Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 06:02 AM - Re: Re: gear retraction problem (JON)
2. 06:21 AM - Re: Re: gear retraction problem (Pedro Cerveira Pinto)
3. 06:27 AM - Re: Re: gear retraction problem (Ernest Martinez)
4. 06:29 AM - Re: Re: gear retraction problem (A. Dennis Savarese)
5. 06:56 AM - Re: Re: gear retraction problem (Jean-Philippe Martel)
6. 08:08 AM - Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: Re: gear retraction problem (Didier Blouzard)
7. 10:19 AM - Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: Re: gear retraction problem (Bitterlich, Mark G CIV NAVAIR, WD)
8. 10:57 AM - [Non-DoD Source] Re: gear retraction problem (Looigi)
9. 11:07 AM - Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: Re: gear retraction problem (Jan Mevis)
10. 11:24 AM - Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: Re: gear retraction problem (Hans Oortman)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: gear retraction problem |
Sounds like the same issue I had... turned out to be main gear actuators.
=C2- Doug Sapp rebuilt them and no problems since.=C2- JB
----- Original Message -----
From: "doug sapp" <dougsappllc@gmail.com>
Sent: Wednesday, August 23, 2017 2:57:55 PM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: gear retraction problem
Bruno,
The correct p/n is QSF-2A of which there are three in your aircraft, both f
lap valves and the fwd gear valve.
You are correct the QS2 is the brake differential valve in the belly.
Doug
On Wed, Aug 23, 2017 at 12:38 PM, airmanv2 < bruno.blanchard2@gmail.com > w
rote:
Hello again,
so I've made a flight this evening and the same problem appears again: afte
r take off the gear do not retract.., visualy from outside, the main gear m
oved about 30=C2=B0 from vertical position. Gear handle was positionned dow
n , 3 greens and land safely .
yesterday evening when acft was raised, I've done 4 test up/down and its lo
ok like good. pressure at the beginning was 25 and at the 4th 12 remaining
.`
I do not test the emergency extension.
its is not possible to move the rear gear handle as the UK CAA blocked it a
s also for the Flaps rear handle.. (Im under UK registration)
this morning i refiled the air bottle at 45atm before this evening start up
, i took off with 35 and landed also with about 35 atm
the QS2 valve isn't for the brake repartition?
thanks for help
Bruno
--------
Fly safe
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http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=472104#472104
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| Subject: | Re: gear retraction problem |
Hi again Bruno.
As I anticipated you have a leak in the gear handle valve. Dismount and
replace the O Ring inside. Simple as that.
Regards
Em 23/08/2017 07:41, "airmanv2" <bruno.blanchard2@gmail.com> escreveu:
>
> Hi ,
> thank you for your advices.
> we raise the plane and tested the gear retraction.
> it was ok with the remaining air at 25 atm, we tested up and down 4 times
> till the air remains at about 10 atm.
> it works well that is strange.....
> i ve noticed an air leak inside the main corp of the front gear handle
> when gear up position,
> perhaps the front gear handle to replace ?
> what do you think about that Doug?
> Best regards
> Bruno
>
> --------
> Fly safe
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=472081#472081
>
>
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| Subject: | Re: gear retraction problem |
That simple huh?
On Thu, Aug 24, 2017 at 9:25 AM Pedro Cerveira Pinto <
cerveirapinto@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi again Bruno.
> As I anticipated you have a leak in the gear handle valve. Dismount and
> replace the O Ring inside. Simple as that.
> Regards
>
> Em 23/08/2017 07:41, "airmanv2" <bruno.blanchard2@gmail.com> escreveu:
>
>>
>> Hi ,
>> thank you for your advices.
>> we raise the plane and tested the gear retraction.
>> it was ok with the remaining air at 25 atm, we tested up and down 4 times
>> till the air remains at about 10 atm.
>> it works well that is strange.....
