---------------------------------------------------------- Yak-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Mon 07/17/17: 4 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 06:11 AM - Missing Man for my Father in Law (Ernest Martinez) 2. 06:13 AM - Re: Missing Man for my Father in Law (Ernest Martinez) 3. 09:47 AM - Re: Battery Charging CJ-6 (in this case Yak's) (Bitterlich, Mark G CIV NAVAIR, WD) 4. 12:14 PM - Re: Re: Battery Charging CJ-6 (in this case Yak's) (Dr. Herbert Coussons) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 06:11:49 AM PST US From: Ernest Martinez Subject: Yak-List: Missing Man for my Father in Law I'm reaching out to you all in the Cleveland Ohio area. My father in Law Robert D. Shea passed away recently and we will be having a ceremony at KCGF which is named after him. I would mean a lot to the family if we could get a missing man over the field during the ceremony. His Obit is below. *Robert D. Shea, 93, died Saturday, June 14, 2017 in Ocala, Fl. surrounded > by family. * > > *He leaves behind his 4 children Robert Jr, John, Mary and Tom.* > > * Born in Cleveland, son of Margarite (Mitchell) and Patrick Shea, he was > a longtime resident of Gates Mills, OH * > > * He served as an Army Air Corps pilot during WWII and went on to graduate > from Ohio University in 1948. After the war he dedicated his life to > aviation, first as a Flight Instructor in the Air Force reserve from > 1946-1948 and in 1949 opened the Cuyahoga County Airport and served as > airport manager for 42 years. * > > *In 1963 Robert was the Recipient of the Air Force Association Aero Space > Award and 1990 Recipient of the American Association of Airport Managers > Distinguished Service Award. He was beloved member of the QB Society for 40 > years. * > * He continued to serve the aviation community as:* > > > * - President of the Ohio Airport Managers Association from 1976 thru 1977 - President of the Cleveland National Air Show from 1983 thru 1987; - Vice-President of the Air Show Foundation; - Member of the Advisory Committee at Ohio University - Aviation Department; * > > > * - Executive member of the American Association of Airport Executives; > * > > *On October 13, 1991 Robert retired after 42 years of dedicated service > from the county. In tribute, the Board of Cuyahoga County Commissioners > dedicated his name to Cuyahoga County Airport which is now also known as > ROBERT D. SHEA FIELD.* > Please contact me offline. Thanks Ernie ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 06:13:32 AM PST US From: Ernest Martinez Subject: Yak-List: Re: Missing Man for my Father in Law Forgot to add.. the date of the ceremony will be Mon Aug 14th in the AM. On Mon, Jul 17, 2017 at 9:11 AM, Ernest Martinez wrote: > I'm reaching out to you all in the Cleveland Ohio area. My father in Law > Robert D. Shea passed away recently and we will be having a ceremony at > KCGF which is named after him. > > I would mean a lot to the family if we could get a missing man over the > field during the ceremony. His Obit is below. > > *Robert D. Shea, 93, died Saturday, June 14, 2017 in Ocala, Fl. surrounded >> by family. * >> >> *He leaves behind his 4 children Robert Jr, John, Mary and Tom.* >> >> * Born in Cleveland, son of Margarite (Mitchell) and Patrick Shea, he was >> a longtime resident of Gates Mills, OH * >> >> * He served as an Army Air Corps pilot during WWII and went on to >> graduate from Ohio University in 1948. After the war he dedicated his life >> to aviation, first as a Flight Instructor in the Air Force reserve from >> 1946-1948 and in 1949 opened the Cuyahoga County Airport and served as >> airport manager for 42 years. * >> >> *In 1963 Robert was the Recipient of the Air Force Association Aero Space >> Award and 1990 Recipient of the American Association of Airport Managers >> Distinguished Service Award. He was beloved member of the QB Society for 40 >> years. * >> > > * He continued to serve the aviation community as:* > >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> * - President of the Ohio Airport Managers Association from 1976 thru > 1977 - President of the Cleveland National Air Show from 1983 thru 1987; - > Vice-President of the Air Show Foundation; - Member of the Advisory > Committee at Ohio University - Aviation Department; * >> >> >> >> >> * - Executive member of the American Association of Airport Executives; >> * >> >> *On October 13, 1991 Robert retired after 42 years of dedicated service >> from the county. In tribute, the Board of Cuyahoga County Commissioners >> dedicated his name to Cuyahoga County Airport which is now also known as >> ROBERT D. SHEA FIELD.