Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 08:55 AM - Low Pass Engine Sputter (bmsim)
2. 09:01 AM - Re: Low Pass Engine Sputter (Ernest Martinez)
3. 09:31 AM - Re: [Non-DoD Source] Low Pass Engine Sputter (Bitterlich, Mark G CIV NAVAIR, WD)
4. 10:04 AM - Re: Low Pass Engine Sputter (L129bs)
5. 10:05 AM - Re: Low Pass Engine Sputter (L129bs)
6. 10:25 AM - Re: [Non-DoD Source] Low Pass Engine Sputter (A. Dennis Savarese)
7. 10:27 AM - Low Pass Engine Sputter (Bitterlich, Mark G CIV NAVAIR, WD)
8. 10:28 AM - Re: [Non-DoD Source] Low Pass Engine Sputter (Nigel Willson)
9. 10:33 AM - Re: Low Pass Engine Sputter (Bitterlich, Mark G CIV NAVAIR, WD)
10. 10:35 AM - Re: [Non-DoD Source] Low Pass Engine Sputter (A. Dennis Savarese)
11. 10:44 AM - Re: Low Pass Engine Sputter (Nigel Willson)
12. 10:46 AM - Re: Low Pass Engine Sputter (Hans Oortman)
13. 10:47 AM - Re: [Non-DoD Source] Low Pass Engine Sputter (Nigel Willson)
14. 10:57 AM - Re: Low Pass Engine Sputter (Nigel Willson)
15. 11:06 AM - Low Pass Engine Sputter (Bitterlich, Mark G CIV NAVAIR, WD)
16. 11:06 AM - Low Pass Engine Sputter (Bitterlich, Mark G CIV NAVAIR, WD)
17. 11:26 AM - Re: Low Pass Engine Sputter (Nigel Willson)
18. 11:26 AM - . Low Pass Engine Sputter (Bitterlich, Mark G CIV NAVAIR, WD)
19. 11:28 AM - Re: Low Pass Engine Sputter (Nigel Willson)
20. 11:41 AM - Low Pass Engine Sputter (Bitterlich, Mark G CIV NAVAIR, WD)
21. 11:45 AM - Re: . Low Pass Engine Sputter (Nigel Willson)
22. 11:56 AM - Re: Low Pass Engine Sputter (L129bs)
23. 11:57 AM - Re: Low Pass Engine Sputter (L129bs)
24. 12:46 PM - Re: Low Pass Engine Sputter (bmsim)
25. 12:56 PM - Re: . Low Pass Engine Sputter (William Halverson)
26. 01:30 PM - Re: . Low Pass Engine Sputter (Nigel Willson)
27. 01:43 PM - Re: . Low Pass Engine Sputter (ggg6@att.net)
28. 01:45 PM - Re: . Low Pass Engine Sputter (William Halverson)
29. 01:45 PM - Re: Low Pass Engine Sputter (bill wade)
30. 01:49 PM - Re: . Low Pass Engine Sputter (Looigi)
31. 01:54 PM - Re: . Low Pass Engine Sputter (William Halverson)
32. 01:56 PM - Re: Re: . Low Pass Engine Sputter (Ernest Martinez)
33. 02:12 PM - Re: Re: . Low Pass Engine Sputter (L129bs)
34. 03:39 PM - Re: Low Pass Engine Sputter (Adrian Hale)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Low Pass Engine Sputter |
Hi Everyone,
Hopefully someone has some input on this. My Yak has exhibited a strange high
pucker factor behavior on the last two low passes I have done. Last week, after
a normal flight, some gentle aero, loops, barrel rolls, etc., I came back in
and did a low pass over the runway, pulling up at the end, not really hard,
but the engine sputtered like it would on a bad mag. I leveled off, joined the
pattern, and had an uneventful landing.
Yesterday, I took her back up for a test flight, took off and she ran like a top.
I spiraled up over the airport just in case there were any hiccups - nothing.
Did a loop, nothing, ran perfectly. So I leveled off and flew around the
area a bit. I ended up on the same far end of the runway, so I set up for a
low pass. About 3/4 of the way down the runway, same sputter again, so I gently
joined the pattern and put her down for another uneventful landing. Engine
ran perfectly and there were no hiccups or anything in the pattern, or on the
ground after another runup.
Does anyone have any idea what could cause something like this. Obviously with
only 2 occurrences happening during a low pass it is too soon to directly correlate
the behavior with the low pass scenario, however, at the same time the
fact cant be ignored that it happened twice only in the middle of a low pass.
I'm going to fly this afternoon, spiral up over the field, and see how she runs.
No more low passes or flight away from the field until I can determine what
is going on.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=472626#472626
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Low Pass Engine Sputter |
Check your tanks for water.
Ernie
On Fri, Sep 8, 2017 at 11:57 AM bmsim <bmsim@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> Hi Everyone,
>
> Hopefully someone has some input on this. My Yak has exhibited a strange
> high pucker factor behavior on the last two low passes I have done. Last
> week, after a normal flight, some gentle aero, loops, barrel rolls, etc., I
> came back in and did a low pass over the runway, pulling up at the end, not
> really hard, but the engine sputtered like it would on a bad mag. I
> leveled off, joined the pattern, and had an uneventful landing.
>
> Yesterday, I took her back up for a test flight, took off and she ran like
> a top. I spiraled up over the airport just in case there were any hiccups
> - nothing. Did a loop, nothing, ran perfectly. So I leveled off and flew
> around the area a bit. I ended up on the same far end of the runway, so I
> set up for a low pass. About 3/4 of the way down the runway, same sputter
> again, so I gently joined the pattern and put her down for another
> uneventful landing. Engine ran perfectly and there were no hiccups or
> anything in the pattern, or on the ground after another runup.
>
> Does anyone have any idea what could cause something like this. Obviously
> with only 2 occurrences happening during a low pass it is too soon to
> directly correlate the behavior with the low pass scenario, however, at the
> same time the fact cant be ignored that it happened twice only in the
> middle of a low pass.
>
> I'm going to fly this afternoon, spiral up over the field, and see how she
> runs. No more low passes or flight away from the field until I can
> determine what is going on.
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=472626#472626
>
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Low Pass Engine Sputter |
Questions:
Was the low pass out of a dive? I.E. Were you at a much higher speed?
Were you so low as to be in ground effect, again, increasing speed?
Did you happen to look at fuel pressure?
What was the engine RPM set to?
What was the throttle setting? Full forward?
Are your mag drops normal?
Is idle RPM as it always has been? Any change recently?
Has anything been adjusted recently? Timing, any kind of inspections, any hands
on the engine?
How long was this "sputter"? 1 second? More than that?
Are you running 100LL ?? Any mixture with car gas? Any additives?
Where were the shutters? Open or closed?
What was cylinder head temp?
Were the fuel tanks full at the beginning of each flight?
Have you verified that fuel tank venting is A-OK?
Obviously with the given information, the best most anyone can do is to make guesses.
That said, you need to be ready to switch from one mag to the other if
this happens again. Switch to position 1 and then to 2, and see if it clears.
I am personally at a loss to understand the relationship to the "low pass",
unless you are in ground effect and the aircraft is bouncing around with turbulence
at like 20 feet or less off the ground.
In the meantime, I going to risk this advice for fear of reprisal. My Yak-50 has
about 32 gallons of fuel total. I have a habit of putting in a full QUART
of MMO (Marvel Mystery Oil) per 30 gallons. This is much more than the advised
mixture of course. I also USED TO suffer from leading of the valves, and since
I began doing this, the problem has completely been resolved. Regardless,
you really have to try very hard to put too much of this stuff in the fuel to
cause a problem. One quart is a lot, but it does not cause any engine issues
at all, and it tends to clean out everything (IMHO). I'd add a quart to your
fuel for the next few fill ups, just for GP (General Purposes). But this of
course is a WAG.
Obviously the big question here is: Is it fuel, or is it ignition? Typically
this kind of thing is ignition related, but it is very hard to bet money on that.
Mark
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of bmsim
Sent: Friday, September 08, 2017 11:55 AM
Subject: [Non-DoD Source] Yak-List: Low Pass Engine Sputter
Hi Everyone,
Hopefully someone has some input on this. My Yak has exhibited a strange high
pucker factor behavior on the last two low passes I have done. Last week, after
a normal flight, some gentle aero, loops, barrel rolls, etc., I came back in
and did a low pass over the runway, pulling up at the end, not really hard,
but the engine sputtered like it would on a bad mag. I leveled off, joined the
pattern, and had an uneventful landing.
Yesterday, I took her back up for a test flight, took off and she ran like a top.
I spiraled up over the airport just in case there were any hiccups - nothing.
Did a loop, nothing, ran perfectly. So I leveled off and flew around the
area a bit. I ended up on the same far end of the runway, so I set up for a
low pass. About 3/4 of the way down the runway, same sputter again, so I gently
joined the pattern and put her down for another uneventful landing. Engine
ran perfectly and there were no hiccups or anything in the pattern, or on the
ground after another runup.
Does anyone have any idea what could cause something like this. Obviously with
only 2 occurrences happening during a low pass it is too soon to directly correlate
the behavior with the low pass scenario, however, at the same time the
fact cant be ignored that it happened twice only in the middle of a low pass.
I'm going to fly this afternoon, spiral up over the field, and see how she runs.
No more low passes or flight away from the field until I can determine what
is going on.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=472626#472626
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| Subject: | Low Pass Engine Sputter |
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| Subject: | Low Pass Engine Sputter |
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Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Low Pass Engine Sputter |
All excellent points by Mark and Ernie. M14 or Huosai engine? I'd like
to add; What was the outside air temp and the relative humidityeach time
it occurred? I personally experienced the exact same symptom in a Yak 52
doing the exact same thing and ultimately concluded it had to be carb ice.
Although the carburetor is a pressure carburetor, the IS a very small
window where carb ice can and will occur. So please do not discount
carb ice as causing the problem.
You may want to do the same test twice; once without carb heat and see
if you get the same symptom. If you do, perform the same maneuver only
this time with carb heat.
https://www.aopa.org/-/media/images/legacy/aopa/home/pilot-resources/safety-,-a-,-proficiency/accident-analysis/accident-statistics/epilot-reports/epilot-asf-accident-reports-carburetor-what/nyc02fa025_1.jpg?la=en
Dennis
A. Dennis Savarese
334-546-8182 (mobile)
www.yak-52.com
Skype - Yakguy1
On 9/8/2017 12:30 PM, Bitterlich, Mark G CIV NAVAIR, WD wrote:
>
> Questions:
>
> Was the low pass out of a dive? I.E. Were you at a much higher speed?
> Were you so low as to be in ground effect, again, increasing speed?
> Did you happen to look at fuel pressure?
> What was the engine RPM set to?
> What was the throttle setting? Full forward?
> Are your mag drops normal?
> Is idle RPM as it always has been? Any change recently?
> Has anything been adjusted recently? Timing, any kind of inspections, any hands
on the engine?
> How long was this "sputter"? 1 second? More than that?
> Are you running 100LL ?? Any mixture with car gas? Any additives?
> Where were the shutters? Open or closed?
> What was cylinder head temp?
> Were the fuel tanks full at the beginning of each flight?
> Have you verified that fuel tank venting is A-OK?
>
>
> Obviously with the given information, the best most anyone can do is to make
guesses. That said, you need to be ready to switch from one mag to the other
if this happens again. Switch to position 1 and then to 2, and see if it clears.
I am personally at a loss to understand the relationship to the "low pass",
unless you are in ground effect and the aircraft is bouncing around with turbulence
at like 20 feet or less off the ground.
>
> In the meantime, I going to risk this advice for fear of reprisal. My Yak-50
has about 32 gallons of fuel total. I have a habit of putting in a full QUART
of MMO (Marvel Mystery Oil) per 30 gallons. This is much more than the advised
mixture of course. I also USED TO suffer from leading of the valves, and
since I began doing this, the problem has completely been resolved. Regardless,
you really have to try very hard to put too much of this stuff in the fuel
to cause a problem. One quart is a lot, but it does not cause any engine issues
at all, and it tends to clean out everything (IMHO). I'd add a quart to your
fuel for the next few fill ups, just for GP (General Purposes). But this of
course is a WAG.