>> i ve noticed an air leak inside the main corp of the front gear handle
>> when gear up position,
>> perhaps the front gear handle to replace ?
>> what do you think about that Doug?
>> Best regards
>> Bruno
>>
>> --------
>> Fly safe
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=472081#472081
>
>
>>
>>
>>
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| Subject: | Re: gear retraction problem |
Pedro,
I'm assuming you've disassembled a gear/flap selector valve beforesince
you said to replace the O-ring?
If Bruno hasn't tested the system the way I suggested, he may be just
spinning his wheels. ie: did he do a gear retraction test with the rear
gear selector (with the front in neutral of course) and was there air
leaking from the rear gear selectorwhen he did this test? If yes, the
problem is not the front gear selector.
Dennis
A. Dennis Savarese
334-546-8182 (mobile)
www.yak-52.com
Skype - Yakguy1
On 8/24/2017 9:21 AM, Pedro Cerveira Pinto wrote:
> Hi again Bruno.
> As I anticipated you have a leak in the gear handle valve. Dismount
> and replace the O Ring inside. Simple as that.
> Regards
>
> Em 23/08/2017 07:41, "airmanv2" <bruno.blanchard2@gmail.com
> <mailto:bruno.blanchard2@gmail.com>> escreveu:
>
> <bruno.blanchard2@gmail.com <mailto:bruno.blanchard2@gmail.com>>
>
> Hi ,
> thank you for your advices.
> we raise the plane and tested the gear retraction.
> it was ok with the remaining air at 25 atm, we tested up and down
> 4 times till the air remains at about 10 atm.
> it works well that is strange.....
> i ve noticed an air leak inside the main corp of the front gear
> handle when gear up position,
> perhaps the front gear handle to replace ?
> what do you think about that Doug?
> Best regards
> Bruno
>
> --------
> Fly safe
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=472081#472081
> <http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=472081#472081>
>
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| Subject: | Re: gear retraction problem |
Hi,
The same for me on my YAK 52 in France few weeks ago. Bruno DUCREUX fixed
it the same way.
JP
Le 24 ao=C3=BBt 2017 15:08, "JON" <jblake207@comcast.net> a =C3=A9crit :
> Sounds like the same issue I had... turned out to be main gear actuators.
> Doug Sapp rebuilt them and no problems since. JB
>
> ------------------------------
> *From: *"doug sapp" <dougsappllc@gmail.com>
> *To: *yak-list@matronics.com
> *Sent: *Wednesday, August 23, 2017 2:57:55 PM
> *Subject: *Re: Yak-List: Re: gear retraction problem
>
> Bruno,
> The correct p/n is QSF-2A of which there are three in your aircraft, both
> flap valves and the fwd gear valve.
>
> You are correct the QS2 is the brake differential valve in the belly.
>
> Doug
>
> On Wed, Aug 23, 2017 at 12:38 PM, airmanv2 <bruno.blanchard2@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>>
>> Hello again,
>>
>> so I've made a flight this evening and the same problem appears again:
>> after take off the gear do not retract.., visualy from outside, the main
>> gear moved about 30=C2=B0 from vertical position. Gear handle was positi
onned
>> down , 3 greens and land safely .
>> yesterday evening when acft was raised, I've done 4 test up/down and its
>> look like good. pressure at the beginning was 25 and at the 4th 12
>> remaining .`
>> I do not test the emergency extension.
>> its is not possible to move the rear gear handle as the UK CAA blocked i
t
>> as also for the Flaps rear handle.. (Im under UK registration)
>> this morning i refiled the air bottle at 45atm before this evening start
>> up, i took off with 35 and landed also with about 35 atm
>> the QS2 valve isn't for the brake repartition?
>> thanks for help
>> Bruno
>>
>> --------
>> Fly safe
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=472104#472104
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
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| Subject: | Re: gear retraction problem |
This judgment is a little rude Mark
When we find a problem we try to solve it the best as we can. It happens
that we make small or big mistakes but it is rude to say "careless and
reckless"
Anyway nobody was hurt apparently thanks god and in the future I'm sure
Bruno will read more patiently and carrefully the good (or less good!!!)
advices of the list.
