for 3 seconds, then UP. This seemed to give the gear a little mo
re momentum and they get up & locked no problems
Can't replicate it every time, it only sometimes does it... the unlocks d
on't seem to lock when this happens, even if flying with gear handle in the
UP position, anything over 1.5 G pulls the gear out enough to extinguish t
he 'gear up' red lights, meaning they are being held by actuators only.
Needless to say no aerobatics until they are locked...
Have had engineer check unlocks, hook position/angle etc. No audible air
leaks.
My only explanation is that when selecting UP, a bit of air is leaking in
to the DOWN lines at the same time and activating the unlock actuators a li
ttle, preventing the unlocks from locking...
Strange one, any other ideas? Would this be possible? I don't have a grea
t grasp of where all the check valves etc are located and for what reason i
n the gear system.
Anatole
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.pcs.com/Navigator?Yak-List" target
="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigsp; - MATRONICS WEB F
ORUMS -
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Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Yak-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 03/14/17 |
My 1995 YAK-52 is for sale. Contact me off list for further information.
Fred Schlafly
fschlafly@sprynet.com
Miami, FL
On 3/15/17, 3:04 AM, "yak-list" <yak-list@matronics.com> wrote:
> *
>
> =================================================
> Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive
> =================================================
>
> Today's complete Yak-List Digest can also be found in either of the
> two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest formatted
> in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes
> and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version
> of the Yak-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text editor
> such as Notepad or with a web browser.
>
> HTML Version:
>
>
> http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=html&Chapter=2
> 017-03-14&Archive=Yak
>
> Text Version:
>
>
> http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=txt&Chapter
> 17-03-14&Archive=Yak
>
>
> ===============================================
> EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive
> ===============================================
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------
> Yak-List Digest Archive
> ---
> Total Messages Posted Tue 03/14/17: 2
> ----------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> Today's Message Index:
> ----------------------
>
> 1. 03:05 AM - Re: Re: M-14P TBO (Richard Goode)
> 2. 12:27 PM - CJ-6 MLG Jacks (n38139)
>
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 1
> _____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 03:05:14 AM PST US
> From: "Richard Goode" <richard.goode@russianaeros.com>
> Subject: RE: Yak-List: Re: M-14P TBO
>
>
> I have had a look through our files for original OKBM lifetime statement.
> However, after 30 years of dealing in these engines, and the Russian
> keenness for paperwork we literally have thousands of pages in our archives
> and I couldn't immediately find it without spending a lot of time. However,
> surely these hours, whether over- conservative or not, are so widely known,
> and indeed I suspect the only interest people have is to increase the
> permitted hours in those countries where they have to be followed.
>
> Unless things have changed significantly at Shakty, I am sceptical of the
> quality of work coming out of any Russian factory. Over the years, I have
> visited all the factories - OKBM; Voronezh Manufacturing Plant; Veenitsa;
> Shakty, and the common problems they all have today are that they are
> under-funded; occupying large and very expensive to run factories as well as
> being very short of parts. In particular Voronezh, which was the central
> source of spare parts, sold everything related to M 14 engines last year.
>
> You're lucky if you can operate your engines on condition - in Europe we
> have to follow the strict manufacturers figures - mind you I'm always rather
> sceptical of the hours in the aircraft logbooks of private owners!
>
> We have had similar problems in Europe in that we had been using a "Mickey
> Mouse" Russian registration which, about 14 years ago the various European
> authorities declared (and quite correctly) as being illegal. Effectively
> this would have grounded most Yaks and Sukhois in Europe. Fortunately I had
> a friend running certification at EASA and he created a completely
> artificial category of "restricted certification" for all Sukhois; Yak
> 18T/54/55. I suspect that is where your authorities have come up with your
> legislation. Then the non-certified aircraft like 50; 52 were left for the
> individual national authorities to decide whether to accept them or not, and
> the majority of countries don't accept them, although in a number of cases
> they will accept the aircraft if they have some form of restricted or
> experimental registration from another country - a total lack of
> coordination.