>
> Obviously the big question here is: Is it fuel, or is it ignition? Typically
this kind of thing is ignition related, but it is very hard to bet money on
that.
>
> Mark
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of bmsim
> Sent: Friday, September 08, 2017 11:55 AM
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Subject: [Non-DoD Source] Yak-List: Low Pass Engine Sputter
>
>
> Hi Everyone,
>
> Hopefully someone has some input on this. My Yak has exhibited a strange high
pucker factor behavior on the last two low passes I have done. Last week, after
a normal flight, some gentle aero, loops, barrel rolls, etc., I came back
in and did a low pass over the runway, pulling up at the end, not really hard,
but the engine sputtered like it would on a bad mag. I leveled off, joined
the pattern, and had an uneventful landing.
>
> Yesterday, I took her back up for a test flight, took off and she ran like a
top. I spiraled up over the airport just in case there were any hiccups - nothing.
Did a loop, nothing, ran perfectly. So I leveled off and flew around the
area a bit. I ended up on the same far end of the runway, so I set up for
a low pass. About 3/4 of the way down the runway, same sputter again, so I gently
joined the pattern and put her down for another uneventful landing. Engine
ran perfectly and there were no hiccups or anything in the pattern, or on the
ground after another runup.
>
> Does anyone have any idea what could cause something like this. Obviously with
only 2 occurrences happening during a low pass it is too soon to directly correlate
the behavior with the low pass scenario, however, at the same time the
fact cant be ignored that it happened twice only in the middle of a low pass.
>
> I'm going to fly this afternoon, spiral up over the field, and see how she runs.
No more low passes or flight away from the field until I can determine what
is going on.
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=472626#472626
>
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Low Pass Engine Sputter |
Seriously? What country are you from?
http://www.cfinotebook.net/notebook/aircraft-operations/approaches/low-approach
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of L129bs
Sent: Friday, September 08, 2017 12:16 PM
Subject: [Non-DoD Source] RE: Yak-List: Low Pass Engine Sputter
well, low passes are illegal. So do them. problem solved.
Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.
-------- Original message --------
From: bmsim <bmsim@hotmail.com>
Date:2017/09/08 9:54 AM (GMT-07:00)
Cc:
Subject: Yak-List: Low Pass Engine Sputter
Message 8
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| Subject: | Low Pass Engine Sputter |
What are you doing with the throttle is probably a pertinent question....
Closing while diving and then opening during the pass perhaps?
Technically, you should just leave it at aerobatic power all the while....
Apart from the fact that if you were in the UK (not sure about FAA rules),
you'd be pulled up anyway for doing low passes without an exemption from the
Rules of the Air since this type of approach can hardly be called an
approach to land.....
Regards,
Nigel Willson
Flying Instructor & Examiner | Airshow Organiser | Display Pilot
Mobile:
+44 (0)7809 116676
Email:
nigel.willson@yakdisplay.com
Web:
http://easyppl.com
http://greatbritishairshows.com
http://yakdisplay.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bitterlich, Mark G
CIV NAVAIR, WD
Sent: 08 September 2017 17:30
Subject: RE: [Non-DoD Source] Yak-List: Low Pass Engine Sputter
--> <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
Questions:
Was the low pass out of a dive? I.E. Were you at a much higher speed?
Were you so low as to be in ground effect, again, increasing speed?
Did you happen to look at fuel pressure?
What was the engine RPM set to?
What was the throttle setting? Full forward?
Are your mag drops normal?
Is idle RPM as it always has been? Any change recently?
Has anything been adjusted recently? Timing, any kind of inspections, any
hands on the engine?
How long was this "sputter"? 1 second? More than that?
Are you running 100LL ?? Any mixture with car gas? Any additives?
Where were the shutters? Open or closed?
What was cylinder head temp?
Were the fuel tanks full at the beginning of each flight?
Have you verified that fuel tank venting is A-OK?
Obviously with the given information, the best most anyone can do is to make
guesses. That said, you need to be ready to switch from one mag to the
other if this happens again. Switch to position 1 and then to 2, and see if
it clears. I am personally at a loss to understand the relationship to the
"low pass", unless you are in ground effect and the aircraft is bouncing
around with turbulence at like 20 feet or less off the ground.
In the meantime, I going to risk this advice for fear of reprisal. My
Yak-50 has about 32 gallons of fuel total. I have a habit of putting in a
full QUART of MMO (Marvel Mystery Oil) per 30 gallons. This is much more
than the advised mixture of course. I also USED TO suffer from leading of
the valves, and since I began doing this, the problem has completely been
resolved. Regardless, you really have to try very hard to put too much of
this stuff in the fuel to cause a problem. One quart is a lot, but it does
not cause any engine issues at all, and it tends to clean out everything
(IMHO). I'd add a quart to your fuel for the next few fill ups, just for GP
(General Purposes). But this of course is a WAG.
Obviously the big question here is: Is it fuel, or is it ignition?
Typically this kind of thing is ignition related, but it is very hard to bet
money on that.
Mark
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of bmsim
Sent: Friday, September 08, 2017 11:55 AM
Subject: [Non-DoD Source] Yak-List: Low Pass Engine Sputter
Hi Everyone,
Hopefully someone has some input on this. My Yak has exhibited a strange
high pucker factor behavior on the last two low passes I have done. Last
week, after a normal flight, some gentle aero, loops, barrel rolls, etc., I
came back in and did a low pass over the runway, pulling up at the end, not
really hard, but the engine sputtered like it would on a bad mag. I leveled
off, joined the pattern, and had an uneventful landing.
Yesterday, I took her back up for a test flight, took off and she ran like a
top. I spiraled up over the airport just in case there were any hiccups -
nothing. Did a loop, nothing, ran perfectly. So I leveled off and flew
around the area a bit. I ended up on the same far end of the runway, so I
set up for a low pass. About 3/4 of the way down the runway, same sputter
again, so I gently joined the pattern and put her down for another
uneventful landing. Engine ran perfectly and there were no hiccups or
anything in the pattern, or on the ground after another runup.
Does anyone have any idea what could cause something like this. Obviously
with only 2 occurrences happening during a low pass it is too soon to
directly correlate the behavior with the low pass scenario, however, at the
same time the fact cant be ignored that it happened twice only in the middle
of a low pass.
I'm going to fly this afternoon, spiral up over the field, and see how she
runs. No more low passes or flight away from the field until I can determine
what is going on.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=472626#472626
Message 9
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|
| Subject: | Low Pass Engine Sputter |
Oh darn. I'm sorry. The message was from Bill Geipel. Disregard.
-----Original Message-----
From: Bitterlich, Mark G CIV NAVAIR, WD
Sent: Friday, September 08, 2017 1:26 PM
Subject: Yak-List: Low Pass Engine Sputter
Seriously? What country are you from?
http://www.cfinotebook.net/notebook/aircraft-operations/approaches/low-approach
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of L129bs
Sent: Friday, September 08, 2017 12:16 PM
Subject: [Non-DoD Source] RE: Yak-List: Low Pass Engine Sputter
well, low passes are illegal. So do them. problem solved.
Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.
-------- Original message --------
From: bmsim <bmsim@hotmail.com>
Date:2017/09/08 9:54 AM (GMT-07:00)
Cc:
Subject: Yak-List: Low Pass Engine Sputter
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Low Pass Engine Sputter |
How about a "practice missed approach"?
A. Dennis Savarese
334-546-8182 (mobile)
www.yak-52.com
Skype - Yakguy1
On 9/8/2017 1:26 PM, Nigel Willson wrote:
>
> What are you doing with the throttle is probably a pertinent question....
> Closing while diving and then opening during the pass perhaps?
>
> Technically, you should just leave it at aerobatic power all the while....
>
> Apart from the fact that if you were in the UK (not sure about FAA rules),
> you'd be pulled up anyway for doing low passes without an exemption from the
> Rules of the Air since this type of approach can hardly be called an
> approach to land.....
>
>
> Regards,
> Nigel Willson
> Flying Instructor & Examiner | Airshow Organiser | Display Pilot
>
>
>
> Mobile:
> +44 (0)7809 116676
>
>
> Email:
> nigel.willson@yakdisplay.com
>
>
> Web:
> http://easyppl.com
> http://greatbritishairshows.com
> http://yakdisplay.com
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bitterlich, Mark G
> CIV NAVAIR, WD
> Sent: 08 September 2017 17:30
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: [Non-DoD Source] Yak-List: Low Pass Engine Sputter
>
> --> <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
>
> Questions:
>
> Was the low pass out of a dive? I.E. Were you at a much higher speed?
> Were you so low as to be in ground effect, again, increasing speed?
> Did you happen to look at fuel pressure?
> What was the engine RPM set to?
> What was the throttle setting? Full forward?
> Are your mag drops normal?
> Is idle RPM as it always has been? Any change recently?
> Has anything been adjusted recently? Timing, any kind of inspections, any
> hands on the engine?
> How long was this "sputter"? 1 second? More than that?
> Are you running 100LL ?? Any mixture with car gas? Any additives?
> Where were the shutters? Open or closed?
> What was cylinder head temp?
> Were the fuel tanks full at the beginning of each flight?
> Have you verified that fuel tank venting is A-OK?
>
>
> Obviously with the given information, the best most anyone can do is to make
> guesses. That said, you need to be ready to switch from one mag to the
> other if this happens again. Switch to position 1 and then to 2, and see if
> it clears. I am personally at a loss to understand the relationship to the
> "low pass", unless you are in ground effect and the aircraft is bouncing
> around with turbulence at like 20 feet or less off the ground.
>
> In the meantime, I going to risk this advice for fear of reprisal. My
> Yak-50 has about 32 gallons of fuel total. I have a habit of putting in a
> full QUART of MMO (Marvel Mystery Oil) per 30 gallons. This is much more
> than the advised mixture of course. I also USED TO suffer from leading of
> the valves, and since I began doing this, the problem has completely been
> resolved. Regardless, you really have to try very hard to put too much of
> this stuff in the fuel to cause a problem. One quart is a lot, but it does
> not cause any engine issues at all, and it tends to clean out everything
> (IMHO). I'd add a quart to your fuel for the next few fill ups, just for GP
> (General Purposes). But this of course is a WAG.
>
> Obviously the big question here is: Is it fuel, or is it ignition?
> Typically this kind of thing is ignition related, but it is very hard to bet
> money on that.
>
> Mark
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of bmsim
> Sent: Friday, September 08, 2017 11:55 AM
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Subject: [Non-DoD Source] Yak-List: Low Pass Engine Sputter
>
>
> Hi Everyone,
>
> Hopefully someone has some input on this. My Yak has exhibited a strange
> high pucker factor behavior on the last two low passes I have done. Last
> week, after a normal flight, some gentle aero, loops, barrel rolls, etc., I
> came back in and did a low pass over the runway, pulling up at the end, not
> really hard, but the engine sputtered like it would on a bad mag. I leveled
> off, joined the pattern, and had an uneventful landing.
>
> Yesterday, I took her back up for a test flight, took off and she ran like a
> top. I spiraled up over the airport just in case there were any hiccups -
> nothing. Did a loop, nothing, ran perfectly. So I leveled off and flew
> around the area a bit. I ended up on the same far end of the runway, so I
> set up for a low pass. About 3/4 of the way down the runway, same sputter
> again, so I gently joined the pattern and put her down for another
> uneventful landing. Engine ran perfectly and there were no hiccups or
> anything in the pattern, or on the ground after another runup.
>
> Does anyone have any idea what could cause something like this. Obviously
> with only 2 occurrences happening during a low pass it is too soon to
> directly correlate the behavior with the low pass scenario, however, at the
> same time the fact cant be ignored that it happened twice only in the middle
> of a low pass.
>
> I'm going to fly this afternoon, spiral up over the field, and see how she
> runs. No more low passes or flight away from the field until I can determine
> what is going on.
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=472626#472626
>
>
Message 11
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|
| Subject: | Low Pass Engine Sputter |
Even in your attached document the inference is a low approach TO LAND (i.e. in
the landing configuration), and not a high speed low pass with no intention of
landing..... That is called a "Fly-through". So the rules (that protect you
from prosecution because you are in approach an landing mode) do not apply to
this type of manoeuvre.......