Thanks to all for your patient help care and support to us ignorant little
pilots.
Didier
2017-08-23 20:44 GMT+02:00 Bitterlich, Mark G CIV NAVAIR, WD <
mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>:
> mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
>
> This was a good way to hurt yourself, and your friends, and to impose
> stress loads in places that were never designed for same.
>
> This was ignoring every bit of advice from every expert on this list that
> took the time to answer.
>
> This was not making lemonade. This was careless and reckless.
>
> Good Day.
>
> Mark Bitterlich
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@
> matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Geipel
> Sent: Wednesday, August 23, 2017 1:22 PM
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Subject: [Non-DoD Source] Re: Yak-List: Re: gear retraction problem
>
> when u have lemons u make lemonade. We do the best we can with what we
> have.
> Creative.
>
> On Aug 24, 2017, at 01:53, doug sapp <dougsappllc@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> What do I think??? I think you seem to be a person willing to
> take risks which are way out of proportion to the reward. However that
> being said, it would appear that you are in need of replacing your QSF-2A
> valve---OR---- you have a gear actuator leaking and that air is venting o
ut
> of your front gear valve. Dennis asks good questions, answers will help
> sort this all out.
>
> Doug
>
>
> <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_
> source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail&utm_term=i
con>
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>
>
> On Tue, Aug 22, 2017 at 11:37 PM, airmanv2 <
> bruno.blanchard2@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> bruno.blanchard2@gmail.com>
>
> Hi ,
> thank you for your advices.
> we raise the plane and tested the gear retraction.
> it was ok with the remaining air at 25 atm, we tested up
> and down 4 times till the air remains at about 10 atm.
> it works well that is strange.....
> i ve noticed an air leak inside the main corp of the fron
t
> gear handle when gear up position,
> perhaps the front gear handle to replace ?
> what do you think about that Doug?
> Best regards
> Bruno
>
> --------
> Fly safe
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=472081#4720
81
> <http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=472081#472081>
>
>
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| Subject: | Re: gear retraction problem |
Ok Didier..... since you brought it up.....
Let me be perfectly clear. Aircraft Maintenance has been my profession for over
40 years. How many others reading this email can say that? So let me be
specific and hopefully educational. And saying this, I expect negative feedback
by the usual folks who demand political correctness at every step.
This gentleman was correctly advised by a number of experts to use proper equipment,
namely proper aircraft jacks, in order to cycle the landing gear. In fact
one person actually begged him to do that, because he was worried the gent
might try to make up some method using whatever he had at hand, without any experience
and/or prior knowledge. All good advice. This gent then ignored that
advice.
1. The engine mount is not designed or stressed to be used as a lifting point
for raising the aircraft. However, it was used for that function in this lift.
Just because something does not snap and break when you put stress on it,
does not mean it has not been damaged. So now there is the possibility of unknown
damage to a critical piece of hardware. Not LIKELY, but entirely possible.
2. The aircraft was lifted using the actual structure of the building as a method
to support the weight. There were no load tests or engineering reviews done
on the structural condition of the hangar roof, as was pointed out by someone
else on this list. The hangar roof is not something that is designed to be
load bearing even if made from steel. What kind of prior load tests were done
using this method? Any?
3. Straps and come-a-longs were used to attach to non-specified and non-tested
lift points. Once again to get the aircraft off the ground.
4. Once off the ground, people climbed on the aircraft, and actuated the landing
gear. Had anything failed at this point, there is a strong chance people
would have been hurt.
The fact is that in aircraft maintenance, the end never justifies the means. This
gent got away with this ad-hoc method once. I am glad he did. I do not
wish loss or injury to anyone and I am sure no one else does either.
