---------------------------------------------------------- Yak-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Thu 04/27/17: 7 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 12:50 AM - Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: HS6 primer upgrade questions (Richard Goode) 2. 01:04 AM - Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: HS6 primer upgrade questions (Hans Oortman) 3. 03:30 AM - KOSH housing (Craig Payne) 4. 09:01 AM - Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: HS6 primer upgrade questions (Bitterlich, Mark G CIV NAVAIR, WD) 5. 09:27 AM - Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: HS6 primer upgrade questions (Hans Oortman) 6. 10:54 AM - Re: CJ6 Cone Bolt (or Taper Pin)... (stephen.hayne) 7. 03:06 PM - Re: Dates for Informal Clinics in the SE US (cjpilot710@aol.com) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 12:50:59 AM PST US From: "Richard Goode" Subject: RE: [Non-DoD Source] Yak-List: Re: HS6 primer upgrade questions It is confusing if one refers to the positions on the primer as being "right" and "left". Remember that on some Yaks these are reversed, and for clarity one should talk about "system" (that is carburettor) and "cylinder" (for priming). Richard Goode Aerobatics Rhodds Farm Lyonshall Hereford HR5 3LW Tel: +44 (0) 1544 340120 Fax: +44 (0) 1544 340129 www.russianaeros.com -----Original Message----- From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Hans Oortman Sent: 26 April 2017 21:15 Subject: Re: [Non-DoD Source] Yak-List: Re: HS6 primer upgrade questions Mark, I have never had any problems in starting the Yak52 in very cold weather. Even after standing still for weeks. As our technician(Ricardas) is saying, patience is all there is, i.e. Prime the engine on both sides, left 6 or 7 times, right 10 times. Get off the wing, do your walk around and crank the prop at least 12 times with the drain valve CLOSED. Closed because otherwise it will wipe away the oil from the bottom cilinder surfaces and the cilinder heads resulting in "dry" running during the start of the engine. Get in the plane, strap in prime 5 times on the right side and hit the button(in practice after in total around 5 or 6 mins).....it will start after 1 blade, guaranteed. Certainly with the automotive kit installed. Just my 2 cents.... Hans O. Op 26-04-17 17:35, Bitterlich, Mark G CIV NAVAIR, WD schreef: > > > Vic, not to dispute your desire to better aerate the primer stream, > but I think you would get much better results following Greg Wrobel's > advice of making sure to pull the prop through after > priming a good number of times. Having started in temps down near zero, I > have learned the hard way they just priming the fool out of the engine > and then pushing the starter button can easily run you out of air. > Worse, the best way to get a good fire in the engine bay is to do > this, and then keep hoping for that miracle start on the very last dregs of air. Yes, I did that. > > Lastly, and I assume you have an intake drain kit installed, leave that valve > open when priming, at least in summer anyway. If you prime when standing > outside the aircraft (Yak-50) then walk around to pull it through, by > the time you have done that, the excess fuel is running out the intake > drain preventing a wad of fuel from being sucked into a cylinder. > Shut off drain valve, go start. > > That said, there are many methods, mostly all meet with success, but > pulling through is a key element to a quick start. > > Mark > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Vic > Sent: Wednesday, April 26, 2017 8:13 AM > To: yak-list@matronics.com > Subject: [Non-DoD Source] Yak-List: Re: HS6 primer upgrade questions > > > Hi Phil, > I did not like the design of the jet, so was thinking along the lines > of jets used in central heating oil burners. There is a taper top > seated inside with very fine grooves that do not point exactly to the > center. That is to produce some swirl and resulting in a cone of oil > spray out of the tiny jet. For primer application all details can be > much more rough than for burner use. You have to experiment a little > with water from your water tap at home to see what it does. But it is > no very big deal to make up a jet for your purpose and maybe use some part of a burner. > > Vic > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=468797#468797 > > > > > Attachments: > > http://forums.matronics.com//files/p1050236_kkk_104.jpg > http://forums.matronics.com//files/p1050237_kkk_627.jpg > http://forums.matronics.com//files/p1050240_kkk_117.jpg > http://forums.matronics.com//files/p1050241__kkk_196.jpg > > > > > > > > > > -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 01:04:38 AM PST US Subject: Re: [Non-DoD Source] Yak-List: Re: HS6 primer upgrade questions From: Hans Oortman Afirm Richard. Sorry about that! The routine creeped in... Hans O. Op 27-04-17 09:48 schreef Richard Goode : > > >It is confusing if one refers to the positions on the primer as being >"right" and "left". Remember that on some Yaks these are reversed, and for >clarity one should talk about "system" (that is carburettor) and >"cylinder" >(for priming). > >Richard Goode Aerobatics >Rhodds Farm >Lyonshall >Hereford >HR5 3LW > >Tel: +44 (0) 1544 340120 >Fax: +44 (0) 1544 340129 >www.russianaeros.com > >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com >[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Hans Oortman >Sent: 26 April 2017 21:15 >To: yak-list@matronics.com >Subject: Re: [Non-DoD Source] Yak-List: Re: HS6 primer upgrade questions > > >Mark, > >I have never had any problems in starting the Yak52 in very cold weather. >Even after standing still for weeks. As our technician(Ricardas) is >saying, >patience is all there is, i.e. Prime the engine on both sides, left 6 or 7 >times, right 10 times. Get off the wing, do your walk around and crank the >prop at least 12 times with the drain valve CLOSED. Closed because >otherwise >it will wipe away the oil from the bottom cilinder surfaces and the >cilinder >heads resulting in "dry" running during the start of the engine. >Get in the plane, strap in prime 5 times on the right side and hit the >button(in practice after in total around 5 or 6 mins).....it will start >after 1 blade, guaranteed. Certainly with the automotive kit installed. > >Just my 2 cents.... > >Hans O. > > >Op 26-04-17 17:35, Bitterlich, Mark G CIV NAVAIR, WD > schreef: > >> >> >> Vic, not to dispute your desire to better aerate the primer stream, >> but I think you would get much better results following Greg Wrobel's >> advice of making sure to pull the prop through >after >> priming a good number of times. Having started in temps down near >>zero, >I >> have learned the hard way they just priming the fool out of the engine >> and then pushing the starter button can easily run you out of air. >> Worse, the best way to get a good fire in the engine bay is to do >> this, and then keep hoping for that miracle start on the very last dregs >of air. Yes, I did that. >> >> Lastly, and I assume you have an intake drain kit installed, leave that >valve >> open when priming, at least in summer anyway. If you prime when >>standing >> outside the aircraft (Yak-50) then walk around to pull it through, by >> the time you have done that, the excess fuel is running out the intake >> drain preventing a wad of fuel from being sucked into a cylinder. >> Shut off drain valve, go start. >> >> That said, there are many methods, mostly all meet with success, but >> pulling through is a key element to a quick start. >> >> Mark >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com >> [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Vic >> Sent: Wednesday, April 26, 2017 8:13 AM >> To: yak-list@matronics.com >> Subject: [Non-DoD Source] Yak-List: Re: HS6 primer upgrade questions >> >> >> Hi Phil, >> I did not like the design of the jet, so was thinking along the lines >> of jets used in central heating oil burners. There is a taper top >> seated inside with very fine grooves that do not point exactly to the >> center. That is to produce some swirl and resulting in a cone of oil >> spray out of the tiny jet. For primer application all details can be >> much more rough than for burner use. You have to experiment a little >> with water from your water tap at home to see what it does. But it is >> no very big deal to make up a jet for your purpose and maybe use some >>part >of a burner. >> >> Vic >> >> >> >> >> Read this topic online here: >> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=468797#468797 >> >> >> >> >> Attachments: >> >> http://forums.matronics.com//files/p1050236_kkk_104.jpg >> http://forums.matronics.com//files/p1050237_kkk_627.jpg >> http://forums.matronics.com//files/p1050240_kkk_117.jpg >> http://forums.matronics.com//files/p1050241__kkk_196.jpg >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > >-- >This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by >MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. > > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 03:30:37 AM PST US From: Craig Payne Subject: Yak-List: KOSH housing I still have that extra bed in an air-conditioned dorm for $437.50, Sunday to Sunday. Buses run between dorms and EAA grounds regularly. Walk-to restaurants and beer garden too. Craig Payne ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 09:01:56 AM PST US From: "Bitterlich, Mark G CIV NAVAIR, WD" Subject: RE: [Non-DoD Source] Yak-List: Re: HS6 primer upgrade questions Hans, not sure if we are talking about the same drain valve. What valve (that if you close) will wipe away the oil from the bottom cylinders? Mark -----Original Message----- From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Hans Oortman Sent: Wednesday, April 26, 2017 4:15 PM Subject: Re: [Non-DoD Source] Yak-List: Re: HS6 primer