Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 01:43 AM - Re: Re: Engine stumble in flight (Jan Mevis)
2. 02:29 AM - Re: Re: Engine stumble in flight (Richard Goode)
3. 06:44 AM - Re: Re: Engine stumble in flight (Ernest Martinez)
4. 06:44 AM - Re: Re: Engine stumble in flight (John B)
5. 07:54 AM - Re: Re: Engine stumble in flight (Hans Oortman)
6. 08:03 AM - Re: Re: Engine stumble in flight (Ernest Martinez)
7. 08:04 AM - Re: Re: Engine stumble in flight (Richard Goode)
8. 08:12 AM - Re: Re: Engine stumble in flight (Ernest Martinez)
9. 08:18 AM - Re: engine stumble ()
10. 08:18 AM - Re: Re: Engine stumble in flight (George Coy)
11. 08:32 AM - Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: Re: Engine stumble in flight (Bitterlich, Mark G CIV NAVAIR, WD)
12. 08:47 AM - Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: Re: Engine stumble in flight (Bitterlich, Mark G CIV NAVAIR, WD)
13. 09:42 AM - Canopy latch modification. (AlaskaChang801)
14. 10:15 AM - Re: Re: Engine stumble in flight (A. Dennis Savarese)
15. 10:37 AM - Re: Canopy latch modification. (A. Dennis Savarese)
16. 10:38 AM - Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: Re: Engine stumble in flight (Walter Lannon)
17. 10:51 AM - Re: Re: Engine stumble in flight (John B)
18. 11:06 AM - Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: Re: Engine stumble in flight (Tom Elliott)
19. 11:18 AM - Re: Canopy latch modification. (Tom Elliott)
20. 11:26 AM - Emailing: TE202925 (Tom Elliott)
21. 11:26 AM - Emailing: TE202925 (Tom Elliott)
22. 11:43 AM - Re: Canopy latch modification. (AlaskaChang801)
23. 12:01 PM - Re: Re: Engine stumble in flight (Al Pickering)
24. 01:06 PM - Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: Re: Engine stumble in flight (Bitterlich, Mark G CIV NAVAIR, WD)
25. 01:25 PM - Re: Engine stumble in flight (Yakjumper)
26. 01:26 PM - Re: Engine stumble in flight (Bitterlich, Mark G CIV NAVAIR, WD)
27. 04:04 PM - Re: Engine stumble in flight (Looigi)
28. 05:46 PM - Re: Re: Engine stumble in flight (Nigel Willson)
29. 07:16 PM - Re: Re: Engine stumble in flight (\)
30. 08:20 PM - Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: Re: Engine stumble in flight ()
31. 09:18 PM - Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: Re: Engine stumble in flight (Walter Lannon)
32. 11:27 PM - Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: Re: Engine stumble in flight ()
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Engine stumble in flight |
A coil failure is not simply having the mag grounded or turning it off.
Those who have witnessed it in flight will agree: it makes your heart beat
=B3stumble=B2 too (it did when I witnessed it).
As far as I know there=B9s still no scientific explanation of what happens
exactly.
The problem with old coils is that the solvents used for applying the
insulation, are vapoured out.
Some tiny holes exist in the insulation material.
If humidity gets in, then at higher temperature the gases in the holes
ionize and cause a high-tension brake through.
I have a hunch (a guestimate) that the bad coil fires when it shouldn=B9t
fire.
But once again, I am not sure at all.
Anyway, bad coils is a serious problem.
Only my 2 cents,
Jan
From: <owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com> on behalf of John B
<jbsoar@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: Engine stumble in flight
A coil failure in a magneto will feel the same as simply grounding the mag,
or turning the mag "off." In other words, a coil failure with both mags
"on" or "not grounded," will feel like nothing, other than, say, a five
percent loss of performance. It won't cause a total engine failure.
However, it is entirely possible for both magnetos to have intermittently
failing coils. One is tired, and the other quits when it gets hot, so the
engine stumbles, terrifying the pilot and passenger. The brief engine
stumble rattles the coil enough for it to correct it's internal short, and
the engine smooths out. Or, one has a spark plug wire problem on one mag,
and a failing coil on the other. The engine runs fine, until it gets good
and hot and the coil associated with the good spark plug wires fails.
Terrifying!
Magnetos get very hot in use. Has anyone fashioned dedicated cooling blast
tubes to the magnetos? What does the Sukhoi use, if anything?
We did the auto plug conversion, and immediately were rewarded with a bette
r
running engine. The auto plug conversion will reduce the weight of your
airplane by a couple of pounds, which is also of benefit. The cost of the
kit is nominal.
On Mon, Feb 19, 2018 at 11:26 PM, Walter Lannon <wlannon@shaw.ca> wrote:
>
> I have a really hard time accepting that a coil failure in one mag. can c
ause
> the other mag to fail.
>
> Have had only one definite coil failure. Occurred during pre-flight pow
er &
> mag. check on a 1340 with American Bosch mags. Went dead as a doornail o
n
> that one but other just fine. New coil installed and back to normal.
>
> Have had two instances of the Huosai wake up call (2 sec. of silence). T
wo
> different aircraft & engines, x-country at around 7500 ft. throttle fully
open
> trying to maintain about 65% power, mixture up to throttle (max. lean). M
aybe
> too lean!
> Since then with a large throttle opening at altitude I don't go quite as
lean
> and have not (so far) had a recurrence.
>
> Don't know for sure but???????
>
> Walt
>
> -----Original Message----- From: Vic
> Sent: Sunday, February 18, 2018 6:33 AM
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Yak-List: Re: Engine stumble in flight
>
>
> We had quite some troubles with bad/new coils in past years and this took
some
> time to find out all sides of the problem. Since we do a mag run up AFTER
most
> flights after clearing the runway and have min. 70 percent , better 80 pe
rcent
> revs to get a reliable check of ignition system.
> I built my own heat chamber and did 5 hour runs at min. 70 degrees C to
test
> coil and capacitor. Remember, the alu foil capacitor is wound between pri
mary
> and secondary windings within the coil - the worst place to put a capacit
or.
> My guess is that the dielectric material and materials in the coil wires
may
> age and since the electrical properties of components will become unsuita
ble
> to operate.
> Why do we NOT see the same hiccup of the engine when we do the mag chec
k on
> the ground , switching off one mag, compared to a short failure in flight
???
> I just cannot figure that out . . .
>
> Vic
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=478080#478080
>
>
>
>
> Attachments:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/p1050315_kkk_138.jpg
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ---
> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
> https://www.avast.com/antivirus
>
>
> ===================================
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> target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
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| Subject: | Re: Engine stumble in flight |
I'm sorry, but that is not correct! But over the last 25 years, I have
experienced coil problems on at least as many aircraft. Logic will tell
you that a coil failure in one magneto will leave the engine running
perfectly well on the other magneto with a slight power loss. The
practicality is different, and the engine will stop totally if the coil
failure is serious. Of course it will then restart, but enough to give
the pilot, and indeed any passengers, a fright.
Our own view is that, as has been said, the magneto gets very hot in
operation. And of course the coil is inside, and worse still, the
capacitor is inside the coil, which is intrinsically getting hot with
the current going through the coil. In order to partially overcome this
problem, we have developed coils with an external capacitor which will
run rather cooler, and have had very satisfactory results with them. The
capacitor is small; bonded to the outside of the coil and makes no
difference to installation of the coil inside the magneto.
Richard Goode
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John B
Sent: 20 February 2018 07:13
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: Engine stumble in flight
A coil failure in a magneto will feel the same as simply grounding the
mag, or turning the mag "off." In other words, a coil failure with both
mags "on" or "not grounded," will feel like nothing, other than, say, a
five percent loss of performance. It won't cause a total engine
failure. However, it is entirely possible for both magnetos to have
intermittently failing coils. One is tired, and the other quits when it
gets hot, so the engine stumbles, terrifying the pilot and passenger.
The brief engine stumble rattles the coil enough for it to correct it's
internal short, and the engine smooths out. Or, one has a spark plug
wire problem on one mag, and a failing coil on the other. The engine
runs fine, until it gets good and hot and the coil associated with the
good spark plug wires fails. Terrifying!
Magnetos get very hot in use. Has anyone fashioned dedicated cooling
blast tubes to the magnetos? What does the Sukhoi use, if anything?
We did the auto plug conversion, and immediately were rewarded with a
better running engine. The auto plug conversion will reduce the weight
of your airplane by a couple of pounds, which is also of benefit. The
cost of the kit is nominal.
On Mon, Feb 19, 2018 at 11:26 PM, Walter Lannon <wlannon@shaw.ca
<mailto:wlannon@shaw.ca> > wrote:
<mailto:wlannon@shaw.ca> >
I have a really hard time accepting that a coil failure in one mag. can
cause the other mag to fail.
Have had only one definite coil failure. Occurred during pre-flight
power & mag. check on a 1340 with American Bosch mags. Went dead as a
doornail on that one but other just fine. New coil installed and back
to normal.
Have had two instances of the Huosai wake up call (2 sec. of silence).
Two different aircraft & engines, x-country at around 7500 ft. throttle
fully open trying to maintain about 65% power, mixture up to throttle
(max. lean). Maybe too lean!
Since then with a large throttle opening at altitude I don't go quite as
lean and have not (so far) had a recurrence.
Don't know for sure but???????
Walt
-----Original Message----- From: Vic
Sent: Sunday, February 18, 2018 6:33 AM
Subject: Yak-List: Re: Engine stumble in flight
<mailto:vicmolnar@aol.com> >
We had quite some troubles with bad/new coils in past years and this
took some time to find out all sides of the problem. Since we do a mag
run up AFTER most flights after clearing the runway and have min. 70
percent , better 80 percent revs to get a reliable check of ignition
system.
I built my own heat chamber and did 5 hour runs at min. 70 degrees C to
test coil and capacitor. Remember, the alu foil capacitor is wound
between primary and secondary windings within the coil - the worst place
to put a capacitor. My guess is that the dielectric material and
materials in the coil wires may age and since the electrical properties
of components will become unsuitable to operate.
Why do we NOT see the same hiccup of the engine when we do the mag
check on the ground , switching off one mag, compared to a short failure
in flight ??? I just cannot figure that out . . .
Vic
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=478080#478080
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/p1050315_kkk_138.jpg
<http://forums.matronics.com/files/p1050315_kkk_138.jpg>
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Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Engine stumble in flight |
Wrong
On Tue, Feb 20, 2018 at 5:28 AM, Richard Goode <
Richard.goode@russianaeros.com> wrote:
> I'm sorry, but that is not correct! But over the last 25 years, I have
> experienced coil problems on at least as many aircraft. Logic will tell you
> that a coil failure in one magneto will leave the engine running perfectly
> well on the other magneto with a slight power loss. The practicality is
> different, and the engine will stop totally if the coil failure is serious.
> Of course it will then restart, but enough to give the pilot, and indeed
> any passengers, a fright.
>
>
> Our own view is that, as has been said, the magneto gets very hot in
> operation. And of course the coil is inside, and worse still, the capacitor
> is inside the coil, which is intrinsically getting hot with the current
> going through the coil. In order to partially overcome this problem, we
> have developed coils with an external capacitor which will run rather
> cooler, and have had very satisfactory results with them. The capacitor is
> small; bonded to the outside of the coil and makes no difference to
> installation of the coil inside the magneto.
>
>
> Richard Goode
>
>
> *From:* owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@
> matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *John B
> *Sent:* 20 February 2018 07:13
> *To:* Yak-List Digest Server <yak-list@matronics.com>
>
> *Subject:* Re: Yak-List: Re: Engine stumble in flight
>
>
> A coil failure in a magneto will feel the same as simply grounding the
> mag, or turning the mag "off." In other words, a coil failure with both
> mags "on" or "not grounded," will feel like nothing, other than, say, a
> five percent loss of performance. It won't cause a total engine failure.
> However, it is entirely possible for both magnetos to have intermittently
> failing coils. One is tired, and the other quits when it gets hot, so the
> engine stumbles, terrifying the pilot and passenger. The brief engine
> stumble rattles the coil enough for it to correct it's internal short, and
> the engine smooths out. Or, one has a spark plug wire problem on one mag,
> and a failing coil on the other. The engine runs fine, until it gets good
> and hot and the coil associated with the good spark plug wires fails.
> Terrifying!
>
>
> Magnetos get very hot in use. Has anyone fashioned dedicated cooling
> blast tubes to the magnetos? What does the Sukhoi use, if anything?
>
>
> We did the auto plug conversion, and immediately were rewarded with a
> better running engine. The auto plug conversion will reduce the weight of
> your airplane by a couple of pounds, which is also of benefit. The cost of
> the kit is nominal.
>
>
> On Mon, Feb 19, 2018 at 11:26 PM, Walter Lannon <wlannon@shaw.ca> wrote:
>
>
> I have a really hard time accepting that a coil failure in one mag. can
> cause the other mag to fail.
>
> Have had only one definite coil failure. Occurred during pre-flight
> power & mag. check on a 1340 with American Bosch mags. Went dead as a
> doornail on that one but other just fine. New coil installed and back to
> normal.
>
> Have had two instances of the Huosai wake up call (2 sec. of silence).
> Two different aircraft & engines, x-country at around 7500 ft. throttle
> fully open trying to maintain about 65% power, mixture up to throttle (max.
> lean). Maybe too lean!
> Since then with a large throttle opening at altitude I don't go quite as
> lean and have not (so far) had a recurrence.
>
> Don't know for sure but???????
>
> Walt
>
> -----Original Message----- From: Vic
> Sent: Sunday, February 18, 2018 6:33 AM
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Yak-List: Re: Engine stumble in flight
>
>
> We had quite some troubles with bad/new coils in past years and this took
> some time to find out all sides of the problem. Since we do a mag run up
> AFTER most flights after clearing the runway and have min. 70 percent ,
> better 80 percent revs to get a reliable check of ignition system.
> I built my own heat chamber and did 5 hour runs at min. 70 degrees C to
> test coil and capacitor. Remember, the alu foil capacitor is wound between
> primary and secondary windings within the coil - the worst place to put a
> capacitor. My guess is that the dielectric material and materials in the
> coil wires may age and since the electrical properties of components will
> become unsuitable to operate.
> Why do we NOT see the same hiccup of the engine when we do the mag check
> on the ground , switching off one mag, compared to a short failure in
> flight ??? I just cannot figure that out . . .
>
> Vic
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=478080#478080
>
>
> Attachments:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/p1050315_kkk_138.jpg
> <http://forums.matronics.com/files/p1050315_kkk_138.jpg>
>
>
> ---
> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
> https://www.avast.com/antivirus
>
>
> ===================================
> List" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.
> matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
> ===================================
> FORUMS -
> eferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com
> ==========
> WIKI -
> errer" target="_blank">http://wiki.matronics.com
> ==========
> b Site -
> -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
> rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> ===================================
>
>
> --
> This message has been scanned for viruses and
> dangerous content by *MailScanner* <http://www.mailscanner.info/>, and is
> believed to be clean.
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Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Engine stumble in flight |
It seems the problem is difficult to define... Would cooling air blast
tubes to each magneto help? We in the West are likely running these
engines at higher ambient temperatures than they were in Russia. One could
drill a hole in each magneto cover, in the area of the coil, and duct
filtered air to the coil, but what happens when one flies in the rain?
On Tue, Feb 20, 2018 at 3:42 AM, Jan Mevis <j.mevis@computer.org> wrote:
> A coil failure is not simply having the mag grounded or turning it off.
> Those who have witnessed it in flight will agree: it makes your heart bea
t
> =9Cstumble=9D too (it did when I witnessed it).
>
> As far as I know there=99s still no scientific explanation of what
happens
> exactly.
>
> The problem with old coils is that the solvents used for applying the
> insulation, are vapoured out.
> Some tiny holes exist in the insulation material.
> If humidity gets in, then at higher temperature the gases in the holes
> ionize and cause a high-tension brake through.
>
> I have a hunch (a guestimate) that the bad coil fires when it shouldn
=99t
> fire.
>
> But once again, I am not sure at all.
>
> Anyway, bad coils is a serious problem.
>
> Only my 2 cents,
>
> Jan
>
>
> From: <owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com> on behalf of John B <
> jbsoar@gmail.com>
> Date: Tuesday, 20 February 2018 at 08:12
> To: "yak-list@matronics.com" <yak-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: Engine stumble in flight
>
> A coil failure in a magneto will feel the same as simply grounding the
> mag, or turning the mag "off." In other words, a coil failure with both
> mags "on" or "not grounded," will feel like nothing, other than, say, a
> five percent loss of performance. It won't cause a total engine failure.
> However, it is entirely possible for both magnetos to have intermittently
> failing coils. One is tired, and the other quits when it gets hot, so th
e
> engine stumbles, terrifying the pilot and passenger. The brief engine
> stumble rattles the coil enough for it to correct it's internal short, an
d
> the engine smooths out. Or, one has a spark plug wire problem on one mag
,
> and a failing coil on the other. The engine runs fine, until it gets goo
d
> and hot and the coil associated with the good spark plug wires fails.
> Terrifying!
>
> Magnetos get very hot in use. Has anyone fashioned dedicated cooling
> blast tubes to the magnetos? What does the Sukhoi use, if anything?
>
> We did the auto plug conversion, and immediately were rewarded with a
> better running engine. The auto plug conversion will reduce the weight o
f
> your airplane by a couple of pounds, which is also of benefit. The cost
of
> the kit is nominal.
>
>
> On Mon, Feb 19, 2018 at 11:26 PM, Walter Lannon <wlannon@shaw.ca> wrote:
>
>>
>> I have a really hard time accepting that a coil failure in one mag. can
>> cause the other mag to fail.
>>
>> Have had only one definite coil failure. Occurred during pre-flight
>> power & mag. check on a 1340 with American Bosch mags. Went dead as a
>> doornail on that one but other just fine. New coil installed and back t
o
>> normal.
>>
>> Have had two instances of the Huosai wake up call (2 sec. of silence).
>> Two different aircraft & engines, x-country at around 7500 ft. throttle
>> fully open trying to maintain about 65% power, mixture up to throttle (m
ax.
>> lean). Maybe too lean!
>> Since then with a large throttle opening at altitude I don't go quite as
>> lean and have not (so far) had a recurrence.
>>
>> Don't know for sure but???????
>>
>> Walt
>>
>> -----Original Message----- From: Vic
>> Sent: Sunday, February 18, 2018 6:33 AM
>> To: yak-list@matronics.com
>> Subject: Yak-List: Re: Engine stumble in flight
>>
>>
>> We had quite some troubles with bad/new coils in past years and this too
k
>> some time to find out all sides of the problem. Since we do a mag run up
>> AFTER most flights after clearing the runway and have min. 70 percent ,
>> better 80 percent revs to get a reliable check of ignition system.
>> I built my own heat chamber and did 5 hour runs at min. 70 degrees C to
>> test coil and capacitor. Remember, the alu foil capacitor is wound betwe
en
>> primary and secondary windings within the coil - the worst place to put
a
>> capacitor. My guess is that the dielectric material and materials in the
>> coil wires may age and since the electrical properties of components wil
l
>> become unsuitable to operate.
>> Why do we NOT see the same hiccup of the engine when we do the mag
>> check on the ground , switching off one mag, compared to a short failure
in
>> flight ??? I just cannot figure that out . . .
>>
>> Vic
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=478080#478080
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Attachments:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com//files/p1050315_kkk_138.jpg
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ---
>> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
>> https://www.avast.com/antivirus
>>
>>
>> ========================
===========
>> List" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navi
g
>> ator?Yak-List
>> ========================
===========
>> FORUMS -
>> eferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com
>> ========================
===========
>> WIKI -
>> errer" target="_blank">http://wiki.matronics.com
>> ========================
===========
>> b Site -
>> -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
>> rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contributi
on
>> ========================
===========
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Engine stumble in flight |
What do you mean =9Cwrong=9Dare you doubting on what Richard said?
Apparantly you must have a lot more experience with this phenomena..lol.
Hans O.
Van: <owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com> namens Ernest Martinez <erniel29
@gmail.com>
Beantwoorden - Aan: <yak-list@matronics.com>
Datum: dinsdag 20 februari 2018 om 15:43
Aan: yak-list <yak-list@matronics.com>
Onderwerp: Re: Yak-List: Re: Engine stumble in flight
Wrong
On Tue, Feb 20, 2018 at 5:28 AM, Richard Goode <Richard.goode@russianaeros.
com> wrote:
I'm sorry, but that is not correct! But over the last 25 years, I have expe
rienced coil problems on at least as many aircraft. Logic will tell you that
a coil failure in one magneto will leave the engine running perfectly well
on the other magneto with a slight power loss. The practicality is different
, and the engine will stop totally if the coil failure is serious. Of course
it will then restart, but enough to give the pilot, and indeed any passenge
rs, a fright.
Our own view is that, as has been said, the magneto gets very hot in operat
ion. And of course the coil is inside, and worse still, the capacitor is ins
ide the coil, which is intrinsically getting hot with the current going thro
ugh the coil. In order to partially overcome this problem, we have developed
coils with an external capacitor which will run rather cooler, and have had
very satisfactory results with them. The capacitor is small; bonded to the
outside of the coil and makes no difference to installation of the coil insi
de the magneto.
Richard Goode
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@mat
ronics.com] On Behalf Of John B
Sent: 20 February 2018 07:13
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: Engine stumble in flight
A coil failure in a magneto will feel the same as simply grounding the mag,
or turning the mag "off." In other words, a coil failure with both mags "o
n" or "not grounded," will feel like nothing, other than, say, a five percen
t loss of performance. It won't cause a total engine failure. However, it
is entirely possible for both magnetos to have intermittently failing coils.
One is tired, and the other quits when it gets hot, so the engine stumbles
, terrifying the pilot and passenger. The brief engine stumble rattles the
coil enough for it to correct it's internal short, and the engine smooths ou
t. Or, one has a spark plug wire problem on one mag, and a failing coil on
the other. The engine runs fine, until it gets good and hot and the coil as
sociated with the good spark plug wires fails. Terrifying!
Magnetos get very hot in use. Has anyone fashioned dedicated cooling blast
tubes to the magnetos? What does the Sukhoi use, if anything?
We did the auto plug conversion, and immediately were rewarded with a bette
r running engine. The auto plug conversion will reduce the weight of your a
irplane by a couple of pounds, which is also of benefit. The cost of the ki
t is nominal.
On Mon, Feb 19, 2018 at 11:26 PM, Walter Lannon <wlannon@shaw.ca> wrote:
I have a really hard time accepting that a coil failure in one mag. can cau
se the other mag to fail.
Have had only one definite coil failure. Occurred during pre-flight power
& mag. check on a 1340 with American Bosch mags. Went dead as a doornail o
n that one but other just fine. New coil installed and back to normal.
Have had two instances of the Huosai wake up call (2 sec. of silence). Two
different aircraft & engines, x-country at around 7500 ft. throttle fully o
pen trying to maintain about 65% power, mixture up to throttle (max. lean).
Maybe too lean!
Since then with a large throttle opening at altitude I don't go quite as le
an and have not (so far) had a recurrence.
Don't know for sure but???????
Walt
-----Original Message----- From: Vic
Sent: Sunday, February 18, 2018 6:33 AM
Subject: Yak-List: Re: Engine stumble in flight
We had quite some troubles with bad/new coils in past years and this took s
ome time to find out all sides of the problem. Since we do a mag run up AFTE
R most flights after clearing the runway and have min. 70 percent , better 8
0 percent revs to get a reliable check of ignition system.
I built my own heat chamber and did 5 hour runs at min. 70 degrees C to te
st coil and capacitor. Remember, the alu foil capacitor is wound between pri
mary and secondary windings within the coil - the worst place to put a capac
itor. My guess is that the dielectric material and materials in the coil wir
es may age and since the electrical properties of components will become uns
uitable to operate.
Why do we NOT see the same hiccup of the engine when we do the mag check
on the ground , switching off one mag, compared to a short failure in flight
??? I just cannot figure that out . . .
Vic
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=478080#478080
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/p1050315_kkk_138.jpg
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ak-List
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errer" target="_blank">http://wiki.matronics.com
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| Subject: | Re: Engine stumble in flight |
I was agreeing with Richard. I didn't see his response before I hit send
On Tue, Feb 20, 2018 at 10:53 AM, Hans Oortman <pa3arw@ziggo.nl> wrote:
> What do you mean =9Cwrong=9Dare you doubting on what
Richard said?
>
> Apparantly you must have a lot more experience with this phenomena
..lol.
>
>
> Hans O.
>
>
> *Van: *<owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com> namens Ernest Martinez <
> erniel29@gmail.com>
> *Beantwoorden - Aan: *<yak-list@matronics.com>
> *Datum: *dinsdag 20 februari 2018 om 15:43
> *Aan: *yak-list <yak-list@matronics.com>
> *Onderwerp: *Re: Yak-List: Re: Engine stumble in flight
>
>
> Wrong
>
>
> On Tue, Feb 20, 2018 at 5:28 AM, Richard Goode <
> Richard.goode@russianaeros.com> wrote:
>
> I'm sorry, but that is not correct! But over the last 25 years, I have
> experienced coil problems on at least as many aircraft. Logic will tell y
ou
> that a coil failure in one magneto will leave the engine running perfectl
y
> well on the other magneto with a slight power loss. The practicality is
> different, and the engine will stop totally if the coil failure is seriou
s.
> Of course it will then restart, but enough to give the pilot, and indeed
> any passengers, a fright.
>
>
> Our own view is that, as has been said, the magneto gets very hot in
> operation. And of course the coil is inside, and worse still, the capacit
or
> is inside the coil, which is intrinsically getting hot with the current
> going through the coil. In order to partially overcome this problem, we
> have developed coils with an external capacitor which will run rather
> cooler, and have had very satisfactory results with them. The capacitor i
s
> small; bonded to the outside of the coil and makes no difference to
> installation of the coil inside the magneto.
>
>
> Richard Goode
>
>
> *From:* owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server
@
> matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *John B
> *Sent:* 20 February 2018 07:13
> *To:* Yak-List Digest Server <yak-list@matronics.com>
>
>
> *Subject:* Re: Yak-List: Re: Engine stumble in flight
>
>
> A coil failure in a magneto will feel the same as simply grounding the
> mag, or turning the mag "off." In other words, a coil failure with both
> mags "on" or "not grounded," will feel like nothing, other than, say, a
> five percent loss of performance. It won't cause a total engine failure.
> However, it is entirely possible for both magnetos to have intermittently
> failing coils. One is tired, and the other quits when it gets hot, so th
e
> engine stumbles, terrifying the pilot and passenger. The brief engine
> stumble rattles the coil enough for it to correct it's internal short, an
d
> the engine smooths out. Or, one has a spark plug wire problem on one mag
,
> and a failing coil on the other. The engine runs fine, until it gets goo
d
> and hot and the coil associated with the good spark plug wires fails.
> Terrifying!
>
>
> Magnetos get very hot in use. Has anyone fashioned dedicated cooling
> blast tubes to the magnetos? What does the Sukhoi use, if anything?
>
>
> We did the auto plug conversion, and immediately were rewarded with a
> better running engine. The auto plug conversion will reduce the weight o
f
> your airplane by a couple of pounds, which is also of benefit. The cost
of
> the kit is nominal.
>
>
> On Mon, Feb 19, 2018 at 11:26 PM, Walter Lannon <wlannon@shaw.ca> wrote:
>
>
> I have a really hard time accepting that a coil failure in one mag. can
> cause the other mag to fail.
>
> Have had only one definite coil failure. Occurred during pre-flight
> power & mag. check on a 1340 with American Bosch mags. Went dead as a
> doornail on that one but other just fine. New coil installed and back to
> normal.
>
> Have had two instances of the Huosai wake up call (2 sec. of silence).
> Two different aircraft & engines, x-country at around 7500 ft. throttle
> fully open trying to maintain about 65% power, mixture up to throttle (ma
x.
> lean). Maybe too lean!
> Since then with a large throttle opening at altitude I don't go quite as
> lean and have not (so far) had a recurrence.
>
> Don't know for sure but???????
>
> Walt
>
> -----Original Message----- From: Vic
> Sent: Sunday, February 18, 2018 6:33 AM
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Yak-List: Re: Engine stumble in flight
>
>
> We had quite some troubles with bad/new coils in past years and this took
> some time to find out all sides of the problem. Since we do a mag run up
> AFTER most flights after clearing the runway and have min. 70 percent ,
> better 80 percent revs to get a reliable check of ignition system.
> I built my own heat chamber and did 5 hour runs at min. 70 degrees C to
> test coil and capacitor. Remember, the alu foil capacitor is wound betwee
n
> primary and secondary windings within the coil - the worst place to put a
> capacitor. My guess is that the dielectric material and materials in the
> coil wires may age and since the electrical properties of components will
> become unsuitable to operate.