But ask yourself this question: If any official of any aviation agency from any
country in the world saw this being done, what would they have called it and
what would they have done about it? In the United States, the aircraft owner
is actually ultimately accountable for work being performed on his aircraft.
Yes, there are many "but if's" to this statement, but ultimately it can come
down to that. Had anything failed in this effort, had anyone gotten hurt, what
would the judgement have been by the FAA?
Were the manufacture's procedures followed when performing this work?
NO.
Was proper equipment being used that had been properly load tested as called for
in the procedures?
NO.
Did the owner use a totally unauthorized procedure which put the aircraft, himself
and those around him at risk?
YES.,
All of this adds up to, and meets the definition of being "careless and reckless".
What makes it worse is that this gentleman asked about doing it first to
everyone on this list, was strongly advised not to, and then did it anyway.
After doing it, he seemed to feel pretty good about it, taking pictures and advising
others how to go about doing it. Going further still, one reader actually
classified his actions in a congratulatory sense, which of course encourages
others to ignore every bit of regulatory process and do whatever they feel
is necessary to get the results they are looking for as well. That kind of
attitude is DANGEROUS.
At the end of the day, this gent has YET to follow the exact troubleshooting steps
recommended by the foremost expert on this system found on this list-server.
Which means this aircraft is going to have to go back up into the air again,
and unless someone speaks up and says DO NOT DO THIS! I did. In no uncertain
terms. My conscience is clear.
Over the years I have spent helping others on the Yak List, I have learned to recognize
those that only use advice to get what they want, and ignore every caution
offered in the process. Thus I am now much more cautious giving it these
days as it comes with a sense of responsibility.
So Didier, my choice of words might be considered "rude" by some I fully admit.
But they are 100% accurate.
Mark
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Didier Blouzard
Sent: Thursday, August 24, 2017 11:07 AM
Subject: Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: Yak-List: Re: gear retraction problem
This judgment is a little rude Mark
When we find a problem we try to solve it the best as we can. It happens that we
make small or big mistakes but it is rude to say "careless and reckless"
Anyway nobody was hurt apparently thanks god and in the future I'm sure Bruno will
read more patiently and carrefully the good (or less good!!!) advices of the
list.
Thanks to all for your patient help care and support to us ignorant little pilots.
Didier
2017-08-23 20:44 GMT+02:00 Bitterlich, Mark G CIV NAVAIR, WD <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>:
This was a good way to hurt yourself, and your friends, and to impose stress loads
in places that were never designed for same.
This was ignoring every bit of advice from every expert on this list that took
the time to answer.
This was not making lemonade. This was careless and reckless.
Good Day.
Mark Bitterlich
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com <mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com> [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com <mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com> ] On Behalf Of Bill Geipel
Sent: Wednesday, August 23, 2017 1:22 PM
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Subject: [Non-DoD Source] Re: Yak-List: Re: gear retraction problem
when u have lemons u make lemonade. We do the best we can with what we have.
Creative.
On Aug 24, 2017, at 01:53, doug sapp <dougsappllc@gmail.com> wrote:
What do I think??? I think you seem to be a person willing to take risks
which are way out of proportion to the reward. However that being said, it
would appear that you are in need of replacing your QSF-2A valve---OR---- you
have a gear actuator leaking and that air is venting out of your front gear
valve. Dennis asks good questions, answers will help sort this all out.
Doug
<https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail&utm_term=icon <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail&utm_term=icon> > Virus-free. www.avast.com <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail&utm_term=link <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail&utm_term=link> >
On Tue, Aug 22, 2017 at 11:37 PM, airmanv2 <bruno.blanchard2@gmail.com>
wrote:
Hi ,
thank you for your advices.
we raise the plane and tested the gear retraction.
it was ok with the remaining air at 25 atm, we tested up and down
4 times till the air remains at about 10 atm.
it works well that is strange.....
i ve noticed an air leak inside the main corp of the front gear
handle when gear up position,
perhaps the front gear handle to replace ?
what do you think about that Doug?
