Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 01:52 AM - M 14 R (Richard Goode)
2. 02:26 AM - Re: M 14 R (Richard Hess)
3. 03:03 AM - Re: M 14 R (Richard Goode)
4. 01:47 PM - Re: Air Bottles (Looigi)
5. 06:18 PM - Re: M 14 R (todd militarian)
6. 06:37 PM - Re: M 14 R (CSLA Museum)
Message 1
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M 14 R
Those of you who are interested in the technicalities of the Vedenyeev might
want to know more about this rather exotic engine which we produced in small
numbers some years ago and also that we are planning to put a significantly
revised version of it into future production.
At that stage I was working closely with Vedenyeev (also called OKBM) in
Voronezh, Russia, who were the designers of the M 14 P, while, in typical
Russian fashion, serial production of the engines was at the Voronezh
Mechanical Plant, a big production facility, where the Buran space shuttle
and various helicopters were manufactured. I had assisted in the funding for
the development of the M 14 PF engine, which of course has been a great
success over the years. We could see a requirement for yet more power,
aiming at approaching 450 hp. Also, at that stage Sukhoi were planning a new
military trainer to succeed the Yak 52, which was to be retractable; of
all-composite construction, based to a certain extent on the Sukhoi 29, and
they needed a 450 hp engine, so we could see an obvious market. However the
proposed aircraft, the Sukhoi 49, was not favoured by the military, on the
basis of the vulnerability to accidental damage of an all-composite aircraft
and this, coupled with budgetary problems meant that the programme was
cancelled.
However, Anatoli Bakanov, the chief designer of Vedenyeev, clearly knew the
engine well and began researching possibilities for extracting additional
power, and he felt that an obvious area to develop was the supercharger
design. If you have ever looked at the impeller of an M 14 P supercharger
you will see that it is relatively crude with single plane curvature of the
vanes, and he felt that a more sophisticated design would be a huge
improvement. Through their connections, they approached Lyulka who still
make the engines for the big Sukhoi fighters, and they designed a new
impeller and associated diffuser. Unfortunately it was a little deeper than
the standard impeller, and therefore needed quite major modifications to the
supercharger housing.
But the new engine was soon produced, and certainly lived up to the expected
power output, and we sold a few of them, although it became clear that it
was not sufficiently developed with high oil consumption; fairly high
cylinder head temperatures. However, it was enough for Ramon Alonso to win
the world championship in 2007, so clearly not much to complain about!
More recently a customer who had installed an M 14 R in his Yak 50 felt that
the oil consumption had become unacceptable and gave it to our partner,
Aerometal in Hungary, to completely overhaul. We realised quite quickly that
they were fundamental problems with the engine, even although it had been
performing well. We realised that the gears and shafts turning the impeller
were of standard dimensions, and therefore not really capable of
transmitting the significantly increased loading; there was no proper
lubrication for the main impeller bearing - simply relying on "splash"; very
obvious problems with the breather system which meant that the engine was
pumping out oil, which the owner had previously noticed.
We modified these areas, and spent some time testing on the Aerometal
dynamometer, which is accurate to less than 1 hp, and in the end sorted out
these various problems and also achieved the highest output we have ever
heard of on any of these engines with a genuine and corrected figure of 465
hp at 103%. With a completely new engine breather system, and new SPC
pistons oil consumption has been dramatically reduced.
The success of this testing has led us to believe that there is a market to
make new engines, either as complete engines, or possibly with a complete
"pyramid" (i.e. the whole rear of the engine behind the crankcase) to
convert existing engines. Clearly they would need to be in very good
condition to accept the significant increases in power. I had retained all
the original drawings and paperwork from Vedenyeev, and, as soon as we have
time, we will begin to make new, and improved components using better
materials.
I'm attaching photographs which show the standard and "Lyulka" impellers -
the differences are significant!
This is a long-term project, but if anyone is interested, please let us
know.
Richard Goode Aerobatics
Rhodds Farm
Lyonshall
Herefordshire
HR5 3LW
United Kingdom
Tel: +44 (0) 1544 340120
Fax: +44 (0) 1544 340129
www.russianaeros.com
Message 2
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Rich
Very interesting. Any thoughts on the expected TBO of the improved design an
d what did the oil consumption end up being?
Richard Hess
C 404-964-4885
> On May 25, 2018, at 4:51 AM, Richard Goode <richard.goode@russianaeros.com
> wrote:
>
> M 14 R
>
> Those of you who are interested in the technicalities of the Vedenyeev mig
ht want to know more about this rather exotic engine which we produced in sm
all numbers some years ago and also that we are planning to put a significan
tly revised version of it into future production.
