Today's Message Index:
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1. 02:54 AM - Re: Re: Aircraft purchase, payment and delivery question (\)
2. 04:27 AM - Re: Re: Aircraft purchase, payment and delivery question (Bitterlich, Mark G CIV NAVAIR, WD)
3. 04:54 AM - Re: Aircraft purchase, payment and delivery question (Junkhead)
4. 05:03 AM - Re: Aircraft purchase, payment and delivery question (Junkhead)
5. 05:19 AM - Re: Re: Aircraft purchase, payment and delivery question (Mark Pennington)
6. 06:05 AM - Re: Aircraft purchase, payment and delivery question (Junkhead)
7. 08:05 AM - Re: CJ Starting (motoadve)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Aircraft purchase, payment and delivery question |
And so what happens if the buyer changes his mind on the arrival of the air
plane? =C2-Will he pay ALL the expenses for the returned flight? =C2-Ji
m "Pappy" Goolsby
-----Original Message-----
From: Stephen Jones <727gs@att.net>
Sent: Mon, Oct 22, 2018 11:54 pm
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: Aircraft purchase, payment and delivery question
I disagree. Buy it delivered to your ramp. That=99s what I=99ve
done with my last five airplanes. The last check is waiting when the airpl
ane is delivered in an airworthy condition.
If the seller won=99t agree to that, find another. I certainly don
=99t mind covering their expenses but I=99ve seen the =9Ccom
e and get it=9D adventure go poorly many times.
Steve
15 airplanes and counting.......
--------------------------------------------
On Mon, 10/22/18, Bill Geipel <l129bs@gmail.com> wrote:
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: Aircraft purchase, payment and delivery question
Geipel <l129bs@gmail.com>
You go inspect it, fly it, whatever.
Agree to buy, pay the money, shake hands and fly it home.
You can hire him or whomever to deliver it but it is yours.
Anything can happen on the trip home; spark plugs, mags, air
compressor, engine, air leak, tire etc. They leak oil, are
you going to make him fix a normal oil leak because you see
a stream down one side? That is normal. Maybe you want a new
airplane with a warranty? These are old, imported, fun,
labor intensive airplanes. Not for the faint of heart. But a
blast to fly. Requires TLC by the bucket load. That is part
of the adventure.
Just buy it and welcome to the group!
Lots of expert advice available on this site.
Sent from my iPad
> On Oct 23, 2018, at 11:27 AM,
Junkhead <Junkheademail@gmail.com>
wrote:
>
"Junkhead" <Junkheademail@gmail.com>
>
> You=99re right, that=99s one way
to do it. Obviously, that=99s an option that I am concerned,
however, I=99m looking for the other ways, such as FOB
destination Where the funds are sent to him prior to
delivery but the actual ownership is not transferred until
arrival at the destination. Or, an escrow account, where the
funds are released once the aircraft arrives safely at its
destination. I=99m just trying to figure out how people drew
up those deals.
>
> SAM
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=483965#483965
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
The Yak-List Email Forum -
Navigator to browse
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=C2- =C2-=C2- - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
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=C2- =C2- -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
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=C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Aircraft purchase, payment and delivery question |
I just sold an airplane, and just for the sake of conversation, I was one of the
folks that refused to deliver it. More than a half a dozen folks wanted it
delivered to California (I live on the East Coast). None of them were willing
to put a serious deposit on the aircraft. They wanted the "Pre-Buy" inspection
to be done in California.
When you added up the flight costs of the aircraft per hour, a ferry pilot to and
from (they were willing to pay the price to bring it to them, but not the price
to fly it back if they decided not to purchase it) hotel and meal costs,
this was much more than a First Class Round Trip airline ticket to me and back.
So I refused to do that and instead asked them to come here, fly the airplane over
the course of a few days and get checked out in it (I pay that), and also
do a pre-buy here. I also threw in a truckload of spare parts, and oh... a spare
engine.