* >> > Please contact me offline. > > Thanks > > Ernie > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 09:47:15 AM PST US From: "Bitterlich, Mark G CIV NAVAIR, WD" Subject: Yak-List: Re: Battery Charging CJ-6 (in this case Yak's) To add to what Chris said: On all of the YAK aircraft I have worked on, the electrical junction boxes are very close to identical. The way they operate is pretty simple as regards power, and this will answer your question in more detail. In the cockpit, the Master Power Switch has three positions. Up is battery power. Middle is OFF. Down is Ground Power. This switch controls TWO identical relays in the main electrical panel, one of which connects battery power to the main electrical bus, and one that connects external power to the main electrical bus. This is an "either/or" situation, as it is wired, meaning you cannot connect external power to the aircraft and have it charge the battery. To the electrical guru's out there, the fact that these two relays are identical is important to know. They tend to fail now and then, and when that happens to the one that connects the battery to the aircrafts electrical bus, you will lose all electrical power, but it can be insidious. If this relay fails in flight, the generator will pick up the load, and you will never really know it happened. As soon as you bring the engine to idle, you will lose all electrical power for the aircraft, run the engine back up and you will get power back again. The trick is this, since the ground power relay is exactly the same, you carry a spare with you at all times! You can just switch them, and you're back in business. The down side is that this electrical panel is difficult to get to and work on and in the long run it is usually easier to just remove the complete panel and work on it outside of the aircraft. Going back to charging the battery, yes ... the external power relay could be re-wired so that when you connected a charger to the external power connector, it would close the external power relay and instead of powering the aircraft, would send the power directly to the battery for charging. Wiring it like that would keep battery power off the external power connector unless you had the charger attached. However, the danger to that approach is that if someone connected "true external high current power" to that connector, you could end up having unlimited charging current going to your battery, which would not only ruin them, but also would gas them and possibly split the case. This could end up being an example of what Chris was talking about! Very much less than good. In the long run I'd advise against that method, it's an accident waiting to happen, which I would guess is why the original design did not allow it. In my experience the Russians did everything for a reason, usually very good ones. I did see a neat trick done by the previous owner of my SM1019. He took the excellent "Battery Minder" brand of battery charger, and actually mounted it in the battery compartment semi-permanently. He then wired in a permanent 115 VAC female plug (with rubber cover) directly through the aircraft. Yes, he cut a round hole where you can take a 115 VAC extension cord, remove the cover on the aircraft, and then plug the 115 VAC extension cord right into the aircraft! The Battery Minder then gets powered up and charges your battery. I think that was a brilliant idea actually, and I wish I had thought of it! Lastly, I agree with Chris when charging batteries "in situ" but with a Battery Minder properly connected, it checks battery temperature plus controls charging current plus pulses the battery after charging with a 3 MHz pulse extending the life of the plates, so to a large degree, safety is in the design. Mark -----Original Message----- From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Looigi Sent: Sunday, July 16, 2017 6:45 PM Subject: [Non-DoD Source] Yak-List: Re: Battery Charging CJ-6 Hi there, I can't speak for the CJ, but on the Yak.... No. The aircraft can take power from the Battery OR the ground power socket. this would imply that you can't poke power back the other way from the ground power socket to the battery. You could possibly put a separate charging plug hot wired to the battery, but for my money I would just drop the hatch and connect directly to the battery. I get nervous charging batteries in situ.... better have them where you can see them and with a bit of ventilation. I know they are charged in the air in their enclosure, but with a system designed for that purpose. I have seen the results of an overcharged battery on a charger and believe me when I tell you that you would want that as far away from your plane as possible! My two cents, Chris Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=471074#471074 ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 12:14:33 PM PST US From: "Dr. Herbert Coussons" Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: Battery Charging CJ-6 (in this case Yak's) I agree w Mark on the top quality battery minder. I would charge in vivo (Physician) After owning turboprops and having friends w jets, The very expensive batteries will list 2-3x longer with a battery minder. I would not mount the battery minder in the plane though. It comes with a pigtail that can attached to the battery and run to a convenient access point. Be sure to get 12v or 28v as it may apply. The other difference in models is amperage. If I recall they come in 2A and 8A. If the batteries are healthy to begin with I believe the 2A is sufficient. On the other hand, I have