>
> At that stage I was working closely with Vedenyeev (also called OKBM) in V
oronezh, Russia, who were the designers of the M 14 P, while, in typical Rus
sian fashion, serial production of the engines was at the Voronezh Mechanica
l Plant, a big production facility, where the Buran space shuttle and variou
s helicopters were manufactured. I had assisted in the funding for the devel
opment of the M 14 PF engine, which of course has been a great success over t
he years. We could see a requirement for yet more power, aiming at approachi
ng 450 hp. Also, at that stage Sukhoi were planning a new military trainer t
o succeed the Yak 52, which was to be retractable; of all-composite construc
tion, based to a certain extent on the Sukhoi 29, and they needed a 450 hp e
ngine, so we could see an obvious market. However the proposed aircraft, the
Sukhoi 49, was not favoured by the military, on the basis of the vulnerabil
ity to accidental damage of an all-composite aircraft and this, coupled with
budgetary problems meant that the programme was cancelled.
>
> However, Anatoli Bakanov, the chief designer of Vedenyeev, clearly knew th
e engine well and began researching possibilities for extracting additional p
ower, and he felt that an obvious area to develop was the supercharger desig
n. If you have ever looked at the impeller of an M 14 P supercharger you wil
l see that it is relatively crude with single plane curvature of the vanes, a
nd he felt that a more sophisticated design would be a huge improvement. Thr
ough their connections, they approached Lyulka who still make the engines fo
r the big Sukhoi fighters, and they designed a new impeller and associated d
iffuser. Unfortunately it was a little deeper than the standard impeller, an
d therefore needed quite major modifications to the supercharger housing.
>
> But the new engine was soon produced, and certainly lived up to the expect
ed power output, and we sold a few of them, although it became clear that it
was not sufficiently developed with high oil consumption; fairly high cylin
der head temperatures. However, it was enough for Ramon Alonso to win the wo
rld championship in 2007, so clearly not much to complain about!
>
> More recently a customer who had installed an M 14 R in his Yak 50 felt th
at the oil consumption had become unacceptable and gave it to our partner, A
erometal in Hungary, to completely overhaul. We realised quite quickly that t
hey were fundamental problems with the engine, even although it had been per
forming well. We realised that the gears and shafts turning the impeller wer
e of standard dimensions, and therefore not really capable of transmitting t
he significantly increased loading; there was no proper lubrication for the m
ain impeller bearing =93 simply relying on "splash"; very obvious prob
lems with the breather system which meant that the engine was pumping out oi
l, which the owner had previously noticed.
>
> We modified these areas, and spent some time testing on the Aerometal dyna
mometer, which is accurate to less than 1 hp, and in the end sorted out thes
e various problems and also achieved the highest output we have ever heard o
f on any of these engines with a genuine and corrected figure of 465 hp at 1
03%. With a completely new engine breather system, and new SPC pistons oil c
onsumption has been dramatically reduced.
>
> The success of this testing has led us to believe that there is a market t
o make new engines, either as complete engines, or possibly with a complete "
pyramid" (i.e. the whole rear of the engine behind the crankcase) to convert
existing engines. Clearly they would need to be in very good condition to a
ccept the significant increases in power. I had retained all the original dr
awings and paperwork from Vedenyeev, and, as soon as we have time, we will b
egin to make new, and improved components using better materials.
>
> I'm attaching photographs which show the standard and "Lyulka" impellers
=93 the differences are significant!
>
> <image001.jpg>
>
> This is a long-term project, but if anyone is interested, please let us kn
ow.
>
>
> Richard Goode Aerobatics
> Rhodds Farm
> Lyonshall
> Herefordshire
> HR5 3LW
> United Kingdom
>
> Tel: +44 (0) 1544 340120
> Fax: +44 (0) 1544 340129
> www.russianaeros.com
>
> <Impellers.jpg>
Message 3
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Further to the information below, we have attached a photo of the finished M
14 R and another photo of it during test.
M 14 R
Those of you who are interested in the technicalities of the Vedenyeev might
want to know more about this rather exotic engine which we produced in small
numbers some years ago and also that we are planning to put a significantly
revised version of it into future production.
