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1. 01:38 PM - Nanchang Hissy Fit Flap (Byron Fox)
2. 02:07 PM - Re: Nanchang Hissy Fit Flap (Jon Boede)
3. 02:23 PM - Re: Nanchang Hissy Fit Flap (Byron Fox)
4. 02:48 PM - Re: Nanchang Hissy Fit Flap (Jon Boede)
5. 03:49 PM - Re: Nanchang Hissy Fit Flap (Byron Fox)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Nanchang Hissy Fit Flap |
When last reported, I left my hangar baffled. Having replaced my old flap
valve with the three-month old one, the result was unchanged. The flap
would go down, but not come up.
The following morning when I arrived at the hangar, I knew air pressure in
the plane's plumbing would be zero. So I decided to see what would happen,
if first, I raised the flap handle, and then turned on the main air.
Instantly, up came the flap!
It was clear, therefore, that there was no blockage in the upside air
lines. The same was true of the downside air lines. What then was impeding
the flap from rising when there was air pressure in the system?
So, I started playing with the flap handle. Raising the handle straight
through the neutral position, as I normally would, I'd hear a quick "Psst"
out of the flap valve as I went through neutral, but the flap would not
come up.
Then raising the flap handle more slowly and pausing in the neutral
position, the downside pressure in the actuator vented and the flap came up
when the handle was moved to the up position. So, it's a work-around, but
it's not right.
It was Saturday, so my neighbor two hangars away had his Nanchang on the
ramp. With his permission, I turned his air on and lowered the flap handle
in the front cockpit with the handle in back in the neutral position. Down,
of course, went the flap. I then lifted the front flap handle, and the
instant I went through the neutral position the downside pressure started
to vent and continued to vent and then pressurize as I smoothly went to the
up position. And, of course, up came the flap.
So it would appear that my new flap valve is not venting properly. *But
wait!* The same thing happened before I swapped my old flap valve for the
new one. The flap would go down, but not up. By capping-off all three air
lines to the backseat flap valve had an effect I don't understand?
What do you think?
--
... Blitz
Byron M. Fox
80 Milland Drive
Mill Valley, CA 94941
415-307-2405
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Nanchang Hissy Fit Flap |
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Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Nanchang Hissy Fit Flap |
Sorry if I=99ve failed to be to clear, Jon.
By =9Cflap valve=9D I mean the valve to which the flap handle i
s attached.
My understanding heretofore, was that the sole function of the shuttle, or d
iverter valves, in the backseat was to permit emergency air into the flap sy
stem if required. That would be how I=99ve interpreted the pneumatic s
ystem diagram and Craig Payne=99s air system guide.
> On Jul 16, 2018, at 2:07 PM, Jon Boede <jonboede@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> By =9Cflap valve=9D do you mean the actuator handle or the shu
ttle valve that lets the back seat override the front? Are you sure your sys
tem isn=99t convinced that the instructor=99s handle isn=99
t somehow not in the middle position?
>
> Jon
>
> On Jul 16, 2018, at 3:57 PM, Byron Fox <byronmfox@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> When last reported, I left my hangar baffled. Having replaced my old flap
valve with the three-month old one, the result was unchanged. The flap woul
d go down, but not come up.
>>
>> The following morning when I arrived at the hangar, I knew air pressure i
n the plane's plumbing would be zero. So I decided to see what would happen,
if first, I raised the flap handle, and then turned on the main air. Instan
tly, up came the flap!
>>
>> It was clear, therefore, that there was no blockage in the upside air lin
es. The same was true of the downside air lines. What then was impeding the f
lap from rising when there was air pressure in the system?
>>
>> So, I started playing with the flap handle. Raising the handle straight t
hrough the neutral position, as I normally would, I'd hear a quick "Psst" ou
t of the flap valve as I went through neutral, but the flap would not come u
p.
>>
>> Then raising the flap handle more slowly and pausing in the neutral posi
tion, the downside pressure in the actuator vented and the flap came up when
the handle was moved to the up position. So, it's a work-around, but it's n
ot right.
>>
>> It was Saturday, so my neighbor two hangars away had his Nanchang on the r
amp. With his permission, I turned his air on and lowered the flap handle in
the front cockpit with the handle in back in the neutral position. Down, of
course, went the flap. I then lifted the front flap handle, and the instant
I went through the neutral position the downside pressure started to vent a
nd continued to vent and then pressurize as I smoothly went to the up positi
on. And, of course, up came the flap.
>>
>> So it would appear that my new flap valve is not venting properly. But wa
it! The same thing happened before I swapped my old flap valve for the new o
ne. The flap would go down, but not up. By capping-off all three air lines t
o the backseat flap valve had an effect I don't understand?
>>
>> What do you think?
