Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:46 AM - Cj6 lift off without jacks (airmanv2)
2. 01:14 AM - Cj6 lift off without jacks (airmanv2)
3. 01:26 AM - Re: Cj6 lift off without jacks (Jan Mevis)
4. 03:48 AM - Re: Cj6 lift off without jacks (Justin Drafts)
5. 04:28 AM - Re: Cj6 lift off without jacks (A. Dennis Savarese)
6. 08:07 AM - Re: Cj6 lift off without jacks (Greg Wrobel)
7. 08:31 AM - Re: Cj6 lift off without jacks (Greg Wrobel)
8. 08:48 AM - Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: Cj6 lift off without jacks (Bitterlich, Mark G CIV NAVAIR, WD)
9. 11:29 AM - Re: Cj6 lift off without jacks (Walter Lannon)
10. 02:45 PM - Re: gear retraction problem (Dan Payne)
11. 06:39 PM - Re: gear retraction problem (Walter Lannon)
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| Subject: | Cj6 lift off without jacks |
Hi every body,
always with my gear retraction problem.
Looking for advices to lift the cj6 without the special jacks.
is it ok to get a small crane and tide a rope to engine mount, putting the back
of the plane on a drum ???
thank you for help
Bruno
--------
Fly safe
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=472026#472026
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| Subject: | Cj6 lift off without jacks |
Hi every body,
always with my gear retraction problem.
Looking for advices to lift the cj6 without the special jacks.
is it ok to get a small crane and tide a rope to engine mount, putting the back
of the plane on a drum ???
thank you for help
Bruno
--------
Fly safe
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=472027#472027
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| Subject: | Re: Cj6 lift off without jacks |
The airplane structure will be damaged if you do that.
Theres a good reason why you need jacks to lift the plane off the ground:
they support the plane at the wings.
Try and find some jacks, they are not that expensive and you can use them
for your annual inspection or exactly for this kind of issues.
Only my 2 cents,
Jan
On 21/08/2017, 10:13, "airmanv2" <owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com on
behalf of bruno.blanchard2@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>Hi every body,
>always with my gear retraction problem.
>Looking for advices to lift the cj6 without the special jacks.
>is it ok to get a small crane and tide a rope to engine mount, putting
>the back of the plane on a drum ???
>thank you for help
>Bruno
>
>--------
>Fly safe
>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=472027#472027
>
>
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| Subject: | Re: Cj6 lift off without jacks |
Oh wow, I would find some good jacks and tail stand.
This is what the engineers originally intended for lifting the aircraft and
properly distributing its weight. Anything else and I think you would put
the wrong bending stresses throughout the airframe. Better safe than sorry.
*My* thoughts...
Justin
On Aug 21, 2017 3:49 AM, "airmanv2" <bruno.blanchard2@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Hi every body,
> always with my gear retraction problem.
> Looking for advices to lift the cj6 without the special jacks.
> is it ok to get a small crane and tide a rope to engine mount, putting the
> back of the plane on a drum ???
> thank you for help
> Bruno
>
> --------
> Fly safe
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=472026#472026
>
>
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| Subject: | Re: Cj6 lift off without jacks |
There are 4 jacks needed to jack the CJ properly, and all 4 should be used
when jacking the airplane.=C2- Not 3...all 4.=C2- Nose, Tail and two wi
ng jacks.=C2-=C2- The wing jacks must allow for the gear doors to clear
the jacks when retracting the gear.=C2- Also the wing jacks must be desi
gned to properly support the aircraft because with the gear doors having to
clear the jacks, there will be an offset needed at the top of the jack to
fit into the jack point socket in the wing.=C2-=C2- That means the wing
jack weight distribution is not directly below the jack point.=C2- You d
efinitely do not want the airplane "leaning" or back on the wing jacks when
the airplane is raised off the ground.=C2- Doug Sapp probably has photos
of both the original Chinese jacks or of the specialty jacks he designed a
nd sold for the CJ.=C2- You may be able duplicate them. =C2-
The nose jack, which cradles the bottom of the engine around the rocker box
covers on cylinders 4, 5, 6, and 7, keeps the nose from tipping over.=C2
- The tail stand is also required because the CJ, unlike the Yak 52, is b
alanced fore and aft at the wing jack points.=C2-=C2- (On the Yak 52, t
he jack points are well aft of the main spar and thus well aft of the CG, m
aking the Yak 52 extremely nose heavy) =C2- On the CJ, if you did not hav
e the tail stand and were to step onto the left wing to do a gear retractio
n test, the tail of the CJ would immediately go right to the ground.