>
> Richard Goode Aerobatics
> Rhodds Farm
> Lyonshall
> Hereford
> HR5 3LW
>
> Tel: +44 (0) 1544 340120
> Fax: +44 (0) 1544 340129
> www.russianaeros.com
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Looigi
> Sent: 13 March 2017 20:44
> Subject: Yak-List: Re: M-14P TBO
>
>
> Thanks for your post Richard.
>
> Do you have any of the OKBM data you refer?
>
> I wasn't questioning the quality, merely the scope of the work. I had the
> privilege of going to the Shakhty overhaul facility a bit over a year ago
> and I had a good look at their operation. I have been a Licenced Aircraft
> Engineer for many years now and I have worked at many places all over the
> world. I can honestly say that the Shakhty plant is old, and not very
> impressive looking, but it was clean, tidy and as far as the work they turn
> out and the skill of the guys who work there goes, they would hold their own
> with anything I have seen elsewhere else.
>
> And yes, I agree totally with your comments about engine life. I have been
> told that the air race guys never even make three digits with their engine
> lives!.
>
> We have set overhaul periods for components here in NZ like anywhere, but
> for non-commercial operations we are allowed to run our engines on condition
> until it is out of limits (leak downs, oil consumption, SOAP etc), even then
> a cylinder change can sort most of that. The reality is that all engines
> are on condition all of the time. If a new engine starts making metal, or
> shows other signs of distress you deal with it the same as you would an old
> one.
>
> The issue I am having is that our CAA have put these planes into a
> Restricted Limited category which means they treat them as a certified
> aircraft built to a standard, they just don't know what the standard is.
> Because manufacturers data is scarce or unobtainable, Chinese whispers
> (sorry CJ6 guys) and Facebook seem to be being held up as gospel. Add into
> the mix the difference in manufacturing and regulation philosophies, the
> breakup of the Soviet Union and the language barrier and my frustration
> levels rise.
>
> What I think I am hearing is that I am just going to have to suck it up,
> accept that there isn't a right answer and make the most of it.
>
> Now, where are my OCD pills....?
>
> Chris
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=467258#467258
>
>
> --
> This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by
> MailScanner, and is believed to be clean.
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 2
> _____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 12:27:35 PM PST US
> Subject: Yak-List: CJ-6 MLG Jacks
> From: "n38139" <n38139@yahoo.com>
>
>
> I have a set of MLG jacks I bought from Doug and am not going to use them.
> They
> are still on the shipping pallet. I am in the middle of the US and willing
> to ship if needed. $700 plus shipping
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=467300#467300
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Yak-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 03/14/17 |
My 1995 YAK-52 is for sale. Please contact me off list for more information.
Fred Schlafly
fschlafly@sprynet.com
Miami, FL
On 3/15/17, 3:04 AM, "yak-list" <yak-list@matronics.com> wrote:
> *
>
> =================================================
> Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive
> =================================================
>
> Today's complete Yak-List Digest can also be found in either of the
> two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest formatted
> in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes
> and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version
> of the Yak-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text editor
> such as Notepad or with a web browser.
>
> HTML Version:
>
>
> http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=html&Chapter=2
> 017-03-14&Archive=Yak
>
> Text Version:
>
>
> http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=txt&Chapter
> 17-03-14&Archive=Yak
>
>
> ===============================================
> EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive
> ===============================================
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------
> Yak-List Digest Archive
> ---
> Total Messages Posted Tue 03/14/17: 2
> ----------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> Today's Message Index:
> ----------------------
>
> 1. 03:05 AM - Re: Re: M-14P TBO (Richard Goode)
> 2. 12:27 PM - CJ-6 MLG Jacks (n38139)
>
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 1
> _____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 03:05:14 AM PST US
> From: "Richard Goode" <richard.goode@russianaeros.com>
> Subject: RE: Yak-List: Re: M-14P TBO
>
>
> I have had a look through our files for original OKBM lifetime statement.