So while I agree that it is much better to have your airplane delivered to your
door where you can then say: "Oh no thanks I changed my mind", you better be
willing to pay seriously for that option because I personally was having none
of it. Too many tire kickers and weird folks out there.
Just the other side of the coin.
Mark
________________________________
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com]
on behalf of Stephen Jones [727gs@att.net]
Sent: Monday, October 22, 2018 11:52 PM
Subject: [Non-DoD Source] Re: Yak-List: Re: Aircraft purchase, payment and delivery
question
I disagree. Buy it delivered to your ramp. Thats what Ive done with my last five
airplanes. The last check is waiting when the airplane is delivered in an airworthy
condition.
If the seller wont agree to that, find another. I certainly dont mind covering
their expenses but Ive seen the come and get it adventure go poorly many times.
Steve
15 airplanes and counting.......
--------------------------------------------
On Mon, 10/22/18, Bill Geipel <l129bs@gmail.com> wrote:
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: Aircraft purchase, payment and delivery question
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Date: Monday, October 22, 2018, 9:42 PM
Geipel <l129bs@gmail.com>
You go inspect it, fly it, whatever.
Agree to buy, pay the money, shake hands and fly it home.
You can hire him or whomever to deliver it but it is yours.
Anything can happen on the trip home; spark plugs, mags, air
compressor, engine, air leak, tire etc. They leak oil, are
you going to make him fix a normal oil leak because you see
a stream down one side? That is normal. Maybe you want a new
airplane with a warranty? These are old, imported, fun,
labor intensive airplanes. Not for the faint of heart. But a
blast to fly. Requires TLC by the bucket load. That is part
of the adventure.
Just buy it and welcome to the group!
Lots of expert advice available on this site.
Sent from my iPad
> On Oct 23, 2018, at 11:27 AM,
Junkhead <Junkheademail@gmail.com>
wrote:
>
"Junkhead" <Junkheademail@gmail.com>
>
> Youre right, thats one way
to do it. Obviously, thats an option that I am concerned,
however, Im looking for the other ways, such as FOB
destination Where the funds are sent to him prior to
delivery but the actual ownership is not transferred until
arrival at the destination. Or, an escrow account, where the
funds are released once the aircraft arrives safely at its
destination. Im just trying to figure out how people drew
up those deals.
>
> SAM
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=483965#483965
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
The Yak-List Email Forum -
Navigator to browse
List Un/Subscription,
7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ,
- MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
via the Web Forums!
- NEW MATRONICS LIST WIKI -
Email List Wiki!
- List Contribution Web Site -
support!
-Matt Dralle, List Admin.
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Aircraft purchase, payment and delivery question |
Yep. Just write it in the contract and make all or part of the deposit non-refundable.
Also, write in the contract very specific terms which the buyer has the
right to turn down the aircraft. For example, you couldnt refuse the aircraft
for any aesthetic reason on the exterior or interior or any non-disclosed issue
with a cost of over a certain mutually agreed upon amount is the responsibility
of the buyer, such as a gauge failure. Lastly, you could have certain items
still covered by the buyer during delivery such as a blown tire.
As the previous gentleman said, they need TLC and things happen. So both parties
need to be covered. I have not owned an airplane. However, I have purchased
many classic cars that need to be restored or were listed as restored. Owners
would never disclose everything and you always found a bunch of surprise issues.
I understand that this will happen and cannot be prevented and Im OK with
that. I just want them to be a little more honest and make sure they dont leave
you stranded in a city somewhere with an engine or system that needs completely
overhauled.
I dont know how this process normally works and I am not saying how to do it. I
am simply asking for guidance from all of you.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=483981#483981
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Aircraft purchase, payment and delivery question |
I agree with you 100%. I would not agree to those terms either. I think you were
more than fair.
mark.bitterlich(at)navy.m wrote:
> I just sold an airplane, and just for the sake of conversation, I was one of
the folks that refused to deliver it. More than a half a dozen folks wanted it
delivered to California (I live on the East Coast). None of them were willing
to put a serious deposit on the aircraft. They wanted the "Pre-Buy" inspection
to be done in California.