Regards,
Nigel Willson
Flying Instructor & Examiner | Airshow Organiser | Display Pilot
Mobile:
+44 (0)7809 116676
Email:
nigel.willson@yakdisplay.com
Web:
http://easyppl.com
http://greatbritishairshows.com
http://yakdisplay.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bitterlich, Mark G CIV NAVAIR, WD
Sent: 08 September 2017 18:26
Subject: Yak-List: Low Pass Engine Sputter
--> <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
Seriously? What country are you from?
http://www.cfinotebook.net/notebook/aircraft-operations/approaches/low-approach
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of L129bs
Sent: Friday, September 08, 2017 12:16 PM
Subject: [Non-DoD Source] RE: Yak-List: Low Pass Engine Sputter
well, low passes are illegal. So do them. problem solved.
Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.
-------- Original message --------
From: bmsim <bmsim@hotmail.com>
Date:2017/09/08 9:54 AM (GMT-07:00)
Cc:
Subject: Yak-List: Low Pass Engine Sputter
Message 12
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|
| Subject: | Re: Low Pass Engine Sputter |
In what galaxy are you living?
Verstuurd vanaf mijn iPad
> Op 8 sep. 2017 om 18:16 heeft L129bs <l129bs@gmail.com> het volgende geschreven:
>
> well, low passes are illegal. So do them. problem solved.
>
>
>
> Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.
>
>
> -------- Original message --------
> From: bmsim <bmsim@hotmail.com>
> Date:2017/09/08 9:54 AM (GMT-07:00)
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Cc:
> Subject: Yak-List: Low Pass Engine Sputter
>
Message 13
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|
| Subject: | Low Pass Engine Sputter |
Still has to be done in the landing configuration if you're coming that
low...... otherwise, a practice missed approach that starts with the gear up
would never be that close to the ground, unless the gear had been forgotten,
but the crucial factor is still that the aircraft would be at APPROACH
speed, and not high speed from a dive....., and a missed approach ALWAYS
climbs at the point of adding power......
Regards,
Nigel Willson
Flying Instructor & Examiner | Airshow Organiser | Display Pilot
Mobile:
+44 (0)7809 116676
Email:
nigel.willson@yakdisplay.com
Web:
http://easyppl.com
http://greatbritishairshows.com
http://yakdisplay.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of A. Dennis Savarese
Sent: 08 September 2017 18:34
Subject: Re: [Non-DoD Source] Yak-List: Low Pass Engine Sputter
--> <dsavarese0812@bellsouth.net>
How about a "practice missed approach"?
A. Dennis Savarese
334-546-8182 (mobile)
www.yak-52.com
Skype - Yakguy1
On 9/8/2017 1:26 PM, Nigel Willson wrote:
> --> <nigel.willson@yakdisplay.com>
>
> What are you doing with the throttle is probably a pertinent question....
> Closing while diving and then opening during the pass perhaps?
>
> Technically, you should just leave it at aerobatic power all the while....
>
> Apart from the fact that if you were in the UK (not sure about FAA
> rules), you'd be pulled up anyway for doing low passes without an
> exemption from the Rules of the Air since this type of approach can
> hardly be called an approach to land.....
>
>
> Regards,
> Nigel Willson
> Flying Instructor & Examiner | Airshow Organiser | Display Pilot
>
>
>
> Mobile:
> +44 (0)7809 116676
>
>
> Email:
> nigel.willson@yakdisplay.com
>
>
> Web:
> http://easyppl.com
> http://greatbritishairshows.com
> http://yakdisplay.com
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bitterlich,
> Mark G CIV NAVAIR, WD
> Sent: 08 September 2017 17:30
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: [Non-DoD Source] Yak-List: Low Pass Engine Sputter
>
> --> <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
>
> Questions:
>
> Was the low pass out of a dive? I.E. Were you at a much higher speed?
> Were you so low as to be in ground effect, again, increasing speed?
> Did you happen to look at fuel pressure?
> What was the engine RPM set to?
> What was the throttle setting? Full forward?
> Are your mag drops normal?
> Is idle RPM as it always has been? Any change recently?
> Has anything been adjusted recently? Timing, any kind of inspections,
> any hands on the engine?
> How long was this "sputter"? 1 second? More than that?
> Are you running 100LL ?? Any mixture with car gas? Any additives?
> Where were the shutters? Open or closed?
> What was cylinder head temp?
> Were the fuel tanks full at the beginning of each flight?
> Have you verified that fuel tank venting is A-OK?
>
>
> Obviously with the given information, the best most anyone can do is
> to make guesses. That said, you need to be ready to switch from one
> mag to the other if this happens again. Switch to position 1 and then
> to 2, and see if it clears. I am personally at a loss to understand
> the relationship to the "low pass", unless you are in ground effect
> and the aircraft is bouncing around with turbulence at like 20 feet or
less off the ground.
>
> In the meantime, I going to risk this advice for fear of reprisal. My
> Yak-50 has about 32 gallons of fuel total. I have a habit of putting
> in a full QUART of MMO (Marvel Mystery Oil) per 30 gallons. This is
> much more than the advised mixture of course. I also USED TO suffer
> from leading of the valves, and since I began doing this, the problem
> has completely been resolved. Regardless, you really have to try very
> hard to put too much of this stuff in the fuel to cause a problem.
> One quart is a lot, but it does not cause any engine issues at all,
> and it tends to clean out everything (IMHO). I'd add a quart to your
> fuel for the next few fill ups, just for GP (General Purposes). But this
of course is a WAG.
>
> Obviously the big question here is: Is it fuel, or is it ignition?
> Typically this kind of thing is ignition related, but it is very hard
> to bet money on that.
>
> Mark
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of bmsim
> Sent: Friday, September 08, 2017 11:55 AM
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Subject: [Non-DoD Source] Yak-List: Low Pass Engine Sputter
>
>
> Hi Everyone,
>
> Hopefully someone has some input on this. My Yak has exhibited a
> strange high pucker factor behavior on the last two low passes I have
> done. Last week, after a normal flight, some gentle aero, loops,
> barrel rolls, etc., I came back in and did a low pass over the runway,
> pulling up at the end, not really hard, but the engine sputtered like
> it would on a bad mag. I leveled off, joined the pattern, and had an
uneventful landing.
>
> Yesterday, I took her back up for a test flight, took off and she ran
> like a top. I spiraled up over the airport just in case there were
> any hiccups - nothing. Did a loop, nothing, ran perfectly. So I
> leveled off and flew around the area a bit. I ended up on the same
> far end of the runway, so I set up for a low pass. About 3/4 of the
> way down the runway, same sputter again, so I gently joined the
> pattern and put her down for another uneventful landing. Engine ran
> perfectly and there were no hiccups or anything in the pattern, or on the
ground after another runup.
>
> Does anyone have any idea what could cause something like this.
> Obviously with only 2 occurrences happening during a low pass it is
> too soon to directly correlate the behavior with the low pass
> scenario, however, at the same time the fact cant be ignored that it
> happened twice only in the middle of a low pass.
>
> I'm going to fly this afternoon, spiral up over the field, and see how
> she runs. No more low passes or flight away from the field until I can
> determine what is going on.
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=472626#472626
>
>
Message 14
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| Subject: | Low Pass Engine Sputter |
Suggest you check out and read SERA - especially if you live in the nl......
Regards,
Nigel Willson
Flying Instructor & Examiner | Airshow Organiser | Display Pilot
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Hans Oortman
Sent: 08 September 2017 18:45
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Low Pass Engine Sputter
In what galaxy are you living?
Verstuurd vanaf mijn iPad
> Op 8 sep. 2017 om 18:16 heeft L129bs <l129bs@gmail.com> het volgende geschreven:
>
> well, low passes are illegal. So do them. problem solved.
>
>
>
> Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.
>
>
> -------- Original message --------
> From: bmsim <bmsim@hotmail.com>
> Date:2017/09/08 9:54 AM (GMT-07:00)
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Cc:
> Subject: Yak-List: Low Pass Engine Sputter
>
Message 15
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| Subject: | Low Pass Engine Sputter |
Nigel.
I am sure it works the way you describe in your country. It does not work that
way in this country. I regularly request a low pass, or a low approach at
my home airport on a regular basis. This is a FAA towered airport. It is "cleared
as requested" every single time.
When flying from my airport to the beach, I fly right over Marine Corps Air Station
Cherry Point. When I ask for clearance through their Class D airspace,
I wait for approval, and then say: "Request 500 feet *OR LOWER* down the runways
(which are three miles long) and the answer is typically: "Cleared as requested,
keep it over the runway".
Lastly, our aircraft are "Experimental Exhibition", a category not found in your
country. The purpose of this category is to exhibit the specific operating
characteristics of the make and model of aircraft, and that includes for photography.
Making a HIGH SPEED PASS directly over the runway, is an approved demonstration
of those characteristics.
So excuse me if I have to disagree with your argument. If a Federal Aviation Administration
controlled airport tells me "approved as requested" when I specifically
ask for a "low approach/pass", there is no requirement for me to exhibit
a certain speed, a certain landing configuration, or a certain altitude.
At least that has been the case for the last 45 years I have been doing low passes
at the airports in my country.
Mark
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Nigel Willson
Sent: Friday, September 08, 2017 1:43 PM
Subject: [Non-DoD Source] RE: Yak-List: Low Pass Engine Sputter
Even in your attached document the inference is a low approach TO LAND (i.e. in
the landing configuration), and not a high speed low pass with no intention of
landing..... That is called a "Fly-through". So the rules (that protect you
from prosecution because you are in approach an landing mode) do not apply to
this type of manoeuvre.......
Regards,
Nigel Willson
Flying Instructor & Examiner | Airshow Organiser | Display Pilot
Mobile:
+44 (0)7809 116676
Email:
nigel.willson@yakdisplay.com
Web:
http://easyppl.com
http://greatbritishairshows.com
http://yakdisplay.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bitterlich, Mark G CIV NAVAIR, WD
Sent: 08 September 2017 18:26
Subject: Yak-List: Low Pass Engine Sputter
--> <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
Seriously? What country are you from?
http://www.cfinotebook.net/notebook/aircraft-operations/approaches/low-approach
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of L129bs
Sent: Friday, September 08, 2017 12:16 PM
Subject: [Non-DoD Source] RE: Yak-List: Low Pass Engine Sputter
well, low passes are illegal. So do them. problem solved.
Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.
-------- Original message --------
From: bmsim <bmsim@hotmail.com>
Date:2017/09/08 9:54 AM (GMT-07:00)
Cc:
Subject: Yak-List: Low Pass Engine Sputter
Message 16
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| Subject: | Low Pass Engine Sputter |
Nigel,
Bless your heart, but I have to comment that I thank the Dear Lord you are not
an FAA representative in this country. :-)
Mark
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Nigel Willson
Sent: Friday, September 08, 2017 1:47 PM
Subject: RE: [Non-DoD Source] Yak-List: Low Pass Engine Sputter
--> <nigel.willson@yakdisplay.com>
Still has to be done in the landing configuration if you're coming that low......
otherwise, a practice missed approach that starts with the gear up would never
be that close to the ground, unless the gear had been forgotten, but the crucial
factor is still that the aircraft would be at APPROACH speed, and not high
speed from a dive....., and a missed approach ALWAYS climbs at the point of
adding power......
Regards,
Nigel Willson
Flying Instructor & Examiner | Airshow Organiser | Display Pilot
Mobile:
+44 (0)7809 116676
Email:
nigel.willson@yakdisplay.com
Web:
http://easyppl.com
http://greatbritishairshows.com
http://yakdisplay.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of A. Dennis Savarese
Sent: 08 September 2017 18:34
Subject: Re: [Non-DoD Source] Yak-List: Low Pass Engine Sputter
--> <dsavarese0812@bellsouth.net>
How about a "practice missed approach"?