My recommendation, and I concur 100% with what others have said, is to inve
st in a PROPER set of jacks for the CJ.=C2- Don't be "penny wise and poun
d foolish" because it can cause you a lot of grief if you use the wrong jac
ks.Dennis
From: Justin Drafts <draftsjust417@gmail.com>
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, August 21, 2017 6:49 AM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Cj6 lift off without jacks
Oh wow, I would find some good jacks and tail stand.
This is what the engineers originally intended for lifting the aircraft and
properly distributing its weight. Anything else and I think you would put
the wrong bending stresses throughout the airframe. Better safe than sorry.
My thoughts...
Justin
On Aug 21, 2017 3:49 AM, "airmanv2" <bruno.blanchard2@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi every body,
always with my gear retraction problem.
Looking for advices to lift the cj6 without the special jacks.
is it ok to get a small crane and tide a rope to engine mount, putting the
back of the plane on a drum ???
thank you for help
Bruno
--------
Fly safe
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/ viewtopic.php?p=472026#472026
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| Subject: | Re: Cj6 lift off without jacks |
Bruno, Please, Please, Please read everything everyone is telling you.
Jacking the CJ improperly can cause you more trouble and grief than you
want to experience!!! Things like the airplane falling off the jacks and
going through the wings, or raising the gear and having the Airplane fall
off the jacks ending up on the floor! My first experience was two good
Jack's with
On Aug 21, 2017 6:30 AM, "A. Dennis Savarese" <dsavarese0812@bellsouth.net>
wrote:
> There are 4 jacks needed to jack the CJ properly, and all 4 should be used
> when jacking the airplane. Not 3...all 4. Nose, Tail and two wing
> jacks. The wing jacks must allow for the gear doors to clear the jacks
> when retracting the gear. Also the wing jacks must be designed to properly
> support the aircraft because with the gear doors having to clear the jacks,
> there will be an offset needed at the top of the jack to fit into the jack
> point socket in the wing. That means the wing jack weight distribution is
> not directly below the jack point. You definitely do not want the airplane
> "leaning" or back on the wing jacks when the airplane is raised off the
> ground. Doug Sapp probably has photos of both the original Chinese jacks
> or of the specialty jacks he designed and sold for the CJ. You may be able
> duplicate them.
>
> The nose jack, which cradles the bottom of the engine around the rocker
> box covers on cylinders 4, 5, 6, and 7, keeps the nose from tipping over.
> The tail stand is also required because the CJ, unlike the Yak 52, is
> balanced fore and aft at the wing jack points. (On the Yak 52, the jack
> points are well aft of the main spar and thus well aft of the CG, making
> the Yak 52 extremely nose heavy) On the CJ, if you did not have the tail
> stand and were to step onto the left wing to do a gear retraction test, the
> tail of the CJ would immediately go right to the ground.
>
> My recommendation, and I concur 100% with what others have said, is to
> invest in a PROPER set of jacks for the CJ. Don't be "penny wise and pound
> foolish" because it can cause you a lot of grief if you use the wrong jacks.
> Dennis
>
>
> ------------------------------
> *From:* Justin Drafts <draftsjust417@gmail.com>
> *To:* yak-list@matronics.com
> *Sent:* Monday, August 21, 2017 6:49 AM
> *Subject:* Re: Yak-List: Cj6 lift off without jacks
>
> Oh wow, I would find some good jacks and tail stand.
> This is what the engineers originally intended for lifting the aircraft
> and properly distributing its weight. Anything else and I think you would
> put the wrong bending stresses throughout the airframe. Better safe than
> sorry.
> *My* thoughts...
> Justin
>
> On Aug 21, 2017 3:49 AM, "airmanv2" <bruno.blanchard2@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> Hi every body,
> always with my gear retraction problem.
> Looking for advices to lift the cj6 without the special jacks.
> is it ok to get a small crane and tide a rope to engine mount, putting the
> back of the plane on a drum ???
> thank you for help
> Bruno
>
> --------
> Fly safe
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/ viewtopic.php?p=472026#472026
> <http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=472026#472026>
>
>
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| Subject: | Re: Cj6 lift off without jacks |
Sorry, somehow a partial message was sent. To continue......... I had two
good Jack's but the off sets were longer than necessary. I used a weighed
tail stand and with the gear down the aircraft tipped backwards and fell
off the jacks. Fortunately nothing was damaged. I have redesigned my Jacks,
tail stand AND added the nose stand. It's rock solid. If you have never
experienced a gear retraction and especially an emmergecy extension, it can
be quite violent especially if someone has removed the restrictors in your
air lines over the years. Get good jacks AND both stands!!!!!!!