wired a 115 ac male mounted on the back of the cowl louvers on my TW to plug in the heater pads on the engine and oil tank. Herb > On Jul 17, 2017, at 11:46 AM, Bitterlich, Mark G CIV NAVAIR, WD wrote: > > > To add to what Chris said: > > On all of the YAK aircraft I have worked on, the electrical junction boxes are very close to identical. The way they operate is pretty simple as regards power, and this will answer your question in more detail. > > In the cockpit, the Master Power Switch has three positions. Up is battery power. Middle is OFF. Down is Ground Power. This switch controls TWO identical relays in the main electrical panel, one of which connects battery power to the main electrical bus, and one that connects external power to the main electrical bus. This is an "either/or" situation, as it is wired, meaning you cannot connect external power to the aircraft and have it charge the battery. > > To the electrical guru's out there, the fact that these two relays are identical is important to know. They tend to fail now and then, and when that happens to the one that connects the battery to the aircrafts electrical bus, you will lose all electrical power, but it can be insidious. If this relay fails in flight, the generator will pick up the load, and you will never really know it happened. As soon as you bring the engine to idle, you will lose all electrical power for the aircraft, run the engine back up and you will get power back again. The trick is this, since the ground power relay is exactly the same, you carry a spare with you at all times! You can just switch them, and you're back in business. The down side is that this electrical panel is difficult to get to and work on and in the long run it is usually easier to just remove the complete panel and work on it outside of the aircraft. > > Going back to charging the battery, yes ... the external power relay could be re-wired so that when you connected a charger to the external power connector, it would close the external power relay and instead of powering the aircraft, would send the power directly to the battery for charging. Wiring it like that would keep battery power off the external power connector unless you had the charger attached. However, the danger to that approach is that if someone connected "true external high current power" to that connector, you could end up having unlimited charging current going to your battery, which would not only ruin them, but also would gas them and possibly split the case. This could end up being an example of what Chris was talking about! Very much less than good. > > In the long run I'd advise against that method, it's an accident waiting to happen, which I would guess is why the original design did not allow it. In my experience the Russians did everything for a reason, usually very good ones. > > I did see a neat trick done by the previous owner of my SM1019. He took the excellent "Battery Minder" brand of battery charger, and actually mounted it in the battery compartment semi-permanently. He then wired in a permanent 115 VAC female plug (with rubber cover) directly through the aircraft. Yes, he cut a round hole where you can take a 115 VAC extension cord, remove the cover on the aircraft, and then plug the 115 VAC extension cord right into the aircraft! The Battery Minder then gets powered up and charges your battery. I think that was a brilliant idea actually, and I wish I had thought of it! > > Lastly, I agree with Chris when charging batteries "in situ" but with a Battery Minder properly connected, it checks battery temperature plus controls charging current plus pulses the battery after charging with a 3 MHz pulse extending the life of the plates, so to a large degree, safety is in the design. > > Mark > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Looigi > Sent: Sunday, July 16, 2017 6:45 PM > To: yak-list@matronics.com > Subject: [Non-DoD Source] Yak-List: Re: Battery Charging CJ-6 > > > Hi there, > > I can't speak for the CJ, but on the Yak.... No. > > The aircraft can take power from the Battery OR the ground power socket. this would imply that you can't poke power back the other way from the ground power socket to the battery. > > You could possibly put a separate charging plug hot wired to the battery, but for my money I would just drop the hatch and connect directly to the battery. I get nervous charging batteries in situ.... better have them where you can see them and with a bit of ventilation. I know they are charged in the air in their enclosure, but with a system designed for that purpose. I have seen the results of an overcharged battery on a charger and believe me when I tell you that you would want that as far away from your plane as possible! > > My two cents, > Chris > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=471074#471074 > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message yak-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Yak-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/yak-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/yak-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.