At that stage I was working closely with Vedenyeev (also called OKBM) in
Voronezh, Russia, who were the designers of the M 14 P, while, in typical
Russian fashion, serial production of the engines was at the Voronezh
Mechanical Plant, a big production facility, where the Buran space shuttle
and various helicopters were manufactured. I had assisted in the funding for
the development of the M 14 PF engine, which of course has been a great
success over the years. We could see a requirement for yet more power,
aiming at approaching 450 hp. Also, at that stage Sukhoi were planning a new
military trainer to succeed the Yak 52, which was to be retractable; of
all-composite construction, based to a certain extent on the Sukhoi 29, and
they needed a 450 hp engine, so we could see an obvious market. However the
proposed aircraft, the Sukhoi 49, was not favoured by the military, on the
basis of the vulnerability to accidental damage of an all-composite aircraft
and this, coupled with budgetary problems meant that the programme was
cancelled.
However, Anatoli Bakanov, the chief designer of Vedenyeev, clearly knew the
engine well and began researching possibilities for extracting additional
power, and he felt that an obvious area to develop was the supercharger
design. If you have ever looked at the impeller of an M 14 P supercharger
you will see that it is relatively crude with single plane curvature of the
vanes, and he felt that a more sophisticated design would be a huge
improvement. Through their connections, they approached Lyulka who still
make the engines for the big Sukhoi fighters, and they designed a new
impeller and associated diffuser. Unfortunately it was a little deeper than
the standard impeller, and therefore needed quite major modifications to the
supercharger housing.
But the new engine was soon produced, and certainly lived up to the expected
power output, and we sold a few of them, although it became clear that it
was not sufficiently developed with high oil consumption; fairly high
cylinder head temperatures. However, it was enough for Ramon Alonso to win
the world championship in 2007, so clearly not much to complain about!
More recently a customer who had installed an M 14 R in his Yak 50 felt that
the oil consumption had become unacceptable and gave it to our partner,
Aerometal in Hungary, to completely overhaul. We realised quite quickly that
they were fundamental problems with the engine, even although it had been
performing well. We realised that the gears and shafts turning the impeller
were of standard dimensions, and therefore not really capable of
transmitting the significantly increased loading; there was no proper
lubrication for the main impeller bearing - simply relying on "splash"; very
obvious problems with the breather system which meant that the engine was
pumping out oil, which the owner had previously noticed.
We modified these areas, and spent some time testing on the Aerometal
dynamometer, which is accurate to less than 1 hp, and in the end sorted out
these various problems and also achieved the highest output we have ever
heard of on any of these engines with a genuine and corrected figure of 465
hp at 103%. With a completely new engine breather system, and new SPC
pistons oil consumption has been dramatically reduced.
The success of this testing has led us to believe that there is a market to
make new engines, either as complete engines, or possibly with a complete
"pyramid" (i.e. the whole rear of the engine behind the crankcase) to
convert existing engines. Clearly they would need to be in very good
condition to accept the significant increases in power. I had retained all
the original drawings and paperwork from Vedenyeev, and, as soon as we have
time, we will begin to make new, and improved components using better
materials.
I'm attaching photographs which show the standard and "Lyulka" impellers -
the differences are significant!
This is a long-term project, but if anyone is interested, please let us
know.
Richard Goode Aerobatics
Rhodds Farm
Lyonshall
Herefordshire
HR5 3LW
United Kingdom
Tel: +44 (0) 1544 340120
Fax: +44 (0) 1544 340129
www.russianaeros.com <http://www.russianaeros.com>
Message 4
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Steve Geard wrote:
> It will depend where you live and who writes the rules and regulations.
> Here in New Zealand they require the bottle is removed and pressure tested every
5 years and borescope inspected every year or 100 hours.
> If you have an onboard pump its wise given you are pumping cloud into your air
system :-/ I dont have an on board pump on my 55m, I use dry dive air from
a dive bottle, but they still require the inspections .
Hi All,
The New Zealand CAA Airworthiness Directive also requires us to remove the tanks
and drain the water out every 50 hours or annually. I usually only get a teaspoon
or so of oily gunk out of the main tank and the emergency tank is always
clean.
I think the Russians put a bit of oil in the tanks to help prevent corrosion too.
Has anyone found a western alternative to use?
Chris
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=480398#480398
Message 5
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Richard,
Thank you very much for the information, amazing work. I am flying my
second Yak 52 and was a bit nonplussed to hear that engines might be in
short supply. I will talk with Vladimir about this engine. Do you think
that the time horizon would be 2 to 3 years?
Best Regards, Todd
On Fri, May 25, 2018 at 3:01 AM, Richard Goode <
richard.goode@russianaeros.com> wrote:
> Further to the information below, we have attached a photo of the finishe
d
> M 14 R and another photo of it during test.