On Aug 21, 2017 10:07 AM, "Greg Wrobel" <clouddog22@gmail.com> wrote:
Bruno, Please, Please, Please read everything everyone is telling you.
Jacking the CJ improperly can cause you more trouble and grief than you
want to experience!!! Things like the airplane falling off the jacks and
going through the wings, or raising the gear and having the Airplane fall
off the jacks ending up on the floor! My first experience was two good
Jack's with
On Aug 21, 2017 6:30 AM, "A. Dennis Savarese" <dsavarese0812@bellsouth.net>
wrote:
> There are 4 jacks needed to jack the CJ properly, and all 4 should be used
> when jacking the airplane. Not 3...all 4. Nose, Tail and two wing
> jacks. The wing jacks must allow for the gear doors to clear the jacks
> when retracting the gear. Also the wing jacks must be designed to properly
> support the aircraft because with the gear doors having to clear the jacks,
> there will be an offset needed at the top of the jack to fit into the jack
> point socket in the wing. That means the wing jack weight distribution is
> not directly below the jack point. You definitely do not want the airplane
> "leaning" or back on the wing jacks when the airplane is raised off the
> ground. Doug Sapp probably has photos of both the original Chinese jacks
> or of the specialty jacks he designed and sold for the CJ. You may be able
> duplicate them.
>
> The nose jack, which cradles the bottom of the engine around the rocker
> box covers on cylinders 4, 5, 6, and 7, keeps the nose from tipping over.
> The tail stand is also required because the CJ, unlike the Yak 52, is
> balanced fore and aft at the wing jack points. (On the Yak 52, the jack
> points are well aft of the main spar and thus well aft of the CG, making
> the Yak 52 extremely nose heavy) On the CJ, if you did not have the tail
> stand and were to step onto the left wing to do a gear retraction test, the
> tail of the CJ would immediately go right to the ground.
>
> My recommendation, and I concur 100% with what others have said, is to
> invest in a PROPER set of jacks for the CJ. Don't be "penny wise and pound
> foolish" because it can cause you a lot of grief if you use the wrong jacks.
> Dennis
>
>
> ------------------------------
> *From:* Justin Drafts <draftsjust417@gmail.com>
> *To:* yak-list@matronics.com
> *Sent:* Monday, August 21, 2017 6:49 AM
> *Subject:* Re: Yak-List: Cj6 lift off without jacks
>
> Oh wow, I would find some good jacks and tail stand.
> This is what the engineers originally intended for lifting the aircraft
> and properly distributing its weight. Anything else and I think you would
> put the wrong bending stresses throughout the airframe. Better safe than
> sorry.
> *My* thoughts...
> Justin
>
> On Aug 21, 2017 3:49 AM, "airmanv2" <bruno.blanchard2@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> Hi every body,
> always with my gear retraction problem.
> Looking for advices to lift the cj6 without the special jacks.
> is it ok to get a small crane and tide a rope to engine mount, putting the
> back of the plane on a drum ???
> thank you for help
> Bruno
>
> --------
> Fly safe
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/ viewtopic.php?p=472026#472026
> <http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=472026#472026>
>
>
> ==== ============================== =
> List" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/
> Navigator?Yak-List
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> eferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com
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> -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
> rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/ contribution
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>
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Cj6 lift off without jacks |
I guess no one else is going to say it, so I might as well.
Trying to get the landing gear to come down multiple times is perfectly acceptable.
Trying the same thing to get it to go up....... isn't.
Mark
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Greg Wrobel
Sent: Monday, August 21, 2017 11:31 AM
Subject: [Non-DoD Source] Re: Yak-List: Cj6 lift off without jacks
Sorry, somehow a partial message was sent. To continue......... I had two good
Jack's but the off sets were longer than necessary. I used a weighed tail stand
and with the gear down the aircraft tipped backwards and fell off the jacks.
Fortunately nothing was damaged. I have redesigned my Jacks, tail stand AND
added the nose stand. It's rock solid. If you have never experienced a gear retraction
and especially an emmergecy extension, it can be quite violent especially
if someone has removed the restrictors in your air lines over the years.
Get good jacks AND both stands!!!!!!!
On Aug 21, 2017 10:07 AM, "Greg Wrobel" <clouddog22@gmail.com> wrote:
Bruno, Please, Please, Please read everything everyone is telling you.