A. Dennis Savarese
334-546-8182 (mobile)
www.yak-52.com
Skype - Yakguy1
On 9/8/2017 1:26 PM, Nigel Willson wrote:
> --> <nigel.willson@yakdisplay.com>
>
> What are you doing with the throttle is probably a pertinent question....
> Closing while diving and then opening during the pass perhaps?
>
> Technically, you should just leave it at aerobatic power all the while....
>
> Apart from the fact that if you were in the UK (not sure about FAA
> rules), you'd be pulled up anyway for doing low passes without an
> exemption from the Rules of the Air since this type of approach can
> hardly be called an approach to land.....
>
>
> Regards,
> Nigel Willson
> Flying Instructor & Examiner | Airshow Organiser | Display Pilot
>
>
> Mobile:
> +44 (0)7809 116676
>
>
> Email:
> nigel.willson@yakdisplay.com
>
>
> Web:
> http://easyppl.com
> http://greatbritishairshows.com
> http://yakdisplay.com
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bitterlich,
> Mark G CIV NAVAIR, WD
> Sent: 08 September 2017 17:30
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: [Non-DoD Source] Yak-List: Low Pass Engine Sputter
>
> --> <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
>
> Questions:
>
> Was the low pass out of a dive? I.E. Were you at a much higher speed?
> Were you so low as to be in ground effect, again, increasing speed?
> Did you happen to look at fuel pressure?
> What was the engine RPM set to?
> What was the throttle setting? Full forward?
> Are your mag drops normal?
> Is idle RPM as it always has been? Any change recently?
> Has anything been adjusted recently? Timing, any kind of inspections,
> any hands on the engine?
> How long was this "sputter"? 1 second? More than that?
> Are you running 100LL ?? Any mixture with car gas? Any additives?
> Where were the shutters? Open or closed?
> What was cylinder head temp?
> Were the fuel tanks full at the beginning of each flight?
> Have you verified that fuel tank venting is A-OK?
>
>
> Obviously with the given information, the best most anyone can do is
> to make guesses. That said, you need to be ready to switch from one
> mag to the other if this happens again. Switch to position 1 and then
> to 2, and see if it clears. I am personally at a loss to understand
> the relationship to the "low pass", unless you are in ground effect
> and the aircraft is bouncing around with turbulence at like 20 feet or
less off the ground.
>
> In the meantime, I going to risk this advice for fear of reprisal. My
> Yak-50 has about 32 gallons of fuel total. I have a habit of putting
> in a full QUART of MMO (Marvel Mystery Oil) per 30 gallons. This is
> much more than the advised mixture of course. I also USED TO suffer
> from leading of the valves, and since I began doing this, the problem
> has completely been resolved. Regardless, you really have to try very
> hard to put too much of this stuff in the fuel to cause a problem.
> One quart is a lot, but it does not cause any engine issues at all,
> and it tends to clean out everything (IMHO). I'd add a quart to your
> fuel for the next few fill ups, just for GP (General Purposes). But this
of course is a WAG.
>
> Obviously the big question here is: Is it fuel, or is it ignition?
> Typically this kind of thing is ignition related, but it is very hard
> to bet money on that.
>
> Mark
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of bmsim
> Sent: Friday, September 08, 2017 11:55 AM
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Subject: [Non-DoD Source] Yak-List: Low Pass Engine Sputter
>
>
> Hi Everyone,
>
> Hopefully someone has some input on this. My Yak has exhibited a
> strange high pucker factor behavior on the last two low passes I have
> done. Last week, after a normal flight, some gentle aero, loops,
> barrel rolls, etc., I came back in and did a low pass over the runway,
> pulling up at the end, not really hard, but the engine sputtered like
> it would on a bad mag. I leveled off, joined the pattern, and had an
uneventful landing.
>
> Yesterday, I took her back up for a test flight, took off and she ran
> like a top. I spiraled up over the airport just in case there were
> any hiccups - nothing. Did a loop, nothing, ran perfectly. So I
> leveled off and flew around the area a bit. I ended up on the same
> far end of the runway, so I set up for a low pass. About 3/4 of the
> way down the runway, same sputter again, so I gently joined the
> pattern and put her down for another uneventful landing. Engine ran
> perfectly and there were no hiccups or anything in the pattern, or on the
ground after another runup.
>
> Does anyone have any idea what could cause something like this.
> Obviously with only 2 occurrences happening during a low pass it is
> too soon to directly correlate the behavior with the low pass
> scenario, however, at the same time the fact cant be ignored that it
> happened twice only in the middle of a low pass.
>
> I'm going to fly this afternoon, spiral up over the field, and see how
> she runs. No more low passes or flight away from the field until I can
> determine what is going on.
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=472626#472626
>
>
Message 17
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|
| Subject: | Low Pass Engine Sputter |
That's true Mark... but ignorance is no defence either... and I'd rather try
to help people before they end up in a big pile of the brown stuff.....
You have no idea of what we have to put up with over here from very zealous
authorities......
Mind your Ps and Q's !!!!!
Regards,
Nigel Willson
Flying Instructor & Examiner | Airshow Organiser | Display Pilot
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bitterlich, Mark G
CIV NAVAIR, WD
Sent: 08 September 2017 19:05
Subject: Yak-List: Low Pass Engine Sputter
--> <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
Nigel,
Bless your heart, but I have to comment that I thank the Dear Lord you are
not an FAA representative in this country. :-)
Mark
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Nigel Willson
Sent: Friday, September 08, 2017 1:47 PM
Subject: RE: [Non-DoD Source] Yak-List: Low Pass Engine Sputter
--> <nigel.willson@yakdisplay.com>
Still has to be done in the landing configuration if you're coming that
low...... otherwise, a practice missed approach that starts with the gear up
would never be that close to the ground, unless the gear had been forgotten,
but the crucial factor is still that the aircraft would be at APPROACH
speed, and not high speed from a dive....., and a missed approach ALWAYS
climbs at the point of adding power......
Regards,
Nigel Willson
Flying Instructor & Examiner | Airshow Organiser | Display Pilot
Mobile:
+44 (0)7809 116676
Email:
nigel.willson@yakdisplay.com
Web:
http://easyppl.com
http://greatbritishairshows.com
http://yakdisplay.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of A. Dennis Savarese
Sent: 08 September 2017 18:34
Subject: Re: [Non-DoD Source] Yak-List: Low Pass Engine Sputter
--> <dsavarese0812@bellsouth.net>
How about a "practice missed approach"?
A. Dennis Savarese
334-546-8182 (mobile)
www.yak-52.com
Skype - Yakguy1
On 9/8/2017 1:26 PM, Nigel Willson wrote:
> --> <nigel.willson@yakdisplay.com>
>
> What are you doing with the throttle is probably a pertinent question....
> Closing while diving and then opening during the pass perhaps?
>
> Technically, you should just leave it at aerobatic power all the while....
>
> Apart from the fact that if you were in the UK (not sure about FAA
> rules), you'd be pulled up anyway for doing low passes without an
> exemption from the Rules of the Air since this type of approach can
> hardly be called an approach to land.....
>
>
> Regards,
> Nigel Willson
> Flying Instructor & Examiner | Airshow Organiser | Display Pilot
>
>
> Mobile:
> +44 (0)7809 116676
>
>
> Email:
> nigel.willson@yakdisplay.com
>
>
> Web:
> http://easyppl.com
> http://greatbritishairshows.com
> http://yakdisplay.com
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bitterlich,
> Mark G CIV NAVAIR, WD
> Sent: 08 September 2017 17:30
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: [Non-DoD Source] Yak-List: Low Pass Engine Sputter
>
> --> <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
>
> Questions:
>
> Was the low pass out of a dive? I.E. Were you at a much higher speed?
> Were you so low as to be in ground effect, again, increasing speed?
> Did you happen to look at fuel pressure?
> What was the engine RPM set to?
> What was the throttle setting? Full forward?
> Are your mag drops normal?
> Is idle RPM as it always has been? Any change recently?
> Has anything been adjusted recently? Timing, any kind of inspections,
> any hands on the engine?
> How long was this "sputter"? 1 second? More than that?
> Are you running 100LL ?? Any mixture with car gas? Any additives?
> Where were the shutters? Open or closed?
> What was cylinder head temp?
> Were the fuel tanks full at the beginning of each flight?
> Have you verified that fuel tank venting is A-OK?
>
>
> Obviously with the given information, the best most anyone can do is
> to make guesses. That said, you need to be ready to switch from one
> mag to the other if this happens again. Switch to position 1 and then
> to 2, and see if it clears. I am personally at a loss to understand
> the relationship to the "low pass", unless you are in ground effect
> and the aircraft is bouncing around with turbulence at like 20 feet or
less off the ground.
>
> In the meantime, I going to risk this advice for fear of reprisal. My
> Yak-50 has about 32 gallons of fuel total. I have a habit of putting
> in a full QUART of MMO (Marvel Mystery Oil) per 30 gallons. This is
> much more than the advised mixture of course. I also USED TO suffer
> from leading of the valves, and since I began doing this, the problem
> has completely been resolved. Regardless, you really have to try very
> hard to put too much of this stuff in the fuel to cause a problem.
> One quart is a lot, but it does not cause any engine issues at all,
> and it tends to clean out everything (IMHO). I'd add a quart to your
> fuel for the next few fill ups, just for GP (General Purposes). But
> this
of course is a WAG.
>
> Obviously the big question here is: Is it fuel, or is it ignition?
> Typically this kind of thing is ignition related, but it is very hard
> to bet money on that.
>
> Mark
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of bmsim
> Sent: Friday, September 08, 2017 11:55 AM
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Subject: [Non-DoD Source] Yak-List: Low Pass Engine Sputter
>
>
> Hi Everyone,
>
> Hopefully someone has some input on this. My Yak has exhibited a
> strange high pucker factor behavior on the last two low passes I have
> done. Last week, after a normal flight, some gentle aero, loops,
> barrel rolls, etc., I came back in and did a low pass over the runway,
> pulling up at the end, not really hard, but the engine sputtered like
> it would on a bad mag. I leveled off, joined the pattern, and had an
uneventful landing.
>
> Yesterday, I took her back up for a test flight, took off and she ran
> like a top. I spiraled up over the airport just in case there were
> any hiccups - nothing. Did a loop, nothing, ran perfectly. So I
> leveled off and flew around the area a bit. I ended up on the same
> far end of the runway, so I set up for a low pass. About 3/4 of the
> way down the runway, same sputter again, so I gently joined the
> pattern and put her down for another uneventful landing. Engine ran
> perfectly and there were no hiccups or anything in the pattern, or on
> the
ground after another runup.
>
> Does anyone have any idea what could cause something like this.
> Obviously with only 2 occurrences happening during a low pass it is
> too soon to directly correlate the behavior with the low pass
> scenario, however, at the same time the fact cant be ignored that it
> happened twice only in the middle of a low pass.
>
> I'm going to fly this afternoon, spiral up over the field, and see how
> she runs. No more low passes or flight away from the field until I can
> determine what is going on.
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=472626#472626
>
>
Message 18
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|
| Subject: | Low Pass Engine Sputter |
Well, it was a good suggestion, so I looked for the direct quote for operations
in THIS country.
Please note, there is no requirement for any specific aircraft configuration, no
specific speed, and no specific altitude required.
This quote is directly from the most recent Airman's Information Manual, published
by the FAA.
4312. Low Approach
a. A low approach (sometimes referred to as a low
pass) is the goaround maneuver following an
approach. Instead of landing or making a touchand
go, a pilot may wish to go around (low approach) in
order to expedite a particular operation (a series of
practice instrument approaches is an example of such
an operation). Unless otherwise authorized by ATC,
the low approach should be made straight ahead, with
no turns or climb made until the pilot has made a
thorough visual check for other aircraft in the area.
b. When operating within a Class B, Class C, and
Class D surface area, a pilot intending to make a low
approach should contact the tower for approval. This
request should be made prior to starting the final
approach.
c. When operating to an airport, not within a
Class B, Class C, and Class D surface area, a pilot
intending to make a low approach should, prior to
leaving the final approach fix inbound (nonprecision
approach) or the outer marker or fix used in lieu of the
outer marker inbound (precision approach), so advise
the FSS, UNICOM, or make a broadcast as
appropriate.
