---------------------------------------------------------- Yak-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sat 10/06/18: 14 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 07:32 AM - Re: Buying a CJ6 or Yak 52, what to look for? (nylbrooks) 2. 08:21 AM - Re: Re: Yak 52 updated wing spar is a must? (George S. Coy) 3. 09:20 AM - Re: Re: Yak 52 updated wing spar is a must? (Roger Kemp) 4. 10:32 AM - Re: Yak 52 updated wing spar is a must? (stephen.hayne) 5. 10:48 AM - Re: Buying a CJ6 or Yak 52, what to look for? (motoadve) 6. 11:05 AM - Re: Buying a CJ6 or Yak 52, what to look for? (jay-dub) 7. 11:39 AM - Re: Yak 52 updated wing spar is a must? (Dr. Herbert Coussons) 8. 12:52 PM - Re: Re: Buying a CJ6 or Yak 52, what to look for? (Roger Kemp) 9. 05:46 PM - Re: Buying a CJ6 or Yak 52, what to look for? (Greg Wrobel) 10. 06:16 PM - Re: Buying a CJ6 or Yak 52, what to look for? (William Geipel) 11. 06:50 PM - Re: Buying a CJ6 or Yak 52, what to look for? (motoadve) 12. 07:18 PM - Re: Re: Buying a CJ6 or Yak 52, what to look for? (John Warwick) 13. 07:46 PM - Re: CJ6 Housai Mixture adjustment (stephen.hayne) 14. 08:24 PM - Re: Re: Buying a CJ6 or Yak 52, what to look for? (JON) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 07:32:27 AM PST US Subject: Yak-List: Re: Buying a CJ6 or Yak 52, what to look for? From: "nylbrooks" Sir, I don't believe you can go wrong with either aircraft. That being said, their strengths and weaknesses are a bit different. Define what your mission will be for the majority of your flights and choose from there. (Mine was the CJ6A). The most important bit of advice is read this list on a regular basis! The folks who offer their expertise on this list to help solve maintenance issues are incredible. A few of the names who can be of great help are Doug, Dennis, Mark, Doc, Walt, Pappy and several others. Good Luck! Ken Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=483640#483640 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 08:21:25 AM PST US From: "George S. Coy" Subject: RE: Yak-List: Re: Yak 52 updated wing spar is a must? Are Radial engines Reliable? I would answer that I have some experience with this. I consider Radial engines very reliable. I have had several experiences where the engine suffered major problems and still brought me home. 1. I lost all the oil from a Antonov 2 with a Ash-62 radial (a de-rated to 1000 hp Russian license built Wright 1820) during a ferry flight from Lithuania to Vermont in a Russian AN-2 back in the 1990's. We were on a leg from the Shetland Islands to Reykjavik Iceland over the North Sea. We notice we were losing oil pressure when we were over an hour form the nearest land. The engine continued running with no indicated oil pressure for over 15 minutes. Upon reducing power during the landing the engine seized. We found the oil screen completely packed with metal filings with some chunks thumbnail size. 2. I had a radial keep running despite having the top half of one of the pistons go to the top of a cylinder and staying there! Meanwhile the link rod went thrashing around bashing up lower cylinder walls of the rest of the cylinders. That was in a DC3 with a P&W R1820. The only indication was some extra vibrations. It happened while I was taking my DC3 type rating ride while under the hood and just intercepting the localizer. Passed the test anyway. I have seen a Yak-52 M14P engine that "swallowed" an exhaust valve. The client flew it to us for repairs just complaining it was running "rough". Radial engines have only one main bearing, and seem to just keep running. Furthermore, the Russian engines use a bronze alloy for the main bearings that seems to hold up better than the western babbitt or silver bearings. The only downside of radial engines is the larger frontal area and the fact at overhaul you have a lot more cylinders to overhaul. George Coy ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 09:20:20 AM PST US From: Roger Kemp Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: Yak 52 updated wing spar is a must? Sent from my iPad > On Oct 6, 2018, at 10:20 AM, George S. Coy wrote: > > > Are Radial engines Reliable? I would answer that I have some experience with this. I consider Radial engines very reliable. I have had several experiences where the engine suffered major problems and still brought me home. > 1. I lost all the oil from a Antonov 2 with a Ash-62 radial (a de-rated to 1000 hp Russian license built Wright 1820) during a ferry flight from Lithuania to Vermont in a Russian AN-2 back in the 1990's. We were on a leg from the Shetland Islands to Reykjavik Iceland over the North Sea. We notice we were losing oil pressure when we were over an hour form the nearest land. The engine continued running with no indicated oil pressure for over 15 minutes. Upon reducing power during the landing the engine seized. We found the oil screen completely packed with metal filings with some chunks thumbnail size. > 2. I had a radial keep running despite having the top half of one of the pistons go to the top of a cylinder and staying there! Meanwhile the link rod went thrashing around bashing up lower cylinder walls of the