Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 08:49 AM - Gear up or down....forced landing (HawkerPilot2015)
2. 09:37 AM - Re: Gear up or down....forced landing (George S. Coy)
3. 09:50 AM - Re: Gear up or down....forced landing (JON)
4. 09:58 AM - Re: Gear up or down....forced landing (JON)
5. 10:11 AM - Re: Gear up or down....forced landing (doug sapp)
6. 10:18 AM - Re: Gear up or down....forced landing (Jean-Philippe Martel)
7. 10:34 AM - Re: Gear up or down....forced landing (Byron Fox)
8. 10:52 AM - Re: Gear up or down....forced landing (Byron Fox)
9. 11:09 AM - Re: Gear up or down....forced landing (JON)
10. 11:48 AM - Re: Gear up or down....forced landing (HawkerPilot2015)
11. 11:53 AM - Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: Gear up or down....forced landing (Bitterlich, Mark G CIV NAVAIR, WD)
12. 12:30 PM - Re: Re: Gear up or down....forced landing (doug sapp)
13. 01:08 PM - Re: Re: Gear up or down....forced landing (Byron Fox)
14. 01:56 PM - Re: Gear up or down....forced landing (jlpartington@reagan.com)
15. 02:42 PM - Re: Cost of Fobs for stores (andrew.park)
16. 06:10 PM - Re: Gear up or down....forced landing (Roger Kemp)
17. 07:42 PM - Re: Gear up or down....forced landing (Richard Kelley)
18. 09:11 PM - Re: Gear up or down....forced landing (KingCJ6@aol.com)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Gear up or down....forced landing |
I hear of people landing gear down during a rough field landing. I am curious what
the collective thinks about such a procedure. To me, if I were forced to land
in a field or other "softer" than normal terrain, I would choose gear up to
prevent the airplane flipping over or cartwheeling. Now, if it were hard packed
desert like we have here in AZ and long enough to land on, my choice may be
different. Obviously roads are just unmarked runways!
While I have your attention, lets talk about not being able to get the gear down.
Plenty of videos showing failed gear landings where the engine/s are still
swinging the prop/s. Again, for me, once I KNOW I have the runway made with a
gear up landing, I am shutting down the engine/s. No reason to completely destroy
one or two good motors because of a gear issue. What are running engine/s
doing for you as skid down the runway?
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=475310#475310
Message 2
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| Subject: | Gear up or down....forced landing |
I agree about shutting down engines. You should also shut off the fuel and
turnoff the master switch.
George
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of HawkerPilot2015
Sent: Monday, November 20, 2017 11:47 AM
Subject: Yak-List: Gear up or down....forced landing
I hear of people landing gear down during a rough field landing. I am
curious what the collective thinks about such a procedure. To me, if I were
forced to land in a field or other "softer" than normal terrain, I would
choose gear up to prevent the airplane flipping over or cartwheeling. Now,
if it were hard packed desert like we have here in AZ and long enough to
land on, my choice may be different. Obviously roads are just unmarked
runways!
While I have your attention, lets talk about not being able to get the gear
down. Plenty of videos showing failed gear landings where the engine/s are
still swinging the prop/s. Again, for me, once I KNOW I have the runway made
with a gear up landing, I am shutting down the engine/s. No reason to
completely destroy one or two good motors because of a gear issue. What are
running engine/s doing for you as skid down the runway?
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=475310#475310
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Gear up or down....forced landing |
First, I agree with you on the gear staying up on off-field landings especi
ally with an uncertain surface condition.=C2- We have thousands of peanut
, soybean and cotton patches here in "LA" (Lower Alabama) that are normally
hard enough that they might support a gear down landing, but that depends
on the recent rains, famer activity, etc. In other words, I'm most likely g
oing to down a flap down, gear up and canopy full open landing.=C2- I kno
w from experience the flap on the CJ will support the airframe in such a ca
se, but that was to a hard runway, so to an unimproved field the flap down
is still an unknown.=C2-
=C2-
Next, as for landing on a road, here's my .02 on that... as a former helico
pter driver, we were taught that "All road have wires!" so always keep that
in your mind should you chose to make a road landing.=C2- I'm certain yo
u've thought about the flow of traffic... I was taught to land with traffic
regardless of winds since landing against traffic is a head-on waiting to
happen because drivers aren't looking up nor expecting a windshield full of
airplane.=C2- Landing with traffic at least gives you an opportunity to
merge...sort of anyway.=C2- Other things to consider about road landings
are signs and mail boxes.=C2- A friend had an engine issue in his YAK and
had to put it down on a road.=C2- Perfect landing and the roll out was g
oing great until the wingtip caught a mailbox that was cemented into the gr
ound.=C2- That spun the airplane around and ended up in the ditch.=C2-
Fortunately no personal injury, but the airplane was hurt... but at that po
int who cares, right?
=C2-
I agree with you on shutting down the engine, but my only hesitation would
be length of runway.=C2- Once you shut the engine down and you are a glid
er, you are landing, so if you over shoot, which is very likely to happen o
r you are carrying too much energy, there is no option to go around and try
again.=C2-
=C2-
To close, I suppose I would worry much less about the damage to the airplan
e, assuming you are insured, than about bodily injury.=C2-
=C2-
JB
=C2-
=C2-
----- Original Message -----
From: "HawkerPilot2015" <timsmiscaz@gmail.com>
Sent: Monday, November 20, 2017 10:47:22 AM
Subject: Yak-List: Gear up or down....forced landing
I hear of people landing gear down during a rough field landing. I am curio
us what the collective thinks about such a procedure. To me, if I were forc
ed to land in a field or other "softer" than normal terrain, I would choose
gear up to prevent the airplane flipping over or cartwheeling. Now, if it
were hard packed desert like we have here in AZ and long enough to land on,
my choice may be different. Obviously roads are just unmarked runways!
While I have your attention, lets talk about not being able to get the gear
down. Plenty of videos showing failed gear landings where the engine/s are
still swinging the prop/s. Again, for me, once I KNOW I have the runway ma
de with a gear up landing, I am shutting down the engine/s. No reason to co
mpletely destroy one or two good motors because of a gear issue. What are r
unning engine/s doing for you as skid down the runway?
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=475310#475310
===========
===========
MS -
===========
WIKI -
===========
e -
=C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2--Matt Dralle, List Admin.
===========
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Gear up or down....forced landing |
Oops... should read I'm most likely going to land FLAP down a flap down, ge
ar up and canopy full open landing.