> Why do we NOT see the same hiccup of the engine when we do the mag chec
k
> on the ground , switching off one mag, compared to a short failure in
> flight ??? I just cannot figure that out . . .
>
> Vic
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=478080#478080
>
>
> Attachments:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/p1050315_kkk_138.jpg
> <http://forums.matronics.com/files/p1050315_kkk_138.jpg>
>
>
> ---
> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
> https://www.avast.com/antivirus
>
>
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> -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
> rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contributio
n
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===========
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Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Engine stumble in flight |
Ernest =93 with your huge experience in these matters, possibly
you could explain why you think I'm wrong!
Richard
Rhodds Farm
Lyonshall
Hereford
HR5 3LW
United Kingdom
Tel: +94 (0) 81 241 5137 (Sri Lanka)
Tel: +44 (0) 1544 340120
Fax: +44 (0) 1544 340129
www.russianaeros.com
I=99m currently in Sri Lanka but this Mail is working,and my local
phone is +94 779 132 160.
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ernest
Martinez
Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2018 8:14 PM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: Engine stumble in flight
Wrong
On Tue, Feb 20, 2018 at 5:28 AM, Richard Goode
<Richard.goode@russianaeros.com> wrote:
I'm sorry, but that is not correct! But over the last 25 years, I have
experienced coil problems on at least as many aircraft. Logic will tell
you that a coil failure in one magneto will leave the engine running
perfectly well on the other magneto with a slight power loss. The
practicality is different, and the engine will stop totally if the coil
failure is serious. Of course it will then restart, but enough to give
the pilot, and indeed any passengers, a fright.
Our own view is that, as has been said, the magneto gets very hot in
operation. And of course the coil is inside, and worse still, the
capacitor is inside the coil, which is intrinsically getting hot with
the current going through the coil. In order to partially overcome this
problem, we have developed coils with an external capacitor which will
run rather cooler, and have had very satisfactory results with them. The
capacitor is small; bonded to the outside of the coil and makes no
difference to installation of the coil inside the magneto.
Richard Goode
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John B
Sent: 20 February 2018 07:13
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: Engine stumble in flight
A coil failure in a magneto will feel the same as simply grounding the
mag, or turning the mag "off." In other words, a coil failure with both
mags "on" or "not grounded," will feel like nothing, other than, say, a
five percent loss of performance. It won't cause a total engine
failure. However, it is entirely possible for both magnetos to have
intermittently failing coils. One is tired, and the other quits when it
gets hot, so the engine stumbles, terrifying the pilot and passenger.
The brief engine stumble rattles the coil enough for it to correct it's
internal short, and the engine smooths out. Or, one has a spark plug
wire problem on one mag, and a failing coil on the other. The engine
runs fine, until it gets good and hot and the coil associated with the
good spark plug wires fails. Terrifying!
Magnetos get very hot in use. Has anyone fashioned dedicated cooling
blast tubes to the magnetos? What does the Sukhoi use, if anything?
We did the auto plug conversion, and immediately were rewarded with a
better running engine. The auto plug conversion will reduce the weight
of your airplane by a couple of pounds, which is also of benefit. The
cost of the kit is nominal.
On Mon, Feb 19, 2018 at 11:26 PM, Walter Lannon <wlannon@shaw.ca> wrote:
I have a really hard time accepting that a coil failure in one mag. can
cause the other mag to fail.
Have had only one definite coil failure. Occurred during pre-flight
power & mag. check on a 1340 with American Bosch mags. Went dead as a
doornail on that one but other just fine. New coil installed and back
to normal.
Have had two instances of the Huosai wake up call (2 sec. of silence).
Two different aircraft & engines, x-country at around 7500 ft. throttle
fully open trying to maintain about 65% power, mixture up to throttle
(max. lean). Maybe too lean!
Since then with a large throttle opening at altitude I don't go quite as
lean and have not (so far) had a recurrence.
Don't know for sure but???????
Walt
-----Original Message----- From: Vic
Sent: Sunday, February 18, 2018 6:33 AM
Subject: Yak-List: Re: Engine stumble in flight
We had quite some troubles with bad/new coils in past years and this
took some time to find out all sides of the problem. Since we do a mag
run up AFTER most flights after clearing the runway and have min. 70
percent , better 80 percent revs to get a reliable check of ignition
system.
I built my own heat chamber and did 5 hour runs at min. 70 degrees C to
test coil and capacitor. Remember, the alu foil capacitor is wound
between primary and secondary windings within the coil - the worst place
to put a capacitor. My guess is that the dielectric material and
materials in the coil wires may age and since the electrical properties
of components will become unsuitable to operate.
Why do we NOT see the same hiccup of the engine when we do the mag
check on the ground , switching off one mag, compared to a short failure
in flight ??? I just cannot figure that out . . .
Vic
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=478080#478080
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/p1050315_kkk_138.jpg
<http://forums.matronics.com/files/p1050315_kkk_138.jpg>
---
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errer" target="_blank">http://wiki.matronics.com
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-Matt Dralle, List Admin.
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Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Engine stumble in flight |
I don't think you're wrong. I agree with you. I didn't see your post. I was
responding to the original post.
On Tue, Feb 20, 2018 at 11:03 AM, Richard Goode <
richard.goode@russianaeros.com> wrote:
> Ernest =93 with your huge experience in these matters, possibly you
could
> explain why you think I'm wrong!
>
>
> Richard
>
>
> Rhodds Farm
>
> Lyonshall
>
> Hereford
>
> HR5 3LW
>
> United Kingdom
>
> Tel: +94 (0) 81 241 5137 (Sri Lanka)
>
> Tel: +44 (0) 1544 340120 <+44%201544%20340120>
>
> Fax: +44 (0) 1544 340129 <+44%201544%20340129>
>
> www.russianaeros.com
>
> I=99m currently in Sri Lanka but this Mail is working,and my local
phone is +94
> 779 132 160 <+94%2077%20913%202160>.
>
>
> *From:* owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server
@
> matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Ernest Martinez
> *Sent:* Tuesday, February 20, 2018 8:14 PM
> *To:* yak-list
>
> *Subject:* Re: Yak-List: Re: Engine stumble in flight
>
>
> Wrong
>
>
> On Tue, Feb 20, 2018 at 5:28 AM, Richard Goode <
> Richard.goode@russianaeros.com> wrote:
>
> I'm sorry, but that is not correct! But over the last 25 years, I have
> experienced coil problems on at least as many aircraft. Logic will tell y
ou
> that a coil failure in one magneto will leave the engine running perfectl
y
> well on the other magneto with a slight power loss. The practicality is
> different, and the engine will stop totally if the coil failure is seriou
s.
> Of course it will then restart, but enough to give the pilot, and indeed
> any passengers, a fright.
>
>
> Our own view is that, as has been said, the magneto gets very hot in
> operation. And of course the coil is inside, and worse still, the capacit
or
> is inside the coil, which is intrinsically getting hot with the current
> going through the coil. In order to partially overcome this problem, we
> have developed coils with an external capacitor which will run rather
> cooler, and have had very satisfactory results with them. The capacitor i
s
> small; bonded to the outside of the coil and makes no difference to
> installation of the coil inside the magneto.
>
>
> Richard Goode
>
>
> *From:* owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server
@
> matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *John B
> *Sent:* 20 February 2018 07:13
> *To:* Yak-List Digest Server <yak-list@matronics.com>
>
>
> *Subject:* Re: Yak-List: Re: Engine stumble in flight
>
>
> A coil failure in a magneto will feel the same as simply grounding the
> mag, or turning the mag "off." In other words, a coil failure with both
> mags "on" or "not grounded," will feel like nothing, other than, say, a
> five percent loss of performance. It won't cause a total engine failure.
> However, it is entirely possible for both magnetos to have intermittently
> failing coils. One is tired, and the other quits when it gets hot, so th
e
> engine stumbles, terrifying the pilot and passenger. The brief engine
> stumble rattles the coil enough for it to correct it's internal short, an
d
> the engine smooths out. Or, one has a spark plug wire problem on one mag
,
> and a failing coil on the other. The engine runs fine, until it gets goo
d
> and hot and the coil associated with the good spark plug wires fails.
> Terrifying!
>
>
> Magnetos get very hot in use. Has anyone fashioned dedicated cooling
> blast tubes to the magnetos? What does the Sukhoi use, if anything?
>
>
> We did the auto plug conversion, and immediately were rewarded with a
> better running engine. The auto plug conversion will reduce the weight o
f
> your airplane by a couple of pounds, which is also of benefit. The cost
of
> the kit is nominal.
>
>
> On Mon, Feb 19, 2018 at 11:26 PM, Walter Lannon <wlannon@shaw.ca> wrote:
>
>
> I have a really hard time accepting that a coil failure in one mag. can
> cause the other mag to fail.
>
> Have had only one definite coil failure. Occurred during pre-flight
> power & mag. check on a 1340 with American Bosch mags. Went dead as a
> doornail on that one but other just fine. New coil installed and back to
> normal.
>
> Have had two instances of the Huosai wake up call (2 sec. of silence).
> Two different aircraft & engines, x-country at around 7500 ft. throttle
> fully open trying to maintain about 65% power, mixture up to throttle (ma
x.
> lean). Maybe too lean!
> Since then with a large throttle opening at altitude I don't go quite as
> lean and have not (so far) had a recurrence.
>
> Don't know for sure but???????
>
> Walt
>
> -----Original Message----- From: Vic
> Sent: Sunday, February 18, 2018 6:33 AM
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Yak-List: Re: Engine stumble in flight
>
>
> We had quite some troubles with bad/new coils in past years and this took
> some time to find out all sides of the problem. Since we do a mag run up
> AFTER most flights after clearing the runway and have min. 70 percent ,
> better 80 percent revs to get a reliable check of ignition system.
> I built my own heat chamber and did 5 hour runs at min. 70 degrees C to
> test coil and capacitor. Remember, the alu foil capacitor is wound betwee
n
> primary and secondary windings within the coil - the worst place to put a
> capacitor. My guess is that the dielectric material and materials in the
> coil wires may age and since the electrical properties of components will
> become unsuitable to operate.
> Why do we NOT see the same hiccup of the engine when we do the mag chec
k
> on the ground , switching off one mag, compared to a short failure in
> flight ??? I just cannot figure that out . . .
>
> Vic
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=478080#478080
>
>
> Attachments:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/p1050315_kkk_138.jpg
> <http://forums.matronics.com/files/p1050315_kkk_138.jpg>
>
>
> ---
> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
> https://www.avast.com/antivirus
>
>
> ========================
===========
> List" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.
> matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
> ==========
> FORUMS -
> eferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com
> ==========
>
> WIKI -
> errer" target="_blank">http://wiki.matronics.com
> ==========
> b Site -
> -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
> rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contributio
n
> ==========
>
>
> --
> This message has been scanned for viruses and
> dangerous content by *MailScanner* <http://www.mailscanner.info/>, and is
> believed to be clean.
>
>
> --
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>
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: engine stumble |
I think Jan is correct, the coil probably fires at the wrong time rather
than shutting off. In the past the standard in auto racing was the Vertex
Magneto. The Vertex had an internal coil, Mallory came out with a magneto
which used an external coil, eventually Vertex went to an external coil. In
Top Fuel racing dual mags are used (MSD Mags) with external coils. It seems
that some people learned that packing everything in one place generates a
lot of heat, heat and electrical components are not the best of friends. The
Russian and Chinese engines were developed quite a while ago and were state
of the art at the time but time moves on.
Frank
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| Subject: | Re: Engine stumble in flight |
I believe that the coil failure actually fires the spark plug prematurely bu
rning the fuel charge while it=99s in the intake position that causes a
small burn back through the intake system consuming the fuel charge and tha
t=99s why the engine quits because it has no fuel for a second or two.
George Coy
Sent from my iPhone
> On Feb 20, 2018, at 9:43 AM, Ernest Martinez <erniel29@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Wrong
>
>> On Tue, Feb 20, 2018 at 5:28 AM, Richard Goode <Richard.goode@russianaero
s.com> wrote:
>> I'm sorry, but that is not correct! But over the last 25 years, I have ex
perienced coil problems on at least as many aircraft. Logic will tell you th
at a coil failure in one magneto will leave the engine running perfectly wel
l on the other magneto with a slight power loss. The practicality is differe
nt, and the engine will stop totally if the coil failure is serious. Of cour
se it will then restart, but enough to give the pilot, and indeed any passen
gers, a fright.
>>
>>
>>
>> Our own view is that, as has been said, the magneto gets very hot in oper
ation. And of course the coil is inside, and worse still, the capacitor is i
nside the coil, which is intrinsically getting hot with the current going th
rough the coil. In order to partially overcome this problem, we have develop
ed coils with an external capacitor which will run rather cooler, and have h
ad very satisfactory results with them. The capacitor is small; bonded to th
e outside of the coil and makes no difference to installation of the coil in
side the magneto.
>>
>>
>>
>> Richard Goode
>>
>>
>>
>> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@m
atronics.com] On Behalf Of John B
>> Sent: 20 February 2018 07:13
>> To: Yak-List Digest Server <yak-list@matronics.com>
>>
>>
>> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: Engine stumble in flight
>>
>>
>> A coil failure in a magneto will feel the same as simply grounding the ma
g, or turning the mag "off." In other words, a coil failure with both mags "
on" or "not grounded," will feel like nothing, other than, say, a five perce
nt loss of performance. It won't cause a total engine failure. However, it
is entirely possible for both magnetos to have intermittently failing coils
. One is tired, and the other quits when it gets hot, so the engine stumble
s, terrifying the pilot and passenger. The brief engine stumble rattles the
coil enough for it to correct it's internal short, and the engine smooths o
ut. Or, one has a spark plug wire problem on one mag, and a failing coil on
the other. The engine runs fine, until it gets good and hot and the coil a
ssociated with the good spark plug wires fails. Terrifying!
>>
>>
>>
>> Magnetos get very hot in use. Has anyone fashioned dedicated cooling bla
st tubes to the magnetos? What does the Sukhoi use, if anything?
>>
>>
>>
>> We did the auto plug conversion, and immediately were rewarded with a bet
ter running engine. The auto plug conversion will reduce the weight of your
airplane by a couple of pounds, which is also of benefit. The cost of the k
it is nominal.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Feb 19, 2018 at 11:26 PM, Walter Lannon <wlannon@shaw.ca> wrote:
>>
>>
>> I have a really hard time accepting that a coil failure in one mag. can c
ause the other mag to fail.