Jacking the CJ improperly can cause you more trouble and grief than you want
to experience!!! Things like the airplane falling off the jacks and going through
the wings, or raising the gear and having the Airplane fall off the jacks
ending up on the floor! My first experience was two good Jack's with
On Aug 21, 2017 6:30 AM, "A. Dennis Savarese" <dsavarese0812@bellsouth.net>
wrote:
There are 4 jacks needed to jack the CJ properly, and all 4 should
be used when jacking the airplane. Not 3...all 4. Nose, Tail and two wing
jacks. The wing jacks must allow for the gear doors to clear the jacks when
retracting the gear. Also the wing jacks must be designed to properly support
the aircraft because with the gear doors having to clear the jacks, there will
be an offset needed at the top of the jack to fit into the jack point socket
in the wing. That means the wing jack weight distribution is not directly
below the jack point. You definitely do not want the airplane "leaning" or back
on the wing jacks when the airplane is raised off the ground. Doug Sapp probably
has photos of both the original Chinese jacks or of the specialty jacks
he designed and sold for the CJ. You may be able duplicate them.
The nose jack, which cradles the bottom of the engine around the
rocker box covers on cylinders 4, 5, 6, and 7, keeps the nose from tipping over.
The tail stand is also required because the CJ, unlike the Yak 52, is balanced
fore and aft at the wing jack points. (On the Yak 52, the jack points
are well aft of the main spar and thus well aft of the CG, making the Yak 52
extremely nose heavy) On the CJ, if you did not have the tail stand and were
to step onto the left wing to do a gear retraction test, the tail of the CJ would
immediately go right to the ground.
My recommendation, and I concur 100% with what others have said,
is to invest in a PROPER set of jacks for the CJ. Don't be "penny wise and
pound foolish" because it can cause you a lot of grief if you use the wrong jacks.
Dennis
________________________________
From: Justin Drafts <draftsjust417@gmail.com>
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, August 21, 2017 6:49 AM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Cj6 lift off without jacks
Oh wow, I would find some good jacks and tail stand.
This is what the engineers originally intended for lifting the
aircraft and properly distributing its weight. Anything else and I think you would
put the wrong bending stresses throughout the airframe. Better safe than
sorry.
My thoughts...
Justin
On Aug 21, 2017 3:49 AM, "airmanv2" <bruno.blanchard2@gmail.com>
wrote:
Hi every body,
always with my gear retraction problem.
Looking for advices to lift the cj6 without the special
jacks.
is it ok to get a small crane and tide a rope to engine
mount, putting the back of the plane on a drum ???
thank you for help
Bruno
--------
Fly safe
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/ viewtopic.php?p=472026#472026 <http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=472026#472026>
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Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Cj6 lift off without jacks |
For routine maintenance purposes using the original Chinese equipment only
the two jacks and the tail support are required.
The tail support is designed to entrap the tail skid and provides hooks for
the attachment of 3 50 lb. sandbags which are absolutely necessary. The
other two supports (engine and rear fuselage) are meant for more extensive
service/repair etc.
The emergency gear down test can be done simply, quietly and safely by sele
ctively balancing down air against system up air (make that < 20 Atm.). Th
is can be done with a loss of emerg. air < 5 Atm. Since I keep my emerg.
tank charged with N2 that is important.
Walt
From: Greg Wrobel
Sent: Monday, August 21, 2017 8:07 AM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Cj6 lift off without jacks
Bruno, Please, Please, Please read everything everyone is telling you. Jac
king the CJ improperly can cause you more trouble and grief than you want t
o experience!!! Things like the airplane falling off the jacks and going th
rough the wings, or raising the gear and having the Airplane fall off the j
acks ending up on the floor! My first experience was two good Jack's with
On Aug 21, 2017 6:30 AM, "A. Dennis Savarese" <dsavarese0812@bellsouth.net>
wrote:
There are 4 jacks needed to jack the CJ properly, and all 4 should be use
d when jacking the airplane. Not 3...all 4. Nose, Tail and two wing jacks
=2E The wing jacks must allow for the gear doors to clear the jacks when
retracting the gear. Also the wing jacks must be designed to properly supp
ort the aircraft because with the gear doors having to clear the jacks, the
re will be an offset needed at the top of the jack to fit into the jack poi
nt socket in the wing. That means the wing jack weight distribution is no
t directly below the jack point. You definitely do not want the airplane "
leaning" or back on the wing jacks when the airplane is raised off the grou
nd. Doug Sapp probably has photos of both the original Chinese jacks or of
the specialty jacks he designed and sold for the CJ. You may be able dupl
icate them.