----- Original Message -----
From: "JON" <jblake207@comcast.net>
Sent: Monday, November 20, 2017 11:48:42 AM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Gear up or down....forced landing
First, I agree with you on the gear staying up on off-field landings especi
ally with an uncertain surface condition.=C2- We have thousands of peanut
, soybean and cotton patches here in "LA" (Lower Alabama) that are normally
hard enough that they might support a gear down landing, but that depends
on the recent rains, famer activity, etc. In other words, I'm most likely g
oing to down a flap down, gear up and canopy full open landing.=C2- I kno
w from experience the flap on the CJ will support the airframe in such a ca
se, but that was to a hard runway, so to an unimproved field the flap down
is still an unknown.=C2-
=C2-
Next, as for landing on a road, here's my .02 on that... as a former helico
pter driver, we were taught that "All road have wires!" so always keep that
in your mind should you chose to make a road landing.=C2- I'm certain yo
u've thought about the flow of traffic... I was taught to land with traffic
regardless of winds since landing against traffic is a head-on waiting to
happen because drivers aren't looking up nor expecting a windshield full of
airplane.=C2- Landing with traffic at least gives you an opportunity to
merge...sort of anyway.=C2- Other things to consider about road landings
are signs and mail boxes.=C2- A friend had an engine issue in his YAK and
had to put it down on a road.=C2- Perfect landing and the roll out was g
oing great until the wingtip caught a mailbox that was cemented into the gr
ound.=C2- That spun the airplane around and ended up in the ditch.=C2-
Fortunately no personal injury, but the airplane was hurt... but at that po
int who cares, right?
=C2-
I agree with you on shutting down the engine, but my only hesitation would
be length of runway.=C2- Once you shut the engine down and you are a glid
er, you are landing, so if you over shoot, which is very likely to happen o
r you are carrying too much energy, there is no option to go around and try
again.=C2-
=C2-
To close, I suppose I would worry much less about the damage to the airplan
e, assuming you are insured, than about bodily injury.=C2-
=C2-
JB
=C2-
=C2-
----- Original Message -----
From: "HawkerPilot2015" <timsmiscaz@gmail.com>
Sent: Monday, November 20, 2017 10:47:22 AM
Subject: Yak-List: Gear up or down....forced landing
I hear of people landing gear down during a rough field landing. I am curio
us what the collective thinks about such a procedure. To me, if I were forc
ed to land in a field or other "softer" than normal terrain, I would choose
gear up to prevent the airplane flipping over or cartwheeling. Now, if it
were hard packed desert like we have here in AZ and long enough to land on,
my choice may be different. Obviously roads are just unmarked runways!
While I have your attention, lets talk about not being able to get the gear
down. Plenty of videos showing failed gear landings where the engine/s are
still swinging the prop/s. Again, for me, once I KNOW I have the runway ma
de with a gear up landing, I am shutting down the engine/s. No reason to co
mpletely destroy one or two good motors because of a gear issue. What are r
unning engine/s doing for you as skid down the runway?
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=475310#475310
=C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- &nbs
=================
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Gear up or down....forced landing |
Guys,
Assuming that you are adequately insured there is only one thing to be
considered and that is to walk away from the wreckage with as little trauma
(and drama) as possible. At this point the insurance company owns your
aircraft anyway, as some one smarter than I once said: fly it as far into
the wreck as possible. Putting yourself at risk by trying to save a engine
is nonsense. On Thursday when you about to carve the turkey ask your
family what is worth more, you or your radial?
Happy Thanksgiving!
On Mon, Nov 20, 2017 at 9:48 AM, JON <jblake207@comcast.net> wrote:
> First, I agree with you on the gear staying up on off-field landings
> especially with an uncertain surface condition. We have thousands of
> peanut, soybean and cotton patches here in "LA" (Lower Alabama) that are
> normally hard enough that they might support a gear down landing, but that
> depends on the recent rains, famer activity, etc. In other words, I'm most
> likely going to down a flap down, gear up and canopy full open landing. I
> know from experience the flap on the CJ will support the airframe in such a
> case, but that was to a hard runway, so to an unimproved field the flap
> down is still an unknown.
>
> Next, as for landing on a road, here's my .02 on that... as a former
> helicopter driver, we were taught that "All road have wires!" so always
> keep that in your mind should you chose to make a road landing. I'm
> certain you've thought about the flow of traffic... I was taught to land
> with traffic regardless of winds since landing against traffic is a head-on
> waiting to happen because drivers aren't looking up nor expecting a
> windshield full of airplane. Landing with traffic at least gives you an
> opportunity to merge...sort of anyway. Other things to consider about road
> landings are signs and mail boxes. A friend had an engine issue in his YAK
> and had to put it down on a road. Perfect landing and the roll out was
> going great until the wingtip caught a mailbox that was cemented into the
> ground. That spun the airplane around and ended up in the ditch.
> Fortunately no personal injury, but the airplane was hurt... but at that
> point who cares, right?
>
> I agree with you on shutting down the engine, but my only hesitation would
> be length of runway. Once you shut the engine down and you are a glider,
> you are landing, so if you over shoot, which is very likely to happen or
> you are carrying too much energy, there is no option to go around and try
> again.
>
> To close, I suppose I would worry much less about the damage to the
> airplane, assuming you are insured, than about bodily injury.
>
> JB
>
>
> ------------------------------
> *From: *"HawkerPilot2015" <timsmiscaz@gmail.com>
> *To: *yak-list@matronics.com
> *Sent: *Monday, November 20, 2017 10:47:22 AM
> *Subject: *Yak-List: Gear up or down....forced landing
>
>
> I hear of people landing gear down during a rough field landing. I am
> curious what the collective thinks about such a procedure. To me, if I were
> forced to land in a field or other "softer" than normal terrain, I would
> choose gear up to prevent the airplane flipping over or cartwheeling. Now,
> if it were hard packed desert like we have here in AZ and long enough to
> land on, my choice may be different. Obviously roads are just unmarked
> runways!
>
> While I have your attention, lets talk about not being able to get the
> gear down. Plenty of videos showing failed gear landings where the engine/s
> are still swinging the prop/s. Again, for me, once I KNOW I have the runway
> made with a gear up landing, I am shutting down the engine/s. No reason to
> completely destroy one or two good motors because of a gear issue. What are
> running engine/s doing for you as skid down the runway?
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=475310#475310
>
>
> &nbs================
>
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Gear up or down....forced landing |
=F0=9F=91=8D
Le 20 nov. 2017 19:14, "doug sapp" <dougsappllc@gmail.com> a =C3=A9crit :
> Guys,
> Assuming that you are adequately insured there is only one thing to be
> considered and that is to walk away from the wreckage with as little trau
ma
> (and drama) as possible. At this point the insurance company owns your
> aircraft anyway, as some one smarter than I once said: fly it as far in
to
> the wreck as possible. Putting yourself at risk by trying to save a engi
ne
> is nonsense. On Thursday when you about to carve the turkey ask your
> family what is worth more, you or your radial?
>
> Happy Thanksgiving!
>
> On Mon, Nov 20, 2017 at 9:48 AM, JON <jblake207@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>> First, I agree with you on the gear staying up on off-field landings
>> especially with an uncertain surface condition. We have thousands of
>> peanut, soybean and cotton patches here in "LA" (Lower Alabama) that are
>> normally hard enough that they might support a gear down landing, but th
at
>> depends on the recent rains, famer activity, etc. In other words, I'm mo
st
>> likely going to down a flap down, gear up and canopy full open landing.