>
>
>
> When you added up the flight costs of the aircraft per hour, a ferry pilot to
and from (they were willing to pay the price to bring it to them, but not the
price to fly it back if they decided not to purchase it) hotel and meal costs,
this was much more than a First Class Round Trip airline ticket to me and back.
>
>
>
> So I refused to do that and instead asked them to come here, fly the airplane
over the course of a few days and get checked out in it (I pay that), and also
do a pre-buy here. I also threw in a truckload of spare parts, and oh... a
spare engine.
>
>
>
> So while I agree that it is much better to have your airplane delivered to your
door where you can then say: "Oh no thanks I changed my mind", you better be
willing to pay seriously for that option because I personally was having none
of it. Too many tire kickers and weird folks out there.
>
>
>
> Just the other side of the coin.
>
>
>
> Mark
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com]
on behalf of Stephen Jones [727gs@att.net]
> Sent: Monday, October 22, 2018 11:52 PM
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Subject: [Non-DoD Source] Re: Re: Aircraft purchase, payment and delivery question
>
>
>
> I disagree. Buy it delivered to your ramp. Thats what Ive done with my last five
airplanes. The last check is waiting when the airplane is delivered in an
airworthy condition.
> If the seller wont agree to that, find another. I certainly dont mind covering
their expenses but Ive seen the come and get it adventure go poorly many times.
>
> Steve
> 15 airplanes and counting.......
> --------------------------------------------
> On Mon, 10/22/18, Bill Geipel wrote:
>
> Subject: Re: Re: Aircraft purchase, payment and delivery question
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Date: Monday, October 22, 2018, 9:42 PM
>
>
> Geipel
>
> You go inspect it, fly it, whatever.
> Agree to buy, pay the money, shake hands and fly it home.
> You can hire him or whomever to deliver it but it is yours.
> Anything can happen on the trip home; spark plugs, mags, air
> compressor, engine, air leak, tire etc. They leak oil, are
> you going to make him fix a normal oil leak because you see
> a stream down one side? That is normal. Maybe you want a new
> airplane with a warranty? These are old, imported, fun,
> labor intensive airplanes. Not for the faint of heart. But a
> blast to fly. Requires TLC by the bucket load. That is part
> of the adventure.
> Just buy it and welcome to the group!
> Lots of expert advice available on this site.
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> > On Oct 23, 2018, at 11:27 AM,
> Junkhead
> wrote:
> >
> >
> "Junkhead"
> >
> > Youre right, thats one way
> to do it. Obviously, thats an option that I am concerned,
> however, Im looking for the other ways, such as FOB
> destination Where the funds are sent to him prior to
> delivery but the actual ownership is not transferred until
> arrival at the destination. Or, an escrow account, where the
> funds are released once the aircraft arrives safely at its
> destination. Im just trying to figure out how people drew
> up those deals.
> >
> > SAM
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Read this topic online here:
> >
> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=483965#483965
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> The Yak-List Email Forum -
> Navigator to browse
> List Un/Subscription,
> 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ,
> - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
> via the Web Forums!
> - NEW MATRONICS LIST WIKI -
> Email List Wiki!
> - List Contribution Web Site -
> support!
>
> -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=483982#483982
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Aircraft purchase, payment and delivery question |
I completed this process successfully two years ago. It was my first
airplane and I knew I wanted a big motor CJ.
There was one in Utah for sale and I went to Vegas on business and took a
day hop up to Salt Lake City and met the owner, and Barry Hancock who was
taking care of the airplane. We flew that day, I liked the plane and we
came to an agreement for purchase.
The agreement was completed and I went back to Utah in August, I went
through type training / basic maintenance with Barry and as part of his
service he was my GIB for the flight from Utah to Virginia. I wouldn't
trade that cross country in my new plane for much of anything. It was a
great way to learn the aircraft and see how it performed in all the
situations we flew through. In August lots of pop up storms and clouds and
we had to avoid weather etc. Between the type training in Utah and the
trouble free cross country flight home, I really felt confident to continue
to learn the plane on my own and asking lots of questions of the folks here
at Yak-List.
