---------------------------------------------------------- Yak-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Wed 07/18/18: 8 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 08:19 AM - Valves inspection (Javier Carrasco Ballesteros) 2. 01:04 PM - Valves inspection (Bitterlich, Mark G CIV NAVAIR, WD) 3. 01:17 PM - Re: Valves inspection (Walter Lannon) 4. 01:37 PM - Re: Valves inspection (Looigi) 5. 01:45 PM - Re: Valves inspection (Jon Boede) 6. 02:43 PM - Re: Re: Valves inspection (Robin Hou) 7. 02:44 PM - Re: Re: Valves inspection (A. Dennis Savarese) 8. 05:26 PM - Re: Re: Valves inspection (A. Dennis Savarese) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 08:19:58 AM PST US From: Javier Carrasco Ballesteros Subject: Yak-List: Valves inspection Hello everyone, It is annual inspection for my Yak-55, M-14P. I have read a lot about the sticky valve issue, and asked the mechanics to check on them. He said that he needs to remove the cylinder top covers, remove the spring and manually move them. If the stick then he will remove the valve and clean the shaft. Have any of you done the same procedure, agree/disagree or have any other s uggestion to things to check for while he is at it? Thanks, Javier Carrasco Yak-55 N5245H Sent from Mail for Windows 10 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 01:04:19 PM PST US From: "Bitterlich, Mark G CIV NAVAIR, WD" Subject: Yak-List: Valves inspection I was waiting for someone else to reply, but I guess not. First, the only issue I know regarding "sticking valves" is due to carbon buildup, and yes it is possible for this to get into the valve guides, but that almost always impacts the valves not seating properly and is typically found during a differential compression test, where air leaks through the exhaust valve into the exhaust pipes and is easy to detect just by listening. Another viable method is to inspect the valves with a type of borescope or miniature camera, which today are pretty cheap. Second, I have never in my life heard of a person suggesting that they remove the valve springs, which means also removing the valve keeps, which can easily result in the valve dropping down into the chamber stopping at the piston. Of course there is always the Indian Rope Trick of stuffing rope through a spark plug hole into the cylinder to prevent this. So my input is that doing this at a yearly Conditional Inspection without proof of any problem to begin with is way way over the top. As far as "removing the valve to clean the shaft", that means pulling the whole cylinder off. There has been more than one person that has dropped small parts down into the engine while yanking a cylinder of an M-14, so my NEXT question would be: "How much actual experience does your mechanic have on M-14 engines, and how many cylinders (if any) has he ever pulled off? I could be totally mistaken, but given what you related in your posting, it sounds to me as if he is planning on gaining experience .... on your engine. It is not necessary to remove valve keepers and springs and attempt to judge valve movement during a Conditional Inspection. It is not called for in any task manual from the Russians, and is not practiced by any M-14 owner that I am aware of. I'll leave this for others to chime in on. My offer would be that a compression test done while the engine is hot will quickly show any carbon build up on the valve or seat, which normally happens before it makes it's way into the valve guide. Regardless a borescope will show it in great detail and should be considered as a first step way before taking apart valves or cylinders. Mark -----Original Message----- From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com On Behalf Of Javier Carrasco Ballesteros Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2018 11:20 AM Subject: [Non-DoD Source] Yak-List: Valves inspection Hello everyone, It is annual inspection for my Yak-55, M-14P. I have read a lot about the sticky valve issue, and asked the mechanics to check on them. He said that he needs to remove the cylinder top covers, remove the spring and manually move them. If the stick then he will remove the valve and clean the shaft. Have any of you done the same procedure, agree/disagree or have any other suggestion to things to check for while he is at it? Thanks, Javier Carrasco Yak-55 N5245H Sent from Mail for Windows 10 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 01:17:00 PM PST US From: "Walter Lannon" Subject: Re: Yak-List: Valves inspection Only two things I would recommend at this time:------ 1. Start using MMM in the fuel and 2. Get a new mechanic. Walt From: Javier Carrasco Ballesteros Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2018 