rest of the cylinders. That was in a DC3 with a P&W R1820. The only indication was some extra vibrations. It happened while I was taking my DC3 type rating ride while under the hood and just intercepting the localizer. Passed the test anyway. > > I have seen a Yak-52 M14P engine that "swallowed" an exhaust valve. The client flew it to us for repairs just complaining it was running "rough". > > > Radial engines have only one main bearing, and seem to just keep running. Furthermore, the Russian engines use a bronze alloy for the main bearings that seems to hold up better than the western babbitt or silver bearings. > > The only downside of radial engines is the larger frontal area and the fact at overhaul you have a lot more cylinders to overhaul. > > George Coy > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 10:32:54 AM PST US Subject: Yak-List: Re: Yak 52 updated wing spar is a must? From: "stephen.hayne" GeorgeCoy wrote: > Are Radial engines Reliable? I would answer that I have some experience with this. I consider Radial engines very reliable. I have had several experiences where the engine suffered major problems and still brought me home. > > 1. I lost all the oil from a Antonov 2 with a Ash-62 radial (a de-rated to 1000 hp Russian license built Wright 1820) during a ferry flight from Lithuania to Vermont in a Russian AN-2 back in the 1990's. We were on a leg from the Shetland Islands to Reykjavik Iceland over the North Sea. We notice we were losing oil pressure when we were over an hour form the nearest land. The engine continued running with no indicated oil pressure for over 15 minutes. > > George Coy I have to chime in here - I only have 1000'ish hours in GA (mostly in my 310), and about 70 hours behind the Housai in my CJ. Eight months ago (after 4 years of assembly, getting the AW certificate and about 18 hours of initial flying), I lost all oil pressure. I was in the practice area, maneuvering - prop went to low RPM (high pitch), and I turned direct RTB. It took about 5-7 minutes to landing, and I did fly with reduced power, just keeping altitude until I could let down. Turns out the sump screen was filled with carbon, and the main tank was empty... we did all the post-event inspection type things (plugs, borescope, checked other screens and filter (I have an oil filter system), ground runs, screen checks, etc. - all whistle clean). I've now flown another 50 hours, checking sump screen for carbon every 5-10 hours progressively. At every check there has been less and less carbon in the sump. Just before this oil change, I found no carbon to speak of. And, the engine hasn't seized. :) So, pretty happy. BTW, many have NOW told me that this was to be expected, during the de-preserving process and running Phillips 25/60... should have checked the screens after 10 hours, I suppose, but at the time, I didn't really understand the "flow" of the oil through the engine. Thought the filter would do it all and that surely 25 hours would be a good first oil change. I know better now. -------- - Dr. Stephen C. Hayne, Professor, CIS, Colorado State University 666CJA http://selfsynchronize.com/hayne/plane/cj6.asp Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=483646#483646 ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 10:48:39 AM PST US Subject: Yak-List: Re: Buying a CJ6 or Yak 52, what to look for? From: "motoadve" Its a bit of a lottery, if the previous owner didnt do the starting procedure correctly then a rod could be bent and its not possible to tell. The ones I am looking, one of the CJ 6 has been owned for 17 years by same guy and engine has 400hrs, I guess if he didnt do the proper procedure it would have been damaged by now. Compression tests in the 70s all cylinder at last inspection. Although a bad rod wont affect compressions. Any signs at what to look for that can show some signs of a bent rod? Also is the year important? I looked at a 1972, and a 1983, both about same time on the engine and paint, 1983 plane has 1,000 less total time, owner wants $5,000 more than the one from 1972, and does not include parachutes. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=483647#483647 ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 11:05:44 AM PST US Subject: Yak-List: Re: Buying a CJ6 or Yak 52, what to look for? From: "jay-dub" I owned one of each until this week, having just sold my share in the -52. While I wouldn't want to discuss the market as I'm on the opposite side of the Atlantic, as an ownership proposition, I would recommend the CJ over the -52. It was designed to be field serviceable where the -52 was intended to be returned to the factory regularly for what amounted to a full rebuild. The CJ is still in production so parts are easier to get hold of for the CJ, either from China directly or from the likes of Doug Sapp. >From a flying point of view, the CJ is a primary trainer so has pretty viceless handling. It can bite but it's less critical than the -52. The -52 was designed as an aerobatic machine so has a significantly faster roll rate and climbs significantly better (assuming the CJ is stock). It can fly the full Aresti catalogue although it's a bit like doing it