I
>> know from experience the flap on the CJ will support the airframe in suc
h a
>> case, but that was to a hard runway, so to an unimproved field the flap
>> down is still an unknown.
>>
>> Next, as for landing on a road, here's my .02 on that... as a former
>> helicopter driver, we were taught that "All road have wires!" so always
>> keep that in your mind should you chose to make a road landing. I'm
>> certain you've thought about the flow of traffic... I was taught to land
>> with traffic regardless of winds since landing against traffic is a head
-on
>> waiting to happen because drivers aren't looking up nor expecting a
>> windshield full of airplane. Landing with traffic at least gives you an
>> opportunity to merge...sort of anyway. Other things to consider about r
oad
>> landings are signs and mail boxes. A friend had an engine issue in his
YAK
>> and had to put it down on a road. Perfect landing and the roll out was
>> going great until the wingtip caught a mailbox that was cemented into th
e
>> ground. That spun the airplane around and ended up in the ditch.
>> Fortunately no personal injury, but the airplane was hurt... but at that
>> point who cares, right?
>>
>> I agree with you on shutting down the engine, but my only hesitation
>> would be length of runway. Once you shut the engine down and you are a
>> glider, you are landing, so if you over shoot, which is very likely to
>> happen or you are carrying too much energy, there is no option to go aro
und
>> and try again.
>>
>> To close, I suppose I would worry much less about the damage to the
>> airplane, assuming you are insured, than about bodily injury.
>>
>> JB
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>> *From: *"HawkerPilot2015" <timsmiscaz@gmail.com>
>> *To: *yak-list@matronics.com
>> *Sent: *Monday, November 20, 2017 10:47:22 AM
>> *Subject: *Yak-List: Gear up or down....forced landing
>>
>>
>> I hear of people landing gear down during a rough field landing. I am
>> curious what the collective thinks about such a procedure. To me, if I w
ere
>> forced to land in a field or other "softer" than normal terrain, I would
>> choose gear up to prevent the airplane flipping over or cartwheeling. No
w,
>> if it were hard packed desert like we have here in AZ and long enough to
>> land on, my choice may be different. Obviously roads are just unmarked
>> runways!
>>
>> While I have your attention, lets talk about not being able to get the
>> gear down. Plenty of videos showing failed gear landings where the engin
e/s
>> are still swinging the prop/s. Again, for me, once I KNOW I have the run
way
>> made with a gear up landing, I am shutting down the engine/s. No reason
to
>> completely destroy one or two good motors because of a gear issue. What
are
>> running engine/s doing for you as skid down the runway?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=475310#475310
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> &nbs================
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Gear up or down....forced landing |
The best advice I=99ve received came from =9CPostal.=9D
=9CWhen the engine quits, you no longer own the aircraft. It belongs t
o the insurance company.=9D
Therefore, save your butt and let the airplane be a crash cage. Canopy open (
and hope it stays open), straps tight, helmet visor down, gear up, fuel off
, and, in the immortal words of Bob Hoover, fly the airplane all the way int
o the crash.
Finally, learn about flying the =9Chigh and low key=9D forced la
nding pattern taught by the military.
Blitz Fox
415-307-2405
> On Nov 20, 2017, at 9:56 AM, JON <jblake207@comcast.net> wrote:
>
> Oops... should read I'm most likely going to land FLAP down a flap down, g
ear up and canopy full open landing.
>
> From: "JON" <jblake207@comcast.net>
> To: "Yak-List" <yak-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Monday, November 20, 2017 11:48:42 AM
> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Gear up or down....forced landing
>
> First, I agree with you on the gear staying up on off-field landings espec
ially with an uncertain surface condition. We have thousands of peanut, soy
bean and cotton patches here in "LA" (Lower Alabama) that are normally hard e
nough that they might support a gear down landing, but that depends on the r
ecent rains, famer activity, etc. In other words, I'm most likely going to d
own a flap down, gear up and canopy full open landing. I know from experien
ce the flap on the CJ will support the airframe in such a case, but that was
to a hard runway, so to an unimproved field the flap down is still an unkno
wn.
>
> Next, as for landing on a road, here's my .02 on that... as a former helic
opter driver, we were taught that "All road have wires!" so always keep that
in your mind should you chose to make a road landing. I'm certain you've t
hought about the flow of traffic... I was taught to land with traffic regard
less of winds since landing against traffic is a head-on waiting to happen b
ecause drivers aren't looking up nor expecting a windshield full of airplane
. Landing with traffic at least gives you an opportunity to merge...sort of
anyway. Other things to consider about road landings are signs and mail bo
xes. A friend had an engine issue in his YAK and had to put it down on a ro
ad. Perfect landing and the roll out was going great until the wingtip caug
ht a mailbox that was cemented into the ground. That spun the airplane arou
nd and ended up in the ditch. Fortunately no personal injury, but the airpl
ane was hurt... but at that point who cares, right?
>
> I agree with you on shutting down the engine, but my only hesitation would
be length of runway. Once you shut the engine down and you are a glider, y
ou are landing, so if you over shoot, which is very likely to happen or you a
re carrying too much energy, there is no option to go around and try again.
>
> To close, I suppose I would worry much less about the damage to the airpla
ne, assuming you are insured, than about bodily injury.
>
> JB
>
>
>
> From: "HawkerPilot2015" <timsmiscaz@gmail.com>
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Sent: Monday, November 20, 2017 10:47:22 AM
> Subject: Yak-List: Gear up or down....forced landing
>
>
> I hear of people landing gear down during a rough field landing. I am curi
ous what the collective thinks about such a procedure. To me, if I were forc
ed to land in a field or other "softer" than normal terrain, I would choose g
ear up to prevent the airplane flipping over or cartwheeling. Now, if it wer
e hard packed desert like we have here in AZ and long enough to land on, my c
hoice may be different. Obviously roads are just unmarked runways!
>
> While I have your attention, lets talk about not being able to get the gea
r down. Plenty of videos showing failed gear landings where the engine/s are
still swinging the prop/s. Again, for me, once I KNOW I have the runway mad
e with a gear up landing, I am shutting down the engine/s. No reason to comp
letely destroy one or two good motors because of a gear issue. What are runn
ing engine/s doing for you as skid down the runway?
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=475310#475310
>
>
>
>
> &nbs=================
>
>
>
>
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Gear up or down....forced landing |
Doug forgot to mention the most important element of a forced landing based o
n his successful personal experience. Land between the trees, =F0=9F=8C=B2T
=F0=9F=8C=B2 , allowing the wings to absorb the kinetic energy.