Best regards
Bruno
--------
Fly safe
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=472081#472081 <http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=472081#472081> <http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=472081#472081 <http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=472081#472081> >
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____________________________
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Directeur Gnral DATEXIS
Portable : +33 6 51 84 48 02
Email: didier.blouzard@gmail.com <mailto:didier.blouzard@anolistech.fr>
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| Subject: | Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: gear retraction problem |
I have been trying very hard to stay out of this debate, but I can't let the "Nobody
died so it was ok" suggestion go without comment. Mark is 100% correct
with his comments.
Like Mark, I have been fixing airplanes for a long time now, mostly in the military
and airline worlds. Like Mark I am of the opinion that this is a very good
demonstration of how not to jack an aeroplane.
The "Battle conditions, the enemy is coming" attitude is fine, when they actually
are. In this case, they weren't, and the risks taken here far outweigh the
cost of a few bottles of beer it would have probably taken to borrow a set of
suitable jacks.
I am about to make a set of jacks for my own Yak-52, and I am guessing that a set
of four jacks will cost me less than $500 NZ and a day with the welder.
Bruno, give me a few weeks to clear some other jobs out of my life and I will post
some pictures of them and a drawing..... Go and get some made. Please.
Chris
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| Subject: | Re: gear retraction problem |
Didier, I concur with this point of view of Mark.
I was horrified when I saw the pictures with the Nanchang hanging at the
wooden roof of a hangar.
A friend of mine is a military constructions engineer.
I showed him the pictures. He was amazed too (understatement).
Anyway, I hope that your friend will get the problem solved and I wish him
many safe flights.
BR,
Jan
On 24/08/2017, 19:18, "Bitterlich, Mark G CIV NAVAIR, WD"
<owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com on behalf of
mark.bitterlich@navy.mil> wrote:
><mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
>
>Ok Didier..... since you brought it up.....
>
>Let me be perfectly clear. Aircraft Maintenance has been my profession
>for over 40 years. How many others reading this email can say that?
>So let me be specific and hopefully educational. And saying this, I
>expect negative feedback by the usual folks who demand political
>correctness at every step.
>
>This gentleman was correctly advised by a number of experts to use proper
>equipment, namely proper aircraft jacks, in order to cycle the landing
>gear. In fact one person actually begged him to do that, because he was
>worried the gent might try to make up some method using whatever he had
>at hand, without any experience and/or prior knowledge. All good advice.
> This gent then ignored that advice.
>
>1. The engine mount is not designed or stressed to be used as a lifting
>point for raising the aircraft. However, it was used for that function
>in this lift. Just because something does not snap and break when you
>put stress on it, does not mean it has not been damaged. So now there is
>the possibility of unknown damage to a critical piece of hardware. Not
>LIKELY, but entirely possible.
>
>2. The aircraft was lifted using the actual structure of the building as
>a method to support the weight. There were no load tests or engineering
>reviews done on the structural condition of the hangar roof, as was
>pointed out by someone else on this list. The hangar roof is not
>something that is designed to be load bearing even if made from steel.
>What kind of prior load tests were done using this method? Any?
>
>3. Straps and come-a-longs were used to attach to non-specified and
>non-tested lift points. Once again to get the aircraft off the ground.
>
>4. Once off the ground, people climbed on the aircraft, and actuated the
>landing gear. Had anything failed at this point, there is a strong
>chance people would have been hurt.
>
>The fact is that in aircraft maintenance, the end never justifies the
>means. This gent got away with this ad-hoc method once. I am glad he
>did. I do not wish loss or injury to anyone and I am sure no one else
>does either.
