Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 07:32 AM - Re: Buying a CJ6 or Yak 52, what to look for? (nylbrooks)
2. 08:21 AM - Re: Re: Yak 52 updated wing spar is a must? (George S. Coy)
3. 09:20 AM - Re: Re: Yak 52 updated wing spar is a must? (Roger Kemp)
4. 10:32 AM - Re: Yak 52 updated wing spar is a must? (stephen.hayne)
5. 10:48 AM - Re: Buying a CJ6 or Yak 52, what to look for? (motoadve)
6. 11:05 AM - Re: Buying a CJ6 or Yak 52, what to look for? (jay-dub)
7. 11:39 AM - Re: Yak 52 updated wing spar is a must? (Dr. Herbert Coussons)
8. 12:52 PM - Re: Re: Buying a CJ6 or Yak 52, what to look for? (Roger Kemp)
9. 05:46 PM - Re: Buying a CJ6 or Yak 52, what to look for? (Greg Wrobel)
10. 06:16 PM - Re: Buying a CJ6 or Yak 52, what to look for? (William Geipel)
11. 06:50 PM - Re: Buying a CJ6 or Yak 52, what to look for? (motoadve)
12. 07:18 PM - Re: Re: Buying a CJ6 or Yak 52, what to look for? (John Warwick)
13. 07:46 PM - Re: CJ6 Housai Mixture adjustment (stephen.hayne)
14. 08:24 PM - Re: Re: Buying a CJ6 or Yak 52, what to look for? (JON)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Buying a CJ6 or Yak 52, what to look for? |
Sir,
I don't believe you can go wrong with either aircraft. That being said, their
strengths and weaknesses are a bit different. Define what your mission will be
for the majority of your flights and choose from there. (Mine was the CJ6A).
The most important bit of advice is read this list on a regular basis! The folks
who offer their expertise on this list to help solve maintenance issues are
incredible. A few of the names who can be of great help are Doug, Dennis, Mark,
Doc, Walt, Pappy and several others.
Good Luck!
Ken
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=483640#483640
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| Subject: | Re: Yak 52 updated wing spar is a must? |
Are Radial engines Reliable? I would answer that I have some experience with this.
I consider Radial engines very reliable. I have had several experiences where
the engine suffered major problems and still brought me home.
1. I lost all the oil from a Antonov 2 with a Ash-62 radial (a de-rated to 1000
hp Russian license built Wright 1820) during a ferry flight from Lithuania to
Vermont in a Russian AN-2 back in the 1990's. We were on a leg from the Shetland
Islands to Reykjavik Iceland over the North Sea. We notice we were losing
oil pressure when we were over an hour form the nearest land. The engine continued
running with no indicated oil pressure for over 15 minutes. Upon reducing
power during the landing the engine seized. We found the oil screen completely
packed with metal filings with some chunks thumbnail size.
2. I had a radial keep running despite having the top half of one of the pistons
go to the top of a cylinder and staying there! Meanwhile the link rod went
thrashing around bashing up lower cylinder walls of the rest of the cylinders.
That was in a DC3 with a P&W R1820. The only indication was some extra vibrations.
It happened while I was taking my DC3 type rating ride while under the
hood and just intercepting the localizer. Passed the test anyway.
I have seen a Yak-52 M14P engine that "swallowed" an exhaust valve. The client
flew it to us for repairs just complaining it was running "rough".
Radial engines have only one main bearing, and seem to just keep running. Furthermore,
the Russian engines use a bronze alloy for the main bearings that seems
to hold up better than the western babbitt or silver bearings.
The only downside of radial engines is the larger frontal area and the fact at
overhaul you have a lot more cylinders to overhaul.
George Coy
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| Subject: | Re: Yak 52 updated wing spar is a must? |
Sent from my iPad
> On Oct 6, 2018, at 10:20 AM, George S. Coy <george.coy@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> Are Radial engines Reliable? I would answer that I have some experience with
this. I consider Radial engines very reliable. I have had several experiences
where the engine suffered major problems and still brought me home.
> 1. I lost all the oil from a Antonov 2 with a Ash-62 radial (a de-rated to 1000
hp Russian license built Wright 1820) during a ferry flight from Lithuania
to Vermont in a Russian AN-2 back in the 1990's. We were on a leg from the Shetland
Islands to Reykjavik Iceland over the North Sea. We notice we were losing
oil pressure when we were over an hour form the nearest land. The engine continued
running with no indicated oil pressure for over 15 minutes. Upon reducing
power during the landing the engine seized. We found the oil screen completely
packed with metal filings with some chunks thumbnail size.