REFERENCEAIM, Paragraph 419 , Traffic Advisory Practices
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Nigel Willson
Sent: Friday, September 08, 2017 1:56 PM
Subject: [Non-DoD Source] RE: Yak-List: Low Pass Engine Sputter
Suggest you check out and read SERA - especially if you live in the nl......
Regards,
Nigel Willson
Flying Instructor & Examiner | Airshow Organiser | Display Pilot
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Hans Oortman
Sent: 08 September 2017 18:45
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Low Pass Engine Sputter
In what galaxy are you living?
Verstuurd vanaf mijn iPad
> Op 8 sep. 2017 om 18:16 heeft L129bs <l129bs@gmail.com> het volgende geschreven:
>
> well, low passes are illegal. So do them. problem solved.
>
>
> Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.
>
>
> -------- Original message --------
> From: bmsim <bmsim@hotmail.com>
> Date:2017/09/08 9:54 AM (GMT-07:00)
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Cc:
> Subject: Yak-List: Low Pass Engine Sputter
>
Message 19
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| Subject: | Low Pass Engine Sputter |
I did caveat my original post with "in the UK (and hence EASA)" - not sure about
FAA rules.
However, just because you get a clearance from ATC doesn't absolve you from the
usual Rules of the Air in "air law". I'm pretty sure that is standard world-wide.
For example over here in the UK, ATC will clear us to low levels (specifically
on what we call a Special VFR clearance) that we sometimes (as a pilot) have to
refuse because it would mean we would break the rules of the air...... the compliance
is always with the pilot. That's been tried and tested in court. Unfortunately!
Fortunately you guys have a lot more open space over there to have a bit more freedom
than we do over here, so I guess with a 3000ft runway you can do as you
say without busting the rules!
Regards,
Nigel Willson
Flying Instructor & Examiner | Airshow Organiser | Display Pilot
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bitterlich, Mark G CIV NAVAIR, WD
Sent: 08 September 2017 19:05
Subject: Yak-List: Low Pass Engine Sputter
--> <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
Nigel.
I am sure it works the way you describe in your country. It does not work that
way in this country. I regularly request a low pass, or a low approach at
my home airport on a regular basis. This is a FAA towered airport. It is "cleared
as requested" every single time.
When flying from my airport to the beach, I fly right over Marine Corps Air Station
Cherry Point. When I ask for clearance through their Class D airspace,
I wait for approval, and then say: "Request 500 feet *OR LOWER* down the runways
(which are three miles long) and the answer is typically: "Cleared as requested,
keep it over the runway".
Lastly, our aircraft are "Experimental Exhibition", a category not found in your
country. The purpose of this category is to exhibit the specific operating
characteristics of the make and model of aircraft, and that includes for photography.
Making a HIGH SPEED PASS directly over the runway, is an approved demonstration
of those characteristics.
So excuse me if I have to disagree with your argument. If a Federal Aviation Administration
controlled airport tells me "approved as requested" when I specifically
ask for a "low approach/pass", there is no requirement for me to exhibit
a certain speed, a certain landing configuration, or a certain altitude.
At least that has been the case for the last 45 years I have been doing low passes
at the airports in my country.
Mark
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Nigel Willson
Sent: Friday, September 08, 2017 1:43 PM
Subject: [Non-DoD Source] RE: Yak-List: Low Pass Engine Sputter
--> <nigel.willson@yakdisplay.com>
Even in your attached document the inference is a low approach TO LAND (i.e. in
the landing configuration), and not a high speed low pass with no intention of
landing..... That is called a "Fly-through". So the rules (that protect you
from prosecution because you are in approach an landing mode) do not apply to
this type of manoeuvre.......
Regards,
Nigel Willson
Flying Instructor & Examiner | Airshow Organiser | Display Pilot
Mobile:
+44 (0)7809 116676
Email:
nigel.willson@yakdisplay.com
Web:
http://easyppl.com
http://greatbritishairshows.com
http://yakdisplay.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bitterlich, Mark G CIV NAVAIR, WD
Sent: 08 September 2017 18:26
Subject: Yak-List: Low Pass Engine Sputter
--> <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
Seriously? What country are you from?
http://www.cfinotebook.net/notebook/aircraft-operations/approaches/low-approach
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of L129bs
Sent: Friday, September 08, 2017 12:16 PM
Subject: [Non-DoD Source] RE: Yak-List: Low Pass Engine Sputter
well, low passes are illegal. So do them. problem solved.
Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.
-------- Original message --------
From: bmsim <bmsim@hotmail.com>
Date:2017/09/08 9:54 AM (GMT-07:00)
Cc:
Subject: Yak-List: Low Pass Engine Sputter
Message 20
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| Subject: | Low Pass Engine Sputter |
Point taken of course! :-)
Just also commenting that things are a tad different over here.
Mark
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Nigel Willson
Sent: Friday, September 08, 2017 2:25 PM
Subject: [Non-DoD Source] RE: Yak-List: Low Pass Engine Sputter
--> <nigel.willson@yakdisplay.com>
That's true Mark... but ignorance is no defence either... and I'd rather try to
help people before they end up in a big pile of the brown stuff.....
You have no idea of what we have to put up with over here from very zealous authorities......
Mind your Ps and Q's !!!!!
Regards,
Nigel Willson
Flying Instructor & Examiner | Airshow Organiser | Display Pilot
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bitterlich, Mark G CIV NAVAIR, WD
Sent: 08 September 2017 19:05
Subject: Yak-List: Low Pass Engine Sputter
--> <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
Nigel,
Bless your heart, but I have to comment that I thank the Dear Lord you are not
an FAA representative in this country. :-)
Mark
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Nigel Willson
Sent: Friday, September 08, 2017 1:47 PM
Subject: RE: [Non-DoD Source] Yak-List: Low Pass Engine Sputter
--> <nigel.willson@yakdisplay.com>
Still has to be done in the landing configuration if you're coming that low......
otherwise, a practice missed approach that starts with the gear up would never
be that close to the ground, unless the gear had been forgotten, but the crucial
factor is still that the aircraft would be at APPROACH speed, and not high
speed from a dive....., and a missed approach ALWAYS climbs at the point of
adding power......
Regards,
Nigel Willson
Flying Instructor & Examiner | Airshow Organiser | Display Pilot
Mobile:
+44 (0)7809 116676
Email:
nigel.willson@yakdisplay.com
Web:
http://easyppl.com
http://greatbritishairshows.com
http://yakdisplay.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of A. Dennis Savarese
Sent: 08 September 2017 18:34
Subject: Re: [Non-DoD Source] Yak-List: Low Pass Engine Sputter
--> <dsavarese0812@bellsouth.net>
How about a "practice missed approach"?
A. Dennis Savarese
334-546-8182 (mobile)
www.yak-52.com
Skype - Yakguy1
On 9/8/2017 1:26 PM, Nigel Willson wrote:
> --> <nigel.willson@yakdisplay.com>
>
> What are you doing with the throttle is probably a pertinent question....
> Closing while diving and then opening during the pass perhaps?
>
> Technically, you should just leave it at aerobatic power all the while....
>
> Apart from the fact that if you were in the UK (not sure about FAA
> rules), you'd be pulled up anyway for doing low passes without an
> exemption from the Rules of the Air since this type of approach can
> hardly be called an approach to land.....
>
>
> Regards,
> Nigel Willson
> Flying Instructor & Examiner | Airshow Organiser | Display Pilot
>
>
> Mobile:
> +44 (0)7809 116676
>
>
> Email:
> nigel.willson@yakdisplay.com
>
>
> Web:
> http://easyppl.com
> http://greatbritishairshows.com
> http://yakdisplay.com
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bitterlich,
> Mark G CIV NAVAIR, WD
> Sent: 08 September 2017 17:30
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: [Non-DoD Source] Yak-List: Low Pass Engine Sputter
>
> --> <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
>
> Questions:
>
> Was the low pass out of a dive? I.E. Were you at a much higher speed?
> Were you so low as to be in ground effect, again, increasing speed?
> Did you happen to look at fuel pressure?
> What was the engine RPM set to?
> What was the throttle setting? Full forward?
> Are your mag drops normal?
> Is idle RPM as it always has been? Any change recently?
> Has anything been adjusted recently? Timing, any kind of inspections,
> any hands on the engine?
> How long was this "sputter"? 1 second? More than that?
> Are you running 100LL ?? Any mixture with car gas? Any additives?
> Where were the shutters? Open or closed?
> What was cylinder head temp?
> Were the fuel tanks full at the beginning of each flight?
> Have you verified that fuel tank venting is A-OK?
>
>
> Obviously with the given information, the best most anyone can do is
> to make guesses. That said, you need to be ready to switch from one
> mag to the other if this happens again. Switch to position 1 and then
> to 2, and see if it clears. I am personally at a loss to understand
> the relationship to the "low pass", unless you are in ground effect
> and the aircraft is bouncing around with turbulence at like 20 feet or
less off the ground.
>
> In the meantime, I going to risk this advice for fear of reprisal. My
> Yak-50 has about 32 gallons of fuel total. I have a habit of putting
> in a full QUART of MMO (Marvel Mystery Oil) per 30 gallons. This is
> much more than the advised mixture of course. I also USED TO suffer
> from leading of the valves, and since I began doing this, the problem
> has completely been resolved. Regardless, you really have to try very
> hard to put too much of this stuff in the fuel to cause a problem.
> One quart is a lot, but it does not cause any engine issues at all,
> and it tends to clean out everything (IMHO). I'd add a quart to your
> fuel for the next few fill ups, just for GP (General Purposes). But
> this
of course is a WAG.
>
> Obviously the big question here is: Is it fuel, or is it ignition?
> Typically this kind of thing is ignition related, but it is very hard
> to bet money on that.
>
> Mark
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of bmsim
> Sent: Friday, September 08, 2017 11:55 AM
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Subject: [Non-DoD Source] Yak-List: Low Pass Engine Sputter
>
>
> Hi Everyone,
>
> Hopefully someone has some input on this. My Yak has exhibited a
> strange high pucker factor behavior on the last two low passes I have
> done. Last week, after a normal flight, some gentle aero, loops,
> barrel rolls, etc., I came back in and did a low pass over the runway,
> pulling up at the end, not really hard, but the engine sputtered like
> it would on a bad mag. I leveled off, joined the pattern, and had an
uneventful landing.
>
> Yesterday, I took her back up for a test flight, took off and she ran
> like a top. I spiraled up over the airport just in case there were
> any hiccups - nothing. Did a loop, nothing, ran perfectly. So I
> leveled off and flew around the area a bit. I ended up on the same
> far end of the runway, so I set up for a low pass. About 3/4 of the
> way down the runway, same sputter again, so I gently joined the
> pattern and put her down for another uneventful landing. Engine ran
> perfectly and there were no hiccups or anything in the pattern, or on
> the
ground after another runup.
>
> Does anyone have any idea what could cause something like this.
> Obviously with only 2 occurrences happening during a low pass it is
> too soon to directly correlate the behavior with the low pass
> scenario, however, at the same time the fact cant be ignored that it
> happened twice only in the middle of a low pass.
>
> I'm going to fly this afternoon, spiral up over the field, and see how
> she runs. No more low passes or flight away from the field until I can
> determine what is going on.
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=472626#472626
>
>
Message 21
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| Subject: | Low Pass Engine Sputter |
I'm not going to argue over your rules over there, but I guess the crux of the
matter is the legal interpretation of "approach" and "go-around manoeuvre" in
the FAA.
Over here the definition of "approach" is "with the intention of landing".........
i.e. an "approach to land". And "Go-around" implies a climbing manoeuvre,
not one that goes parallel to the ground.....
All the EASA regs over here are so tight there is a glossary and definition of
just about every aviation term!
Even so, there's a good adage over here in that where there is more than one "interpretation",
the only time anyone ever finds out what it really means is when
they are in court over it!
Regards,
Nigel Willson
Flying Instructor & Examiner | Airshow Organiser | Display Pilot
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bitterlich, Mark G CIV NAVAIR, WD
Sent: 08 September 2017 19:25
Subject: . Yak-List: Low Pass Engine Sputter
--> <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
Well, it was a good suggestion, so I looked for the direct quote for operations
in THIS country.