>
>But ask yourself this question: If any official of any aviation agency
>from any country in the world saw this being done, what would they have
>called it and what would they have done about it? In the United States,
>the aircraft owner is actually ultimately accountable for work being
>performed on his aircraft. Yes, there are many "but if's" to this
>statement, but ultimately it can come down to that. Had anything failed
>in this effort, had anyone gotten hurt, what would the judgement have
>been by the FAA?
>
>Were the manufacture's procedures followed when performing this work?
>
>NO.
>
>Was proper equipment being used that had been properly load tested as
>called for in the procedures?
>
>NO.
>
>Did the owner use a totally unauthorized procedure which put the
>aircraft, himself and those around him at risk?
>
>YES.,
>
>All of this adds up to, and meets the definition of being "careless and
>reckless". What makes it worse is that this gentleman asked about doing
>it first to everyone on this list, was strongly advised not to, and then
>did it anyway. After doing it, he seemed to feel pretty good about it,
>taking pictures and advising others how to go about doing it. Going
>further still, one reader actually classified his actions in a
>congratulatory sense, which of course encourages others to ignore every
>bit of regulatory process and do whatever they feel is necessary to get
>the results they are looking for as well. That kind of attitude is
>DANGEROUS.
>
>At the end of the day, this gent has YET to follow the exact
>troubleshooting steps recommended by the foremost expert on this system
>found on this list-server. Which means this aircraft is going to have to
>go back up into the air again, and unless someone speaks up and says DO
>NOT DO THIS! I did. In no uncertain terms. My conscience is clear.
>
>Over the years I have spent helping others on the Yak List, I have
>learned to recognize those that only use advice to get what they want,
>and ignore every caution offered in the process. Thus I am now much more
>cautious giving it these days as it comes with a sense of responsibility.
>
>
>So Didier, my choice of words might be considered "rude" by some I fully
>admit. But they are 100% accurate.
>
>Mark
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Didier Blouzard
>Sent: Thursday, August 24, 2017 11:07 AM
>To: yak-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: Yak-List: Re: gear retraction problem
>
>This judgment is a little rude Mark
>When we find a problem we try to solve it the best as we can. It happens
>that we make small or big mistakes but it is rude to say "careless and
>reckless"
>Anyway nobody was hurt apparently thanks god and in the future I'm sure
>Bruno will read more patiently and carrefully the good (or less good!!!)
>advices of the list.
>
>
>Thanks to all for your patient help care and support to us ignorant
>little pilots.
>
>
>Didier
>
>2017-08-23 20:44 GMT+02:00 Bitterlich, Mark G CIV NAVAIR, WD
><mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>:
>
>
><mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
>
> This was a good way to hurt yourself, and your friends, and to impose
>stress loads in places that were never designed for same.
>
> This was ignoring every bit of advice from every expert on this list
>that took the time to answer.
>
> This was not making lemonade. This was careless and reckless.
>
> Good Day.
>
> Mark Bitterlich
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
><mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com>
>[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
><mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com> ] On Behalf Of Bill Geipel
> Sent: Wednesday, August 23, 2017 1:22 PM
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Subject: [Non-DoD Source] Re: Yak-List: Re: gear retraction problem
>
> when u have lemons u make lemonade. We do the best we can with what we
>have.
> Creative.
>
> On Aug 24, 2017, at 01:53, doug sapp <dougsappllc@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> What do I think??? I think you seem to be a person willing to
>take risks which are way out of proportion to the reward. However that
>being said, it would appear that you are in need of replacing your QSF-2A
>valve---OR---- you have a gear actuator leaking and that air is venting
>out of your front gear valve. Dennis asks good questions, answers will
>help sort this all out.
>
> Doug
>
>
>
>
>
><https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_camp
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><https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_camp
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>
>
> On Tue, Aug 22, 2017 at 11:37 PM, airmanv2
><bruno.blanchard2@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
><bruno.blanchard2@gmail.com>
>
> Hi ,
> thank you for your advices.
> we raise the plane and tested the gear retraction.
> it was ok with the remaining air at 25 atm, we tested up
>and down 4 times till the air remains at about 10 atm.