>>
>> Have had only one definite coil failure. Occurred during pre-flight pow
er & mag. check on a 1340 with American Bosch mags. Went dead as a doornail
on that one but other just fine. New coil installed and back to normal.
>>
>> Have had two instances of the Huosai wake up call (2 sec. of silence). T
wo different aircraft & engines, x-country at around 7500 ft. throttle fully
open trying to maintain about 65% power, mixture up to throttle (max. lean)
. Maybe too lean!
>> Since then with a large throttle opening at altitude I don't go quite as l
ean and have not (so far) had a recurrence.
>>
>> Don't know for sure but???????
>>
>> Walt
>>
>> -----Original Message----- From: Vic
>> Sent: Sunday, February 18, 2018 6:33 AM
>> To: yak-list@matronics.com
>> Subject: Yak-List: Re: Engine stumble in flight
>>
>>
>> We had quite some troubles with bad/new coils in past years and this took
some time to find out all sides of the problem. Since we do a mag run up AFT
ER most flights after clearing the runway and have min. 70 percent , better 8
0 percent revs to get a reliable check of ignition system.
>> I built my own heat chamber and did 5 hour runs at min. 70 degrees C to t
est coil and capacitor. Remember, the alu foil capacitor is wound between pr
imary and secondary windings within the coil - the worst place to put a capa
citor. My guess is that the dielectric material and materials in the coil wi
res may age and since the electrical properties of components will become un
suitable to operate.
>> Why do we NOT see the same hiccup of the engine when we do the mag chec
k on the ground , switching off one mag, compared to a short failure in flig
ht ??? I just cannot figure that out . . .
>>
>> Vic
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=478080#478080
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Attachments:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com//files/p1050315_kkk_138.jpg
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ---
>> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
>> https://www.avast.com/antivirus
>>
>>
>>
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ator?Yak-List
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>> ==========
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>> -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
>> rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contributio
n
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>>
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>>
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>> dangerous content by MailScanner, and is
>> believed to be clean.
>>
>
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Engine stumble in flight |
There is no question that this is correct. Jan Mevis and I talked about this
quite extensively. Something that further points to this is an experience
I had where the internal gearing in the mag housing went bad causing the right
mag to come out of time, in a rather extreme way. The engine just stopped running.
Cold stone dead. The guy in formation with me thought that he saw flames
coming out the exhaust, but was not sure, as there was also lots of smoke.
In any case, I switched to left only mag, and the engine immediately started
running again, perfectly in fact. When I went to both or right mag, the engine
just stopped dead in its tracks. So it is a proven fact that with the
mag firing the plugs at the wrong time, it can actually stop the engine from running.
Mark
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of George Coy
Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2018 11:18 AM
Subject: [Non-DoD Source] Re: Yak-List: Re: Engine stumble in flight
I believe that the coil failure actually fires the spark plug prematurely burning
the fuel charge while its in the intake position that causes a small burn back
through the intake system consuming the fuel charge and thats why the engine
quits because it has no fuel for a second or two.
George Coy
Sent from my iPhone
On Feb 20, 2018, at 9:43 AM, Ernest Martinez <erniel29@gmail.com> wrote:
Wrong
On Tue, Feb 20, 2018 at 5:28 AM, Richard Goode <Richard.goode@russianaeros.com>
wrote:
I'm sorry, but that is not correct! But over the last 25 years,
I have experienced coil problems on at least as many aircraft. Logic will tell
you that a coil failure in one magneto will leave the engine running perfectly
well on the other magneto with a slight power loss. The practicality is different,
and the engine will stop totally if the coil failure is serious. Of course
it will then restart, but enough to give the pilot, and indeed any passengers,
a fright.
Our own view is that, as has been said, the magneto gets very hot
in operation. And of course the coil is inside, and worse still, the capacitor
is inside the coil, which is intrinsically getting hot with the current going
through the coil. In order to partially overcome this problem, we have developed
coils with an external capacitor which will run rather cooler, and have
had very satisfactory results with them. The capacitor is small; bonded to the
outside of the coil and makes no difference to installation of the coil inside
the magneto.
Richard Goode
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com <mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com> [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com <mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com> ] On Behalf Of John B
Sent: 20 February 2018 07:13
To: Yak-List Digest Server <yak-list@matronics.com>
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: Engine stumble in flight
A coil failure in a magneto will feel the same as simply grounding
the mag, or turning the mag "off." In other words, a coil failure with both
mags "on" or "not grounded," will feel like nothing, other than, say, a five
percent loss of performance. It won't cause a total engine failure. However,
it is entirely possible for both magnetos to have intermittently failing coils.
One is tired, and the other quits when it gets hot, so the engine stumbles,
terrifying the pilot and passenger. The brief engine stumble rattles the
coil enough for it to correct it's internal short, and the engine smooths out.
Or, one has a spark plug wire problem on one mag, and a failing coil on the
other. The engine runs fine, until it gets good and hot and the coil associated
with the good spark plug wires fails. Terrifying!
Magnetos get very hot in use. Has anyone fashioned dedicated cooling
blast tubes to the magnetos? What does the Sukhoi use, if anything?
We did the auto plug conversion, and immediately were rewarded
with a better running engine. The auto plug conversion will reduce the weight
of your airplane by a couple of pounds, which is also of benefit. The cost of
the kit is nominal.
On Mon, Feb 19, 2018 at 11:26 PM, Walter Lannon <wlannon@shaw.ca>
wrote:
I have a really hard time accepting that a coil failure
in one mag. can cause the other mag to fail.
Have had only one definite coil failure. Occurred during
pre-flight power & mag. check on a 1340 with American Bosch mags. Went dead
as a doornail on that one but other just fine. New coil installed and back
to normal.
Have had two instances of the Huosai wake up call (2 sec.
of silence). Two different aircraft & engines, x-country at around 7500 ft.
throttle fully open trying to maintain about 65% power, mixture up to throttle
(max. lean). Maybe too lean!
Since then with a large throttle opening at altitude I
don't go quite as lean and have not (so far) had a recurrence.
Don't know for sure but???????
Walt
-----Original Message----- From: Vic
Sent: Sunday, February 18, 2018 6:33 AM
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Subject: Yak-List: Re: Engine stumble in flight
We had quite some troubles with bad/new coils in past years
and this took some time to find out all sides of the problem. Since we do
a mag run up AFTER most flights after clearing the runway and have min. 70 percent
, better 80 percent revs to get a reliable check of ignition system.
I built my own heat chamber and did 5 hour runs at min.
70 degrees C to test coil and capacitor. Remember, the alu foil capacitor is
wound between primary and secondary windings within the coil - the worst place
to put a capacitor. My guess is that the dielectric material and materials in
the coil wires may age and since the electrical properties of components will
become unsuitable to operate.
Why do we NOT see the same hiccup of the engine when
we do the mag check on the ground , switching off one mag, compared to a short
failure in flight ??? I just cannot figure that out . . .
Vic
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=478080#478080 <http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=478080#478080>
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/p1050315_kkk_138.jpg <http://forums.matronics.com/files/p1050315_kkk_138.jpg>
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Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Engine stumble in flight |
No John. When the coil breaks down with temperature, it is bad. As far as
drilling holes in the mag .... I am not sure how effective that would be for
cooling. The problem is that a coil operated in the way this one is, generates
a lot of heat itself... it is not really outside temperature that is the main
factor, it is core temperature that breaks down the insulation/varnish.
That being said, drilling a hole would be a very effective way to allow the RF
energy inside of the mag to get out resulting in additional radio noise.
Mark
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John B
Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2018 9:44 AM
Subject: [Non-DoD Source] Re: Yak-List: Re: Engine stumble in flight
It seems the problem is difficult to define... Would cooling air blast tubes to
each magneto help? We in the West are likely running these engines at higher
ambient temperatures than they were in Russia. One could drill a hole in each
magneto cover, in the area of the coil, and duct filtered air to the coil,
but what happens when one flies in the rain?
On Tue, Feb 20, 2018 at 3:42 AM, Jan Mevis <j.mevis@computer.org> wrote:
A coil failure is not simply having the mag grounded or turning it off.
Those who have witnessed it in flight will agree: it makes your heart beat stumble
too (it did when I witnessed it).
As far as I know theres still no scientific explanation of what happens exactly.
The problem with old coils is that the solvents used for applying the insulation,
are vapoured out.
Some tiny holes exist in the insulation material.
If humidity gets in, then at higher temperature the gases in the holes ionize
and cause a high-tension brake through.
I have a hunch (a guestimate) that the bad coil fires when it shouldnt fire.
But once again, I am not sure at all.
Anyway, bad coils is a serious problem.
Only my 2 cents,
Jan
From: <owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com <mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com> > on behalf of John B <jbsoar@gmail.com>
Date: Tuesday, 20 February 2018 at 08:12
To: "yak-list@matronics.com" <yak-list@matronics.com>
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: Engine stumble in flight
A coil failure in a magneto will feel the same as simply grounding the mag, or
turning the mag "off." In other words, a coil failure with both mags "on" or
"not grounded," will feel like nothing, other than, say, a five percent loss
of performance. It won't cause a total engine failure. However, it is entirely
possible for both magnetos to have intermittently failing coils. One is tired,
and the other quits when it gets hot, so the engine stumbles, terrifying
the pilot and passenger. The brief engine stumble rattles the coil enough for
it to correct it's internal short, and the engine smooths out. Or, one has a
spark plug wire problem on one mag, and a failing coil on the other. The engine
runs fine, until it gets good and hot and the coil associated with the good
spark plug wires fails. Terrifying!
Magnetos get very hot in use. Has anyone fashioned dedicated cooling blast tubes
to the magnetos? What does the Sukhoi use, if anything?
We did the auto plug conversion, and immediately were rewarded with a better running
engine. The auto plug conversion will reduce the weight of your airplane
by a couple of pounds, which is also of benefit. The cost of the kit is nominal.
On Mon, Feb 19, 2018 at 11:26 PM, Walter Lannon <wlannon@shaw.ca> wrote:
I have a really hard time accepting that a coil failure in one mag. can cause
the other mag to fail.
Have had only one definite coil failure. Occurred during pre-flight power &
mag. check on a 1340 with American Bosch mags. Went dead as a doornail on that
one but other just fine. New coil installed and back to normal.
Have had two instances of the Huosai wake up call (2 sec. of silence). Two different
aircraft & engines, x-country at around 7500 ft. throttle fully open
trying to maintain about 65% power, mixture up to throttle (max. lean). Maybe
too lean!
Since then with a large throttle opening at altitude I don't go quite as lean
and have not (so far) had a recurrence.
Don't know for sure but???????
Walt
-----Original Message----- From: Vic
Sent: Sunday, February 18, 2018 6:33 AM
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Subject: Yak-List: Re: Engine stumble in flight
We had quite some troubles with bad/new coils in past years and this took some
time to find out all sides of the problem. Since we do a mag run up AFTER most
flights after clearing the runway and have min. 70 percent , better 80 percent
revs to get a reliable check of ignition system.
I built my own heat chamber and did 5 hour runs at min. 70 degrees C to test
coil and capacitor. Remember, the alu foil capacitor is wound between primary
and secondary windings within the coil - the worst place to put a capacitor.
My guess is that the dielectric material and materials in the coil wires may age
and since the electrical properties of components will become unsuitable to
operate.
Why do we NOT see the same hiccup of the engine when we do the mag check on
the ground , switching off one mag, compared to a short failure in flight ???
I just cannot figure that out . . .
Vic
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=478080#478080 <http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=478080#478080>
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/p1050315_kkk_138.jpg <http://forums.matronics.com//files/p1050315_kkk_138.jpg>
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Message 13
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| Subject: | Canopy latch modification. |
Anyone have a picture of a canopy latch mod where they added to the push button
to make opening the canopy from the outside.
Thanks.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=478138#478138
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Engine stumble in flight |
Bingo!!!!
Dennis
From: George Coy <george.coy@gmail.com>
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2018 11:19 AM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: Engine stumble in flight
I believe that the coil failure actually fires the spark plug prematurely b
urning the fuel charge while it=99s in the intake position that cause
s a small burn back through the intake system consuming the fuel charge and
that=99s why the engine quits because it has no fuel for a second or
two.=C2-George Coy
Sent from my iPhone
On Feb 20, 2018, at 9:43 AM, Ernest Martinez <erniel29@gmail.com> wrote:
Wrong
On Tue, Feb 20, 2018 at 5:28 AM, Richard Goode <Richard.goode@russianaeros.
com> wrote:
I'm sorry, but that is not correct! But over the last 25 years, I have expe
rienced coil problems on at least as many aircraft. Logic will tell you tha
t a coil failure in one magneto will leave the engine running perfectly wel
l on the other magneto with a slight power loss. The practicality is differ
ent, and the engine will stop totally if the coil failure is serious. Of co
urse it will then restart, but enough to give the pilot, and indeed any pas
sengers, a fright.=C2-Our own view is that, as has been said, the magneto
gets very hot in operation. And of course the coil is inside, and worse st
ill, the capacitor is inside the coil, which is intrinsically getting hot w
ith the current going through the coil. In order to partially overcome this
problem, we have developed coils with an external capacitor which will run
rather cooler, and have had very satisfactory results with them. The capac
itor is small; bonded to the outside of the coil and makes no difference to
installation of the coil inside the magneto.=C2-Richard Goode=C2-From:
owner-yak-list-server@ matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@ matron
ics.com] On Behalf Of John B
Sent: 20 February 2018 07:13
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: Engine stumble in flight=C2-A coil failure in
a magneto will feel the same as simply grounding the mag, or turning the ma
g "off."=C2- In other words, a coil failure with both mags "on" or "not g
rounded," will feel like nothing, other than, say, a five percent loss of p
erformance.=C2- It won't cause a total engine failure.=C2- However, it
is entirely possible for both magnetos to have intermittently failing coils
.=C2- One is tired, and the other quits when it gets hot, so the engine s
tumbles, terrifying the pilot and passenger.=C2- The brief engine stumble
rattles the coil enough for it to correct it's internal short, and the eng
ine smooths out.=C2- Or, one has a spark plug wire problem on one mag, an
d a failing coil on the other.=C2- The engine runs fine, until it gets go
od and hot and the coil associated with the good spark plug wires fails.=C2
- Terrifying!=C2-Magnetos get very hot in use.=C2- Has anyone fashion
ed dedicated cooling blast tubes to the magnetos?=C2- What does the Sukho
i use, if anything?=C2-We did the auto plug conversion, and immediately w
ere rewarded with a better running engine.=C2- The auto plug conversion w
ill reduce the weight of your airplane by a couple of pounds, which is also
of benefit.=C2- The cost of the kit is nominal.=C2-=C2-On Mon, Feb 1
9, 2018 at 11:26 PM, Walter Lannon <wlannon@shaw.ca> wrote:
I have a really hard time accepting that a coil failure in one mag. can cau
se the other mag to fail.