8:19 AM Subject: Yak-List: Valves inspection Hello everyone, It is annual inspection for my Yak-55, M-14P. I have read a lot about the sticky valve issue, and asked the mechanics to check on them. He said that he needs to remove the cylinder top covers, remove the spring and manually move them. If the stick then he will remove the valve and clean the shaft. Have any of you done the same procedure, agree/disagree or have any other s uggestion to things to check for while he is at it? Thanks, Javier Carrasco Yak-55 N5245H Sent from Mail for Windows 10 --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 01:37:01 PM PST US Subject: Yak-List: Re: Valves inspection From: "Looigi" Hi Javier, As an A&P who has my own yak-52 I echo Mark comments. The only time you should be doing pulling bits off your airplane is for routine maintenance or when something is busted. Pulling cylinders for an inspection is, in my opinion, not a smart idea. A good analogy would be open heart surgery to have a look at your heart valves! You are introducing the risk of infant mortality unnecessarily. Do a leak down test and bung a boroscope into each cylinder and have a look around that way. A failing valve will stand out a mile if you know what you are looking for. There is a very good series of videos on Youtube by a guy called Mike Busch (Savy Aviator), one on valves. While Mike has much bigger balls than I do when it comes to maintenance his principles are sound and he gives good and well thought out advice. The moral of my story is the old saying.... If it is not broke, don't fix it! Chris Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=481735#481735 ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 01:45:38 PM PST US From: Jon Boede Subject: Re: Yak-List: Valves inspection SSBzZWNvbmQgdGhpcyBtb3Rpb24uDQoNCk9uIEp1bCAxOCwgMjAxOCwgYXQgMzozNCBQTSwgV2Fs dGVyIExhbm5vbiA8d2xhbm5vbkBzaGF3LmNhPG1haWx0bzp3bGFubm9uQHNoYXcuY2E+PiB3cm90 ZToNCg0KT25seSB0d28gdGhpbmdzIEkgd291bGQgcmVjb21tZW5kIGF0IHRoaXMgdGltZTotLS0t LS0NCg0KMS4gU3RhcnQgdXNpbmcgTU1NIGluIHRoZSBmdWVsIGFuZA0KMi4gR2V0IGEgbmV3IG1l Y2hhbmljLg0KDQpXYWx0DQoNCkZyb206IEphdmllciBDYXJyYXNjbyBCYWxsZXN0ZXJvczxtYWls dG86amF2aWVyY2FycmFzY29iQHlhaG9vLmNvbT4NClNlbnQ6IFdlZG5lc2RheSwgSnVseSAxOCwg MjAxOCA4OjE5IEFNDQpUbzogeWFrLWxpc3RAbWF0cm9uaWNzLmNvbTxtYWlsdG86eWFrLWxpc3RA bWF0cm9uaWNzLmNvbT4NClN1YmplY3Q6IFlhay1MaXN0OiBWYWx2ZXMgaW5zcGVjdGlvbg0KDQoN CkhlbGxvIGV2ZXJ5b25lLA0KDQpJdCBpcyBhbm51YWwgaW5zcGVjdGlvbiBmb3IgbXkgWWFrLTU1 LCBNLTE0UC4NCg0KSSBoYXZlIHJlYWQgYSBsb3QgYWJvdXQgdGhlIHN0aWNreSB2YWx2ZSBpc3N1 ZSwgYW5kIGFza2VkIHRoZSBtZWNoYW5pY3MgdG8gY2hlY2sgb24gdGhlbS4NCg0KSGUgc2FpZCB0 aGF0IGhlIG5lZWRzIHRvIHJlbW92ZSB0aGUgY3lsaW5kZXIgdG9wIGNvdmVycywgcmVtb3ZlIHRo ZSBzcHJpbmcgYW5kIG1hbnVhbGx5IG1vdmUgdGhlbS4NCg0KSWYgdGhlIHN0aWNrIHRoZW4gaGUg d2lsbCByZW1vdmUgdGhlIHZhbHZlIGFuZCBjbGVhbiB0aGUgc2hhZnQuDQoNCkhhdmUgYW55IG9m IHlvdSBkb25lIHRoZSBzYW1lIHByb2NlZHVyZSwgYWdyZWUvZGlzYWdyZWUgb3IgaGF2ZSBhbnkg b3RoZXIgc3VnZ2VzdGlvbiB0byB0aGluZ3MgdG8gY2hlY2sgZm9yIHdoaWxlIGhlIGlzIGF0IGl0 Pw0KDQpUaGFua3MsDQoNCkphdmllciBDYXJyYXNjbw0KWWFrLTU1IE41MjQ1SA0KDQoNCg0KDQpT ZW50IGZyb20gTWFpbDxodHRwczovL2dvLm1pY3Jvc29mdC5jb20vZndsaW5rLz9MaW5rSWQ9NTUw OTg2PiBmb3IgV2luZG93cyAxMA0KDQoNCltodHRwczovL2lwbWNkbi5hdmFzdC5jb20vaW1hZ2Vz L2ljb25zL2ljb24tZW52ZWxvcGUtdGljay1yb3VuZC1vcmFuZ2UtYW5pbWF0ZWQtbm8tcmVwZWF0 LXYxLmdpZl08aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuYXZhc3QuY29tL3NpZy1lbWFpbD91dG1fbWVkaXVtPWVtYWls JnV0bV9zb3VyY2U9bGluayZ1dG1fY2FtcGFpZ249c2lnLWVtYWlsJnV0bV9jb250ZW50PWVtYWls Y2xpZW50PiAgICAgIFZpcnVzLWZyZWUuIHd3dy5hdmFzdC5jb208aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuYXZhc3Qu Y29tL3NpZy1lbWFpbD91dG1fbWVkaXVtPWVtYWlsJnV0bV9zb3VyY2U9bGluayZ1dG1fY2FtcGFp Z249c2lnLWVtYWlsJnV0bV9jb250ZW50PWVtYWlsY2xpZW50Pg0K ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 02:43:51 PM PST US From: Robin Hou Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: Valves inspection Not a M14-p owner, but my Housai will shake and growl with sticky valve. After shut off, the offending cylinder will be colder to touch compare with others. I have had good luck feeding my Housai with MMO in oil and fuel to cure sticky valve. No need to remove a cylinder for 6 years and over 300 hours. On Wed, Jul 18, 2018 at 1:46 PM Looigi wrote: > > Hi Javier, > > As an A&P who has my own yak-52 I echo Mark comments. The only time you > should be doing pulling bits off your airplane is for routine maintenance > or when something is busted. > > Pulling cylinders for an inspection is, in my opinion, not a smart idea. > A good analogy would be open heart surgery to have a look at your heart > valves! You are introducing the risk of infant mortality