---------------------------------------------------------- Yak-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Mon 07/29/19: 7 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 02:46 AM - Re: Re: 25W-60 vs 20W-50 for the Housai? (\) 2. 04:47 AM - Re: Re: 25W-60 vs 20W-50 for the Housai? (JEREMY KEYES) 3. 06:07 AM - Re: Re: 25W-60 vs 20W-50 for the Housai? (Richard Goode) 4. 06:23 AM - Re: Re: 25W-60 vs 20W-50 for the Housai? (Richard Hess) 5. 07:31 AM - Re: Re: 25W-60 vs 20W-50 for the Housai? (Justin Drafts) 6. 11:47 AM - Re: Re: 25W-60 vs 20W-50 for the Housai? (Walter Lannon) 7. 08:51 PM - Re: Re: 25W-60 vs 20W-50 for the Housai? (Royden Heays) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 02:46:14 AM PST US From: "\"" Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: 25W-60 vs 20W-50 for the Housai? I used Aeroshell 100 Plus year around in my M-14 with regular changes at 40 hours.=C2- Each time I used a multi-grade I got oil leaks.=C2- I found on opening my engine (top over hauls to zero overhauls) the inside looked and was fairly clean.=C2- Might note though, with the exception of OSH tr ips, I flew mostly in the Florida skies.=C2- Plus most of the time I'd cr uise at 1780 rpm and 26" manifold pressure.=C2-Jim "Pappy" Goolsby -----Original Message----- From: Walter Lannon Sent: Sun, Jul 28, 2019 9:29 pm Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: 25W-60 vs 20W-50 for the Housai? I see no problem with X/C 25W60 year round.=C2- That is the advantage of a multi-grade.=C2- Just stay to hell away from Aeroshell=C2- semi-synthet ic W15W50. Walt -----Original Message----- From: Jon Boede Sent: Sunday, July 28, 2019 1:21 PM Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: 25W-60 vs 20W-50 for the Housai? 25W50 in the winter, radial 120 in the summer. > On Jul 28, 2019, at 3:19 PM, Justin Drafts > wrote: > > Ok CJ6-ers, at least those of you with the Housai engines... > Which is your preferred oil, Phillips X/C 20W-50, or their 25W-60? > > (I've been using 20W-50 in Seattle w/o issues, but perhaps the 25W-60 is > better?) > > Thoughts, experiences? > > Justin > N280NC > --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus S - WIKI - - =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- -Matt Dralle, List Admin. ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 04:47:59 AM PST US From: JEREMY KEYES Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: 25W-60 vs 20W-50 for the Housai? 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We feel strongly that these engines are not designed for modern multigrade oils, and whatever the nominal viscosity might be, they are definitely far thinner, particularly when hot, than mono-grade oils. And this definitely leads to oil leaks. Richard RICHARD GOODE AEROBATICS Rhodds Farm, Lyonshall, Hereford, HR5 3LW, UK Tel: +44 (0)1544 340120 Fax: +44 (0)1544 340129 e-mail: richard.goode@russianaeros.com www.russianaeros.com WORLD LEADERS IN RUSSIAN SPORTING AIRCRAFT & ENGINES In partnership with Aerometal Kft, Hungary. From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of JEREMY KEYES Sent: 29 July 2019 12:48 Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: 25W-60 vs 20W-50 for the Housai? We use the same Aeroshell 100 Plus in the CJ. After talking with a number of folks we decided to make the switch and it=99s seems to well. I have noticed less oil leaks as well but we also recently changed mechanics and did an extra through annual. On Jul 29, 2019, at 4:54 AM, "cjpilot710@aol.com " > wrote: I used Aeroshell 100 Plus year around in my M-14 with regular changes at 40 hours. Each time I used a multi-grade I got oil leaks. I found on opening my engine (top over hauls to zero overhauls) the inside looked and was fairly clean. Might note though, with the exception of OSH trips, I flew mostly in the Florida skies. Plus most of the time I'd cruise at 1780 rpm and 26" manifold pressure. Jim "Pappy" Goolsby -----Original Message----- From: Walter Lannon > Sent: Sun, Jul 28, 2019 9:29 pm Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: 25W-60 vs 20W-50 for the Housai? > I see no problem with X/C 25W60 year round. That is the advantage of a multi-grade. Just stay to hell away from Aeroshell semi-synthetic W15W50. Walt -----Original Message----- From: Jon Boede Sent: Sunday, July 28, 2019 1:21 PM Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: 25W-60 vs 20W-50 for the Housai? > 25W50 in the winter, radial 120 in the summer. > On Jul 28, 2019, at 3:19 PM, Justin Drafts > > wrote: > > Ok CJ6-ers, at least those of