Blitz Fox
415-307-2405
> On Nov 20, 2017, at 10:16 AM, Jean-Philippe Martel <marty.jpm@gmail.com> w
rote:
>
> =F0=9F=91=8D
>
> Le 20 nov. 2017 19:14, "doug sapp" <dougsappllc@gmail.com> a =C3=A9crit :
>> Guys,
>> Assuming that you are adequately insured there is only one thing to be co
nsidered and that is to walk away from the wreckage with as little trauma (a
nd drama) as possible. At this point the insurance company owns your aircra
ft anyway, as some one smarter than I once said: fly it as far into the wr
eck as possible. Putting yourself at risk by trying to save a engine is non
sense. On Thursday when you about to carve the turkey ask your family what i
s worth more, you or your radial?
>>
>> Happy Thanksgiving!
>>
>>> On Mon, Nov 20, 2017 at 9:48 AM, JON <jblake207@comcast.net> wrote:
>>> First, I agree with you on the gear staying up on off-field landings esp
ecially with an uncertain surface condition. We have thousands of peanut, s
oybean and cotton patches here in "LA" (Lower Alabama) that are normally har
d enough that they might support a gear down landing, but that depends on th
e recent rains, famer activity, etc. In other words, I'm most likely going t
o down a flap down, gear up and canopy full open landing. I know from exper
ience the flap on the CJ will support the airframe in such a case, but that w
as to a hard runway, so to an unimproved field the flap down is still an unk
nown.
>>>
>>> Next, as for landing on a road, here's my .02 on that... as a former hel
icopter driver, we were taught that "All road have wires!" so always keep th
at in your mind should you chose to make a road landing. I'm certain you've
thought about the flow of traffic... I was taught to land with traffic rega
rdless of winds since landing against traffic is a head-on waiting to happen
because drivers aren't looking up nor expecting a windshield full of airpla
ne. Landing with traffic at least gives you an opportunity to merge...sort o
f anyway. Other things to consider about road landings are signs and mail b
oxes. A friend had an engine issue in his YAK and had to put it down on a r
oad. Perfect landing and the roll out was going great until the wingtip cau
ght a mailbox that was cemented into the ground. That spun the airplane aro
und and ended up in the ditch. Fortunately no personal injury, but the airp
lane was hurt... but at that point who cares, right?
>>>
>>> I agree with you on shutting down the engine, but my only hesitation wou
ld be length of runway. Once you shut the engine down and you are a glider,
you are landing, so if you over shoot, which is very likely to happen or yo
u are carrying too much energy, there is no option to go around and try agai
n.
>>>
>>> To close, I suppose I would worry much less about the damage to the airp
lane, assuming you are insured, than about bodily injury.
>>>
>>> JB
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> From: "HawkerPilot2015" <timsmiscaz@gmail.com>
>>> To: yak-list@matronics.com
>>> Sent: Monday, November 20, 2017 10:47:22 AM
>>> Subject: Yak-List: Gear up or down....forced landing
>>>
>>>
>>> I hear of people landing gear down during a rough field landing. I am cu
rious what the collective thinks about such a procedure. To me, if I were fo
rced to land in a field or other "softer" than normal terrain, I would choos
e gear up to prevent the airplane flipping over or cartwheeling. Now, if it w
ere hard packed desert like we have here in AZ and long enough to land on, m
y choice may be different. Obviously roads are just unmarked runways!
>>>
>>> While I have your attention, lets talk about not being able to get the g
ear down. Plenty of videos showing failed gear landings where the engine/s a
re still swinging the prop/s. Again, for me, once I KNOW I have the runway m
ade with a gear up landing, I am shutting down the engine/s. No reason to co
mpletely destroy one or two good motors because of a gear issue. What are ru
nning engine/s doing for you as skid down the runway?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Read this topic online here:
>>>
>>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=475310#475310
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> &nbs================
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Gear up or down....forced landing |
Blitz, I always chuckle=C2-at that "tree" advice because we had a student
pilot do exactly that at the Kunsan AB Aeroclub=C2-when the engine quit
in his Cessna 150... he did as recommended and=C2-landed between two tree
s... the only two trees on the=C2-Par 5 at the golf course.=C2-
----- Original Message -----
From: "Byron Fox" <byronmfox@gmail.com>
Sent: Monday, November 20, 2017 12:50:25 PM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Gear up or down....forced landing
Doug forgot to mention the most important element of a forced landing based
on his successful personal experience. Land between the trees, =C2-=F0
=9F=8C=B2T =F0=9F=8C=B2 , allowing the wings to absorb the kinetic energy.
Blitz Fox
415-307-2405
On Nov 20, 2017, at 10:16 AM, Jean-Philippe Martel < marty.jpm@gmail.com >
wrote:
=F0=9F=91=8D
Le=C2-20 nov. 2017 19:14, "doug sapp" < dougsappllc@gmail.com > a =C3=A9c
rit=C2-:
<blockquote>
Guys,
Assuming that you are adequately insured there is only one thing to be cons
idered and that is to walk away from the wreckage with as little trauma (an
d drama) as possible.=C2- At this point the insurance company owns your a
ircraft anyway, as some one smarter than I once said:=C2- fly it=C2- as
far into the wreck as possible.=C2- Putting yourself at risk by trying t
o save a engine is nonsense.=C2- On Thursday when you about to carve the
turkey ask your family what is worth more, you or your radial?=C2-=C2-
Happy Thanksgiving!
On Mon, Nov 20, 2017 at 9:48 AM, JON < jblake207@comcast.net > wrote:
<blockquote>
First, I agree with you on the gear staying up on off-field landings especi
ally with an uncertain surface condition.=C2- We have thousands of peanut
, soybean and cotton patches here in "LA" (Lower Alabama) that are normally
hard enough that they might support a gear down landing, but that depends
on the recent rains, famer activity, etc. In other words, I'm most likely g
oing to down a flap down, gear up and canopy full open landing.=C2- I kno
w from experience the flap on the CJ will support the airframe in such a ca
se, but that was to a hard runway, so to an unimproved field the flap down
is still an unknown.=C2-
=C2-
Next, as for landing on a road, here's my .02 on that... as a former helico
pter driver, we were taught that "All road have wires!" so always keep that
in your mind should you chose to make a road landing.=C2- I'm certain yo
u've thought about the flow of traffic... I was taught to land with traffic
regardless of winds since landing against traffic is a head-on waiting to
happen because drivers aren't looking up nor expecting a windshield full of
airplane.=C2- Landing with traffic at least gives you an opportunity to
merge...sort of anyway.=C2- Other things to consider about road landings
are signs and mail boxes.=C2- A friend had an engine issue in his YAK and
had to put it down on a road.=C2- Perfect landing and the roll out was g
oing great until the wingtip caught a mailbox that was cemented into the gr
ound.=C2- That spun the airplane around and ended up in the ditch.=C2-
Fortunately no personal injury, but the airplane was hurt... but at that po
int who cares, right?