> However, after 30 years of dealing in these engines, and the Russian
> keenness for paperwork we literally have thousands of pages in our archives
> and I couldn't immediately find it without spending a lot of time. However,
> surely these hours, whether over- conservative or not, are so widely known,
> and indeed I suspect the only interest people have is to increase the
> permitted hours in those countries where they have to be followed.
>
> Unless things have changed significantly at Shakty, I am sceptical of the
> quality of work coming out of any Russian factory. Over the years, I have
> visited all the factories - OKBM; Voronezh Manufacturing Plant; Veenitsa;
> Shakty, and the common problems they all have today are that they are
> under-funded; occupying large and very expensive to run factories as well as
> being very short of parts. In particular Voronezh, which was the central
> source of spare parts, sold everything related to M 14 engines last year.
>
> You're lucky if you can operate your engines on condition - in Europe we
> have to follow the strict manufacturers figures - mind you I'm always rather
> sceptical of the hours in the aircraft logbooks of private owners!
>
> We have had similar problems in Europe in that we had been using a "Mickey
> Mouse" Russian registration which, about 14 years ago the various European
> authorities declared (and quite correctly) as being illegal. Effectively
> this would have grounded most Yaks and Sukhois in Europe. Fortunately I had
> a friend running certification at EASA and he created a completely
> artificial category of "restricted certification" for all Sukhois; Yak
> 18T/54/55. I suspect that is where your authorities have come up with your
> legislation. Then the non-certified aircraft like 50; 52 were left for the
> individual national authorities to decide whether to accept them or not, and
> the majority of countries don't accept them, although in a number of cases
> they will accept the aircraft if they have some form of restricted or
> experimental registration from another country - a total lack of
> coordination.
>
> Richard Goode Aerobatics
> Rhodds Farm
> Lyonshall
> Hereford
> HR5 3LW
>
> Tel: +44 (0) 1544 340120
> Fax: +44 (0) 1544 340129
> www.russianaeros.com
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Looigi
> Sent: 13 March 2017 20:44
> Subject: Yak-List: Re: M-14P TBO
>
>
> Thanks for your post Richard.
>
> Do you have any of the OKBM data you refer?
>
> I wasn't questioning the quality, merely the scope of the work. I had the
> privilege of going to the Shakhty overhaul facility a bit over a year ago
> and I had a good look at their operation. I have been a Licenced Aircraft
> Engineer for many years now and I have worked at many places all over the
> world. I can honestly say that the Shakhty plant is old, and not very
> impressive looking, but it was clean, tidy and as far as the work they turn
> out and the skill of the guys who work there goes, they would hold their own
> with anything I have seen elsewhere else.
>
> And yes, I agree totally with your comments about engine life. I have been
> told that the air race guys never even make three digits with their engine
> lives!.
>
> We have set overhaul periods for components here in NZ like anywhere, but
> for non-commercial operations we are allowed to run our engines on condition
> until it is out of limits (leak downs, oil consumption, SOAP etc), even then
> a cylinder change can sort most of that. The reality is that all engines
> are on condition all of the time. If a new engine starts making metal, or
> shows other signs of distress you deal with it the same as you would an old
> one.
>
> The issue I am having is that our CAA have put these planes into a
> Restricted Limited category which means they treat them as a certified
> aircraft built to a standard, they just don't know what the standard is.
> Because manufacturers data is scarce or unobtainable, Chinese whispers
> (sorry CJ6 guys) and Facebook seem to be being held up as gospel. Add into
> the mix the difference in manufacturing and regulation philosophies, the
> breakup of the Soviet Union and the language barrier and my frustration
> levels rise.
>
> What I think I am hearing is that I am just going to have to suck it up,
> accept that there isn't a right answer and make the most of it.
>
> Now, where are my OCD pills....?
>
> Chris
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=467258#467258
>
>
> --
> This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by
> MailScanner, and is believed to be clean.
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 2
> _____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 12:27:35 PM PST US
> Subject: Yak-List: CJ-6 MLG Jacks
> From: "n38139" <n38139@yahoo.com>
>
>
> I have a set of MLG jacks I bought from Doug and am not going to use them.