you with the Housai engines... > Which is your preferred oil, Phillips X/C 20W-50, or their 25W-60? > > (I've been using 20W-50 in Seattle w/o issues, but perhaps the 25W-60 is > better?) > > Thoughts, experiences? > > Justin > N280NC > --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 06:23:16 AM PST US From: Richard Hess Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: 25W-60 vs 20W-50 for the Housai? When Mongoose was brand new I tried both multi and mono grade. I=99ve u sed 100W for 16 years Richard Hess C 404-964-4885 > On Jul 29, 2019, at 8:58 AM, Richard Goode wrote: > > We feel strongly that these engines are not designed for modern multigrade oils, and whatever the nominal viscosity might be, they are definitely far t hinner, particularly when hot, than mono-grade oils. And this definitely lea ds to oil leaks. > > Richard > > > RICHARD GOODE AEROBATICS > Rhodds Farm, Lyonshall, Hereford, HR5 3LW, UK > Tel: +44 (0)1544 340120 Fax: +44 (0)1544 340129 > e-mail: richard.goode@russianaeros.com > www.russianaeros.com > WORLD LEADERS IN RUSSIAN SPORTING AIRCRAFT & ENGINES > In partnership with Aerometal Kft, Hungary. > > From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@ma tronics.com] On Behalf Of JEREMY KEYES > Sent: 29 July 2019 12:48 > To: yak-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: 25W-60 vs 20W-50 for the Housai? > > We use the same Aeroshell 100 Plus in the CJ. After talking with a number o f folks we decided to make the switch and it=99s seems to well. I have noticed less oil leaks as well but we also recently changed mechanics and d id an extra through annual. > > On Jul 29, 2019, at 4:54 AM, "cjpilot710@aol.com" wro te: > > I used Aeroshell 100 Plus year around in my M-14 with regular changes at 4 0 hours. Each time I used a multi-grade I got oil leaks. I found on openin g my engine (top over hauls to zero overhauls) the inside looked and was fai rly clean. Might note though, with the exception of OSH trips, I flew mostl y in the Florida skies. Plus most of the time I'd cruise at 1780 rpm and 26 " manifold pressure. > Jim "Pappy" Goolsby > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Walter Lannon > To: yak-list > Sent: Sun, Jul 28, 2019 9:29 pm > Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: 25W-60 vs 20W-50 for the Housai? > > > I see no problem with X/C 25W60 year round. That is the advantage of a > multi-grade. Just stay to hell away from Aeroshell semi-synthetic W15W50 .. > > Walt > > -----Original Message----- > From: Jon Boede > Sent: Sunday, July 28, 2019 1:21 PM > To: yak-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: 25W-60 vs 20W-50 for the Housai? > > > 25W50 in the winter, radial 120 in the summer. > > > On Jul 28, 2019, at 3:19 PM, Justin Drafts > > wrote: > > > > Ok CJ6-ers, at least those of you with the Housai engines... > > Which is your preferred oil, Phillips X/C 20W-50, or their 25W-60? > > > > (I've been using 20W-50 in Seattle w/o issues, but perhaps the 25W-60 is > > better?) > > > > Thoughts, experiences? > > > > Justin > > N280NC > > > > > > > --- > This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. > https://www.avast.com/antivirus > > > > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 07:31:52 AM PST US From: Justin Drafts Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: 25W-60 vs 20W-50 for the Housai? Good info, thanks gents! On Mon, Jul 29, 2019 at 6:03 AM Walter Lannon wrote: > > I see no problem with X/C 25W60 year round. That is the advantage of a > multi-grade. Just stay to hell away from Aeroshell semi-synthetic W15W50. > > Walt > > -----Original Message----- > From: Jon Boede > Sent: Sunday, July 28, 2019 1:21 PM > To: yak-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: 25W-60 vs 20W-50 for the Housai? > > > 25W50 in the winter, radial 120 in the summer. > > > On Jul 28, 2019, at 3:19 PM, Justin Drafts > > wrote: > > > > Ok CJ6-ers, at least those of you with the Housai engines... > > Which is your preferred oil, Phillips X/C 20W-50, or their 25W-60? > > > > (I've been using 20W-50 in Seattle w/o issues, but perhaps the 25W-60 is > > better?) > > > > Thoughts, experiences? > > > > Justin > > N280NC > > > > > --- > This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. > https://www.avast.com/antivirus > > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 11:47:19 AM PST US From: "Walter Lannon" Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: 25W-60 vs 20W-50 for the Housai? Hi Richard; You are quite likely referring here to automotive oils which are far too