=C2-
I agree with you on shutting down the engine, but my only hesitation would
be length of runway.=C2- Once you shut the engine down and you are a glid
er, you are landing, so if you over shoot, which is very likely to happen o
r you are carrying too much energy, there is no option to go around and try
again.=C2-
=C2-
To close, I suppose I would worry much less about the damage to the airplan
e, assuming you are insured, than about bodily injury.=C2-
=C2-
JB
=C2-
=C2-
From: "HawkerPilot2015" < timsmiscaz@gmail.com >
Sent: Monday, November 20, 2017 10:47:22 AM
Subject: Yak-List: Gear up or down....forced landing
I hear of people landing gear down during a rough field landing. I am curio
us what the collective thinks about such a procedure. To me, if I were forc
ed to land in a field or other "softer" than normal terrain, I would choose
gear up to prevent the airplane flipping over or cartwheeling. Now, if it
were hard packed desert like we have here in AZ and long enough to land on,
my choice may be different. Obviously roads are just unmarked runways!
While I have your attention, lets talk about not being able to get the gear
down. Plenty of videos showing failed gear landings where the engine/s are
still swinging the prop/s. Again, for me, once I KNOW I have the runway ma
de with a gear up landing, I am shutting down the engine/s. No reason to co
mpletely destroy one or two good motors because of a gear issue. What are r
unning engine/s doing for you as skid down the runway?
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=475310#475310
=C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- &nbs
=================
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Gear up or down....forced landing |
Doug, I think it should be clear that no one will risk their lives trying to save
the motor. But if I have 9000 ft of pavement (or even 3000 feet) in front of
me and I can properly manage my energy state (training), what are the advantages
of keeping the engine running? Are you simply guaranteeing an insurance payout
by doing that? It is worth mentioning, I am not talking about killing the
engine coming off the perch.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=475328#475328
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Gear up or down....forced landing |
Shutting the motor down: Well let's think about that for a second. Have you
ever shut down the engine in flight and then tried to stop the prop from spinning?
It isn't easy. So in the end, engine at idle, or prop wind-milling, it's
still turning and the prop is still going to smack down and shatter (or bend
in the case of CJ-6's). Best case, you are still looking at engine sudden
stop and tear down more than likely. So while shutting the mags off right before
you crunch is OK I suppose, I really wouldn't look at that saving any real
money, although it might help save a fire somehow or another.
Gear up or down? A decision with a ton variables and ramifications. In the
end, it is the Pilot in Command's call and of course no matter what you do, someone
will say it was wrong.
Landing on roads: Some roads are better than others... plan accordingly.
Slightly off topic, but not much is: When to give up trying to make the engine
develop power when it suddenly stops doing so? The T-34B had a pressure carb,
pretty much the same as ours, although made by Bendix. It also had something
called "Emergency Fuel" where fuel from the electric boost pump was fed directly
to the primer system. You turned it on with the mixture at idle cut-off
and the throttle wide-open. It was full power or nothing, controlled by a
switch, and it actually worked pretty well. The UTVA-66 I own has a GSO-480B1J6,
also with 6 cylinder prime lines. I replaced the primer pump that was much
like what we have, with a Weldon electric fuel pump. I can shut the engine
down with carb fuel cut-off, then turn on the electric pump, hit the prime switch
and the engine will run.. .and develop power. So it is kind of a copy
from the T-34B, but it works, and the thing about Pressure Carb's is they can
work really well, right up to the point where they stop working at ALL. I've
often thought that a Weldon (or other good electric pump) replacing the primer/system
pump in our aircraft, where an electric solenoid valve then allows flow
to the primer line might indeed keep the engine running long enough to get
it to a runway. Never felt motivated enough to try it but it is something to
think about if that type of thing floats your boat.
Mark
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of doug sapp
Sent: Monday, November 20, 2017 1:09 PM
Subject: [Non-DoD Source] Re: Yak-List: Gear up or down....forced landing
Guys,
Assuming that you are adequately insured there is only one thing to be considered
and that is to walk away from the wreckage with as little trauma (and drama)
as possible. At this point the insurance company owns your aircraft anyway,
as some one smarter than I once said: fly it as far into the wreck as possible.
Putting yourself at risk by trying to save a engine is nonsense. On Thursday
when you about to carve the turkey ask your family what is worth more, you
or your radial?
Happy Thanksgiving!
On Mon, Nov 20, 2017 at 9:48 AM, JON <jblake207@comcast.net> wrote:
First, I agree with you on the gear staying up on off-field landings especially
with an uncertain surface condition. We have thousands of peanut, soybean and
cotton patches here in "LA" (Lower Alabama) that are normally hard enough that
they might support a gear down landing, but that depends on the recent rains,
famer activity, etc. In other words, I'm most likely going to down a flap
down, gear up and canopy full open landing. I know from experience the flap on
the CJ will support the airframe in such a case, but that was to a hard runway,
so to an unimproved field the flap down is still an unknown.
Next, as for landing on a road, here's my .02 on that... as a former helicopter
driver, we were taught that "All road have wires!" so always keep that in your
mind should you chose to make a road landing. I'm certain you've thought about
the flow of traffic... I was taught to land with traffic regardless of winds
since landing against traffic is a head-on waiting to happen because drivers
aren't looking up nor expecting a windshield full of airplane. Landing with
traffic at least gives you an opportunity to merge...sort of anyway. Other
things to consider about road landings are signs and mail boxes. A friend had
an engine issue in his YAK and had to put it down on a road. Perfect landing
and the roll out was going great until the wingtip caught a mailbox that was
cemented into the ground. That spun the airplane around and ended up in the ditch.
Fortunately no personal injury, but the airplane was hurt... but at that
point who cares, right?
I agree with you on shutting down the engine, but my only hesitation would be
length of runway. Once you shut the engine down and you are a glider, you are
landing, so if you over shoot, which is very likely to happen or you are carrying
too much energy, there is no option to go around and try again.
To close, I suppose I would worry much less about the damage to the airplane,
assuming you are insured, than about bodily injury.
JB
________________________________
From: "HawkerPilot2015" <timsmiscaz@gmail.com>
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, November 20, 2017 10:47:22 AM
Subject: Yak-List: Gear up or down....forced landing
I hear of people landing gear down during a rough field landing. I am curious
what the collective thinks about such a procedure. To me, if I were forced to
land in a field or other "softer" than normal terrain, I would choose gear up
to prevent the airplane flipping over or cartwheeling. Now, if it were hard packed
desert like we have here in AZ and long enough to land on, my choice may
be different. Obviously roads are just unmarked runways!
While I have your attention, lets talk about not being able to get the gear down.
Plenty of videos showing failed gear landings where the engine/s are still
swinging the prop/s. Again, for me, once I KNOW I have the runway made with a
gear up landing, I am shutting down the engine/s. No reason to completely destroy
one or two good motors because of a gear issue. What are running engine/s
doing for you as skid down the runway?
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=475310#475310 <http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=475310#475310>
&nbs================
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Gear up or down....forced landing |
HawkerPilot2015 agreed, it's all about energy management, and training.