> They
> are still on the shipping pallet. I am in the middle of the US and willing
> to ship if needed. $700 plus shipping
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=467300#467300
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 15
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|
| Subject: | Re: Yak-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 03/14/17 |
My 1995 YAK-52 is for sale. Please contact me off list for more information.
Fred Schlafly
fschlafly@sprynet.com
Miami, FL
On 3/15/17, 3:04 AM, "yak-list" <yak-list@matronics.com> wrote:
> *
>
> =================================================
> Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive
> =================================================
>
> Today's complete Yak-List Digest can also be found in either of the
> two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest formatted
> in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes
> and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version
> of the Yak-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text editor
> such as Notepad or with a web browser.
>
> HTML Version:
>
>
> http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=html&Chapter=2
> 017-03-14&Archive=Yak
>
> Text Version:
>
>
> http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=txt&Chapter
> 17-03-14&Archive=Yak
>
>
> ===============================================
> EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive
> ===============================================
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------
> Yak-List Digest Archive
> ---
> Total Messages Posted Tue 03/14/17: 2
> ----------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> Today's Message Index:
> ----------------------
>
> 1. 03:05 AM - Re: Re: M-14P TBO (Richard Goode)
> 2. 12:27 PM - CJ-6 MLG Jacks (n38139)
>
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 1
> _____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 03:05:14 AM PST US
> From: "Richard Goode" <richard.goode@russianaeros.com>
> Subject: RE: Yak-List: Re: M-14P TBO
>
>
> I have had a look through our files for original OKBM lifetime statement.
> However, after 30 years of dealing in these engines, and the Russian
> keenness for paperwork we literally have thousands of pages in our archives
> and I couldn't immediately find it without spending a lot of time. However,
> surely these hours, whether over- conservative or not, are so widely known,
> and indeed I suspect the only interest people have is to increase the
> permitted hours in those countries where they have to be followed.
>
> Unless things have changed significantly at Shakty, I am sceptical of the
> quality of work coming out of any Russian factory. Over the years, I have
> visited all the factories - OKBM; Voronezh Manufacturing Plant; Veenitsa;
> Shakty, and the common problems they all have today are that they are
> under-funded; occupying large and very expensive to run factories as well as
> being very short of parts. In particular Voronezh, which was the central
> source of spare parts, sold everything related to M 14 engines last year.
>
> You're lucky if you can operate your engines on condition - in Europe we
> have to follow the strict manufacturers figures - mind you I'm always rather
> sceptical of the hours in the aircraft logbooks of private owners!
>
> We have had similar problems in Europe in that we had been using a "Mickey
> Mouse" Russian registration which, about 14 years ago the various European
> authorities declared (and quite correctly) as being illegal. Effectively
> this would have grounded most Yaks and Sukhois in Europe. Fortunately I had
> a friend running certification at EASA and he created a completely
> artificial category of "restricted certification" for all Sukhois; Yak
> 18T/54/55. I suspect that is where your authorities have come up with your
> legislation. Then the non-certified aircraft like 50; 52 were left for the
> individual national authorities to decide whether to accept them or not, and
> the majority of countries don't accept them, although in a number of cases
> they will accept the aircraft if they have some form of restricted or
> experimental registration from another country - a total lack of
> coordination.
>
> Richard Goode Aerobatics
> Rhodds Farm
> Lyonshall
> Hereford
> HR5 3LW
>
> Tel: +44 (0) 1544 340120
> Fax: +44 (0) 1544 340129
> www.russianaeros.com
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Looigi
> Sent: 13 March 2017 20:44
> Subject: Yak-List: Re: M-14P TBO
>
>
> Thanks for your post Richard.
>
> Do you have any of the OKBM data you refer?