Have had only one definite coil failure.=C2- =C2-Occurred during pre-fl
ight power & mag. check on a 1340 with American Bosch mags.=C2- Went dead
as a doornail on that one but other just fine.=C2- New coil installed an
d back to normal.
Have had two instances of the Huosai wake up call (2 sec. of silence).=C2
- Two different aircraft & engines, x-country at around 7500 ft. throttle
fully open trying to maintain about 65% power, mixture up to throttle (max
. lean). Maybe too lean!
Since then with a large throttle opening at altitude I don't go quite as le
an and have not (so far) had a recurrence.
Don't know for sure but???????
Walt
-----Original Message----- From: Vic
Sent: Sunday, February 18, 2018 6:33 AM
Subject: Yak-List: Re: Engine stumble in flight
We had quite some troubles with bad/new coils in past years and this took s
ome time to find out all sides of the problem. Since we do a mag run up AFT
ER most flights after clearing the runway and have min. 70 percent , better
80 percent revs to get a reliable check of ignition system.
=C2-I built my own heat chamber and did 5 hour runs at min. 70 degrees C
to test coil and capacitor. Remember, the alu foil capacitor is wound betwe
en primary and secondary windings within the coil - the worst place to put
a capacitor. My guess is that the dielectric material and materials in the
coil wires may age and since the electrical properties of components will b
ecome unsuitable to operate.
=C2- Why do we NOT see the same hiccup of the engine when we do the mag c
heck on the ground , switching off one mag, compared to a short failure in
flight ??? I just cannot figure that out . . .
=C2- =C2- =C2-Vic
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/ viewtopic.php?p=478080#478080
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com// files/p1050315_kkk_138.jpg
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Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Canopy latch modification. |
Try this.Drill and tap the center of the push button for a 10-32 thread.=C2
- Using an AN3-10 bolt (or close to it), thread the bolt into the drilled
and tapped 10-32 hole in the button.=C2- Next, cut off the head of the b
olt and finish off the end of the bolt with a file.=C2- The length of bol
t after it is cut of should be about 1/2" to 5/8".=C2-=C2- To open, sim
ply push down on the end of the bolt rather than trying to push in on the b
utton.
If you want long term security for the bolt, put a small amount of JB Weld
epoxy on the bolt threads before you thread the bolt into the hole.
Dennis
From: AlaskaChang801 <themilnes95@gmail.com>
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2018 12:44 PM
Subject: Yak-List: Canopy latch modification.
Anyone have a picture of a canopy latch mod where they added to the push bu
tton to make opening the canopy from the outside.
Thanks.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=478138#478138
S -
WIKI -
-
=C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Engine stumble in flight |
Thanks Mark, George and Jan! Now makes perfect sense.
Has anyone looked at the possibility of adapting these mags to accept an
available external coil assy.? Bendix, Slick or?
Walt
-----Original Message-----
From: Bitterlich, Mark G CIV NAVAIR, WD
Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2018 8:31 AM
Subject: RE: [Non-DoD Source] Re: Yak-List: Re: Engine stumble in flight
<mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
There is no question that this is correct. Jan Mevis and I talked about
this quite extensively. Something that further points to this is an
experience I had where the internal gearing in the mag housing went bad
causing the right mag to come out of time, in a rather extreme way. The
engine just stopped running. Cold stone dead. The guy in formation with me
thought that he saw flames coming out the exhaust, but was not sure, as
there was also lots of smoke. In any case, I switched to left only mag,
and the engine immediately started running again, perfectly in fact. When I
went to both or right mag, the engine just stopped dead in its tracks. So
it is a proven fact that with the mag firing the plugs at the wrong time, it
can actually stop the engine from running.
Mark
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of George Coy
Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2018 11:18 AM
Subject: [Non-DoD Source] Re: Yak-List: Re: Engine stumble in flight
I believe that the coil failure actually fires the spark plug prematurely
burning the fuel charge while its in the intake position that causes a
small burn back through the intake system consuming the fuel charge and thats
why the engine quits because it has no fuel for a second or two.
George Coy
Sent from my iPhone
On Feb 20, 2018, at 9:43 AM, Ernest Martinez <erniel29@gmail.com> wrote:
Wrong
On Tue, Feb 20, 2018 at 5:28 AM, Richard Goode
<Richard.goode@russianaeros.com> wrote:
I'm sorry, but that is not correct! But over the last 25
years, I have experienced coil problems on at least as many aircraft. Logic
will tell you that a coil failure in one magneto will leave the engine
running perfectly well on the other magneto with a slight power loss. The
practicality is different, and the engine will stop totally if the coil
failure is serious. Of course it will then restart, but enough to give the
pilot, and indeed any passengers, a fright.
Our own view is that, as has been said, the magneto gets
very hot in operation. And of course the coil is inside, and worse still,
the capacitor is inside the coil, which is intrinsically getting hot with
the current going through the coil. In order to partially overcome this
problem, we have developed coils with an external capacitor which will run
rather cooler, and have had very satisfactory results with them. The
capacitor is small; bonded to the outside of the coil and makes no
difference to installation of the coil inside the magneto.
Richard Goode
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
<mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com>
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
<mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com> ] On Behalf Of John B
Sent: 20 February 2018 07:13
To: Yak-List Digest Server <yak-list@matronics.com>
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: Engine stumble in flight
A coil failure in a magneto will feel the same as simply
grounding the mag, or turning the mag "off." In other words, a coil failure
with both mags "on" or "not grounded," will feel like nothing, other than,
say, a five percent loss of performance. It won't cause a total engine
failure. However, it is entirely possible for both magnetos to have
intermittently failing coils. One is tired, and the other quits when it
gets hot, so the engine stumbles, terrifying the pilot and passenger. The
brief engine stumble rattles the coil enough for it to correct it's internal
short, and the engine smooths out. Or, one has a spark plug wire problem on
one mag, and a failing coil on the other. The engine runs fine, until it
gets good and hot and the coil associated with the good spark plug wires
fails. Terrifying!
Magnetos get very hot in use. Has anyone fashioned
dedicated cooling blast tubes to the magnetos? What does the Sukhoi use, if
anything?
We did the auto plug conversion, and immediately were
rewarded with a better running engine. The auto plug conversion will reduce
the weight of your airplane by a couple of pounds, which is also of benefit.
The cost of the kit is nominal.
On Mon, Feb 19, 2018 at 11:26 PM, Walter Lannon
<wlannon@shaw.ca> wrote:
<wlannon@shaw.ca>
I have a really hard time accepting that a coil
failure in one mag. can cause the other mag to fail.
Have had only one definite coil failure. Occurred
during pre-flight power & mag. check on a 1340 with American Bosch mags.
Went dead as a doornail on that one but other just fine. New coil installed
and back to normal.
Have had two instances of the Huosai wake up call (2
sec. of silence). Two different aircraft & engines, x-country at around
7500 ft. throttle fully open trying to maintain about 65% power, mixture up
to throttle (max. lean). Maybe too lean!
Since then with a large throttle opening at altitude
I don't go quite as lean and have not (so far) had a recurrence.
Don't know for sure but???????
Walt
-----Original Message----- From: Vic
Sent: Sunday, February 18, 2018 6:33 AM
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Subject: Yak-List: Re: Engine stumble in flight
<vicmolnar@aol.com>
We had quite some troubles with bad/new coils in
past years and this took some time to find out all sides of the problem.
Since we do a mag run up AFTER most flights after clearing the runway and
have min. 70 percent , better 80 percent revs to get a reliable check of
ignition system.
I built my own heat chamber and did 5 hour runs at
min. 70 degrees C to test coil and capacitor. Remember, the alu foil
capacitor is wound between primary and secondary windings within the coil -
the worst place to put a capacitor. My guess is that the dielectric material
and materials in the coil wires may age and since the electrical properties
of components will become unsuitable to operate.
Why do we NOT see the same hiccup of the engine
when we do the mag check on the ground , switching off one mag, compared to
a short failure in flight ??? I just cannot figure that out . . .
Vic
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=478080#478080
<http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=478080#478080>
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/p1050315_kkk_138.jpg
<http://forums.matronics.com/files/p1050315_kkk_138.jpg>
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Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Engine stumble in flight |
What exactly happens when a magneto coil fails? How would a mag fire a
spark plug prematurely, of the mag fires when the points open?
Can anyone explain this?
On Tue, Feb 20, 2018 at 10:18 AM, George Coy <george.coy@gmail.com> wrote:
> I believe that the coil failure actually fires the spark plug prematurely
> burning the fuel charge while it=99s in the intake position that ca
uses a
> small burn back through the intake system consuming the fuel charge and
> that=99s why the engine quits because it has no fuel for a second o
r two.
> George Coy
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Feb 20, 2018, at 9:43 AM, Ernest Martinez <erniel29@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Wrong
>
> On Tue, Feb 20, 2018 at 5:28 AM, Richard Goode <
> Richard.goode@russianaeros.com> wrote:
>
>> I'm sorry, but that is not correct! But over the last 25 years, I have
>> experienced coil problems on at least as many aircraft. Logic will tell
you
>> that a coil failure in one magneto will leave the engine running perfect
ly
>> well on the other magneto with a slight power loss. The practicality is
>> different, and the engine will stop totally if the coil failure is serio
us.
>> Of course it will then restart, but enough to give the pilot, and indeed
>> any passengers, a fright.
>>
>>
>>
>> Our own view is that, as has been said, the magneto gets very hot in
>> operation. And of course the coil is inside, and worse still, the capaci
tor
>> is inside the coil, which is intrinsically getting hot with the current
>> going through the coil. In order to partially overcome this problem, we
>> have developed coils with an external capacitor which will run rather
>> cooler, and have had very satisfactory results with them. The capacitor
is
>> small; bonded to the outside of the coil and makes no difference to
>> installation of the coil inside the magneto.
>>
>>
>>
>> Richard Goode
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:
>> owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *John B
>> *Sent:* 20 February 2018 07:13
>> *To:* Yak-List Digest Server <yak-list@matronics.com>
>>
>> *Subject:* Re: Yak-List: Re: Engine stumble in flight
>>
>>
>>
>> A coil failure in a magneto will feel the same as simply grounding the
>> mag, or turning the mag "off." In other words, a coil failure with both
>> mags "on" or "not grounded," will feel like nothing, other than, say, a
>> five percent loss of performance. It won't cause a total engine failure
.
>> However, it is entirely possible for both magnetos to have intermittentl
y
>> failing coils. One is tired, and the other quits when it gets hot, so t
he
>> engine stumbles, terrifying the pilot and passenger. The brief engine
>> stumble rattles the coil enough for it to correct it's internal short, a
nd
>> the engine smooths out. Or, one has a spark plug wire problem on one ma
g,
>> and a failing coil on the other. The engine runs fine, until it gets go
od
>> and hot and the coil associated with the good spark plug wires fails.
>> Terrifying!
>>
>>
>>
>> Magnetos get very hot in use. Has anyone fashioned dedicated cooling
>> blast tubes to the magnetos? What does the Sukhoi use, if anything?
>>
>>
>>
>> We did the auto plug conversion, and immediately were rewarded with a
>> better running engine. The auto plug conversion will reduce the weight
of
>> your airplane by a couple of pounds, which is also of benefit. The cost
of
>> the kit is nominal.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Feb 19, 2018 at 11:26 PM, Walter Lannon <wlannon@shaw.ca> wrote:
>>
>>
>> I have a really hard time accepting that a coil failure in one mag. can
>> cause the other mag to fail.
>>
>> Have had only one definite coil failure. Occurred during pre-flight
>> power & mag. check on a 1340 with American Bosch mags. Went dead as a
>> doornail on that one but other just fine. New coil installed and back t
o
>> normal.
>>
>> Have had two instances of the Huosai wake up call (2 sec. of silence).
>> Two different aircraft & engines, x-country at around 7500 ft. throttle
>> fully open trying to maintain about 65% power, mixture up to throttle (m
ax.
>> lean). Maybe too lean!
>> Since then with a large throttle opening at altitude I don't go quite as
>> lean and have not (so far) had a recurrence.
>>
>> Don't know for sure but???????
>>
>> Walt
>>
>> -----Original Message----- From: Vic
>> Sent: Sunday, February 18, 2018 6:33 AM
>> To: yak-list@matronics.com
>> Subject: Yak-List: Re: Engine stumble in flight
>>
>>
>> We had quite some troubles with bad/new coils in past years and this too
k
>> some time to find out all sides of the problem. Since we do a mag run up
>> AFTER most flights after clearing the runway and have min. 70 percent ,
>> better 80 percent revs to get a reliable check of ignition system.
>> I built my own heat chamber and did 5 hour runs at min. 70 degrees C to
>> test coil and capacitor. Remember, the alu foil capacitor is wound betwe
en
>> primary and secondary windings within the coil - the worst place to put
a
>> capacitor. My guess is that the dielectric material and materials in the
>> coil wires may age and since the electrical properties of components wil
l
>> become unsuitable to operate.
>> Why do we NOT see the same hiccup of the engine when we do the mag
>> check on the ground , switching off one mag, compared to a short failure
in
>> flight ??? I just cannot figure that out . . .
>>
>> Vic
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=478080#478080
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Attachments:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com//files/p1050315_kkk_138.jpg
>> <http://forums.matronics.com/files/p1050315_kkk_138.jpg>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ---
>> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
>> https://www.avast.com/antivirus
>>
>>
>>
>> ========================
===========
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>> ronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
>> ==========
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>> eferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com
>> ==========
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>> errer" target="_blank">http://wiki.matronics.com
>> ==========
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>> -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
>> rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contributi
on
>> ========================
===========
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> This message has been scanned for viruses and
>> dangerous content by *MailScanner* <http://www.mailscanner.info/>, and
>> is
>> believed to be clean.
>>
>
>
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Engine stumble in flight |
I would think you would have to make them into a low tension type first
then add the external coil.
Tom Elliott
CJ-6A NX63727
777 Quartz Ave
PMB 7004
Sandy Valley NV.
89019
Cell 541-297-5497
N13472@AOL.COM
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Walter Lannon
Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2018 10:36 AM
Subject: Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: Yak-List: Re: Engine stumble in flight
Thanks Mark, George and Jan! Now makes perfect sense.