> it works well that is strange.....
> i ve noticed an air leak inside the main corp of the
>front gear handle when gear up position,
> perhaps the front gear handle to replace ?
> what do you think about that Doug?
> Best regards
> Bruno
>
> --------
> Fly safe
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=472081#472081
><http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=472081#472081>
><http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=472081#472081
><http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=472081#472081> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ===================================
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><http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List>
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><http://www.matronics.com/contribution>
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>--
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>____________________________
>Didier BLOUZARD
>Directeur Gnral DATEXIS
>Portable : +33 6 51 84 48 02
>Email: didier.blouzard@gmail.com <mailto:didier.blouzard@anolistech.fr>
>
>
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: gear retraction problem |
And that's the way it is! I totally agree!
Amen!
Hans Oortman
PH-YAK
Op 24-08-17 19:18, Bitterlich, Mark G CIV NAVAIR, WD
<mark.bitterlich@navy.mil> schreef:
> <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
>
> Ok Didier..... since you brought it up.....
>
> Let me be perfectly clear. Aircraft Maintenance has been my profession for
> over 40 years. How many others reading this email can say that? So let me
> be specific and hopefully educational. And saying this, I expect negative
> feedback by the usual folks who demand political correctness at every step.
>
> This gentleman was correctly advised by a number of experts to use proper
> equipment, namely proper aircraft jacks, in order to cycle the landing gear.
> In fact one person actually begged him to do that, because he was worried the
> gent might try to make up some method using whatever he had at hand, without
> any experience and/or prior knowledge. All good advice. This gent then
> ignored that advice.
>
> 1. The engine mount is not designed or stressed to be used as a lifting point
> for raising the aircraft. However, it was used for that function in this
> lift. Just because something does not snap and break when you put stress on
> it, does not mean it has not been damaged. So now there is the possibility of
> unknown damage to a critical piece of hardware. Not LIKELY, but entirely
> possible.
>
> 2. The aircraft was lifted using the actual structure of the building as a
> method to support the weight. There were no load tests or engineering reviews
> done on the structural condition of the hangar roof, as was pointed out by
> someone else on this list. The hangar roof is not something that is designed
> to be load bearing even if made from steel. What kind of prior load tests
> were done using this method? Any?
>
> 3. Straps and come-a-longs were used to attach to non-specified and
> non-tested lift points. Once again to get the aircraft off the ground.
>
> 4. Once off the ground, people climbed on the aircraft, and actuated the
> landing gear. Had anything failed at this point, there is a strong chance
> people would have been hurt.
>
> The fact is that in aircraft maintenance, the end never justifies the means.
> This gent got away with this ad-hoc method once. I am glad he did. I do not
> wish loss or injury to anyone and I am sure no one else does either.
>
> But ask yourself this question: If any official of any aviation agency from
> any country in the world saw this being done, what would they have called it
> and what would they have done about it? In the United States, the aircraft
> owner is actually ultimately accountable for work being performed on his
> aircraft. Yes, there are many "but if's" to this statement, but ultimately it
> can come down to that. Had anything failed in this effort, had anyone gotten
> hurt, what would the judgement have been by the FAA?
>
> Were the manufacture's procedures followed when performing this work?
>
> NO.
>
> Was proper equipment being used that had been properly load tested as called
> for in the procedures?
>
> NO.
>
> Did the owner use a totally unauthorized procedure which put the aircraft,
> himself and those around him at risk?
>
> YES.,
>
> All of this adds up to, and meets the definition of being "careless and
> reckless". What makes it worse is that this gentleman asked about doing it
> first to everyone on this list, was strongly advised not to, and then did it
> anyway. After doing it, he seemed to feel pretty good about it, taking
> pictures and advising others how to go about doing it. Going further still,
> one reader actually classified his actions in a congratulatory sense, which of
> course encourages others to ignore every bit of regulatory process and do
> whatever they feel is necessary to get the results they are looking for as
> well. That kind of attitude is DANGEROUS.