Please note, there is no requirement for any specific aircraft configuration, no
specific speed, and no specific altitude required.
This quote is directly from the most recent Airman's Information Manual, published
by the FAA.
4312. Low Approach
a. A low approach (sometimes referred to as a low
pass) is the goaround maneuver following an approach. Instead of landing or making
a touchand go, a pilot may wish to go around (low approach) in order to expedite
a particular operation (a series of practice instrument approaches is an
example of such an operation). Unless otherwise authorized by ATC, the low approach
should be made straight ahead, with no turns or climb made until the pilot
has made a thorough visual check for other aircraft in the area.
b. When operating within a Class B, Class C, and Class D surface area, a pilot
intending to make a low approach should contact the tower for approval. This request
should be made prior to starting the final approach.
c. When operating to an airport, not within a Class B, Class C, and Class D surface
area, a pilot intending to make a low approach should, prior to leaving the
final approach fix inbound (nonprecision
approach) or the outer marker or fix used in lieu of the outer marker inbound (precision
approach), so advise the FSS, UNICOM, or make a broadcast as appropriate.
REFERENCEAIM, Paragraph 419 , Traffic Advisory Practices
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Nigel Willson
Sent: Friday, September 08, 2017 1:56 PM
Subject: [Non-DoD Source] RE: Yak-List: Low Pass Engine Sputter
--> <nigel.willson@yakdisplay.com>
Suggest you check out and read SERA - especially if you live in the nl......
Regards,
Nigel Willson
Flying Instructor & Examiner | Airshow Organiser | Display Pilot
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Hans Oortman
Sent: 08 September 2017 18:45
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Low Pass Engine Sputter
In what galaxy are you living?
Verstuurd vanaf mijn iPad
> Op 8 sep. 2017 om 18:16 heeft L129bs <l129bs@gmail.com> het volgende geschreven:
>
> well, low passes are illegal. So do them. problem solved.
>
>
> Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.
>
>
> -------- Original message --------
> From: bmsim <bmsim@hotmail.com>
> Date:2017/09/08 9:54 AM (GMT-07:00)
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Cc:
> Subject: Yak-List: Low Pass Engine Sputter
>
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: Low Pass Engine Sputter |
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Message 23
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| Subject: | Low Pass Engine Sputter |
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Message 24
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|
| Subject: | Re: Low Pass Engine Sputter |
Hey, I've got a flat tire, anybody know how to change it?
Well, running over nails is illegal in Zimbabwe.
Sweet, thanks.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=472657#472657
Message 25
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| Subject: | Re: Low Pass Engine Sputter |
Hi Nigel ... thank you for the informative exchange ... how does EASA handle touch
and gos?
Typos courtesy of Siri
> On Sep 8, 2017, at 14:44, Nigel Willson <nigel.willson@yakdisplay.com> wrote:
>
>
> I'm not going to argue over your rules over there, but I guess the crux of the
matter is the legal interpretation of "approach" and "go-around manoeuvre"
in the FAA.
>
> Over here the definition of "approach" is "with the intention of landing".........
i.e. an "approach to land". And "Go-around" implies a climbing manoeuvre,
not one that goes parallel to the ground.....
>
> All the EASA regs over here are so tight there is a glossary and definition of
just about every aviation term!
>
> Even so, there's a good adage over here in that where there is more than one
"interpretation", the only time anyone ever finds out what it really means is
when they are in court over it!
>
> Regards,
> Nigel Willson
> Flying Instructor & Examiner | Airshow Organiser | Display Pilot
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bitterlich, Mark G CIV NAVAIR, WD
> Sent: 08 September 2017 19:25
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Subject: . Yak-List: Low Pass Engine Sputter
>
> --> <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
>
> Well, it was a good suggestion, so I looked for the direct quote for operations
in THIS country.
>
> Please note, there is no requirement for any specific aircraft configuration,
no specific speed, and no specific altitude required.
>
> This quote is directly from the most recent Airman's Information Manual, published
by the FAA.
>
> 4312. Low Approach
> a. A low approach (sometimes referred to as a low
> pass) is the goaround maneuver following an approach. Instead of landing or making
a touchand go, a pilot may wish to go around (low approach) in order to
expedite a particular operation (a series of practice instrument approaches is
an example of such an operation). Unless otherwise authorized by ATC, the low
approach should be made straight ahead, with no turns or climb made until the
pilot has made a thorough visual check for other aircraft in the area.
> b. When operating within a Class B, Class C, and Class D surface area, a pilot
intending to make a low approach should contact the tower for approval. This
request should be made prior to starting the final approach.
> c. When operating to an airport, not within a Class B, Class C, and Class D surface
area, a pilot intending to make a low approach should, prior to leaving
the final approach fix inbound (nonprecision
> approach) or the outer marker or fix used in lieu of the outer marker inbound
(precision approach), so advise the FSS, UNICOM, or make a broadcast as appropriate.
> REFERENCEAIM, Paragraph 419 , Traffic Advisory Practices
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Nigel Willson
> Sent: Friday, September 08, 2017 1:56 PM
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Subject: [Non-DoD Source] RE: Yak-List: Low Pass Engine Sputter
>
> --> <nigel.willson@yakdisplay.com>
>
> Suggest you check out and read SERA - especially if you live in the nl......
>
>
> Regards,
> Nigel Willson
> Flying Instructor & Examiner | Airshow Organiser | Display Pilot
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Hans Oortman
> Sent: 08 September 2017 18:45
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Low Pass Engine Sputter
>
>
> In what galaxy are you living?
>
> Verstuurd vanaf mijn iPad
>
>> Op 8 sep. 2017 om 18:16 heeft L129bs <l129bs@gmail.com> het volgende geschreven:
>>
>> well, low passes are illegal. So do them. problem solved.
>>
>>
>>
>> Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.
>>
>>
>> -------- Original message --------
>> From: bmsim <bmsim@hotmail.com>
>> Date:2017/09/08 9:54 AM (GMT-07:00)
>> To: yak-list@matronics.com
>> Cc:
>> Subject: Yak-List: Low Pass Engine Sputter
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 26
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|
| Subject: | Low Pass Engine Sputter |
Touch and Go's are fine, because the pilots intention is to land, OR to do a go-around.
Specifically in SERA (Standardised European Rules of the Air), the ability to descend
below 500ft is ONLY allowed when on an APPROACH (to land in accordance
with normal aviation practice) at an airfield (which could be an airfield, or
a farm strip).
If you specifically have no intention to land, or do a touch and go, or a GO-AROUND
(a climbing manoeuvre following an Approach [to land remember!] in which
the pilot elects not to land), then the exemption from the 500ft rule does not
apply.
Specifically, your intention to do none of the above is conceived by you approaching
in the wrong configuration, and/or at the wrong speed.
i.e. If you come in from a dive at aerobatic power doing 150kt when your landing
speed is 70kt, you clearly had no intention of landing, and therefore the exemption
to fly below 500ft does not apply. You are therefore breaking the Rules
of the Air.
Some people also mis-interpret the "break to land", and treat that as a reason
to do really low fly-pasts down the runway.
Again, specifically, a "break to land" is purely to enable the speed to be bled
off in the subsequent climbing high angle of bank turn (i.e lots of drag) onto
the downwind leg to get in a position (speed limiting range) to be able to lower
the gear. Technically, the "break" along the runway is 500ft lower than the
standard published circuit height for the airfield concerned, OR 500ft minimum
- whichever is higher.
If someone wishes to do a "low fly-by", then specific permission (exemption from
the rules) has to be obtained in advance from the AUTHORIITY (since they are
the ONLY ones that can give you that permission to break the rules (ATC certainly
cannot do this) for which a charge (i.e. MONEY) is made), and that permission
will only be given for a specific date, time, place, pilot and aircraft as
a one-off.
Even as a "Display Pilot" I have to abide by the rules, unless I have an exemption
to either practice, or if at an actual display (and then a whole load of other
rules also come into play)!
Regards,
Nigel Willson
Flying Instructor & Examiner | Airshow Organiser | Display Pilot
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of William Halverson
Sent: 08 September 2017 20:55
Subject: Re: . Yak-List: Low Pass Engine Sputter
Hi Nigel ... thank you for the informative exchange ... how does EASA handle touch
and gos?
Typos courtesy of Siri
> On Sep 8, 2017, at 14:44, Nigel Willson <nigel.willson@yakdisplay.com> wrote:
>
> --> <nigel.willson@yakdisplay.com>
>
> I'm not going to argue over your rules over there, but I guess the crux of the
matter is the legal interpretation of "approach" and "go-around manoeuvre"
in the FAA.
>
> Over here the definition of "approach" is "with the intention of landing".........
i.e. an "approach to land". And "Go-around" implies a climbing manoeuvre,
not one that goes parallel to the ground.....
>
> All the EASA regs over here are so tight there is a glossary and definition of
just about every aviation term!
>
> Even so, there's a good adage over here in that where there is more than one
"interpretation", the only time anyone ever finds out what it really means is
when they are in court over it!
>
> Regards,
> Nigel Willson
> Flying Instructor & Examiner | Airshow Organiser | Display Pilot
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bitterlich,
> Mark G CIV NAVAIR, WD
> Sent: 08 September 2017 19:25
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Subject: . Yak-List: Low Pass Engine Sputter
>
> --> <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
>
> Well, it was a good suggestion, so I looked for the direct quote for operations
in THIS country.
>
> Please note, there is no requirement for any specific aircraft configuration,
no specific speed, and no specific altitude required.
>
> This quote is directly from the most recent Airman's Information Manual, published
by the FAA.
>
> 4312. Low Approach
> a. A low approach (sometimes referred to as a low
> pass) is the goaround maneuver following an approach. Instead of landing or making
a touchand go, a pilot may wish to go around (low approach) in order to
expedite a particular operation (a series of practice instrument approaches is
an example of such an operation). Unless otherwise authorized by ATC, the low
approach should be made straight ahead, with no turns or climb made until the
pilot has made a thorough visual check for other aircraft in the area.
> b. When operating within a Class B, Class C, and Class D surface area, a pilot
intending to make a low approach should contact the tower for approval. This
request should be made prior to starting the final approach.
> c. When operating to an airport, not within a Class B, Class C, and
> Class D surface area, a pilot intending to make a low approach should,
> prior to leaving the final approach fix inbound (nonprecision
> approach) or the outer marker or fix used in lieu of the outer marker inbound
(precision approach), so advise the FSS, UNICOM, or make a broadcast as appropriate.
> REFERENCEAIM, Paragraph 419 , Traffic Advisory Practices
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Nigel
> Willson
> Sent: Friday, September 08, 2017 1:56 PM
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Subject: [Non-DoD Source] RE: Yak-List: Low Pass Engine Sputter
>
> --> <nigel.willson@yakdisplay.com>
>
> Suggest you check out and read SERA - especially if you live in the
> nl......
>
>
> Regards,
> Nigel Willson
> Flying Instructor & Examiner | Airshow Organiser | Display Pilot
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Hans Oortman
> Sent: 08 September 2017 18:45
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Low Pass Engine Sputter
>
>
> In what galaxy are you living?
>
> Verstuurd vanaf mijn iPad
>
>> Op 8 sep. 2017 om 18:16 heeft L129bs <l129bs@gmail.com> het volgende geschreven:
>>
>> well, low passes are illegal. So do them. problem solved.
>>
>>
>>
>> Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.
>>
>>
>> -------- Original message --------
>> From: bmsim <bmsim@hotmail.com>
>> Date:2017/09/08 9:54 AM (GMT-07:00)
>> To: yak-list@matronics.com
>> Cc:
>> Subject: Yak-List: Low Pass Engine Sputter
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 27
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|
| Subject: | Re: Low Pass Engine Sputter |
Gentlemen. Not to say your inputs on low passes are not valid, but. The real question
here was, and is, what is causing the sputter on pull up. With the engine
doing this what guarantees that it will not progress to a much worse condition.