If you are serious about getting into one of these planes Yak or CJ. Get
all of the experience you can as early as you can from someone with a lot
of hours in the cockpit. I took advantage of the fact that my insurance
broker knew Barry and so did the company that insured me then and today.
After type training with Barry and an email from him letting the insurance
broker I was good to go I had coverage that day.
That's how it went for me and I couldn't have been more happy.
Just one success story. I am sure there are plenty of horror stories.
Mark Pennington
N621CJ
Richmond VA
On Tue, Oct 23, 2018 at 8:00 AM Junkhead <Junkheademail@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Yep. Just write it in the contract and make all or part of the deposit
> non-refundable. Also, write in the contract very specific terms which the
> buyer has the right to turn down the aircraft. For example, you couldn
=99t
> refuse the aircraft for any aesthetic reason on the exterior or interior
or
> any non-disclosed issue with a cost of over a certain mutually agreed upo
n
> amount is the responsibility of the buyer, such as a gauge failure. Lastl
y,
> you could have certain items still covered by the buyer during delivery
> such as a blown tire.
>
> As the previous gentleman said, they need TLC and things happen. So both
> parties need to be covered. I have not owned an airplane. However, I have
> purchased many classic cars that need to be restored or were listed as
> restored. Owners would never disclose everything and you always found a
> bunch of surprise issues. I understand that this will happen and cannot b
e
> prevented and I=99m OK with that. I just want them to be a little m
ore honest
> and make sure they don=99t leave you stranded in a city somewhere w
ith an
> engine or system that needs completely overhauled.
>
> I don=99t know how this process normally works and I am not saying
how to do
> it. I am simply asking for guidance from all of you.
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=483981#483981
>
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
===========
>
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Aircraft purchase, payment and delivery question |
I originally wanted to do something like that but I just had shoulder surgery.
Originally, my plan was to fly it back with my son that just received his commercial
multi-engine rating. It was to be a father and son cross country multi-day
trip. Unfortunately, I will now be out of the cockpit a few more months.
It sounds like you had a great experience and I am so glad it worked out for you
that way.
SAM
[quote="pennington.construction.i"]I completed this process successfully two years
ago. It was my first airplane and I knew I wanted a big motor CJ.
There was one in Utah for sale and I went to Vegas on business and took a day hop
up to Salt Lake City and met the owner, and Barry Hancock who was taking care
of the airplane. We flew that day, I liked the plane and we came to an agreement
for purchase.
The agreement was completed and I went back to Utah in August, I went through type
training / basic maintenance with Barry and as part of his service he was
my GIB for the flight from Utah to Virginia. I wouldn't trade that cross country
in my new plane for much of anything. It was a great way to learn the aircraft
and see how it performed in all the situations we flew through. In August
lots of pop up storms and clouds and we had to avoid weather etc. Between the
type training in Utah and the trouble free cross country flight home, I really
felt confident to continue to learn the plane on my own and asking lots of questions
of the folks here at Yak-List.
If you are serious about getting into one of these planes Yak or CJ. Get all of
the experience you can as early as you can from someone with a lot of hours in
the cockpit. I took advantage of the fact that my insurance broker knew Barry
and so did the company that insured me then and today. After type training with
Barry and an email from him letting the insurance broker I was good to go
I had coverage that day.
That's how it went for me and I couldn't have been more happy.
Just one success story. I am sure there are plenty of horror stories.
Mark Pennington
N621CJ
Richmond VA
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=483984#483984
Message 7
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Seems to be the procedure the previous owner showed me,works.
What about starts when engine is warm?
Stop to put fuel or restaurant?
No primming? one or two shots?
--------
www.Backcuountry182.com
Cessna 182 P
CJ -6
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=483987#483987
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