Your preaching to the choir son. We see time after time folks who are good
sticks (just ask em) totally screwing up up a forced landing. Yet very few
will ever actually avail themselves of training even if offered free of
charge. Don't get me started.
On Mon, Nov 20, 2017 at 11:48 AM, HawkerPilot2015 <timsmiscaz@gmail.com>
wrote:
>
> Doug, I think it should be clear that no one will risk their lives trying
> to save the motor. But if I have 9000 ft of pavement (or even 3000 feet) in
> front of me and I can properly manage my energy state (training), what are
> the advantages of keeping the engine running? Are you simply guaranteeing
> an insurance payout by doing that? It is worth mentioning, I am not talking
> about killing the engine coming off the perch.
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=475328#475328
>
>
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Gear up or down....forced landing |
Doug, thanks for paying for my fuel. Great session with Postal.
Blitz Fox
415-307-2405
> On Nov 20, 2017, at 12:29 PM, doug sapp <dougsappllc@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> HawkerPilot2015 agreed, it's all about energy management, and training. Y
our preaching to the choir son. We see time after time folks who are good s
ticks (just ask em) totally screwing up up a forced landing. Yet very few w
ill ever actually avail themselves of training even if offered free of charg
e. Don't get me started.
>
>> On Mon, Nov 20, 2017 at 11:48 AM, HawkerPilot2015 <timsmiscaz@gmail.com> w
rote:
>>
>> Doug, I think it should be clear that no one will risk their lives trying
to save the motor. But if I have 9000 ft of pavement (or even 3000 feet) in
front of me and I can properly manage my energy state (training), what are t
he advantages of keeping the engine running? Are you simply guaranteeing an i
nsurance payout by doing that? It is worth mentioning, I am not talking abou
t killing the engine coming off the perch.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=475328#475328
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> =========================
>> List" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navig
ator?Yak-List
>> =========================
>> FORUMS -
>> eferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com
>> =========================
>> WIKI -
>> errer" target="_blank">http://wiki.matronics.com
>> =========================
>> b Site -
>> -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
>> rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contributio
n
>> =========================
>>
>>
>>
>
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Gear up or down....forced landing |
=0AInsurance or not, the first goal is to be there to testify at the accide
nt board. My son tested the tree approach - takes the fuel away from the c
ockpit as well.=0A =0APooh=0A-----Original Message-----=0AFrom: "JON" <jbla
ke207@comcast.net>=0ASent: Monday, 20 November, 2017 1:07pm=0ATo: "Yak-List
" <yak-list@matronics.com>=0ASubject: Re: Yak-List: Gear up or down....forc
ed landing=0A=0A=0A=0A=0ABlitz, I always chuckle at that "tree" advice beca
use we had a student pilot do exactly that at the Kunsan AB Aeroclub when t
he engine quit in his Cessna 150... he did as recommended and landed betwee
n two trees... the only two trees on the Par 5 at the golf course. =0AFrom:
"Byron Fox" <byronmfox@gmail.com>=0ATo: yak-list@matronics.com=0ASent: Mon
day, November 20, 2017 12:50:25 PM=0ASubject: Re: Yak-List: Gear up or down
....forced landing=0A=0ADoug forgot to mention the most important element o
f a forced landing based on his successful personal experience. Land betwee
n the trees, =F0=9F=8C=B2T =F0=9F=8C=B2 , allowing the wings to absorb the
kinetic energy.=0A=0ABlitz Fox=0A415-307-2405=0A=0AOn Nov 20, 2017, at 10:
16 AM, Jean-Philippe Martel <[ marty.jpm@gmail.com ]( mailto:marty.jpm@gmai
l.com )> wrote:=0A=0A=0A=F0=9F=91=8D=0A=0A=0ALe 20 nov. 2017 19:14, "doug s
app" <[ dougsappllc@gmail.com ]( mailto:dougsappllc@gmail.com )> a =C3=A9cr
it :=0A=0AGuys,=0AAssuming that you are adequately insured there is only on
e thing to be considered and that is to walk away from the wreckage with as
little trauma (and drama) as possible. At this point the insurance compan
y owns your aircraft anyway, as some one smarter than I once said: fly it
as far into the wreck as possible. Putting yourself at risk by trying to
save a engine is nonsense. On Thursday when you about to carve the turkey
ask your family what is worth more, you or your radial? =0AHappy Thanksgiv
ing!=0A=0A=0AOn Mon, Nov 20, 2017 at 9:48 AM, JON <[ jblake207@comcast.net
]( mailto:jblake207@comcast.net )> wrote:=0A=0A=0A=0AFirst, I agree with yo
u on the gear staying up on off-field landings especially with an uncertain
surface condition. We have thousands of peanut, soybean and cotton patche
s here in "LA" (Lower Alabama) that are normally hard enough that they migh
t support a gear down landing, but that depends on the recent rains, famer
activity, etc. In other words, I'm most likely going to down a flap down, g
ear up and canopy full open landing. I know from experience the flap on th
e CJ will support the airframe in such a case, but that was to a hard runwa
y, so to an unimproved field the flap down is still an unknown. =0A =0ANex
t, as for landing on a road, here's my .02 on that... as a former helicopte
r driver, we were taught that "All road have wires!" so always keep that in
your mind should you chose to make a road landing. I'm certain you've tho
ught about the flow of traffic... I was taught to land with traffic regardl
ess of winds since landing against traffic is a head-on waiting to happen b
ecause drivers aren't looking up nor expecting a windshield full of airplan
e. Landing with traffic at least gives you an opportunity to merge...sort
of anyway. Other things to consider about road landings are signs and mail
boxes. A friend had an engine issue in his YAK and had to put it down on
a road. Perfect landing and the roll out was going great until the wingtip
caught a mailbox that was cemented into the ground. That spun the airplan
e around and ended up in the ditch. Fortunately no personal injury, but th
e airplane was hurt... but at that point who cares, right?=0A =0AI agree wi
th you on shutting down the engine, but my only hesitation would be length
of runway. Once you shut the engine down and you are a glider, you are lan
ding, so if you over shoot, which is very likely to happen or you are carry
ing too much energy, there is no option to go around and try again. =0A =0A
To close, I suppose I would worry much less about the damage to the airplan
e, assuming you are insured, than about bodily injury. =0A =0AJB=0A =0A =0A
From: "HawkerPilot2015" <[ timsmiscaz@gmail.com ]( mailto:timsmiscaz@gmail.