Go back to the original question. You have all been distracted from the
original reason and question for the post. By saying don't make a low pass, then
even a more problem solver would be to recommend park the airplane and just
don't fly it again. Not practical. But thank you all for the low pass legal
posts. Gary G. N22YK. LAS
Sent from my iPad
> On Sep 8, 2017, at 13:29, Nigel Willson <nigel.willson@yakdisplay.com> wrote:
>
>
> Touch and Go's are fine, because the pilots intention is to land, OR to do a
go-around.
>
> Specifically in SERA (Standardised European Rules of the Air), the ability to
descend below 500ft is ONLY allowed when on an APPROACH (to land in accordance
with normal aviation practice) at an airfield (which could be an airfield, or
a farm strip).
>
> If you specifically have no intention to land, or do a touch and go, or a GO-AROUND
(a climbing manoeuvre following an Approach [to land remember!] in which
the pilot elects not to land), then the exemption from the 500ft rule does not
apply.
>
> Specifically, your intention to do none of the above is conceived by you approaching
in the wrong configuration, and/or at the wrong speed.
>
> i.e. If you come in from a dive at aerobatic power doing 150kt when your landing
speed is 70kt, you clearly had no intention of landing, and therefore the
exemption to fly below 500ft does not apply. You are therefore breaking the Rules
of the Air.
>
> Some people also mis-interpret the "break to land", and treat that as a reason
to do really low fly-pasts down the runway.
>
> Again, specifically, a "break to land" is purely to enable the speed to be bled
off in the subsequent climbing high angle of bank turn (i.e lots of drag) onto
the downwind leg to get in a position (speed limiting range) to be able to
lower the gear. Technically, the "break" along the runway is 500ft lower than
the standard published circuit height for the airfield concerned, OR 500ft minimum
- whichever is higher.
>
> If someone wishes to do a "low fly-by", then specific permission (exemption from
the rules) has to be obtained in advance from the AUTHORIITY (since they are
the ONLY ones that can give you that permission to break the rules (ATC certainly
cannot do this) for which a charge (i.e. MONEY) is made), and that permission
will only be given for a specific date, time, place, pilot and aircraft
as a one-off.
>
> Even as a "Display Pilot" I have to abide by the rules, unless I have an exemption
to either practice, or if at an actual display (and then a whole load of
other rules also come into play)!
>
>
> Regards,
> Nigel Willson
> Flying Instructor & Examiner | Airshow Organiser | Display Pilot
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of William Halverson
> Sent: 08 September 2017 20:55
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: . Yak-List: Low Pass Engine Sputter
>
>
> Hi Nigel ... thank you for the informative exchange ... how does EASA handle
touch and gos?
>
> Typos courtesy of Siri
>
>> On Sep 8, 2017, at 14:44, Nigel Willson <nigel.willson@yakdisplay.com> wrote:
>>
>> --> <nigel.willson@yakdisplay.com>
>>
>> I'm not going to argue over your rules over there, but I guess the crux of the
matter is the legal interpretation of "approach" and "go-around manoeuvre"
in the FAA.
>>
>> Over here the definition of "approach" is "with the intention of landing".........
i.e. an "approach to land". And "Go-around" implies a climbing manoeuvre,
not one that goes parallel to the ground.....
>>
>> All the EASA regs over here are so tight there is a glossary and definition
of just about every aviation term!
>>
>> Even so, there's a good adage over here in that where there is more than one
"interpretation", the only time anyone ever finds out what it really means is
when they are in court over it!
>>
>> Regards,
>> Nigel Willson
>> Flying Instructor & Examiner | Airshow Organiser | Display Pilot
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
>> [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bitterlich,
>> Mark G CIV NAVAIR, WD
>> Sent: 08 September 2017 19:25
>> To: yak-list@matronics.com
>> Subject: . Yak-List: Low Pass Engine Sputter
>>
>> --> <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
>>
>> Well, it was a good suggestion, so I looked for the direct quote for operations
in THIS country.
>>
>> Please note, there is no requirement for any specific aircraft configuration,
no specific speed, and no specific altitude required.
>>
>> This quote is directly from the most recent Airman's Information Manual, published
by the FAA.
>>
>> 4312. Low Approach
>> a. A low approach (sometimes referred to as a low
>> pass) is the goaround maneuver following an approach. Instead of landing or
making a touchand go, a pilot may wish to go around (low approach) in order to
expedite a particular operation (a series of practice instrument approaches is
an example of such an operation). Unless otherwise authorized by ATC, the low
approach should be made straight ahead, with no turns or climb made until the
pilot has made a thorough visual check for other aircraft in the area.
>> b. When operating within a Class B, Class C, and Class D surface area, a pilot
intending to make a low approach should contact the tower for approval. This
request should be made prior to starting the final approach.
>> c. When operating to an airport, not within a Class B, Class C, and
>> Class D surface area, a pilot intending to make a low approach should,
>> prior to leaving the final approach fix inbound (nonprecision
>> approach) or the outer marker or fix used in lieu of the outer marker inbound
(precision approach), so advise the FSS, UNICOM, or make a broadcast as appropriate.
>> REFERENCEAIM, Paragraph 419 , Traffic Advisory Practices
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
>> [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Nigel
>> Willson
>> Sent: Friday, September 08, 2017 1:56 PM
>> To: yak-list@matronics.com
>> Subject: [Non-DoD Source] RE: Yak-List: Low Pass Engine Sputter
>>
>> --> <nigel.willson@yakdisplay.com>
>>
>> Suggest you check out and read SERA - especially if you live in the
>> nl......
>>
>>
>> Regards,
>> Nigel Willson
>> Flying Instructor & Examiner | Airshow Organiser | Display Pilot
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
>> [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Hans Oortman
>> Sent: 08 September 2017 18:45
>> To: yak-list@matronics.com
>> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Low Pass Engine Sputter
>>
>>
>> In what galaxy are you living?
>>
>> Verstuurd vanaf mijn iPad
>>
>>> Op 8 sep. 2017 om 18:16 heeft L129bs <l129bs@gmail.com> het volgende geschreven:
>>>
>>> well, low passes are illegal. So do them. problem solved.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.
>>>
>>>
>>> -------- Original message --------
>>> From: bmsim <bmsim@hotmail.com>
>>> Date:2017/09/08 9:54 AM (GMT-07:00)
>>> To: yak-list@matronics.com
>>> Cc:
>>> Subject: Yak-List: Low Pass Engine Sputter
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
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Message 28
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| Subject: | Re: Low Pass Engine Sputter |
Thank you Sir!
Typos courtesy of Siri
> On Sep 8, 2017, at 16:29, Nigel Willson <nigel.willson@yakdisplay.com> wrote:
>
>
> Touch and Go's are fine, because the pilots intention is to land, OR to do a
go-around.
>
> Specifically in SERA (Standardised European Rules of the Air), the ability to
descend below 500ft is ONLY allowed when on an APPROACH (to land in accordance
with normal aviation practice) at an airfield (which could be an airfield, or
a farm strip).
>
> If you specifically have no intention to land, or do a touch and go, or a GO-AROUND
(a climbing manoeuvre following an Approach [to land remember!] in which
the pilot elects not to land), then the exemption from the 500ft rule does not
apply.
>
> Specifically, your intention to do none of the above is conceived by you approaching
in the wrong configuration, and/or at the wrong speed.
>
> i.e. If you come in from a dive at aerobatic power doing 150kt when your landing
speed is 70kt, you clearly had no intention of landing, and therefore the
exemption to fly below 500ft does not apply. You are therefore breaking the Rules
of the Air.
>
> Some people also mis-interpret the "break to land", and treat that as a reason
to do really low fly-pasts down the runway.
>
> Again, specifically, a "break to land" is purely to enable the speed to be bled
off in the subsequent climbing high angle of bank turn (i.e lots of drag) onto
the downwind leg to get in a position (speed limiting range) to be able to
lower the gear. Technically, the "break" along the runway is 500ft lower than
the standard published circuit height for the airfield concerned, OR 500ft minimum
- whichever is higher.
>
> If someone wishes to do a "low fly-by", then specific permission (exemption from
the rules) has to be obtained in advance from the AUTHORIITY (since they are
the ONLY ones that can give you that permission to break the rules (ATC certainly
cannot do this) for which a charge (i.e. MONEY) is made), and that permission
will only be given for a specific date, time, place, pilot and aircraft
as a one-off.
>
> Even as a "Display Pilot" I have to abide by the rules, unless I have an exemption
to either practice, or if at an actual display (and then a whole load of
other rules also come into play)!
>
>
> Regards,
> Nigel Willson
> Flying Instructor & Examiner | Airshow Organiser | Display Pilot
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of William Halverson
> Sent: 08 September 2017 20:55
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: . Yak-List: Low Pass Engine Sputter
>
>
> Hi Nigel ... thank you for the informative exchange ... how does EASA handle
touch and gos?
>
> Typos courtesy of Siri
>
>> On Sep 8, 2017, at 14:44, Nigel Willson <nigel.willson@yakdisplay.com> wrote:
>>
>> --> <nigel.willson@yakdisplay.com>
>>
>> I'm not going to argue over your rules over there, but I guess the crux of the
matter is the legal interpretation of "approach" and "go-around manoeuvre"
in the FAA.
>>
>> Over here the definition of "approach" is "with the intention of landing".........
i.e. an "approach to land". And "Go-around" implies a climbing manoeuvre,
not one that goes parallel to the ground.....
>>
>> All the EASA regs over here are so tight there is a glossary and definition
of just about every aviation term!
>>
>> Even so, there's a good adage over here in that where there is more than one
"interpretation", the only time anyone ever finds out what it really means is
when they are in court over it!
>>
>> Regards,
>> Nigel Willson
>> Flying Instructor & Examiner | Airshow Organiser | Display Pilot
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
>> [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bitterlich,
>> Mark G CIV NAVAIR, WD
>> Sent: 08 September 2017 19:25
>> To: yak-list@matronics.com
>> Subject: . Yak-List: Low Pass Engine Sputter
>>
>> --> <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
>>
>> Well, it was a good suggestion, so I looked for the direct quote for operations
in THIS country.
>>
>> Please note, there is no requirement for any specific aircraft configuration,
no specific speed, and no specific altitude required.
>>
>> This quote is directly from the most recent Airman's Information Manual, published
by the FAA.
>>
>> 4312. Low Approach
>> a. A low approach (sometimes referred to as a low
>> pass) is the goaround maneuver following an approach. Instead of landing or
making a touchand go, a pilot may wish to go around (low approach) in order to
expedite a particular operation (a series of practice instrument approaches is
an example of such an operation). Unless otherwise authorized by ATC, the low
approach should be made straight ahead, with no turns or climb made until the
pilot has made a thorough visual check for other aircraft in the area.
>> b. When operating within a Class B, Class C, and Class D surface area, a pilot
intending to make a low approach should contact the tower for approval. This
request should be made prior to starting the final approach.
>> c. When operating to an airport, not within a Class B, Class C, and
>> Class D surface area, a pilot intending to make a low approach should,
>> prior to leaving the final approach fix inbound (nonprecision
>> approach) or the outer marker or fix used in lieu of the outer marker inbound
(precision approach), so advise the FSS, UNICOM, or make a broadcast as appropriate.
>> REFERENCEAIM, Paragraph 419 , Traffic Advisory Practices
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
>> [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Nigel
>> Willson
>> Sent: Friday, September 08, 2017 1:56 PM
>> To: yak-list@matronics.com
>> Subject: [Non-DoD Source] RE: Yak-List: Low Pass Engine Sputter
>>
>> --> <nigel.willson@yakdisplay.com>
>>
>> Suggest you check out and read SERA - especially if you live in the
>> nl......
>>
>>
>> Regards,
>> Nigel Willson
>> Flying Instructor & Examiner | Airshow Organiser | Display Pilot
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
>> [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Hans Oortman
>> Sent: 08 September 2017 18:45
>> To: yak-list@matronics.com
>> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Low Pass Engine Sputter
>>
>>
>> In what galaxy are you living?
>>
>> Verstuurd vanaf mijn iPad
>>
>>> Op 8 sep. 2017 om 18:16 heeft L129bs <l129bs@gmail.com> het volgende geschreven:
>>>
>>> well, low passes are illegal. So do them. problem solved.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.