in a tractor. In short, if you want to fly gentleman's/warbird aeros and tour, get the CJ. If you want to rearrange your internal organs with some negative G, buy the -52. -------- CJ and Yak-52 owner Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=483648#483648 ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 11:39:52 AM PST US From: "Dr. Herbert Coussons" Subject: Re: Yak-List: Yak 52 updated wing spar is a must? Didnt Sergei over stress a wing at Sun n Fun back about a decade ago? I remember some report when he was added to my insurance back then for flying at OSH in my plane. > On Oct 5, 2018, at 10:49 AM, Anthony Savarese wrote: > > > There has never been a wing failure in a Yak 52. EVER! Including before SBs 59 and 60 were installed and the airplane was then de-rated to +5 -3Gs without the 2 SBs. > 500 hours on an M14 is minimal. Unless the engine is installed on an unlimited aerobatic aircraft like a Sukhoi 26 etc. where they are operated at only two speeds....wide open throttle and idle. > Dennis > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Oct 5, 2018, at 10:34 AM, motoadve wrote: >> >> >> Still looking for a plane , see some Yak 52s and prices are quite a bit lower than CJ6, Would you buy a Yak 52 without the updated wing spar? >> >> Has there been cases of wing separation? >> >> How many hrs are too many hrs on this kind of engines? >> >> Is 500hrs a lot? >> >> >> >> >> Read this topic online here: >> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=483614#483614 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > > > ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 12:52:32 PM PST US From: Roger Kemp Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: Buying a CJ6 or Yak 52, what to look for? You can measure rod throw at TDC for each cylinder. I have forgotten the allowable difference for the M14. It is in the TOs. Richard Goode has quoted it before. Doc Sent from my iPad > On Oct 6, 2018, at 12:48 PM, motoadve wrote: > > > Its a bit of a lottery, if the previous owner didnt do the starting procedure correctly then a rod could be bent and its not possible to tell. > > The ones I am looking, one of the CJ 6 has been owned for 17 years by same guy and engine has 400hrs, I guess if he didnt do the proper procedure it would have been damaged by now. Compression tests in the 70s all cylinder at last inspection. > > Although a bad rod wont affect compressions. > > Any signs at what to look for that can show some signs of a bent rod? > > Also is the year important? I looked at a 1972, and a 1983, both about same time on the engine and paint, 1983 plane has 1,000 less total time, owner wants $5,000 more than the one from 1972, and does not include parachutes. > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=483647#483647 > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 05:46:38 PM PST US From: Greg Wrobel Subject: Re: Yak-List: Buying a CJ6 or Yak 52, what to look for? CJ6. Gentleman Acro YAK Climbs better with bigger engine CJ6 flies faster on smaller engine and less fuel. CJ6 bigger fuel tanks. Better for Cross Country . Speed, Endurance, Comfort YAK smaller cockpit. YAK no Avionics Bay to work behind panel. CJ6 Big cargo compartment for tools, parts, suitcases, extra scuba tank for more emmergency on the road air. YAK. Nada CJ6 Many Access panels on outside of aircraft for inspection and maintenance. YAK. Stand on you head from cockpits CJ6 Still in production and flown in 8-10 countries. Parts available CJ6 Did I mention faster, more fuel on board and burning less gas? (Auto Fuel 83 ethenol free)! CJ6 Super Cool gull wings. YAK Hard core acro. CJ6 Flush Rivited. Faster and easy to wax. YAK maybe looks more hard military. YAK & CJ6 Many parts shared. CJ6 Main gear retracts completely with wheel well covers. Nose protrutes slightly. YAK All gear protrudes. Great for great up landings with brakes! CJ6 Trailing link main gear. Super smooth carrier landings. YAK straight gear struts. Brace yourself mama. YAK typically cheaper to buy. CJ6 typically cheaper to fly. Look for smoke system, auto spark plugs conversion, elevator spar reinforcement, parachute, jack's, engine and tail stands, spare parts, spare engine (new or used), how's the canopys, radio equipment,fuel computer, autopilot, headsets, etc etc. It all adds into the price. Good Luck Determine your primary mission and buy for your primary mission. .. On Wed, Oct 3, 2018, 20:39 motoadve wrote: > > New to this airplanes, love warbirds and they look fun. > 2,000hr bush pilot here. > > So what are the main items to look when buying either a Yak or CJ6? > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=483587#483587 > > ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 06:16:53 PM PST US From: William Geipel Subject: Re: Yak-List: Buying a CJ6 or Yak 52, what to look for? Wax? What? > On Oct 6, 2018, at 18:45, Greg Wrobel wrote: > > CJ6. Gentleman Acro > YAK Climbs better with bigger engine > CJ6 flies faster on smaller engine and less fuel. > CJ6 bigger fuel tanks. Better for Cross Country . Speed, Endurance, Comfort > YAK smaller cockpit. > YAK no Avionics Bay to work behind panel. > CJ6 Big cargo compartment