com )>=0ATo: [ yak-list@matronics.com ]( mailto:yak-list@matronics.com )=0A
Sent: Monday, November 20, 2017 10:47:22 AM=0ASubject: Yak-List: Gear up or
<[ timsmiscaz@gmail.com ]( mailto:timsmiscaz@gmail.com )>=0AI hear of peop
le landing gear down during a rough field landing. I am curious what the co
llective thinks about such a procedure. To me, if I were forced to land in
a field or other "softer" than normal terrain, I would choose gear up to pr
event the airplane flipping over or cartwheeling. Now, if it were hard pack
ed desert like we have here in AZ and long enough to land on, my choice may
be different. Obviously roads are just unmarked runways! =0AWhile I have y
our attention, lets talk about not being able to get the gear down. Plenty
of videos showing failed gear landings where the engine/s are still swingin
g the prop/s. Again, for me, once I KNOW I have the runway made with a gear
up landing, I am shutting down the engine/s. No reason to completely destr
oy one or two good motors because of a gear issue. What are running engine/
s doing for you as skid down the runway?=0A=0A=0ARead this topic online her
e:=0A[ http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=475310#475310 ]( http:
//forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=475310#475310 )=0A=0A=0A
&nbs==================0A=0A=0A
=0A=0A=0A
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Cost of Fobs for stores |
CiAgICAKQmxhZGUsICQ5LjUwIGVhY2ggZm9yIHRhZ3MKCgpBbmRyZXcgUGFyazAyMSAzMjMxODJh
bmRyZXcucGFya0B4dHJhLmNvLm56d3d3LmZhdWx0cy5jby5uekJveCAxMDdHcmVlbmhpdGhlQXVj
a2xhbmTCoAoKCi0tLS0tLS0tIE9yaWdpbmFsIG1lc3NhZ2UgLS0tLS0tLS0KRnJvbTogU3QgTHVr
ZXMgTWVnYSBNYW5hZ2VyIDxubHN0MjVtQG5vZWxsZWVtaW5nLmNvLm56PiAKRGF0ZTogMjEvMTEv
MTcgIDk6NDYgQU0gIChHTVQrMTI6MDApIApUbzogQW5kcmV3IFBhcmsgPGFuZHJldy5wYXJrQHh0
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ZiB0aGUgZm9icyB3ZSBvcmRlciB0aHJvdWdoIHlvdSBmb3Igb3VyIHN0b3Jlcz8KVGhhbmsgeW91
CkJsYWRlCgotLSAKUmVnYXJkcywKQmxhZGUgU3BlaXJ6U3RvcmUgTWFuYWdlck5vZWwgTGVlbWlu
ZwpTdC4gTHVrZSdzIE1lZ2EgQ2VudHJlUGhvbmU6wqAwMjEgODEwIDE2NwoKQW55IHZpZXdzIGV4
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ciwgZXhjZXB0IHdoZXJlIHRoZSBzZW5kZXIgc3BlY2lmaWNhbGx5IHN0YXRlcyB0aGVtIHRvIGJl
IHRoZSB2aWV3IG9mIE5vZWwgTGVlbWluZyBHcm91cCBMdGQuIFRoaXMgZW1haWwgbWVzc2FnZSBh
bmQgYW55IGFjY29tcGFueWluZyBkYXRhIG1heSBjb250YWluIGNvbmZpZGVudGlhbCBpbmZvcm1h
dGlvbi4gSWYgeW91IGFyZSBub3QgdGhlIGludGVuZGVkIHJlY2lwaWVudCwgeW91IGFyZSBub3Rp
ZmllZCB0aGF0IGFueSB1c2UsIGRpc3NlbWluYXRpb24sIGRpc3RyaWJ1dGlvbiBvciBjb3B5aW5n
IG9mIHRoaXMgbWVzc2FnZSBvciBkYXRhIGlzIHByb2hpYml0ZWQuCgoK
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Gear up or down....forced landing |
After watching this conversation for awhile one question; when do you decide
to take the silk let down? So the engine quits on this brick with the glide
ratio of a rock while you have enough altitude to pick a site for an off f
ield landing but not enough to make the airport you are basically saying you
are going to try save the aircraft. If that is so then why are you wearing
a chute?
Not me, all my past training says give the aircraft back to the tax payers i
n pieces if necessary but save your roses pink. Postal is right from the mom
ent that the brick strapped to my becomes an unpowered unsalvagable rock the
canopy is going back and I=99m giving this one back to Cannon.
Doc
Sent from my iPad
> On Nov 20, 2017, at 12:33 PM, Byron Fox <byronmfox@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> The best advice I=99ve received came from =9CPostal.=9D
>
> =9CWhen the engine quits, you no longer own the aircraft. It belongs
to the insurance company.=9D
>
> Therefore, save your butt and let the airplane be a crash cage. Canopy ope
n ( and hope it stays open), straps tight, helmet visor down, gear up, fuel o
ff, and, in the immortal words of Bob Hoover, fly the airplane all the way i
nto the crash.
>
> Finally, learn about flying the =9Chigh and low key=9D forced l
anding pattern taught by the military.
>
> Blitz Fox
> 415-307-2405
>
>
>> On Nov 20, 2017, at 9:56 AM, JON <jblake207@comcast.net> wrote:
>>
>> Oops... should read I'm most likely going to land FLAP down a flap down, g
ear up and canopy full open landing.
>>
>> From: "JON" <jblake207@comcast.net>
>> To: "Yak-List" <yak-list@matronics.com>
>> Sent: Monday, November 20, 2017 11:48:42 AM
>> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Gear up or down....forced landing
>>
>> First, I agree with you on the gear staying up on off-field landings espe
cially with an uncertain surface condition. We have thousands of peanut, so
ybean and cotton patches here in "LA" (Lower Alabama) that are normally hard
enough that they might support a gear down landing, but that depends on the
recent rains, famer activity, etc. In other words, I'm most likely going to
down a flap down, gear up and canopy full open landing. I know from experi
ence the flap on the CJ will support the airframe in such a case, but that w
as to a hard runway, so to an unimproved field the flap down is still an unk
nown.
>>
>> Next, as for landing on a road, here's my .02 on that... as a former heli
copter driver, we were taught that "All road have wires!" so always keep tha
t in your mind should you chose to make a road landing. I'm certain you've t
hought about the flow of traffic... I was taught to land with traffic regard
less of winds since landing against traffic is a head-on waiting to happen b
ecause drivers aren't looking up nor expecting a windshield full of airplane
. Landing with traffic at least gives you an opportunity to merge...sort of
anyway. Other things to consider about road landings are signs and mail bo
xes. A friend had an engine issue in his YAK and had to put it down on a ro
ad. Perfect landing and the roll out was going great until the wingtip caug
ht a mailbox that was cemented into the ground. That spun the airplane arou
nd and ended up in the ditch. Fortunately no personal injury, but the airpl
ane was hurt... but at that point who cares, right?
>>
>> I agree with you on shutting down the engine, but my only hesitation woul
d be length of runway. Once you shut the engine down and you are a glider, y
ou are landing, so if you over shoot, which is very likely to happen or you a
re carrying too much energy, there is no option to go around and try again.
>>
>> To close, I suppose I would worry much less about the damage to the airpl
ane, assuming you are insured, than about bodily injury.