upgrade questions Mark, I have never had any problems in starting the Yak52 in very cold weather. Even after standing still for weeks. As our technician(Ricardas) is saying, patience is all there is, i.e. Prime the engine on both sides, left 6 or 7 times, right 10 times. Get off the wing, do your walk around and crank the prop at least 12 times with the drain valve CLOSED. Closed because otherwise it will wipe away the oil from the bottom cilinder surfaces and the cilinder heads resulting in "dry" running during the start of the engine. Get in the plane, strap in prime 5 times on the right side and hit the button(in practice after in total around 5 or 6 mins).....it will start after 1 blade, guaranteed. Certainly with the automotive kit installed. Just my 2 cents.... Hans O. Op 26-04-17 17:35, Bitterlich, Mark G CIV NAVAIR, WD schreef: > > > Vic, not to dispute your desire to better aerate the primer stream, > but I think you would get much better results following Greg Wrobel's > advice of making sure to pull the prop through after > priming a good number of times. Having started in temps down near zero, I > have learned the hard way they just priming the fool out of the engine > and then pushing the starter button can easily run you out of air. > Worse, the best way to get a good fire in the engine bay is to do > this, and then keep hoping for that miracle start on the very last dregs of air. Yes, I did that. > > Lastly, and I assume you have an intake drain kit installed, leave that valve > open when priming, at least in summer anyway. If you prime when standing > outside the aircraft (Yak-50) then walk around to pull it through, by > the time you have done that, the excess fuel is running out the intake > drain preventing a wad of fuel from being sucked into a cylinder. > Shut off drain valve, go start. > > That said, there are many methods, mostly all meet with success, but > pulling through is a key element to a quick start. > > Mark > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Vic > Sent: Wednesday, April 26, 2017 8:13 AM > To: yak-list@matronics.com > Subject: [Non-DoD Source] Yak-List: Re: HS6 primer upgrade questions > > > Hi Phil, > I did not like the design of the jet, so was thinking along the lines > of jets used in central heating oil burners. There is a taper top > seated inside with very fine grooves that do not point exactly to the > center. That is to produce some swirl and resulting in a cone of oil > spray out of the tiny jet. For primer application all details can be > much more rough than for burner use. You have to experiment a little > with water from your water tap at home to see what it does. But it is > no very big deal to make up a jet for your purpose and maybe use some part of a burner. > > Vic > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=468797#468797 > > > Attachments: > > http://forums.matronics.com//files/p1050236_kkk_104.jpg > http://forums.matronics.com//files/p1050237_kkk_627.jpg > http://forums.matronics.com//files/p1050240_kkk_117.jpg > http://forums.matronics.com//files/p1050241__kkk_196.jpg > > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 09:27:07 AM PST US Subject: Re: [Non-DoD Source] Yak-List: Re: HS6 primer upgrade questions From: Hans Oortman Yeah, Im pretty sure we talk about the same thing. The valve to avoid a hydro lock in the cylinders. Right? Hans O. Op 27-04-17 17:59 schreef Bitterlich, Mark G CIV NAVAIR, WD : > > >Hans, not sure if we are talking about the same drain valve. What valve >(that if you close) will wipe away the oil from the bottom cylinders? > >Mark > > >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com >[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Hans Oortman >Sent: Wednesday, April 26, 2017 4:15 PM >To: yak-list@matronics.com >Subject: Re: [Non-DoD Source] Yak-List: Re: HS6 primer upgrade questions > > >Mark, > >I have never had any problems in starting the Yak52 in very cold weather. >Even after standing still for weeks. As our technician(Ricardas) is >saying, patience is all there is, i.e. Prime the engine on both sides, >left 6 or 7 times, right 10 times. Get off the wing, do your walk around >and crank the prop at least 12 times with the drain valve CLOSED. Closed >because otherwise it will wipe away the oil from the bottom cilinder >surfaces and the cilinder heads resulting in "dry" running during the >start of the engine. >Get in the plane, strap in prime 5 times on the right side and hit the >button(in practice after in total around 5 or 6 mins).....it will start >after 1 blade, guaranteed. Certainly with the automotive kit installed. > >Just my 2 cents.... > >Hans O. > > >Op 26-04-17 17:35, Bitterlich, Mark G CIV NAVAIR, WD > schreef: > >> >> >> Vic, not to dispute your desire to better aerate the primer stream, >> but I think you would get much better results following Greg Wrobel's >> advice of making sure to pull the prop through >>after >> priming a