>
> I wasn't questioning the quality, merely the scope of the work. I had the
> privilege of going to the Shakhty overhaul facility a bit over a year ago
> and I had a good look at their operation. I have been a Licenced Aircraft
> Engineer for many years now and I have worked at many places all over the
> world. I can honestly say that the Shakhty plant is old, and not very
> impressive looking, but it was clean, tidy and as far as the work they turn
> out and the skill of the guys who work there goes, they would hold their own
> with anything I have seen elsewhere else.
>
> And yes, I agree totally with your comments about engine life. I have been
> told that the air race guys never even make three digits with their engine
> lives!.
>
> We have set overhaul periods for components here in NZ like anywhere, but
> for non-commercial operations we are allowed to run our engines on condition
> until it is out of limits (leak downs, oil consumption, SOAP etc), even then
> a cylinder change can sort most of that. The reality is that all engines
> are on condition all of the time. If a new engine starts making metal, or
> shows other signs of distress you deal with it the same as you would an old
> one.
>
> The issue I am having is that our CAA have put these planes into a
> Restricted Limited category which means they treat them as a certified
> aircraft built to a standard, they just don't know what the standard is.
> Because manufacturers data is scarce or unobtainable, Chinese whispers
> (sorry CJ6 guys) and Facebook seem to be being held up as gospel. Add into
> the mix the difference in manufacturing and regulation philosophies, the
> breakup of the Soviet Union and the language barrier and my frustration
> levels rise.
>
> What I think I am hearing is that I am just going to have to suck it up,
> accept that there isn't a right answer and make the most of it.
>
> Now, where are my OCD pills....?
>
> Chris
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=467258#467258
>
>
> --
> This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by
> MailScanner, and is believed to be clean.
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 2
> _____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 12:27:35 PM PST US
> Subject: Yak-List: CJ-6 MLG Jacks
> From: "n38139" <n38139@yahoo.com>
>
>
> I have a set of MLG jacks I bought from Doug and am not going to use them.
> They
> are still on the shipping pallet. I am in the middle of the US and willing
> to ship if needed. $700 plus shipping
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=467300#467300
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 16
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|
| Subject: | Re: unlocks not always locking... |
I thought this might devolve into a handle position thread!
In the OP I did say that with the handle in UP that the aerobatic G forces pull
the gear out enough for the uplock microswitch to turn off.
i.e.. I fly with the handle in UP
Which is why it was interesting to find that when reverting to the gear handle
neutral when flying method that the uplocks were occasionally not locking, even
though microswitches were clicking.
Regarding the presence of uplocks, not being an engineering expert, I figured they
put the uplocks were there so there was less stress on the actuator and retraction
assembly while pulling up to 6 Gs? Seems to make sense in a mechanical-sympathy
sort of way.
Thanks Jim, I will give them a good clean and see what happens.
PS we also checked the gear doors for contact etc. nothing has shifted
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=467358#467358
Message 17
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|
| Subject: | Re: unlocks not always locking... |
> Why do you put the gear handle in neutral in the first place?
> Do you know what happens when you put the gear selector in neutral?
>
> Dennis
>
>
The air vents out the gear handle, actuators have atmospheric pressure only in
them, and the gear rests on the uplocks?
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=467359#467359
Message 18
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|
| Subject: | Re: unlocks not always locking... |
If you keep pulling 6 Gs in a CJ, your wings are going to be in the UP
position.
On Wed, Mar 15, 2017 at 5:30 PM JL2A <info@flyingwarbirds.com.au> wrote:
>
>
> > Why do you put the gear handle in neutral in the first place?
> > Do you know what happens when you put the gear selector in neutral?
> >
> > Dennis
> >
> >
>
>
> The air vents out the gear handle, actuators have atmospheric pressure
> only in them, and the gear rests on the uplocks?
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=467359#467359
>
>
Message 19
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|
| Subject: | Re: unlocks not always locking... |
> If you keep pulling 6 Gs in a CJ, your wings are going to be in the UP position.
I was talking from a design point of view. The airframe was designed and rated
to 6Gs, so the gear system must be stress tested to handle this over the design
life too.
We have a 4G soft limit for all our aeros. Don't really see the need for more.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=467372#467372
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