> 2. I had a radial keep running despite having the top half of one of the pistons
go to the top of a cylinder and staying there! Meanwhile the link rod went
thrashing around bashing up lower cylinder walls of the rest of the cylinders.
That was in a DC3 with a P&W R1820. The only indication was some extra vibrations.
It happened while I was taking my DC3 type rating ride while under the
hood and just intercepting the localizer. Passed the test anyway.
>
> I have seen a Yak-52 M14P engine that "swallowed" an exhaust valve. The client
flew it to us for repairs just complaining it was running "rough".
>
>
> Radial engines have only one main bearing, and seem to just keep running. Furthermore,
the Russian engines use a bronze alloy for the main bearings that seems
to hold up better than the western babbitt or silver bearings.
>
> The only downside of radial engines is the larger frontal area and the fact at
overhaul you have a lot more cylinders to overhaul.
>
> George Coy
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Yak 52 updated wing spar is a must? |
GeorgeCoy wrote:
> Are Radial engines Reliable? I would answer that I have some experience with
this. I consider Radial engines very reliable. I have had several experiences
where the engine suffered major problems and still brought me home.
>
> 1. I lost all the oil from a Antonov 2 with a Ash-62 radial (a de-rated to 1000
hp Russian license built Wright 1820) during a ferry flight from Lithuania
to Vermont in a Russian AN-2 back in the 1990's. We were on a leg from the Shetland
Islands to Reykjavik Iceland over the North Sea. We notice we were losing
oil pressure when we were over an hour form the nearest land. The engine continued
running with no indicated oil pressure for over 15 minutes.
>
> George Coy
I have to chime in here - I only have 1000'ish hours in GA (mostly in my 310),
and about 70 hours behind the Housai in my CJ. Eight months ago (after 4 years
of assembly, getting the AW certificate and about 18 hours of initial flying),
I lost all oil pressure. I was in the practice area, maneuvering - prop went
to low RPM (high pitch), and I turned direct RTB. It took about 5-7 minutes
to landing, and I did fly with reduced power, just keeping altitude until I
could let down.
Turns out the sump screen was filled with carbon, and the main tank was empty...
we did all the post-event inspection type things (plugs, borescope, checked
other screens and filter (I have an oil filter system), ground runs, screen checks,
etc. - all whistle clean).
I've now flown another 50 hours, checking sump screen for carbon every 5-10 hours
progressively. At every check there has been less and less carbon in the sump.
Just before this oil change, I found no carbon to speak of. And, the engine
hasn't seized. :)
So, pretty happy.
BTW, many have NOW told me that this was to be expected, during the de-preserving
process and running Phillips 25/60... should have checked the screens after
10 hours, I suppose, but at the time, I didn't really understand the "flow" of
the oil through the engine. Thought the filter would do it all and that surely
25 hours would be a good first oil change. I know better now.
--------
-
Dr. Stephen C. Hayne, Professor, CIS, Colorado State University
666CJA
http://selfsynchronize.com/hayne/plane/cj6.asp
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=483646#483646
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Buying a CJ6 or Yak 52, what to look for? |
Its a bit of a lottery, if the previous owner didnt do the starting procedure correctly
then a rod could be bent and its not possible to tell.
The ones I am looking, one of the CJ 6 has been owned for 17 years by same guy
and engine has 400hrs, I guess if he didnt do the proper procedure it would have
been damaged by now. Compression tests in the 70s all cylinder at last inspection.
Although a bad rod wont affect compressions.
Any signs at what to look for that can show some signs of a bent rod?
Also is the year important? I looked at a 1972, and a 1983, both about same time
on the engine and paint, 1983 plane has 1,000 less total time, owner wants $5,000
more than the one from 1972, and does not include parachutes.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=483647#483647
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Buying a CJ6 or Yak 52, what to look for? |
I owned one of each until this week, having just sold my share in the -52. While
I wouldn't want to discuss the market as I'm on the opposite side of the Atlantic,
as an ownership proposition, I would recommend the CJ over the -52.
It was designed to be field serviceable where the -52 was intended to be returned
to the factory regularly for what amounted to a full rebuild. The CJ is still
in production so parts are easier to get hold of for the CJ, either from China
directly or from the likes of Doug Sapp.
>From a flying point of view, the CJ is a primary trainer so has pretty viceless
handling. It can bite but it's less critical than the -52. The -52 was designed
as an aerobatic machine so has a significantly faster roll rate and climbs
significantly better (assuming the CJ is stock). It can fly the full Aresti catalogue
although it's a bit like doing it in a tractor. In short, if you want
to fly gentleman's/warbird aeros and tour, get the CJ. If you want to rearrange
your internal organs with some negative G, buy the -52.