good number of times. Having started in temps down near >>zero, I >> have learned the hard way they just priming the fool out of the engine >> and then pushing the starter button can easily run you out of air. >> Worse, the best way to get a good fire in the engine bay is to do >> this, and then keep hoping for that miracle start on the very last >>dregs of air. Yes, I did that. >> >> Lastly, and I assume you have an intake drain kit installed, leave that >>valve >> open when priming, at least in summer anyway. If you prime when >>standing >> outside the aircraft (Yak-50) then walk around to pull it through, by >> the time you have done that, the excess fuel is running out the intake >> drain preventing a wad of fuel from being sucked into a cylinder. >> Shut off drain valve, go start. >> >> That said, there are many methods, mostly all meet with success, but >> pulling through is a key element to a quick start. >> >> Mark >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com >> [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Vic >> Sent: Wednesday, April 26, 2017 8:13 AM >> To: yak-list@matronics.com >> Subject: [Non-DoD Source] Yak-List: Re: HS6 primer upgrade questions >> >> >> Hi Phil, >> I did not like the design of the jet, so was thinking along the lines >> of jets used in central heating oil burners. There is a taper top >> seated inside with very fine grooves that do not point exactly to the >> center. That is to produce some swirl and resulting in a cone of oil >> spray out of the tiny jet. For primer application all details can be >> much more rough than for burner use. You have to experiment a little >> with water from your water tap at home to see what it does. But it is >> no very big deal to make up a jet for your purpose and maybe use some >>part of a burner. >> >> Vic >> >> >> >> >> Read this topic online here: >> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=468797#468797 >> >> >> >> >> Attachments: >> >> http://forums.matronics.com//files/p1050236_kkk_104.jpg >> http://forums.matronics.com//files/p1050237_kkk_627.jpg >> http://forums.matronics.com//files/p1050240_kkk_117.jpg >> http://forums.matronics.com//files/p1050241__kkk_196.jpg >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 10:54:34 AM PST US Subject: Yak-List: Re: CJ6 Cone Bolt (or Taper Pin)... From: "stephen.hayne" OK - an update to the "taper pin reamer", or "cone bolt reamer" odyssey. I'm writing this down here so that google can find it and maybe other folks will find it useful... I have found a reamer that will match this design of taper pin... after MUCH research and calling 3 different tool companies, I discovered that these use the "Jarno" angle/design, which is a 1:20 slope - not the 1:48 of the Morse standard, or 1:50 of Metric. And, one can buy these reamers fairly cheaply - $50. They come in all sorts of standard sizes, and I am going to try the #2, which might be perfect. Might need the #3 to go after the big end, maybe, given the depth of the overall "hole". Jarno seems to be the middle name of the fellow who invented many of the standard tapers in the late 1800's! He was the engineering head of Browne and Sharpe... this was quite the "hunt" and almost enjoyable for a geek like me. :) http://www.circuitousroot.com/artifice/machine-shop/tapers/jarno/index.html I ordered it from here... http://gammons.com/files/Catalogs/Helical%20Jarno%20Taper%20Reamers.pdf It worked PERFECTLY. The new cone bolt/taper pins fit beautifully, and I am very happy. If anyone faces this problem, just contact me and I will loan you the reamer. No point in paying $55 for a one time use, like I did. :) Stephen -------- - Dr. Stephen C. Hayne, Professor, CIS, Colorado State University __!__ _____(_)_____ 666CJ Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=468857#468857 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_20170421_160707_310.jpg ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 03:06:14 PM PST US From: cjpilot710@aol.com Subject: Re: Yak-List: Dates for Informal Clinics in the SE US Most likely will have my CJ back on line by Sept. Pappy In a message dated 4/26/2017 5:24:45 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, jblake207@comcast.net writes: Here=99s a snapshot view of planned events. If you plan to attend let me know - OFF LIST. May 13th: Walterboro, SC KRBW June 9-11: Muscle Shoals, AL KMSL June 24th: Enterprise, AL KEDN July TBD: Lebanon, TN M54 (T) July 24-30: Oshkosh, WI KOSH August TBD: Statesboro, GA KTBR September: Hampton, GA KHMP October 12-15: Waycross, GA KAYS November TBD: Maybe Central Florida??December TBD: ?? Jon Blake jblake207@comcast.net ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message yak-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Yak-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/yak-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/yak-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.