thin for use in any aircraft engine and, in any case, must never be used due to the potential for pre-ignition in an air-cooled engine. As far as I=99m aware there are are only two companies producing an approved aviation multi-grade oil (I=99m sure if there are more I will soon become aware!). They are Phillips with their X/C 20W50 and X/C 25W60 (Radial) petroleum based oil and Aeroshell with their semi-synthetic W15W50. I=99m sure if you go to the above companies websites you will find a description of how a multi-grade works in service. It is not quite as you describe. You are describing a non multi-grade oil which is far thinner when hot. The multi-grade is far thinner when cold (first viscosity number). With increasing temperature the multi-grade does not get =9Cthicker=9D as some postulate but will get thinner at a greatly reduced rate compared to a non multi oil with the result being the second viscosity number is reached at the operating temperature for both oils. If you could view this on a graph you would see the non multi viscosity reducing sharply with increasing temperature while the multi-grade gets there in virtually a straight line. I believe the X/C 25W60 is a good choice for the M14P if you want the convenience but no better than a seasonal change from 100 to 120 AD oils. With the exception of the above Aeroshell product I can pretty much guarantee the leakage problem has little or nothing to do with the choice of oil. Best; Walt From: Richard Goode Sent: Monday, July 29, 2019 5:58 AM Subject: RE: Yak-List: Re: 25W-60 vs 20W-50 for the Housai? We feel strongly that these engines are not designed for modern multigrade oils, and whatever the nominal viscosity might be, they are definitely far thinner, particularly when hot, than mono-grade oils. And this definitely leads to oil leaks. Richard RICHARD GOODE AEROBATICS Rhodds Farm, Lyonshall, Hereford, HR5 3LW, UK Tel: +44 (0)1544 340120 Fax: +44 (0)1544 340129 e-mail: richard.goode@russianaeros.com www.russianaeros.com WORLD LEADERS IN RUSSIAN SPORTING AIRCRAFT & ENGINES In partnership with Aerometal Kft, Hungary. From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of JEREMY KEYES Sent: 29 July 2019 12:48 Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: 25W-60 vs 20W-50 for the Housai? We use the same Aeroshell 100 Plus in the CJ. After talking with a number of folks we decided to make the switch and it=99s seems to well. I have noticed less oil leaks as well but we also recently changed mechanics and did an extra through annual. On Jul 29, 2019, at 4:54 AM, "cjpilot710@aol.com" wrote: I used Aeroshell 100 Plus year around in my M-14 with regular changes at 40 hours. Each time I used a multi-grade I got oil leaks. I found on opening my engine (top over hauls to zero overhauls) the inside looked and was fairly clean. Might note though, with the exception of OSH trips, I flew mostly in the Florida skies. Plus most of the time I'd cruise at 1780 rpm and 26" manifold pressure. Jim "Pappy" Goolsby -----Original Message----- From: Walter Lannon To: yak-list Sent: Sun, Jul 28, 2019 9:29 pm Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: 25W-60 vs 20W-50 for the Housai? I see no problem with X/C 25W60 year round. That is the advantage of a multi-grade. Just stay to hell away from Aeroshell semi-synthetic W15W50. Walt -----Original Message----- From: Jon Boede Sent: Sunday, July 28, 2019 1:21 PM To: yak-list@matronics.com Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: 25W-60 vs 20W-50 for the Housai? 25W50 in the winter, radial 120 in the summer. > On Jul 28, 2019, at 3:19 PM, Justin Drafts > wrote: > > Ok CJ6-ers, at least those of you with the Housai engines... > Which is your preferred oil, Phillips X/C 20W-50, or their 25W-60? > > (I've been using 20W-50 in Seattle w/o issues, but perhaps the 25W-60 is > better?) > > Thoughts, experiences? > > Justin > N280NC > --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 08:51:53 PM PST US From: "Royden Heays" Subject: RE: Yak-List: Re: 25W-60 vs 20W-50 for the Housai? Ladies & Gents Jill has on several occasions given her views on this list on the use of Aeroshell W100 vs Philips 25W60 in the M14P engines. She comes down on the side of Aeroshell with good reasons given. Try and search on the list to see her previous posts. That was before Shell launched the Plus version, which by all accounts now obviates the need for supplementing Aeroshell W100 with CamGuard. Jill=99s W100 recommendation extends to W80 and W120, depending on the season and your location. Jill, do you