>
>
> *M 14 R*
>
>
> Those of you who are interested in the technicalities of the Vedenyeev
> might want to know more about this rather exotic engine which we produced
> in small numbers some years ago and also that we are planning to put a
> significantly revised version of it into future production.
>
>
> At that stage I was working closely with Vedenyeev (also called OKBM) in
> Voronezh, Russia, who were the designers of the M 14 P, while, in typical
> Russian fashion, serial production of the engines was at the Voronezh
> Mechanical Plant, a big production facility, where the Buran space shuttl
e
> and various helicopters were manufactured. I had assisted in the funding
> for the development of the M 14 PF engine, which of course has been a gre
at
> success over the years. We could see a requirement for yet more power,
> aiming at approaching 450 hp. Also, at that stage Sukhoi were planning a
> new military trainer to succeed the Yak 52, which was to be retractable;
of
> all-composite construction, based to a certain extent on the Sukhoi 29, a
nd
> they needed a 450 hp engine, so we could see an obvious market. However t
he
> proposed aircraft, the Sukhoi 49, was not favoured by the military, on th
e
> basis of the vulnerability to accidental damage of an all-composite
> aircraft and this, coupled with budgetary problems meant that the program
me
> was cancelled.
>
>
> However, Anatoli Bakanov, the chief designer of Vedenyeev, clearly knew
> the engine well and began researching possibilities for extracting
> additional power, and he felt that an obvious area to develop was the
> supercharger design. If you have ever looked at the impeller of an M 14 P
> supercharger you will see that it is relatively crude with single plane
> curvature of the vanes, and he felt that a more sophisticated design woul
d
> be a huge improvement. Through their connections, they approached Lyulka
> who still make the engines for the big Sukhoi fighters, and they designed
a
> new impeller and associated diffuser. Unfortunately it was a little deepe
r
> than the standard impeller, and therefore needed quite major modification
s
> to the supercharger housing.
>
>
> But the new engine was soon produced, and certainly lived up to the
> expected power output, and we sold a few of them, although it became clea
r
> that it was not sufficiently developed with high oil consumption; fairly
> high cylinder head temperatures. However, it was enough for Ramon Alonso
to
> win the world championship in 2007, so clearly not much to complain about
!
>
>
> More recently a customer who had installed an M 14 R in his Yak 50 felt
> that the oil consumption had become unacceptable and gave it to our
> partner, Aerometal in Hungary, to completely overhaul. We realised quite
> quickly that they were fundamental problems with the engine, even althoug
h
> it had been performing well. We realised that the gears and shafts turnin
g
> the impeller were of standard dimensions, and therefore not really capabl
e
> of transmitting the significantly increased loading; there was no proper
> lubrication for the main impeller bearing =93 simply relying on "sp
lash";
> very obvious problems with the breather system which meant that the engin
e
> was pumping out oil, which the owner had previously noticed.
>
>
> We modified these areas, and spent some time testing on the Aerometal
> dynamometer, which is accurate to less than 1 hp, and in the end sorted o
ut
> these various problems and also achieved the highest output we have ever
> heard of on any of these engines with a genuine and corrected figure of 4
65
> hp at 103%. With a completely new engine breather system, and new SPC
> pistons oil consumption has been dramatically reduced.
>
>
> The success of this testing has led us to believe that there is a market
> to make new engines, either as complete engines, or possibly with a
> complete "pyramid" (i.e. the whole rear of the engine behind the crankcas
e)
> to convert existing engines. Clearly they would need to be in very good
> condition to accept the significant increases in power. I had retained al
l
> the original drawings and paperwork from Vedenyeev, and, as soon as we ha
ve
> time, we will begin to make new, and improved components using better
> materials.
>
>
> I'm attaching photographs which show the standard and "Lyulka" impellers
=93
> the differences are significant!
>
>
> This is a long-term project, but if anyone is interested, please let us
> know.
>
>
> Richard Goode Aerobatics
>
> Rhodds Farm
>
> Lyonshall
>
> Herefordshire
>
> HR5 3LW
>
> United Kingdom
>
>
> Tel: +44 (0) 1544 340120
>
> Fax: +44 (0) 1544 340129
>
> www.russianaeros.com
>
>
Message 6
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Would like a short discussion about the M14B engine. This was built for
An14.. Ive heard of being used in Yak 52. We have a Yak at our airport
that might be such a candidate. Is a standard m14p front case mated to the
B engine? What serial numbers would signify a B engine. ? We could use
some help. Thanks
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