>>
>> --
>> ... Blitz
>>
>> Byron M. Fox
>> 80 Milland Drive
>> Mill Valley, CA 94941
>> 415-307-2405
>>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Nanchang Hissy Fit Flap |
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| Subject: | Re: Nanchang Hissy Fit Flap |
I just looked at Craig Payne's air system guide again and I was quite
wrong, Jon. Craig says and the diagram is clear that:
"Emergency Air is routed from a check valve on the firewall and is NOT
supplied directly by Diverter Valves on the Actuators like the Landing Gear
Circuit. "
Staring at the diagrams, however, I'm puzzled as how the diverter valves
play a role venting down pressure when the forward flap handle is moved to
the up position.
I'm also assuming that when the backseat flap handle is in the neutral
position no air is entering the aft flap valve. When the aft flap handle is
put in the up, or down, position air from the aft valve flows through the
diverter valves to the flap.
On Mon, Jul 16, 2018 at 2:48 PM, Jon Boede <jonboede@hotmail.com> wrote:
> The aft cockpit gear handle has five connections while the aft flap handl
e
> has three. The diverter valves give the aft flap handle the ability to ha
ve
> priority in the same manner as the gear handle. Why they use two differen
t
> methods to achieve the same ends is a mystery to me, but they do.
>
> I=99m guessing one of your flap diverter valves has a stuck shuttle
.
> They=99re pretty easy to change. The Russian ones for the Yak work
exactly
> the same as the Chinese ones.
>
> Jon
>
>
> On Jul 16, 2018, at 4:37 PM, Byron Fox <byronmfox@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Sorry if I=99ve failed to be to clear, Jon.
>
> By =9Cflap valve=9D I mean the valve to which the flap handl
e is attached.
>
> My understanding heretofore, was that the sole function of the shuttle, o
r
> diverter valves, in the backseat was to permit emergency air into the fla
p
> system if required. That would be how I=99ve interpreted the pneuma
tic system
> diagram and Craig Payne=99s air system guide.
>
> On Jul 16, 2018, at 2:07 PM, Jon Boede <jonboede@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> By =9Cflap valve=9D do you mean the actuator handle or the sh
uttle valve that
> lets the back seat override the front? Are you sure your system isn
=99t
> convinced that the instructor=99s handle isn=99t somehow not
in the middle
> position?
>
> Jon
>
> On Jul 16, 2018, at 3:57 PM, Byron Fox <byronmfox@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> When last reported, I left my hangar baffled. Having replaced my old flap
> valve with the three-month old one, the result was unchanged. The flap
> would go down, but not come up.
>
> The following morning when I arrived at the hangar, I knew air pressure i
n
> the plane's plumbing would be zero. So I decided to see what would happen
,
> if first, I raised the flap handle, and then turned on the main air.
> Instantly, up came the flap!
>
> It was clear, therefore, that there was no blockage in the upside air
> lines. The same was true of the downside air lines. What then was impedin
g
> the flap from rising when there was air pressure in the system?
>
> So, I started playing with the flap handle. Raising the handle straight
> through the neutral position, as I normally would, I'd hear a quick "Psst
"
> out of the flap valve as I went through neutral, but the flap would not
> come up.
>
> Then raising the flap handle more slowly and pausing in the neutral
> position, the downside pressure in the actuator vented and the flap came
up
> when the handle was moved to the up position. So, it's a work-around, but
> it's not right.
>
> It was Saturday, so my neighbor two hangars away had his Nanchang on the
> ramp. With his permission, I turned his air on and lowered the flap handl
e
> in the front cockpit with the handle in back in the neutral position. Dow
n,
> of course, went the flap. I then lifted the front flap handle, and the
> instant I went through the neutral position the downside pressure started
> to vent and continued to vent and then pressurize as I smoothly went to t
he
> up position. And, of course, up came the flap.
>
> So it would appear that my new flap valve is not venting properly. *But
> wait!* The same thing happened before I swapped my old flap valve for the
> new one. The flap would go down, but not up. By capping-off all three ai
r
> lines to the backseat flap valve had an effect I don't understand?
>
> What do you think?
>
> --
> ... Blitz
>
> Byron M. Fox
> 80 Milland Drive
> <https://maps.google.com/?q+Milland+Drive+%0D%0A+Mill+Valley,+CA+949
41+%0D%0A+415&entry=gmail&source=g>
> Mill Valley, CA 94941
> <https://maps.google.com/?q+Milland+Drive+%0D%0A+Mill+Valley,+CA+949
41+%0D%0A+415&entry=gmail&source=g>
> 415
> <https://maps.google.com/?q+Milland+Drive+%0D%0A+Mill+Valley,+CA+949
41+%0D%0A+415&entry=gmail&source=g>
> -307-2405
>
>
--
... Blitz
Byron M. Fox
80 Milland Drive
Mill Valley, CA 94941
415-307-2405
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