have anything to add or correct? Regards Royden From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Walter Lannon Sent: Monday, July 29, 2019 11:47 AM Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: 25W-60 vs 20W-50 for the Housai? Hi Richard; You are quite likely referring here to automotive oils which are far too thin for use in any aircraft engine and, in any case, must never be used due to the potential for pre-ignition in an air-cooled engine. As far as I=99m aware there are are only two companies producing an approved aviation multi-grade oil (I=99m sure if there are more I will soon become aware!). They are Phillips with their X/C 20W50 and X/C 25W60 (Radial) petroleum based oil and Aeroshell with their semi-synthetic W15W50. I=99m sure if you go to the above companies websites you will find a description of how a multi-grade works in service. It is not quite as you describe. You are describing a non multi-grade oil which is far thinner when hot. The multi-grade is far thinner when cold (first viscosity number). With increasing temperature the multi-grade does not get =9Cthicker=9D as some postulate but will get thinner at a greatly reduced rate compared to a non multi oil with the result being the second viscosity number is reached at the operating temperature for both oils. If you could view this on a graph you would see the non multi viscosity reducing sharply with increasing temperature while the multi-grade gets there in virtually a straight line. I believe the X/C 25W60 is a good choice for the M14P if you want the convenience but no better than a seasonal change from 100 to 120 AD oils. With the exception of the above Aeroshell product I can pretty much guarantee the leakage problem has little or nothing to do with the choice of oil. Best; Walt From: Richard Goode Sent: Monday, July 29, 2019 5:58 AM Subject: RE: Yak-List: Re: 25W-60 vs 20W-50 for the Housai? We feel strongly that these engines are not designed for modern multigrade oils, and whatever the nominal viscosity might be, they are definitely far thinner, particularly when hot, than mono-grade oils. And this definitely leads to oil leaks. Richard RICHARD GOODE AEROBATICS Rhodds Farm, Lyonshall, Hereford, HR5 3LW, UK Tel: +44 (0)1544 340120 Fax: +44 (0)1544 340129 e-mail: richard.goode@russianaeros.com www.russianaeros.com WORLD LEADERS IN RUSSIAN SPORTING AIRCRAFT & ENGINES In partnership with Aerometal Kft, Hungary. From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of JEREMY KEYES Sent: 29 July 2019 12:48 Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: 25W-60 vs 20W-50 for the Housai? We use the same Aeroshell 100 Plus in the CJ. After talking with a number of folks we decided to make the switch and it=99s seems to well. I have noticed less oil leaks as well but we also recently changed mechanics and did an extra through annual. On Jul 29, 2019, at 4:54 AM, "cjpilot710@aol.com " > wrote: I used Aeroshell 100 Plus year around in my M-14 with regular changes at 40 hours. Each time I used a multi-grade I got oil leaks. I found on opening my engine (top over hauls to zero overhauls) the inside looked and was fairly clean. Might note though, with the exception of OSH trips, I flew mostly in the Florida skies. Plus most of the time I'd cruise at 1780 rpm and 26" manifold pressure. Jim "Pappy" Goolsby -----Original Message----- From: Walter Lannon > Sent: Sun, Jul 28, 2019 9:29 pm Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: 25W-60 vs 20W-50 for the Housai? > I see no problem with X/C 25W60 year round. That is the advantage of a multi-grade. Just stay to hell away from Aeroshell semi-synthetic W15W50. Walt -----Original Message----- From: Jon Boede Sent: Sunday, July 28, 2019 1:21 PM Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: 25W-60 vs 20W-50 for the Housai? > 25W50 in the winter, radial 120 in the summer. > On Jul 28, 2019, at 3:19 PM, Justin Drafts > > wrote: > > Ok CJ6-ers, at least those of you with the Housai engines... > Which is your preferred oil, Phillips X/C 20W-50, or their 25W-60? > > (I've been using 20W-50 in Seattle w/o issues, but perhaps the 25W-60 is > better?) > > Thoughts, experiences? > > Justin > N280NC > --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus Virus-free. www.avast.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message yak-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Yak-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/yak-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/yak-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.