--------
CJ and Yak-52 owner
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=483648#483648
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Yak 52 updated wing spar is a must? |
Didnt Sergei over stress a wing at Sun n Fun back about a decade ago? I remember
some report when he was added to my insurance back then for flying at OSH in
my plane.
> On Oct 5, 2018, at 10:49 AM, Anthony Savarese <dsavarese0812@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>
>
> There has never been a wing failure in a Yak 52. EVER! Including before SBs
59 and 60 were installed and the airplane was then de-rated to +5 -3Gs without
the 2 SBs.
> 500 hours on an M14 is minimal. Unless the engine is installed on an unlimited
aerobatic aircraft like a Sukhoi 26 etc. where they are operated at only two
speeds....wide open throttle and idle.
> Dennis
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On Oct 5, 2018, at 10:34 AM, motoadve <motoadve@racsa.co.cr> wrote:
>>
>>
>> Still looking for a plane , see some Yak 52s and prices are quite a bit lower
than CJ6, Would you buy a Yak 52 without the updated wing spar?
>>
>> Has there been cases of wing separation?
>>
>> How many hrs are too many hrs on this kind of engines?
>>
>> Is 500hrs a lot?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=483614#483614
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Buying a CJ6 or Yak 52, what to look for? |
You can measure rod throw at TDC for each cylinder. I have forgotten the allowable
difference for the M14. It is in the TOs. Richard Goode has quoted it before.
Doc
Sent from my iPad
> On Oct 6, 2018, at 12:48 PM, motoadve <motoadve@racsa.co.cr> wrote:
>
>
> Its a bit of a lottery, if the previous owner didnt do the starting procedure
correctly then a rod could be bent and its not possible to tell.
>
> The ones I am looking, one of the CJ 6 has been owned for 17 years by same guy
and engine has 400hrs, I guess if he didnt do the proper procedure it would
have been damaged by now. Compression tests in the 70s all cylinder at last inspection.
>
> Although a bad rod wont affect compressions.
>
> Any signs at what to look for that can show some signs of a bent rod?
>
> Also is the year important? I looked at a 1972, and a 1983, both about same time
on the engine and paint, 1983 plane has 1,000 less total time, owner wants
$5,000 more than the one from 1972, and does not include parachutes.
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=483647#483647
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Buying a CJ6 or Yak 52, what to look for? |
CJ6. Gentleman Acro
YAK Climbs better with bigger engine
CJ6 flies faster on smaller engine and less fuel.
CJ6 bigger fuel tanks. Better for Cross Country . Speed, Endurance, Comfort
YAK smaller cockpit.
YAK no Avionics Bay to work behind panel.
CJ6 Big cargo compartment for tools, parts, suitcases, extra scuba tank for
more emmergency on the road air.
YAK. Nada
CJ6 Many Access panels on outside of aircraft for inspection and
maintenance.
YAK. Stand on you head from cockpits
CJ6 Still in production and flown in 8-10 countries. Parts available
CJ6 Did I mention faster, more fuel on board and burning less gas? (Auto
Fuel 83 ethenol free)!
CJ6 Super Cool gull wings.
YAK Hard core acro.
CJ6 Flush Rivited. Faster and easy to wax.
YAK maybe looks more hard military.
YAK & CJ6 Many parts shared.
CJ6 Main gear retracts completely with wheel well covers. Nose protrutes
slightly.
YAK All gear protrudes. Great for great up landings with brakes!
CJ6 Trailing link main gear. Super smooth carrier landings.
YAK straight gear struts. Brace yourself mama.
YAK typically cheaper to buy.
CJ6 typically cheaper to fly.
Look for smoke system, auto spark plugs conversion, elevator spar
reinforcement, parachute, jack's, engine and tail stands, spare parts,
spare engine (new or used), how's the canopys, radio equipment,fuel
computer, autopilot, headsets, etc etc. It all adds into the price.
Good Luck
Determine your primary mission and buy for your primary mission.
.
On Wed, Oct 3, 2018, 20:39 motoadve <motoadve@racsa.co.cr> wrote:
>
> New to this airplanes, love warbirds and they look fun.
> 2,000hr bush pilot here.
>
> So what are the main items to look when buying either a Yak or CJ6?
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=483587#483587
>
>
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Buying a CJ6 or Yak 52, what to look for? |
Wax? What?
> On Oct 6, 2018, at 18:45, Greg Wrobel <clouddog22@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> CJ6. Gentleman Acro
> YAK Climbs better with bigger engine
> CJ6 flies faster on smaller engine and less fuel.