Has anyone looked at the possibility of adapting these mags to accept an
available external coil assy.? Bendix, Slick or?
Walt
-----Original Message-----
From: Bitterlich, Mark G CIV NAVAIR, WD
Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2018 8:31 AM
Subject: RE: [Non-DoD Source] Re: Yak-List: Re: Engine stumble in flight
<mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
There is no question that this is correct. Jan Mevis and I talked about
this quite extensively. Something that further points to this is an
experience I had where the internal gearing in the mag housing went bad
causing the right mag to come out of time, in a rather extreme way. The
engine just stopped running. Cold stone dead. The guy in formation with me thought
that he saw flames coming out the exhaust, but was not sure, as
there was also lots of smoke. In any case, I switched to left only mag,
and the engine immediately started running again, perfectly in fact. When I
went to both or right mag, the engine just stopped dead in its tracks. So
it is a proven fact that with the mag firing the plugs at the wrong time, it can
actually stop the engine from running.
Mark
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of George Coy
Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2018 11:18 AM
Subject: [Non-DoD Source] Re: Yak-List: Re: Engine stumble in flight
I believe that the coil failure actually fires the spark plug prematurely burning
the fuel charge while its in the intake position that causes a small burn back
through the intake system consuming the fuel charge and thats why the engine
quits because it has no fuel for a second or two.
George Coy
Sent from my iPhone
On Feb 20, 2018, at 9:43 AM, Ernest Martinez <erniel29@gmail.com> wrote:
Wrong
On Tue, Feb 20, 2018 at 5:28 AM, Richard Goode <Richard.goode@russianaeros.com>
wrote:
I'm sorry, but that is not correct! But over the last 25
years, I have experienced coil problems on at least as many aircraft. Logic
will tell you that a coil failure in one magneto will leave the engine
running perfectly well on the other magneto with a slight power loss. The
practicality is different, and the engine will stop totally if the coil
failure is serious. Of course it will then restart, but enough to give the
pilot, and indeed any passengers, a fright.
Our own view is that, as has been said, the magneto gets
very hot in operation. And of course the coil is inside, and worse still,
the capacitor is inside the coil, which is intrinsically getting hot with
the current going through the coil. In order to partially overcome this
problem, we have developed coils with an external capacitor which will run
rather cooler, and have had very satisfactory results with them. The
capacitor is small; bonded to the outside of the coil and makes no
difference to installation of the coil inside the magneto.
Richard Goode
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
<mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com>
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
<mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com> ] On Behalf Of John B
Sent: 20 February 2018 07:13
To: Yak-List Digest Server <yak-list@matronics.com>
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: Engine stumble in flight
A coil failure in a magneto will feel the same as simply
grounding the mag, or turning the mag "off." In other words, a coil failure
with both mags "on" or "not grounded," will feel like nothing, other than,
say, a five percent loss of performance. It won't cause a total engine
failure. However, it is entirely possible for both magnetos to have
intermittently failing coils. One is tired, and the other quits when it
gets hot, so the engine stumbles, terrifying the pilot and passenger. The
brief engine stumble rattles the coil enough for it to correct it's internal
short, and the engine smooths out. Or, one has a spark plug wire problem on
one mag, and a failing coil on the other. The engine runs fine, until it
gets good and hot and the coil associated with the good spark plug wires
fails. Terrifying!
Magnetos get very hot in use. Has anyone fashioned
dedicated cooling blast tubes to the magnetos? What does the Sukhoi use, if
anything?
We did the auto plug conversion, and immediately were
rewarded with a better running engine. The auto plug conversion will reduce
the weight of your airplane by a couple of pounds, which is also of benefit.
The cost of the kit is nominal.
On Mon, Feb 19, 2018 at 11:26 PM, Walter Lannon
<wlannon@shaw.ca> wrote:
<wlannon@shaw.ca>
I have a really hard time accepting that a coil
failure in one mag. can cause the other mag to fail.
Have had only one definite coil failure. Occurred
during pre-flight power & mag. check on a 1340 with American Bosch mags.
Went dead as a doornail on that one but other just fine. New coil installed
and back to normal.
Have had two instances of the Huosai wake up call (2
sec. of silence). Two different aircraft & engines, x-country at around
7500 ft. throttle fully open trying to maintain about 65% power, mixture up
to throttle (max. lean). Maybe too lean!
Since then with a large throttle opening at altitude
I don't go quite as lean and have not (so far) had a recurrence.
Don't know for sure but???????
Walt
-----Original Message----- From: Vic
Sent: Sunday, February 18, 2018 6:33 AM
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Subject: Yak-List: Re: Engine stumble in flight
<vicmolnar@aol.com>
We had quite some troubles with bad/new coils in
past years and this took some time to find out all sides of the problem.
Since we do a mag run up AFTER most flights after clearing the runway and
have min. 70 percent , better 80 percent revs to get a reliable check of
ignition system.
I built my own heat chamber and did 5 hour runs at
min. 70 degrees C to test coil and capacitor. Remember, the alu foil
capacitor is wound between primary and secondary windings within the coil -
the worst place to put a capacitor. My guess is that the dielectric material
and materials in the coil wires may age and since the electrical properties
of components will become unsuitable to operate.
Why do we NOT see the same hiccup of the engine
when we do the mag check on the ground , switching off one mag, compared to
a short failure in flight ??? I just cannot figure that out . . .
Vic
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=478080#478080
<http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=478080#478080>
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/p1050315_kkk_138.jpg
<http://forums.matronics.com/files/p1050315_kkk_138.jpg>
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| Subject: | Canopy latch modification. |
I took a 10 / 32 structural screw slipped some washer the
soldered / brazed them together, chucked it in the drill press
using a file made a ball shaped nob . Be working well for 16 years.
Picture attached
Tom Elliott
CJ-6A NX63727
777 Quartz Ave
PMB 7004
Sandy Valley NV.
89019
Cell 541-297-5497
N13472@AOL.COM
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@mat
ronics.com] On Behalf Of A. Dennis Savarese
Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2018 10:36 AM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Canopy latch modification.
Try this.
Drill and tap the center of the push button for a 10-32 thread. Using an A
N3-10 bolt (or close to it), thread the bolt into the drilled and tapped 10
-32 hole in the button. Next, cut off the head of the bolt and finish off
the end of the bolt with a file. The length of bolt after it is cut of sho
uld be about 1/2" to 5/8". To open, simply push down on the end of the bo
lt rather than trying to push in on the button.
If you want long term security for the bolt, put a small amount of JB Weld
epoxy on the bolt threads before you thread the bolt into the hole.
Dennis
_____
From: AlaskaChang801 <themilnes95@gmail.com>
Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2018 12:44 PM
Subject: Yak-List: Canopy latch modification.
Anyone have a picture of a canopy latch mod where they added to the push bu
tton to make opening the canopy from the outside.
Thanks.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=478138#478138
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| Subject: | Emailing: TE202925 |
From: Tom Elliott [mailto:n13472@aol.com]
Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2018 11:17 AM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Canopy latch modification.
I took a 10 / 32 structural screw slipped some washer the
soldered / brazed them together, chucked it in the drill press
using a file made a ball shaped nob . Be working well for 16 years.
Picture attached
Tom Elliott
CJ-6A NX63727
777 Quartz Ave
PMB 7004
Sandy Valley NV.
89019
Cell 541-297-5497
N13472@AOL.COM
Your message is ready to be sent with the following file or link
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| Subject: | Emailing: TE202925 |
From: Tom Elliott [mailto:n13472@aol.com]
Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2018 11:17 AM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Canopy latch modification.
I took a 10 / 32 structural screw slipped some washer the
soldered / brazed them together, chucked it in the drill press
using a file made a ball shaped nob . Be working well for 16 years.
Picture attached
Tom Elliott
CJ-6A NX63727
777 Quartz Ave
PMB 7004
Sandy Valley NV.
89019
Cell 541-297-5497
N13472@AOL.COM
Your message is ready to be sent with the following file or link
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| Subject: | Re: Canopy latch modification. |
Thanks for the reply and its exactly how Doug Sapp explained someone had done it,
so I appreciate you elaborating on the mod.
Ill give it a try.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=478147#478147
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: Engine stumble in flight |
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Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: Engine stumble in flight |
This is called: "Mark Bitterlich's design to adapt an MSD Ignition system to
an M-14 magneto"
I believe Craig Payne took that design modified it a tad and then ran with it,
which I offered to everyone on this list some years ago. He did come up with
a pretty slick mag cap to go with it. Basically it uses an MSD-6 series controller,
with an external coil, and then runs the high voltage right back into
the mag and up to the cap. The down side of the design is that it requires
aircraft power to run it, either from the battery or generator. It is not "stand
alone" like a true mag is.
Mark
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Walter Lannon
Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2018 1:36 PM
Subject: Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: Yak-List: Re: Engine stumble in flight
Thanks Mark, George and Jan! Now makes perfect sense.
Has anyone looked at the possibility of adapting these mags to accept an
available external coil assy.? Bendix, Slick or?
Walt
-----Original Message-----
From: Bitterlich, Mark G CIV NAVAIR, WD
Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2018 8:31 AM
Subject: RE: [Non-DoD Source] Re: Yak-List: Re: Engine stumble in flight
<mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
There is no question that this is correct. Jan Mevis and I talked about
this quite extensively. Something that further points to this is an
experience I had where the internal gearing in the mag housing went bad
causing the right mag to come out of time, in a rather extreme way. The
engine just stopped running. Cold stone dead. The guy in formation with me thought
that he saw flames coming out the exhaust, but was not sure, as
there was also lots of smoke. In any case, I switched to left only mag,
and the engine immediately started running again, perfectly in fact. When I
went to both or right mag, the engine just stopped dead in its tracks. So
it is a proven fact that with the mag firing the plugs at the wrong time, it can
actually stop the engine from running.
Mark
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of George Coy
Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2018 11:18 AM
Subject: [Non-DoD Source] Re: Yak-List: Re: Engine stumble in flight
I believe that the coil failure actually fires the spark plug prematurely burning
the fuel charge while its in the intake position that causes a small burn back
through the intake system consuming the fuel charge and thats why the engine
quits because it has no fuel for a second or two.
George Coy
Sent from my iPhone
On Feb 20, 2018, at 9:43 AM, Ernest Martinez <erniel29@gmail.com> wrote:
Wrong
On Tue, Feb 20, 2018 at 5:28 AM, Richard Goode <Richard.goode@russianaeros.com>
wrote:
I'm sorry, but that is not correct! But over the last 25
years, I have experienced coil problems on at least as many aircraft. Logic
will tell you that a coil failure in one magneto will leave the engine
running perfectly well on the other magneto with a slight power loss. The
practicality is different, and the engine will stop totally if the coil
failure is serious. Of course it will then restart, but enough to give the
pilot, and indeed any passengers, a fright.
Our own view is that, as has been said, the magneto gets
very hot in operation. And of course the coil is inside, and worse still,
the capacitor is inside the coil, which is intrinsically getting hot with
the current going through the coil. In order to partially overcome this
problem, we have developed coils with an external capacitor which will run
rather cooler, and have had very satisfactory results with them. The
capacitor is small; bonded to the outside of the coil and makes no
difference to installation of the coil inside the magneto.
Richard Goode
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
<mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com>
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
<mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com> ] On Behalf Of John B
Sent: 20 February 2018 07:13
To: Yak-List Digest Server <yak-list@matronics.com>
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: Engine stumble in flight
A coil failure in a magneto will feel the same as simply
grounding the mag, or turning the mag "off." In other words, a coil failure
with both mags "on" or "not grounded," will feel like nothing, other than,
say, a five percent loss of performance. It won't cause a total engine
failure. However, it is entirely possible for both magnetos to have
intermittently failing coils. One is tired, and the other quits when it
gets hot, so the engine stumbles, terrifying the pilot and passenger. The
brief engine stumble rattles the coil enough for it to correct it's internal
short, and the engine smooths out. Or, one has a spark plug wire problem on
one mag, and a failing coil on the other. The engine runs fine, until it
gets good and hot and the coil associated with the good spark plug wires
fails. Terrifying!
Magnetos get very hot in use. Has anyone fashioned
dedicated cooling blast tubes to the magnetos? What does the Sukhoi use, if
anything?
We did the auto plug conversion, and immediately were
rewarded with a better running engine. The auto plug conversion will reduce
the weight of your airplane by a couple of pounds, which is also of benefit.
The cost of the kit is nominal.
On Mon, Feb 19, 2018 at 11:26 PM, Walter Lannon
<wlannon@shaw.ca> wrote:
<wlannon@shaw.ca>
I have a really hard time accepting that a coil
failure in one mag. can cause the other mag to fail.
Have had only one definite coil failure. Occurred
during pre-flight power & mag. check on a 1340 with American Bosch mags.
Went dead as a doornail on that one but other just fine. New coil installed
and back to normal.
Have had two instances of the Huosai wake up call (2
sec. of silence). Two different aircraft & engines, x-country at around
7500 ft. throttle fully open trying to maintain about 65% power, mixture up
to throttle (max. lean). Maybe too lean!
Since then with a large throttle opening at altitude
I don't go quite as lean and have not (so far) had a recurrence.
Don't know for sure but???????
Walt
-----Original Message----- From: Vic
Sent: Sunday, February 18, 2018 6:33 AM
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Subject: Yak-List: Re: Engine stumble in flight
<vicmolnar@aol.com>
We had quite some troubles with bad/new coils in
past years and this took some time to find out all sides of the problem.
Since we do a mag run up AFTER most flights after clearing the runway and
have min. 70 percent , better 80 percent revs to get a reliable check of
ignition system.
I built my own heat chamber and did 5 hour runs at
min. 70 degrees C to test coil and capacitor. Remember, the alu foil
capacitor is wound between primary and secondary windings within the coil -
the worst place to put a capacitor. My guess is that the dielectric material
and materials in the coil wires may age and since the electrical properties
of components will become unsuitable to operate.
Why do we NOT see the same hiccup of the engine
when we do the mag check on the ground , switching off one mag, compared to
a short failure in flight ??? I just cannot figure that out . . .
Vic
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=478080#478080
<http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=478080#478080>
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/p1050315_kkk_138.jpg
<http://forums.matronics.com/files/p1050315_kkk_138.jpg>
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| Subject: | Re: Engine stumble in flight |
Hello,
a fellow Yak pilot got grounded on a remote airport due to a coil failure last
year. Coils were not available over here in Europe, they had to be made.
So I ordered a spare set and put them in the shelf, just in case.
It turned out that they are just refurbished. Old core, new windings.