>>>
>>>
>>> -------- Original message --------
>>> From: bmsim <bmsim@hotmail.com>
>>> Date:2017/09/08 9:54 AM (GMT-07:00)
>>> To: yak-list@matronics.com
>>> Cc:
>>> Subject: Yak-List: Low Pass Engine Sputter
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
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Message 29
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| Subject: | Re: Low Pass Engine Sputter |
Bill my Yak did this once I happened to be over an airport (doing a loop) a
nd landed immediately looked over the engine did a lot of fuel sampling fou
nd nothing did a lot running up before going home. Got home and found water
in the 5" fuel ball on the firewall check ALL your sumps. Bill Wade N4450Y
=C2-
From: bmsim <bmsim@hotmail.com>
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, September 8, 2017 12:04 PM
Subject: Yak-List: Low Pass Engine Sputter
Hi Everyone,
Hopefully someone has some input on this.=C2- My Yak has exhibited a stra
nge high pucker factor behavior on the last two low passes I have done.=C2
- Last week, after a normal flight, some gentle aero, loops, barrel rolls
, etc., I came back in and did a low pass over the runway, pulling up at th
e end, not really hard, but the engine sputtered like it would on a bad mag
.=C2- I leveled off, joined the pattern, and had an uneventful landing.
=C2-
Yesterday, I took her back up for a test flight, took off and she ran like
a top.=C2- I spiraled up over the airport just in case there were any hic
cups - nothing.=C2- Did a loop, nothing, ran perfectly.=C2- So I levele
d off and flew around the area a bit.=C2- I ended up on the same far end
of the runway, so I set up for a low pass.=C2- About 3/4 of the way down
the runway, same sputter again, so I gently joined the pattern and put her
down for another uneventful landing.=C2- Engine ran perfectly and there w
ere no hiccups or anything in the pattern, or on the ground after another r
unup.
Does anyone have any idea what could cause something like this.=C2- Obvio
usly with only 2 occurrences happening during a low pass it is too soon to
directly correlate the behavior with the low pass scenario, however, at the
same time the fact cant be ignored that it happened twice only in the midd
le of a low pass.
I'm going to fly this afternoon, spiral up over the field, and see how she
runs. No more low passes or flight away from the field until I can determin
e what is going on.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=472626#472626
S -
WIKI -
-
=C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
Message 30
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| Subject: | Re: . Low Pass Engine Sputter |
The UK seems like a fun place.
We allegedly used to routinely do buzz and break landings in the L29 here in NZ.
The guys in the tower didn't think we were trying hard enough until they could
look down on us as we went past.
There are rules of course, and we followed them.... except they used to make us
buzz parallel to the runway, which put the fear of God into a foreign operator
in their 777 as they were taxiing along one day when we flew over them at an
undisclosed altitude doing 249.5 knots (speed limit is 250 under 10k feet).
For some reason the tower asked us to buzz down the runway centreline after that.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=472662#472662
Message 31
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|
| Subject: | Re: Low Pass Engine Sputter |
True ... would have to know dew point, temp, press, etc. plus other factors to
understand what the root cause of the problem was ....
Typos courtesy of Siri
> On Sep 8, 2017, at 16:42, ggg6@att.net wrote:
>
>
> Gentlemen. Not to say your inputs on low passes are not valid, but. The real
question here was, and is, what is causing the sputter on pull up. With the engine
doing this what guarantees that it will not progress to a much worse condition.
Go back to the original question. You have all been distracted from the
original reason and question for the post. By saying don't make a low pass,
then even a more problem solver would be to recommend park the airplane and just
don't fly it again. Not practical. But thank you all for the low pass legal
posts. Gary G. N22YK. LAS
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
>> On Sep 8, 2017, at 13:29, Nigel Willson <nigel.willson@yakdisplay.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>> Touch and Go's are fine, because the pilots intention is to land, OR to do a
go-around.
>>
>> Specifically in SERA (Standardised European Rules of the Air), the ability to
descend below 500ft is ONLY allowed when on an APPROACH (to land in accordance
with normal aviation practice) at an airfield (which could be an airfield,
or a farm strip).
>>
>> If you specifically have no intention to land, or do a touch and go, or a GO-AROUND
(a climbing manoeuvre following an Approach [to land remember!] in which
the pilot elects not to land), then the exemption from the 500ft rule does
not apply.
>>
>> Specifically, your intention to do none of the above is conceived by you approaching
in the wrong configuration, and/or at the wrong speed.
>>
>> i.e. If you come in from a dive at aerobatic power doing 150kt when your landing
speed is 70kt, you clearly had no intention of landing, and therefore the
exemption to fly below 500ft does not apply. You are therefore breaking the Rules
of the Air.
>>
>> Some people also mis-interpret the "break to land", and treat that as a reason
to do really low fly-pasts down the runway.
>>
>> Again, specifically, a "break to land" is purely to enable the speed to be bled
off in the subsequent climbing high angle of bank turn (i.e lots of drag)
onto the downwind leg to get in a position (speed limiting range) to be able to
lower the gear. Technically, the "break" along the runway is 500ft lower than
the standard published circuit height for the airfield concerned, OR 500ft minimum
- whichever is higher.
>>
>> If someone wishes to do a "low fly-by", then specific permission (exemption
from the rules) has to be obtained in advance from the AUTHORIITY (since they
are the ONLY ones that can give you that permission to break the rules (ATC certainly
cannot do this) for which a charge (i.e. MONEY) is made), and that permission
will only be given for a specific date, time, place, pilot and aircraft
as a one-off.
>>
>> Even as a "Display Pilot" I have to abide by the rules, unless I have an exemption
to either practice, or if at an actual display (and then a whole load of
other rules also come into play)!
>>
>>
>> Regards,
>> Nigel Willson
>> Flying Instructor & Examiner | Airshow Organiser | Display Pilot
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of William Halverson
>> Sent: 08 September 2017 20:55
>> To: yak-list@matronics.com
>> Subject: Re: . Yak-List: Low Pass Engine Sputter
>>
>>
>> Hi Nigel ... thank you for the informative exchange ... how does EASA handle
touch and gos?
>>
>> Typos courtesy of Siri
>>
>>> On Sep 8, 2017, at 14:44, Nigel Willson <nigel.willson@yakdisplay.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> --> <nigel.willson@yakdisplay.com>
>>>
>>> I'm not going to argue over your rules over there, but I guess the crux of
the matter is the legal interpretation of "approach" and "go-around manoeuvre"
in the FAA.
>>>
>>> Over here the definition of "approach" is "with the intention of landing".........
i.e. an "approach to land". And "Go-around" implies a climbing manoeuvre,
not one that goes parallel to the ground.....
>>>
>>> All the EASA regs over here are so tight there is a glossary and definition
of just about every aviation term!
>>>
>>> Even so, there's a good adage over here in that where there is more than one
"interpretation", the only time anyone ever finds out what it really means is
when they are in court over it!
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>> Nigel Willson
>>> Flying Instructor & Examiner | Airshow Organiser | Display Pilot
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
>>> [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bitterlich,
>>> Mark G CIV NAVAIR, WD
>>> Sent: 08 September 2017 19:25
>>> To: yak-list@matronics.com
>>> Subject: . Yak-List: Low Pass Engine Sputter
>>>
>>> --> <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
>>>
>>> Well, it was a good suggestion, so I looked for the direct quote for operations
in THIS country.
>>>
>>> Please note, there is no requirement for any specific aircraft configuration,
no specific speed, and no specific altitude required.
>>>
>>> This quote is directly from the most recent Airman's Information Manual, published
by the FAA.
>>>
>>> 4312. Low Approach
>>> a. A low approach (sometimes referred to as a low
>>> pass) is the goaround maneuver following an approach. Instead of landing or
making a touchand go, a pilot may wish to go around (low approach) in order to
expedite a particular operation (a series of practice instrument approaches
is an example of such an operation). Unless otherwise authorized by ATC, the low
approach should be made straight ahead, with no turns or climb made until the
pilot has made a thorough visual check for other aircraft in the area.
>>> b. When operating within a Class B, Class C, and Class D surface area, a pilot
intending to make a low approach should contact the tower for approval. This
request should be made prior to starting the final approach.
>>> c. When operating to an airport, not within a Class B, Class C, and
>>> Class D surface area, a pilot intending to make a low approach should,
>>> prior to leaving the final approach fix inbound (nonprecision
>>> approach) or the outer marker or fix used in lieu of the outer marker inbound
(precision approach), so advise the FSS, UNICOM, or make a broadcast as appropriate.
>>> REFERENCEAIM, Paragraph 419 , Traffic Advisory Practices
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
>>> [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Nigel
>>> Willson
>>> Sent: Friday, September 08, 2017 1:56 PM
>>> To: yak-list@matronics.com
>>> Subject: [Non-DoD Source] RE: Yak-List: Low Pass Engine Sputter
>>>
>>> --> <nigel.willson@yakdisplay.com>
>>>
>>> Suggest you check out and read SERA - especially if you live in the
>>> nl......
>>>
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>> Nigel Willson
>>> Flying Instructor & Examiner | Airshow Organiser | Display Pilot
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
>>> [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Hans Oortman
>>> Sent: 08 September 2017 18:45
>>> To: yak-list@matronics.com
>>> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Low Pass Engine Sputter
>>>
>>>
>>> In what galaxy are you living?
>>>
>>> Verstuurd vanaf mijn iPad
>>>
>>>> Op 8 sep. 2017 om 18:16 heeft L129bs <l129bs@gmail.com> het volgende geschreven:
>>>>
>>>> well, low passes are illegal. So do them. problem solved.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -------- Original message --------
>>>> From: bmsim <bmsim@hotmail.com>
>>>> Date:2017/09/08 9:54 AM (GMT-07:00)
>>>> To: yak-list@matronics.com
>>>> Cc:
>>>> Subject: Yak-List: Low Pass Engine Sputter
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
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Message 32
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| Subject: | Re: . Low Pass Engine Sputter |
The only time my L-29 did 249.5 knots was downhill!
Ernie
On Fri, Sep 8, 2017 at 4:52 PM Looigi <cdoburton@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> The UK seems like a fun place.
>
> We allegedly used to routinely do buzz and break landings in the L29 here
> in NZ. The guys in the tower didn't think we were trying hard enough until
> they could look down on us as we went past.
>
> There are rules of course, and we followed them.... except they used to
> make us buzz parallel to the runway, which put the fear of God into a
> foreign operator in their 777 as they were taxiing along one day when we
> flew over them at an undisclosed altitude doing 249.5 knots (speed limit is
> 250 under 10k feet). For some reason the tower asked us to buzz down the
> runway centreline after that.
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=472662#472662
>
>
Message 33
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| Subject: | Re: . Low Pass Engine Sputter |
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Message 34
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| Subject: | Re: Low Pass Engine Sputter |
My Yaks never did this but my good friend had the exact problem you describe we
were told that 25w60 would cause it-- made no sense to me as an engineer but
we went back to shell 120 and the problem went away.
Sent from my iPad
> On Sep 8, 2017, at 12:32 PM, Bitterlich, Mark G CIV NAVAIR, WD <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
wrote:
>
>
> Oh darn. I'm sorry. The message was from Bill Geipel. Disregard.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Bitterlich, Mark G CIV NAVAIR, WD
> Sent: Friday, September 08, 2017 1:26 PM
> To: 'yak-list@matronics.com'
> Subject: Yak-List: Low Pass Engine Sputter
>
> Seriously? What country are you from?
>
> http://www.cfinotebook.net/notebook/aircraft-operations/approaches/low-approach
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of L129bs
> Sent: Friday, September 08, 2017 12:16 PM
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Subject: [Non-DoD Source] RE: Yak-List: Low Pass Engine Sputter
>
> well, low passes are illegal. So do them. problem solved.
>
>
>
> Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.
>
>
>
> -------- Original message --------
> From: bmsim <bmsim@hotmail.com>
> Date:2017/09/08 9:54 AM (GMT-07:00)
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Cc:
> Subject: Yak-List: Low Pass Engine Sputter
>
>
>
>
>
>
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