> CJ6 bigger fuel tanks. Better for Cross Country . Speed, Endurance,
Comfort
> YAK smaller cockpit.
> YAK no Avionics Bay to work behind panel.
> CJ6 Big cargo compartment for tools, parts, suitcases, extra scuba
tank for more emmergency on the road air.
> YAK. Nada
> CJ6 Many Access panels on outside of aircraft for inspection and
maintenance.
> YAK. Stand on you head from cockpits
> CJ6 Still in production and flown in 8-10 countries. Parts available
> CJ6 Did I mention faster, more fuel on board and burning less gas?
(Auto Fuel 83 ethenol free)!
> CJ6 Super Cool gull wings.
> YAK Hard core acro.
> CJ6 Flush Rivited. Faster and easy to wax.
> YAK maybe looks more hard military.
> YAK & CJ6 Many parts shared.
> CJ6 Main gear retracts completely with wheel well covers. Nose
protrutes slightly.
> YAK All gear protrudes. Great for great up landings with brakes!
> CJ6 Trailing link main gear. Super smooth carrier landings.
> YAK straight gear struts. Brace yourself mama.
> YAK typically cheaper to buy.
> CJ6 typically cheaper to fly.
>
> Look for smoke system, auto spark plugs conversion, elevator spar
reinforcement, parachute, jack's, engine and tail stands, spare parts,
spare engine (new or used), how's the canopys, radio equipment,fuel
computer, autopilot, headsets, etc etc. It all adds into the price.
>
> Good Luck
>
> Determine your primary mission and buy for your primary mission.
>
>
>
>
>
> .
>
>
> On Wed, Oct 3, 2018, 20:39 motoadve <motoadve@racsa.co.cr
<mailto:motoadve@racsa.co.cr>> wrote:
<mailto:motoadve@racsa.co.cr>>
>
> New to this airplanes, love warbirds and they look fun.
> 2,000hr bush pilot here.
>
> So what are the main items to look when buying either a Yak or CJ6?
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=483587#483587
<http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=483587#483587>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ==========
> List" rel="noreferrer noreferrer"
target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
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> eferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com
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Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Buying a CJ6 or Yak 52, what to look for? |
Ok almost closing the deal on a CJ6.
400 hrs engine IRAN, last inspection Dec 2017 all compressions in the 70s
Great paint
stock engine
stainless exhaust,
smoke system
2 parachutes,
large baggage
intake drains
Intercom
Transponder
No spin oil filter (This is the very first mod I would like to do(Where do I buy
it?)
No auto spark plugs
Deal will include my checkout in the airplane.
I have a friend who is an A&P who will inspect it tomorrow, and if he said its
ok I will fly it next week and buy it.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=483667#483667
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Buying a CJ6 or Yak 52, what to look for? |
Congrats!! Hope the deal goes down ok
Click this link to find RPA members near your zip code
http://flyredstar.org/ziplookup.php
Fly often and be safe.
Cheers
John
On Sat, Oct 6, 2018 at 3:56 PM motoadve <motoadve@racsa.co.cr> wrote:
>
> Ok almost closing the deal on a CJ6.
> 400 hrs engine IRAN, last inspection Dec 2017 all compressions in the 70s
> Great paint
> stock engine
> stainless exhaust,
> smoke system
> 2 parachutes,
> large baggage
> intake drains
> Intercom
> Transponder
>
> No spin oil filter (This is the very first mod I would like to do(Where do
> I buy it?)
>
> No auto spark plugs
>
> Deal will include my checkout in the airplane.
> I have a friend who is an A&P who will inspect it tomorrow, and if he said
> its ok I will fly it next week and buy it.
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=483667#483667
>
>
> --
www.theyakcollection.com
619 933-2571
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: CJ6 Housai Mixture adjustment |
Harv wrote:
> Good morning
>
> With all this talk of mixture setting.....
>
> Has anyone changed the (by turning the screw in the carb body located behind
the wire locked plug) setting on their HS6 Housai engine?
>
> My CJ6 has low CHT temps in the climb (at max continuous power) and also low
oil temps and I'm sure its running slightly too rich and guzzling fuel.
>
> Is there's a proper procedure for set-up, or is it a case of leaning off half
a turn and then see how that affects things?
>
> Rgs
> Harv
I have a slightly rich burning Housai, and would like to know more about the carb
setup/tuning procedure - anyone???
--------
-
Dr. Stephen C. Hayne, Professor, CIS, Colorado State University
666CJA
http://selfsynchronize.com/hayne/plane/cj6.asp
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=483669#483669
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Buying a CJ6 or Yak 52, what to look for? |
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