Are there any improvements or are there different type of coils on the market ?
Can the design be improved to reduce failures ?
thx
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=478152#478152
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| Subject: | Re: Engine stumble in flight |
An intermittent in the primary would do just that. The primary builds a field,
the primary wire opens, the field collapses. In other words an intermittent
in the primary would be just like the points opening early. You would not
necessarily have the same peak voltage, but there would be enough. It's possible
a breakdown in insulation could do it as well.
Mark
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John B
Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2018 1:51 PM
Subject: [Non-DoD Source] Re: Yak-List: Re: Engine stumble in flight
What exactly happens when a magneto coil fails? How would a mag fire a spark plug
prematurely, of the mag fires when the points open?
Can anyone explain this?
On Tue, Feb 20, 2018 at 10:18 AM, George Coy <george.coy@gmail.com> wrote:
I believe that the coil failure actually fires the spark plug prematurely
burning the fuel charge while its in the intake position that causes a small
burn back through the intake system consuming the fuel charge and thats why
the engine quits because it has no fuel for a second or two.
George Coy
Sent from my iPhone
On Feb 20, 2018, at 9:43 AM, Ernest Martinez <erniel29@gmail.com> wrote:
Wrong
On Tue, Feb 20, 2018 at 5:28 AM, Richard Goode <Richard.goode@russianaeros.com <mailto:Richard.goode@russianaeros.com> > wrote:
I'm sorry, but that is not correct! But over the last 25
years, I have experienced coil problems on at least as many aircraft. Logic
will tell you that a coil failure in one magneto will leave the engine running
perfectly well on the other magneto with a slight power loss. The practicality
is different, and the engine will stop totally if the coil failure is serious.
Of course it will then restart, but enough to give the pilot, and indeed any
passengers, a fright.
Our own view is that, as has been said, the magneto gets
very hot in operation. And of course the coil is inside, and worse still, the
capacitor is inside the coil, which is intrinsically getting hot with the current
going through the coil. In order to partially overcome this problem, we
have developed coils with an external capacitor which will run rather cooler,
and have had very satisfactory results with them. The capacitor is small; bonded
to the outside of the coil and makes no difference to installation of the coil
inside the magneto.
Richard Goode
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com <mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com> [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com <mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com> ] On Behalf Of John B
Sent: 20 February 2018 07:13
To: Yak-List Digest Server <yak-list@matronics.com>
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: Engine stumble in flight
A coil failure in a magneto will feel the same as simply
grounding the mag, or turning the mag "off." In other words, a coil failure
with both mags "on" or "not grounded," will feel like nothing, other than, say,
a five percent loss of performance. It won't cause a total engine failure.
However, it is entirely possible for both magnetos to have intermittently failing
coils. One is tired, and the other quits when it gets hot, so the engine
stumbles, terrifying the pilot and passenger. The brief engine stumble rattles
the coil enough for it to correct it's internal short, and the engine smooths
out. Or, one has a spark plug wire problem on one mag, and a failing coil
on the other. The engine runs fine, until it gets good and hot and the coil
associated with the good spark plug wires fails. Terrifying!
Magnetos get very hot in use. Has anyone fashioned dedicated
cooling blast tubes to the magnetos? What does the Sukhoi use, if anything?
We did the auto plug conversion, and immediately were rewarded
with a better running engine. The auto plug conversion will reduce the
weight of your airplane by a couple of pounds, which is also of benefit. The
cost of the kit is nominal.
On Mon, Feb 19, 2018 at 11:26 PM, Walter Lannon <wlannon@shaw.ca>
wrote:
I have a really hard time accepting that a coil
failure in one mag. can cause the other mag to fail.
Have had only one definite coil failure. Occurred
during pre-flight power & mag. check on a 1340 with American Bosch mags.
Went dead as a doornail on that one but other just fine. New coil installed
and back to normal.
Have had two instances of the Huosai wake up call
(2 sec. of silence). Two different aircraft & engines, x-country at around
7500 ft. throttle fully open trying to maintain about 65% power, mixture up to
throttle (max. lean). Maybe too lean!
Since then with a large throttle opening at altitude
I don't go quite as lean and have not (so far) had a recurrence.
Don't know for sure but???????
Walt
-----Original Message----- From: Vic
Sent: Sunday, February 18, 2018 6:33 AM
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Subject: Yak-List: Re: Engine stumble in flight
We had quite some troubles with bad/new coils in
past years and this took some time to find out all sides of the problem. Since
we do a mag run up AFTER most flights after clearing the runway and have min.
70 percent , better 80 percent revs to get a reliable check of ignition system.
I built my own heat chamber and did 5 hour runs
at min. 70 degrees C to test coil and capacitor. Remember, the alu foil capacitor
is wound between primary and secondary windings within the coil - the worst
place to put a capacitor. My guess is that the dielectric material and materials
in the coil wires may age and since the electrical properties of components
will become unsuitable to operate.
Why do we NOT see the same hiccup of the engine
when we do the mag check on the ground , switching off one mag, compared to
a short failure in flight ??? I just cannot figure that out . . .
Vic
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=478080#478080 <http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=478080#478080>
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/p1050315_kkk_138.jpg <http://forums.matronics.com/files/p1050315_kkk_138.jpg>
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Message 27
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| Subject: | Re: Engine stumble in flight |
I have been reading the comments here with keen interest and I would like to thank
you for all your advise.
Having a mag that fires prematurely is extremely uncool! I am just thinking of
Richard's recent picture of a bent rod!
In our case the engine just stopped firing, rather than stopped turning. The pilot
said it was like someone had turned the mags off for a second or two.
I am not sure it is relevant, but I pulled the plugs and one of them had a lot
of oil and crap in it. That might cause one cylinder to produce less power if
it stopped firing, but not the issue we are having.
I have spoken to one of the guys in our electrical bay at work about this. I will
pull the coils out and we can cook them up on the oven and put a meter on
them and see what happens to the resistance.
I understand that those with much more experience on here have said that the bad
mag takes out the other one. I am not doubting they are right, but I am struggling
to wrap some logic around that as the only commonality between the two
mags are the cockpit switches and the ignition harness. Could a dodgy coil in
one mag send a spike down the P lead and arc across the switch to the P lead
of the other mag and disrupt it somehow? Just a thought.
Cheers
Chris
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=478154#478154
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| Subject: | Re: Engine stumble in flight |
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Message 29
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| Subject: | Re: Engine stumble in flight |
Been reading all the stuff here on engine stumble in flight. =C2-I had th
is same thing a number a years ago and turned out to be the ignition harnes
s. =C2-I had even chased coils, points, plugs=C2-etc etc. =C2-The ins
ulation on the ignition wires in the tube breaks down with age. =C2-You s
tart to get cross firing. The only way I found it was using a high tension
tester. =C2-It turns out 3 of the wires were bad. =C2-I yanked off the
old system and went with auto plugs and wires. =C2-Not one problem since.
BTW I put Payne's electronic system and found it worked great. =C2-Better
fuel burn and smoother. =C2-However since I had zeroed time by Barrett,
I haven't hooked up the system as I wanted to get a little time on the engi
ne. =C2-Then I bent two rods! =C2-A longer story there.
Jim "Pappy" Goolsby
-----Original Message-----
From: Nigel Willson <nigel.willson@yakdisplay.com>
Sent: Tue, Feb 20, 2018 8:46 pm
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: Engine stumble in flight
Chris
I can categorically state I have had the exact identical issue.
The coil is to blame and Yes., it defies logic but it causes a complete los
s of power for a very very short time period.
Forget testing the coils. You are wasting your time. They ARE (or st least
one of thrm) IS the issue.
Forget replacing them with original Russian coils off the shelf... it's a c
alendar age issue not an in service hours of use issue.=C2-
Get hold of Jill at M14P and get her replacement coil mod kit and you will
NEVER look back AND have complete peace of mind. We did this and have never
had any issue since.
Trust the advice of this list... bite the bullet and go down this route Rat
her than waste further time and uncessary expense. Jill's solution is very
effective and is not expensive.=C2-
Regards,
Nigel Willson
Flying Instructor & Examiner | Airshow Organiser | Display Pilot
http://yakdisplay. com
Tel. 07809 116676
Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S7 - powered by Three
-------- Original message --------
From: Looigi <cdoburton@gmail.com>
Subject: Yak-List: Re: Engine stumble in flight
I have been reading the comments here with keen interest and I would like t
o thank you for all your advise.
Having a mag that fires prematurely is extremely uncool!=C2- I am just th
inking of Richard's recent picture of a bent rod!
In our case the engine just stopped firing, rather than stopped turning.=C2
- The pilot said it was like someone had turned the mags off for a second
or two.
I am not sure it is relevant, but I pulled the plugs and one of them had a
lot of oil and crap in it.=C2- That might cause one cylinder to produce l
ess power if it stopped firing, but not the issue we are having.
I have spoken to one of the guys in our electrical bay at work about this.
=C2- I will pull the coils out and we can cook them up on the oven and pu
t a meter on them and see what happens to the resistance.
I understand that those with much more experience on here have said that th
e bad mag takes out the other one.=C2- I am not doubting they are right,
but I am struggling to wrap some logic around that as the only commonality
between the two mags are the cockpit switches and the ignition harness.=C2
- Could a dodgy coil in one mag send a spike down the P lead and arc acro
ss the switch to the P lead of the other mag and disrupt it somehow?=C2-
Just a thought.
Cheers
Chris
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=478154#478154
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-=C2-=C2- - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
-=C2- - NEW MATRONICS LIST WIKI -
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-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-
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Message 30
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| Subject: | Re: Engine stumble in flight |
Remember the early radials used a low tension system with external coils. Look
at the cars today, coils at the spark plug. That would be a mess of coils with
18 of them.
Frank N23021
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tom Elliott
Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2018 11:07 AM
Subject: RE: [Non-DoD Source] Re: Yak-List: Re: Engine stumble in flight
I would think you would have to make them into a low tension type first then add
the external coil.
Tom Elliott
CJ-6A NX63727
777 Quartz Ave
PMB 7004
Sandy Valley NV.
89019
Cell 541-297-5497
N13472@AOL.COM
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Walter Lannon
Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2018 10:36 AM
Subject: Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: Yak-List: Re: Engine stumble in flight
Thanks Mark, George and Jan! Now makes perfect sense.
Has anyone looked at the possibility of adapting these mags to accept an
available external coil assy.? Bendix, Slick or?
Walt
-----Original Message-----
From: Bitterlich, Mark G CIV NAVAIR, WD
Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2018 8:31 AM
Subject: RE: [Non-DoD Source] Re: Yak-List: Re: Engine stumble in flight
<mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
There is no question that this is correct. Jan Mevis and I talked about
this quite extensively. Something that further points to this is an
experience I had where the internal gearing in the mag housing went bad
causing the right mag to come out of time, in a rather extreme way. The
engine just stopped running. Cold stone dead. The guy in formation with me thought
that he saw flames coming out the exhaust, but was not sure, as
there was also lots of smoke. In any case, I switched to left only mag,
and the engine immediately started running again, perfectly in fact. When I
went to both or right mag, the engine just stopped dead in its tracks. So
it is a proven fact that with the mag firing the plugs at the wrong time, it can
actually stop the engine from running.
Mark
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of George Coy
Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2018 11:18 AM
Subject: [Non-DoD Source] Re: Yak-List: Re: Engine stumble in flight
I believe that the coil failure actually fires the spark plug prematurely burning
the fuel charge while its in the intake position that causes a small burn back
through the intake system consuming the fuel charge and thats why the engine
quits because it has no fuel for a second or two.
George Coy
Sent from my iPhone
On Feb 20, 2018, at 9:43 AM, Ernest Martinez <erniel29@gmail.com> wrote:
Wrong
On Tue, Feb 20, 2018 at 5:28 AM, Richard Goode <Richard.goode@russianaeros.com>
wrote:
I'm sorry, but that is not correct! But over the last 25 years,
I have experienced coil problems on at least as many aircraft. Logic will tell
you that a coil failure in one magneto will leave the engine running perfectly
well on the other magneto with a slight power loss. The practicality is different,
and the engine will stop totally if the coil failure is serious. Of course
it will then restart, but enough to give the pilot, and indeed any passengers,
a fright.
Our own view is that, as has been said, the magneto gets very hot
in operation. And of course the coil is inside, and worse still, the capacitor
is inside the coil, which is intrinsically getting hot with the current going
through the coil. In order to partially overcome this problem, we have developed
coils with an external capacitor which will run rather cooler, and have
had very satisfactory results with them. The capacitor is small; bonded to the
outside of the coil and makes no difference to installation of the coil inside
the magneto.
Richard Goode
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
<mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com>
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
<mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com> ] On Behalf Of John B
Sent: 20 February 2018 07:13
To: Yak-List Digest Server <yak-list@matronics.com>
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: Engine stumble in flight
A coil failure in a magneto will feel the same as simply grounding
the mag, or turning the mag "off." In other words, a coil failure with both
mags "on" or "not grounded," will feel like nothing, other than, say, a five
percent loss of performance. It won't cause a total engine failure. However,
it is entirely possible for both magnetos to have intermittently failing coils.
One is tired, and the other quits when it gets hot, so the engine stumbles,
terrifying the pilot and passenger. The brief engine stumble rattles the
coil enough for it to correct it's internal short, and the engine smooths out.
Or, one has a spark plug wire problem on one mag, and a failing coil on the
other. The engine runs fine, until it gets good and hot and the coil associated
with the good spark plug wires fails. Terrifying!
Magnetos get very hot in use. Has anyone fashioned dedicated cooling
blast tubes to the magnetos? What does the Sukhoi use, if anything?
We did the auto plug conversion, and immediately were rewarded
with a better running engine. The auto plug conversion will reduce the weight
of your airplane by a couple of pounds, which is also of benefit.
The cost of the kit is nominal.
On Mon, Feb 19, 2018 at 11:26 PM, Walter Lannon <wlannon@shaw.ca>
wrote:
<wlannon@shaw.ca>
I have a really hard time accepting that a coil failure
in one mag. can cause the other mag to fail.
Have had only one definite coil failure. Occurred
during pre-flight power & mag. check on a 1340 with American Bosch mags.
Went dead as a doornail on that one but other just fine. New coil installed and
back to normal.
Have had two instances of the Huosai wake up call (2 sec.
of silence). Two different aircraft & engines, x-country at around
7500 ft. throttle fully open trying to maintain about 65% power, mixture up to
throttle (max. lean). Maybe too lean!
Since then with a large throttle opening at altitude I
don't go quite as lean and have not (so far) had a recurrence.