unnecessarily. > > Do a leak down test and bung a boroscope into each cylinder and have a > look around that way. A failing valve will stand out a mile if you know > what you are looking for. There is a very good series of videos on Youtube > by a guy called Mike Busch (Savy Aviator), one on valves. While Mike has > much bigger balls than I do when it comes to maintenance his principles are > sound and he gives good and well thought out advice. > > The moral of my story is the old saying.... If it is not broke, don't fix > it! > > Chris > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=481735#481735 > > ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 02:44:21 PM PST US From: "A. Dennis Savarese" Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: Valves inspection Concur 110% with Walt.=C2- Add it to the oil religiously.=C2- I would a lso add a quart or even 2 to the oil and run the engine a couple of hours. =C2- You'll be amazed at how MMO will remove the varnish on the valve/val ve guide which is causing the sticking valve.Dennis From: Looigi To: yak-list@matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2018 4:39 PM Subject: Yak-List: Re: Valves inspection Hi Javier, As an A&P who has my own yak-52 I echo Mark comments.=C2- The only time y ou should be doing pulling bits off your airplane is for routine maintenanc e or when something is busted. Pulling cylinders for an inspection is, in my opinion, not a smart idea.=C2 - A good analogy would be open heart surgery to have a look at your heart valves!=C2- You are introducing the risk of infant mortality unnecessari ly. Do a leak down test and bung a boroscope into each cylinder and have a look around that way.=C2- A failing valve will stand out a mile if you know w hat you are looking for.=C2- There is a very good series of videos on You tube by a guy called Mike Busch (Savy Aviator), one on valves.=C2- While Mike has much bigger balls than I do when it comes to maintenance his princ iples are sound and he gives good and well thought out advice. The moral of my story is the old saying.... If it is not broke, don't fix i t! Chris Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=481735#481735 S - WIKI - - =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- -Matt Dralle, List Admin. ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 05:26:21 PM PST US From: "A. Dennis Savarese" Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: Valves inspection I meant add it to the fuel religiously. Add a coding to instructions on the c ontainer. Dennis Sent from my iPad > On Jul 18, 2018, at 5:44 PM, A. Dennis Savarese wrote: > > Concur 110% with Walt. Add it to the oil religiously. I would also add a quart or even 2 to the oil and run the engine a couple of hours. You'll be amazed at how MMO will remove the varnish on the valve/valve guide which is causing the sticking valve. > Dennis > > > From: Looigi > To: yak-list@matronics.com > Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2018 4:39 PM > Subject: Yak-List: Re: Valves inspection > > > Hi Javier, > > As an A&P who has my own yak-52 I echo Mark comments. The only time you s hould be doing pulling bits off your airplane is for routine maintenance or w hen something is busted. > > Pulling cylinders for an inspection is, in my opinion, not a smart idea. A good analogy would be open heart surgery to have a look at your heart valve s! You are introducing the risk of infant mortality unnecessarily. > > Do a leak down test and bung a boroscope into each cylinder and have a loo k around that way. A failing valve will stand out a mile if you know what y ou are looking for. There is a very good series of videos on Youtube by a g uy called Mike Busch (Savy Aviator), one on valves. While Mike has much big ger balls than I do when it comes to maintenance his principles are sound an d he gives good and well thought out advice. > > The moral of my story is the old saying.... If it is not broke, don't fix i t! > > Chris > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=481735#481735 > > > > > > Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, > http://www.matronics.com/Np; - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - > <; --> http:/nbsp; - NEW MATRONICS LIST WIKI -matronics.com/" t arget="_blank">http://wiki.matronics.com > ; -Matt Draltp://www.matronics.com/contribution" target= "_blank">http://www.matronics= > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message yak-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Yak-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/yak-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/yak-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.