for tools, parts, suitcases, extra scuba tank for more emmergency on the road air. > YAK. Nada > CJ6 Many Access panels on outside of aircraft for inspection and maintenance. > YAK. Stand on you head from cockpits > CJ6 Still in production and flown in 8-10 countries. Parts available > CJ6 Did I mention faster, more fuel on board and burning less gas? (Auto Fuel 83 ethenol free)! > CJ6 Super Cool gull wings. > YAK Hard core acro. > CJ6 Flush Rivited. Faster and easy to wax. > YAK maybe looks more hard military. > YAK & CJ6 Many parts shared. > CJ6 Main gear retracts completely with wheel well covers. Nose protrutes slightly. > YAK All gear protrudes. Great for great up landings with brakes! > CJ6 Trailing link main gear. Super smooth carrier landings. > YAK straight gear struts. Brace yourself mama. > YAK typically cheaper to buy. > CJ6 typically cheaper to fly. > > Look for smoke system, auto spark plugs conversion, elevator spar reinforcement, parachute, jack's, engine and tail stands, spare parts, spare engine (new or used), how's the canopys, radio equipment,fuel computer, autopilot, headsets, etc etc. It all adds into the price. > > Good Luck > > Determine your primary mission and buy for your primary mission. > > > > > > . > > > On Wed, Oct 3, 2018, 20:39 motoadve > wrote: > > > New to this airplanes, love warbirds and they look fun. > 2,000hr bush pilot here. > > So what are the main items to look when buying either a Yak or CJ6? > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=483587#483587 > > > > > > > ========== > List" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List > ========== > FORUMS - > eferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com > ========== > WIKI - > errer noreferrer" target="_blank">http://wiki.matronics.com > ========== > b Site - > -Matt Dralle, List Admin. > rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution > ========== > > > ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 06:50:49 PM PST US Subject: Yak-List: Re: Buying a CJ6 or Yak 52, what to look for? From: "motoadve" Ok almost closing the deal on a CJ6. 400 hrs engine IRAN, last inspection Dec 2017 all compressions in the 70s Great paint stock engine stainless exhaust, smoke system 2 parachutes, large baggage intake drains Intercom Transponder No spin oil filter (This is the very first mod I would like to do(Where do I buy it?) No auto spark plugs Deal will include my checkout in the airplane. I have a friend who is an A&P who will inspect it tomorrow, and if he said its ok I will fly it next week and buy it. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=483667#483667 ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 07:18:43 PM PST US From: John Warwick Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: Buying a CJ6 or Yak 52, what to look for? Congrats!! Hope the deal goes down ok Click this link to find RPA members near your zip code http://flyredstar.org/ziplookup.php Fly often and be safe. Cheers John On Sat, Oct 6, 2018 at 3:56 PM motoadve wrote: > > Ok almost closing the deal on a CJ6. > 400 hrs engine IRAN, last inspection Dec 2017 all compressions in the 70s > Great paint > stock engine > stainless exhaust, > smoke system > 2 parachutes, > large baggage > intake drains > Intercom > Transponder > > No spin oil filter (This is the very first mod I would like to do(Where do > I buy it?) > > No auto spark plugs > > Deal will include my checkout in the airplane. > I have a friend who is an A&P who will inspect it tomorrow, and if he said > its ok I will fly it next week and buy it. > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=483667#483667 > > > -- www.theyakcollection.com 619 933-2571 ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 07:46:02 PM PST US Subject: Yak-List: Re: CJ6 Housai Mixture adjustment From: "stephen.hayne" Harv wrote: > Good morning > > With all this talk of mixture setting..... > > Has anyone changed the (by turning the screw in the carb body located behind the wire locked plug) setting on their HS6 Housai engine? > > My CJ6 has low CHT temps in the climb (at max continuous power) and also low oil temps and I'm sure its running slightly too rich and guzzling fuel. > > Is there's a proper procedure for set-up, or is it a case of leaning off half a turn and then see how that affects things? > > Rgs > Harv I have a slightly rich burning Housai, and would like to know more about the carb setup/tuning procedure - anyone??? -------- - Dr. Stephen C. Hayne, Professor, CIS, Colorado State University 666CJA http://selfsynchronize.com/hayne/plane/cj6.asp Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=483669#483669 ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 08:24:35 PM PST US From: JON Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: Buying a CJ6 or Yak 52, what to look for? --- MIME Errors - No Plain-Text Section Found --- A message with no text/plain MIME section was received. The entire body of the message was removed. Please resend the email using Plain Text formatting. HOTMAIL is notorious for only including an HTML section in their client's default configuration. 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