>>
>> JB
>>
>>
>>
>> From: "HawkerPilot2015" <timsmiscaz@gmail.com>
>> To: yak-list@matronics.com
>> Sent: Monday, November 20, 2017 10:47:22 AM
>> Subject: Yak-List: Gear up or down....forced landing
>>
>>
>> I hear of people landing gear down during a rough field landing. I am cur
ious what the collective thinks about such a procedure. To me, if I were for
ced to land in a field or other "softer" than normal terrain, I would choose
gear up to prevent the airplane flipping over or cartwheeling. Now, if it w
ere hard packed desert like we have here in AZ and long enough to land on, m
y choice may be different. Obviously roads are just unmarked runways!
>>
>> While I have your attention, lets talk about not being able to get the ge
ar down. Plenty of videos showing failed gear landings where the engine/s ar
e still swinging the prop/s. Again, for me, once I KNOW I have the runway ma
de with a gear up landing, I am shutting down the engine/s. No reason to com
pletely destroy one or two good motors because of a gear issue. What are run
ning engine/s doing for you as skid down the runway?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=475310#475310
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> &nbs=================
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Gear up or down....forced landing |
Now that=99s just stupid. Each and every situation will be different. T
he only thing you can rely on is good training, airmanship, and always a lit
tle luck. When was the last time any of you have practiced a slip. What is t
he VVI saying when the engine quits whit the prop not pulled back. What is i
t when the prop is pulled back. What about with gear and flaps. Have any of y
ou turned the motor off 10,000 ft above the airport and seen what happens. I
bet all of us could use a little practice. Just food for thought.
Thug
Sent from my iPhone
> On Nov 20, 2017, at 8:08 PM, Roger Kemp <f16viperdoc@me.com> wrote:
>
> After watching this conversation for awhile one question; when do you deci
de to take the silk let down? So the engine quits on this brick with the gli
de ratio of a rock while you have enough altitude to pick a site for an off
field landing but not enough to make the airport you are basically saying y
ou are going to try save the aircraft. If that is so then why are you weari
ng a chute?
> Not me, all my past training says give the aircraft back to the tax payers
in pieces if necessary but save your roses pink. Postal is right from the m
oment that the brick strapped to my becomes an unpowered unsalvagable rock t
he canopy is going back and I=99m giving this one back to Cannon.
> Doc
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
>> On Nov 20, 2017, at 12:33 PM, Byron Fox <byronmfox@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> The best advice I=99ve received came from =9CPostal.=9D
>>
>> =9CWhen the engine quits, you no longer own the aircraft. It belong
s to the insurance company.=9D
>>
>> Therefore, save your butt and let the airplane be a crash cage. Canopy op
en ( and hope it stays open), straps tight, helmet visor down, gear up, fuel
off, and, in the immortal words of Bob Hoover, fly the airplane all the way
into the crash.
>>
>> Finally, learn about flying the =9Chigh and low key=9D forced
landing pattern taught by the military.
>>
>> Blitz Fox
>> 415-307-2405
>>
>>
>>> On Nov 20, 2017, at 9:56 AM, JON <jblake207@comcast.net> wrote:
>>>
>>> Oops... should read I'm most likely going to land FLAP down a flap down,
gear up and canopy full open landing.
>>>
>>> From: "JON" <jblake207@comcast.net>
>>> To: "Yak-List" <yak-list@matronics.com>
>>> Sent: Monday, November 20, 2017 11:48:42 AM
>>> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Gear up or down....forced landing
>>>
>>> First, I agree with you on the gear staying up on off-field landings esp
ecially with an uncertain surface condition. We have thousands of peanut, s
oybean and cotton patches here in "LA" (Lower Alabama) that are normally har
d enough that they might support a gear down landing, but that depends on th
e recent rains, famer activity, etc. In other words, I'm most likely going t
o down a flap down, gear up and canopy full open landing. I know from exper
ience the flap on the CJ will support the airframe in such a case, but that w
as to a hard runway, so to an unimproved field the flap down is still an unk
nown.
>>>
>>> Next, as for landing on a road, here's my .02 on that... as a former hel
icopter driver, we were taught that "All road have wires!" so always keep th
at in your mind should you chose to make a road landing. I'm certain you've
thought about the flow of traffic... I was taught to land with traffic rega
rdless of winds since landing against traffic is a head-on waiting to happen
because drivers aren't looking up nor expecting a windshield full of airpla
ne. Landing with traffic at least gives you an opportunity to merge...sort o
f anyway. Other things to consider about road landings are signs and mail b
oxes. A friend had an engine issue in his YAK and had to put it down on a r
oad. Perfect landing and the roll out was going great until the wingtip cau
ght a mailbox that was cemented into the ground. That spun the airplane aro
und and ended up in the ditch. Fortunately no personal injury, but the airp
lane was hurt... but at that point who cares, right?
>>>
>>> I agree with you on shutting down the engine, but my only hesitation wou
ld be length of runway. Once you shut the engine down and you are a glider,
you are landing, so if you over shoot, which is very likely to happen or yo
u are carrying too much energy, there is no option to go around and try agai
n.
>>>
>>> To close, I suppose I would worry much less about the damage to the airp
lane, assuming you are insured, than about bodily injury.
>>>
>>> JB
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> From: "HawkerPilot2015" <timsmiscaz@gmail.com>
>>> To: yak-list@matronics.com
>>> Sent: Monday, November 20, 2017 10:47:22 AM
>>> Subject: Yak-List: Gear up or down....forced landing
>>>
>>>
>>> I hear of people landing gear down during a rough field landing. I am cu
rious what the collective thinks about such a procedure. To me, if I were fo
rced to land in a field or other "softer" than normal terrain, I would choos
e gear up to prevent the airplane flipping over or cartwheeling. Now, if it w
ere hard packed desert like we have here in AZ and long enough to land on, m
y choice may be different. Obviously roads are just unmarked runways!
>>>
>>> While I have your attention, lets talk about not being able to get the g
ear down. Plenty of videos showing failed gear landings where the engine/s a
re still swinging the prop/s. Again, for me, once I KNOW I have the runway m
ade with a gear up landing, I am shutting down the engine/s. No reason to co
mpletely destroy one or two good motors because of a gear issue. What are ru
nning engine/s doing for you as skid down the runway?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Read this topic online here:
>>>
>>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=475310#475310
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> &nbs================
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Gear up or down....forced landing |
Over my 20+ years of flying these Red Star aircraft, I don't recall anyone
ever safely departing the a/c during an emergency. Did I miss something?
Dave
In a message dated 11/20/2017 7:54:50 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,
rickkelleyfly@gmail.com writes:
After watching this conversation for awhile one question; when do you
decide to take the silk let down? So the engine quits on this brick with the
glide ratio of a rock while you have enough altitude to pick a site for an
off field landing but not enough to make the airport you are basically
saying you are going to try save the aircraft. If that is so then why are you
wearing a chute?
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