>
> At the end of the day, this gent has YET to follow the exact troubleshooting
> steps recommended by the foremost expert on this system found on this
> list-server. Which means this aircraft is going to have to go back up into
> the air again, and unless someone speaks up and says DO NOT DO THIS! I did.
> In no uncertain terms. My conscience is clear.
>
> Over the years I have spent helping others on the Yak List, I have learned to
> recognize those that only use advice to get what they want, and ignore every
> caution offered in the process. Thus I am now much more cautious giving it
> these days as it comes with a sense of responsibility.
>
> So Didier, my choice of words might be considered "rude" by some I fully
> admit. But they are 100% accurate.
>
> Mark
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Didier Blouzard
> Sent: Thursday, August 24, 2017 11:07 AM
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: Yak-List: Re: gear retraction problem
>
> This judgment is a little rude Mark
> When we find a problem we try to solve it the best as we can. It happens that
> we make small or big mistakes but it is rude to say "careless and reckless"
> Anyway nobody was hurt apparently thanks god and in the future I'm sure Bruno
> will read more patiently and carrefully the good (or less good!!!) advices of
> the list.
>
>
> Thanks to all for your patient help care and support to us ignorant little
> pilots.
>
>
> Didier
>
> 2017-08-23 20:44 GMT+02:00 Bitterlich, Mark G CIV NAVAIR, WD
> <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>:
>
>
> <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
>
> This was a good way to hurt yourself, and your friends, and to impose stress
> loads in places that were never designed for same.
>
> This was ignoring every bit of advice from every expert on this list that took
> the time to answer.
>
> This was not making lemonade. This was careless and reckless.
>
> Good Day.
>
> Mark Bitterlich
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
> <mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com>
> [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
> <mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com> ] On Behalf Of Bill Geipel
> Sent: Wednesday, August 23, 2017 1:22 PM
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Subject: [Non-DoD Source] Re: Yak-List: Re: gear retraction problem
>
> when u have lemons u make lemonade. We do the best we can with what we have.
> Creative.
>
> On Aug 24, 2017, at 01:53, doug sapp <dougsappllc@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> What do I think??? I think you seem to be a person willing to take
> risks which are way out of proportion to the reward. However that being said,
> it would appear that you are in need of replacing your QSF-2A valve---OR----
> you have a gear actuator leaking and that air is venting out of your front
> gear valve. Dennis asks good questions, answers will help sort this all out.
>
> Doug
>
>
>
>
> <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign
> =sig-email&utm_content=webmail&utm_term=icon
> <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign
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> =sig-email&utm_content=webmail&utm_term=link> >
>
>
> On Tue, Aug 22, 2017 at 11:37 PM, airmanv2 <bruno.blanchard2@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>
> <bruno.blanchard2@gmail.com>
>
> Hi ,
> thank you for your advices.
> we raise the plane and tested the gear retraction.
> it was ok with the remaining air at 25 atm, we tested up and
> down 4 times till the air remains at about 10 atm.
> it works well that is strange.....
> i ve noticed an air leak inside the main corp of the front gear
> handle when gear up position,
> perhaps the front gear handle to replace ?
> what do you think about that Doug?
> Best regards
> Bruno
>
> --------
> Fly safe
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=472081#472081
> <http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=472081#472081>
> <http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=472081#472081
> <http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=472081#472081> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ===================================
> List" rel="noreferrer"
> target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
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> ===================================
> FORUMS -
> eferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com
> <http://forums.matronics.com>
> ===================================
> WIKI -
> errer" target="_blank">http://wiki.matronics.com
> <http://wiki.matronics.com>
> ===================================
> b Site -
> -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
> rel="noreferrer"
> target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> <http://www.matronics.com/contribution>
> ===================================
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ==========================
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> -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
> rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> ===================================
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