Don't know for sure but???????
Walt
-----Original Message----- From: Vic
Sent: Sunday, February 18, 2018 6:33 AM
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Subject: Yak-List: Re: Engine stumble in flight
<vicmolnar@aol.com>
We had quite some troubles with bad/new coils in past years
and this took some time to find out all sides of the problem.
Since we do a mag run up AFTER most flights after clearing the runway and have
min. 70 percent , better 80 percent revs to get a reliable check of ignition system.
I built my own heat chamber and did 5 hour runs at min.
70 degrees C to test coil and capacitor. Remember, the alu foil capacitor is
wound between primary and secondary windings within the coil - the worst place
to put a capacitor. My guess is that the dielectric material and materials in
the coil wires may age and since the electrical properties of components will
become unsuitable to operate.
Why do we NOT see the same hiccup of the engine when
we do the mag check on the ground , switching off one mag, compared to a short
failure in flight ??? I just cannot figure that out . . .
Vic
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=478080#478080
<http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=478080#478080>
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/p1050315_kkk_138.jpg
<http://forums.matronics.com/files/p1050315_kkk_138.jpg>
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Message 31
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| Subject: | Re: Engine stumble in flight |
Very true Frank but as far as I know was limited to the large radials in
high altitude, long range, aircraft.
The P&W R2800 had 36 coils and the R4360 had 56!
Did not know it was used in cars now. Probably more expensive ones than
mine.
Walt
-----Original Message-----
From: pfstelwagon@earthlink.net
Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2018 8:19 PM
Subject: RE: [Non-DoD Source] Re: Yak-List: Re: Engine stumble in flight
Remember the early radials used a low tension system with external coils.
Look at the cars today, coils at the spark plug. That would be a mess of
coils with 18 of them.
Frank N23021
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tom Elliott
Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2018 11:07 AM
Subject: RE: [Non-DoD Source] Re: Yak-List: Re: Engine stumble in flight
I would think you would have to make them into a low tension type first then
add the external coil.
Tom Elliott
CJ-6A NX63727
777 Quartz Ave
PMB 7004
Sandy Valley NV.
89019
Cell 541-297-5497
N13472@AOL.COM
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Walter Lannon
Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2018 10:36 AM
Subject: Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: Yak-List: Re: Engine stumble in flight
Thanks Mark, George and Jan! Now makes perfect sense.
Has anyone looked at the possibility of adapting these mags to accept an
available external coil assy.? Bendix, Slick or?
Walt
-----Original Message-----
From: Bitterlich, Mark G CIV NAVAIR, WD
Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2018 8:31 AM
Subject: RE: [Non-DoD Source] Re: Yak-List: Re: Engine stumble in flight
<mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
There is no question that this is correct. Jan Mevis and I talked about
this quite extensively. Something that further points to this is an
experience I had where the internal gearing in the mag housing went bad
causing the right mag to come out of time, in a rather extreme way. The
engine just stopped running. Cold stone dead. The guy in formation with me
thought that he saw flames coming out the exhaust, but was not sure, as
there was also lots of smoke. In any case, I switched to left only mag,
and the engine immediately started running again, perfectly in fact. When I
went to both or right mag, the engine just stopped dead in its tracks. So
it is a proven fact that with the mag firing the plugs at the wrong time, it
can actually stop the engine from running.
Mark
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of George Coy
Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2018 11:18 AM
Subject: [Non-DoD Source] Re: Yak-List: Re: Engine stumble in flight
I believe that the coil failure actually fires the spark plug prematurely
burning the fuel charge while its in the intake position that causes a
small burn back through the intake system consuming the fuel charge and thats
why the engine quits because it has no fuel for a second or two.
George Coy
Sent from my iPhone
On Feb 20, 2018, at 9:43 AM, Ernest Martinez <erniel29@gmail.com> wrote:
Wrong
On Tue, Feb 20, 2018 at 5:28 AM, Richard Goode
<Richard.goode@russianaeros.com> wrote:
I'm sorry, but that is not correct! But over the last 25
years, I have experienced coil problems on at least as many aircraft. Logic
will tell you that a coil failure in one magneto will leave the engine
running perfectly well on the other magneto with a slight power loss. The
practicality is different, and the engine will stop totally if the coil
failure is serious. Of course it will then restart, but enough to give the
pilot, and indeed any passengers, a fright.
Our own view is that, as has been said, the magneto gets
very hot in operation. And of course the coil is inside, and worse still,
the capacitor is inside the coil, which is intrinsically getting hot with
the current going through the coil. In order to partially overcome this
problem, we have developed coils with an external capacitor which will run
rather cooler, and have had very satisfactory results with them. The
capacitor is small; bonded to the outside of the coil and makes no
difference to installation of the coil inside the magneto.
Richard Goode
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
<mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com>
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
<mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com> ] On Behalf Of John B
Sent: 20 February 2018 07:13
To: Yak-List Digest Server <yak-list@matronics.com>
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: Engine stumble in flight
A coil failure in a magneto will feel the same as simply
grounding the mag, or turning the mag "off." In other words, a coil failure
with both mags "on" or "not grounded," will feel like nothing, other than,
say, a five percent loss of performance. It won't cause a total engine
failure. However, it is entirely possible for both magnetos to have
intermittently failing coils. One is tired, and the other quits when it
gets hot, so the engine stumbles, terrifying the pilot and passenger. The
brief engine stumble rattles the coil enough for it to correct it's internal
short, and the engine smooths out. Or, one has a spark plug wire problem on
one mag, and a failing coil on the other. The engine runs fine, until it
gets good and hot and the coil associated with the good spark plug wires
fails. Terrifying!
Magnetos get very hot in use. Has anyone fashioned
dedicated cooling blast tubes to the magnetos? What does the Sukhoi use, if
anything?
We did the auto plug conversion, and immediately were
rewarded with a better running engine. The auto plug conversion will reduce
the weight of your airplane by a couple of pounds, which is also of benefit.
The cost of the kit is nominal.
On Mon, Feb 19, 2018 at 11:26 PM, Walter Lannon
<wlannon@shaw.ca> wrote:
<wlannon@shaw.ca>
I have a really hard time accepting that a coil
failure in one mag. can cause the other mag to fail.
Have had only one definite coil failure. Occurred
during pre-flight power & mag. check on a 1340 with American Bosch mags.
Went dead as a doornail on that one but other just fine. New coil installed
and back to normal.
Have had two instances of the Huosai wake up call (2
sec. of silence). Two different aircraft & engines, x-country at around
7500 ft. throttle fully open trying to maintain about 65% power, mixture up
to throttle (max. lean). Maybe too lean!
Since then with a large throttle opening at altitude
I don't go quite as lean and have not (so far) had a recurrence.
Don't know for sure but???????
Walt
-----Original Message----- From: Vic
Sent: Sunday, February 18, 2018 6:33 AM
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Subject: Yak-List: Re: Engine stumble in flight
<vicmolnar@aol.com>
We had quite some troubles with bad/new coils in
past years and this took some time to find out all sides of the problem.
Since we do a mag run up AFTER most flights after clearing the runway and
have min. 70 percent , better 80 percent revs to get a reliable check of
ignition system.
I built my own heat chamber and did 5 hour runs at
min. 70 degrees C to test coil and capacitor. Remember, the alu foil
capacitor is wound between primary and secondary windings within the coil -
the worst place to put a capacitor. My guess is that the dielectric material
and materials in the coil wires may age and since the electrical properties
of components will become unsuitable to operate.
Why do we NOT see the same hiccup of the engine
when we do the mag check on the ground , switching off one mag, compared to
a short failure in flight ??? I just cannot figure that out . . .
Vic
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=478080#478080
<http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=478080#478080>
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/p1050315_kkk_138.jpg
<http://forums.matronics.com/files/p1050315_kkk_138.jpg>
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Message 32
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| Subject: | Re: Engine stumble in flight |
Walt, I had an A&P instructor that discussed the 4360 pointing out that it was
a nightmare to work on. Hunting for a cold cylinder was hard as by the time you
got the baffling off to the point where you could get to the cylinders they
were all cold. Hard to think about 56 coils and plugs, tough to find a bad one!
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Walter Lannon
Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2018 9:18 PM
Subject: Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: Yak-List: Re: Engine stumble in flight
Very true Frank but as far as I know was limited to the large radials in high altitude,
long range, aircraft.
The P&W R2800 had 36 coils and the R4360 had 56!
Did not know it was used in cars now. Probably more expensive ones than mine.
Walt
-----Original Message-----
From: pfstelwagon@earthlink.net
Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2018 8:19 PM
Subject: RE: [Non-DoD Source] Re: Yak-List: Re: Engine stumble in flight
Remember the early radials used a low tension system with external coils.
Look at the cars today, coils at the spark plug. That would be a mess of coils
with 18 of them.
Frank N23021
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tom Elliott
Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2018 11:07 AM
Subject: RE: [Non-DoD Source] Re: Yak-List: Re: Engine stumble in flight
I would think you would have to make them into a low tension type first then add
the external coil.
Tom Elliott
CJ-6A NX63727
777 Quartz Ave
PMB 7004
Sandy Valley NV.
89019
Cell 541-297-5497
N13472@AOL.COM
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Walter Lannon
Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2018 10:36 AM
Subject: Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: Yak-List: Re: Engine stumble in flight
Thanks Mark, George and Jan! Now makes perfect sense.
Has anyone looked at the possibility of adapting these mags to accept an
available external coil assy.? Bendix, Slick or?
Walt
-----Original Message-----
From: Bitterlich, Mark G CIV NAVAIR, WD
Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2018 8:31 AM
Subject: RE: [Non-DoD Source] Re: Yak-List: Re: Engine stumble in flight
<mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
There is no question that this is correct. Jan Mevis and I talked about
this quite extensively. Something that further points to this is an
experience I had where the internal gearing in the mag housing went bad
causing the right mag to come out of time, in a rather extreme way. The
engine just stopped running. Cold stone dead. The guy in formation with me
thought that he saw flames coming out the exhaust, but was not sure, as
there was also lots of smoke. In any case, I switched to left only mag,
and the engine immediately started running again, perfectly in fact. When I
went to both or right mag, the engine just stopped dead in its tracks. So
it is a proven fact that with the mag firing the plugs at the wrong time, it
can actually stop the engine from running.
Mark
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of George Coy
Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2018 11:18 AM
Subject: [Non-DoD Source] Re: Yak-List: Re: Engine stumble in flight
I believe that the coil failure actually fires the spark plug prematurely
burning the fuel charge while its in the intake position that causes a
small burn back through the intake system consuming the fuel charge and thats
why the engine quits because it has no fuel for a second or two.
George Coy
Sent from my iPhone
On Feb 20, 2018, at 9:43 AM, Ernest Martinez <erniel29@gmail.com> wrote:
Wrong
On Tue, Feb 20, 2018 at 5:28 AM, Richard Goode
<Richard.goode@russianaeros.com> wrote:
I'm sorry, but that is not correct! But over the last 25
years, I have experienced coil problems on at least as many aircraft. Logic
will tell you that a coil failure in one magneto will leave the engine
running perfectly well on the other magneto with a slight power loss. The
practicality is different, and the engine will stop totally if the coil
failure is serious. Of course it will then restart, but enough to give the
pilot, and indeed any passengers, a fright.
Our own view is that, as has been said, the magneto gets
very hot in operation. And of course the coil is inside, and worse still,
the capacitor is inside the coil, which is intrinsically getting hot with
the current going through the coil. In order to partially overcome this
problem, we have developed coils with an external capacitor which will run
rather cooler, and have had very satisfactory results with them. The
capacitor is small; bonded to the outside of the coil and makes no
difference to installation of the coil inside the magneto.
Richard Goode
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
<mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com>
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
<mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com> ] On Behalf Of John B
Sent: 20 February 2018 07:13
To: Yak-List Digest Server <yak-list@matronics.com>
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: Engine stumble in flight
A coil failure in a magneto will feel the same as simply
grounding the mag, or turning the mag "off." In other words, a coil failure
with both mags "on" or "not grounded," will feel like nothing, other than,
say, a five percent loss of performance. It won't cause a total engine
failure. However, it is entirely possible for both magnetos to have
intermittently failing coils. One is tired, and the other quits when it
gets hot, so the engine stumbles, terrifying the pilot and passenger. The
brief engine stumble rattles the coil enough for it to correct it's internal
short, and the engine smooths out. Or, one has a spark plug wire problem on
one mag, and a failing coil on the other. The engine runs fine, until it
gets good and hot and the coil associated with the good spark plug wires
fails. Terrifying!
Magnetos get very hot in use. Has anyone fashioned
dedicated cooling blast tubes to the magnetos? What does the Sukhoi use, if
anything?
We did the auto plug conversion, and immediately were
rewarded with a better running engine. The auto plug conversion will reduce
the weight of your airplane by a couple of pounds, which is also of benefit.
The cost of the kit is nominal.
On Mon, Feb 19, 2018 at 11:26 PM, Walter Lannon
<wlannon@shaw.ca> wrote:
<wlannon@shaw.ca>
I have a really hard time accepting that a coil
failure in one mag. can cause the other mag to fail.
Have had only one definite coil failure. Occurred
during pre-flight power & mag. check on a 1340 with American Bosch mags.
Went dead as a doornail on that one but other just fine. New coil installed
and back to normal.
Have had two instances of the Huosai wake up call (2
sec. of silence). Two different aircraft & engines, x-country at around
7500 ft. throttle fully open trying to maintain about 65% power, mixture up
to throttle (max. lean). Maybe too lean!
Since then with a large throttle opening at altitude
I don't go quite as lean and have not (so far) had a recurrence.
Don't know for sure but???????
Walt
-----Original Message----- From: Vic
Sent: Sunday, February 18, 2018 6:33 AM
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Subject: Yak-List: Re: Engine stumble in flight
<vicmolnar@aol.com>
We had quite some troubles with bad/new coils in
past years and this took some time to find out all sides of the problem.
Since we do a mag run up AFTER most flights after clearing the runway and
have min. 70 percent , better 80 percent revs to get a reliable check of
ignition system.
I built my own heat chamber and did 5 hour runs at
min. 70 degrees C to test coil and capacitor. Remember, the alu foil
capacitor is wound between primary and secondary windings within the coil -
the worst place to put a capacitor. My guess is that the dielectric material
and materials in the coil wires may age and since the electrical properties
of components will become unsuitable to operate.
Why do we NOT see the same hiccup of the engine
when we do the mag check on the ground , switching off one mag, compared to
a short failure in flight ??? I just cannot figure that out . . .
Vic
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