The nose jack, which cradles the bottom of the engine around the rocker b
ox covers on cylinders 4, 5, 6, and 7, keeps the nose from tipping over. T
he tail stand is also required because the CJ, unlike the Yak 52, is balanc
ed fore and aft at the wing jack points. (On the Yak 52, the jack points
are well aft of the main spar and thus well aft of the CG, making the Yak 5
2 extremely nose heavy) On the CJ, if you did not have the tail stand and
were to step onto the left wing to do a gear retraction test, the tail of
the CJ would immediately go right to the ground.
My recommendation, and I concur 100% with what others have said, is to in
vest in a PROPER set of jacks for the CJ. Don't be "penny wise and pound f
oolish" because it can cause you a lot of grief if you use the wrong jacks.
Dennis
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
---
From: Justin Drafts <draftsjust417@gmail.com>
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, August 21, 2017 6:49 AM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Cj6 lift off without jacks
Oh wow, I would find some good jacks and tail stand.
This is what the engineers originally intended for lifting the aircraft a
nd properly distributing its weight. Anything else and I think you would pu
t the wrong bending stresses throughout the airframe. Better safe than sorr
y.
My thoughts...
Justin
On Aug 21, 2017 3:49 AM, "airmanv2" <bruno.blanchard2@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi every body,
always with my gear retraction problem.
Looking for advices to lift the cj6 without the special jacks.
is it ok to get a small crane and tide a rope to engine mount, putting
the back of the plane on a drum ???
thank you for help
Bruno
--------
Fly safe
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/ viewtopic.php?p=472026#472026
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Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: gear retraction problem |
Call me
423-682-1408
-Dan
Sent from my iPhone
> On Aug 20, 2017, at 12:00 AM, airmanv2 <bruno.blanchard2@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> Hello
>
>
> yesterday I've intended to make a fly and clean the plane in preparation for
Saturday airshow . ...
>
> I had a major problem with the gear: just after take off it was not possible
to retract.....
> Move up the gear handle and only the left green light switch off, and no red
light switch on. the 3 external red gear indicators stay out....
> so i moved down the handle and i got the " greens.
> the air pressure was enough at 25/30 Atm.
> so i move up again the gear handle and nothing happens. 3 greens remains. So
i put the handle on down position and land again without problem.
>
> Guy on the ground reported that they saw the gear retraction non completed after
take off . for them, the main gear only move for about 30 from vertical position
before to come back at vertical position. Because of distance and position
they were unable to give information for the nose gear position .
>
> So what can be done . I can't fly any more with no gear retraction ...
>
> please help
>
> best regards
>
> Bruno
>
> --------
> Fly safe
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=471988#471988
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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| Subject: | Re: gear retraction problem |
Hi Bruno;
As Dennis and others have already suggested your problem is very likely a
check valve on the LH firewall that is leaking internally and allowing
normal operating system air pressure to pressurize the emergency system
which of course goes directly to Gear Down.
Not an unusual failure and, as Bob Schroeder noted, could be an indicator
of other moisture related problems as well.
See the attached schematic for location.
A good practice to avoid moisture related failure of course is to replace
your water filter innards on a regular basis. That periodicity will be
dependent to a large degree on relative humidity in your operating area.
Also a very good practice to check your brake system moisture trap (snot
valve) on a regular basis, preferably after every flight. If you find
moisture here your water filter servicing period is not adequate.
Walt
-----Original Message-----
From: airmanv2
Sent: Saturday, August 19, 2017 9:00 PM
Subject: Yak-List: gear retraction problem
Hello
yesterday I've intended to make a fly and clean the plane in preparation for
Saturday airshow . ...
I had a major problem with the gear: just after take off it was not possible
to retract.....
Move up the gear handle and only the left green light switch off, and no
red light switch on. the 3 external red gear indicators stay out....
so i moved down the handle and i got the " greens.
the air pressure was enough at 25/30 Atm.
so i move up again the gear handle and nothing happens. 3 greens remains. So
i put the handle on down position and land again without problem.
Guy on the ground reported that they saw the gear retraction non completed
after take off . for them, the main gear only move for about 30 from
vertical position before to come back at vertical position. Because of
distance and position they were unable to give information for the nose gear
position .
So what can be done . I can't fly any more with no gear retraction ...
please help
best regards
Bruno
--------
Fly safe
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=471988#471988
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