Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 08:08 AM - Re: Re: 25W-60 vs 20W-50 for the Housai? (Richard Goode)
2. 09:36 AM - Re: Russian Air Fitting (Marcemmanuel)
3. 12:56 PM - Re: Re: Russian Air Fitting (BILL TILEY)
4. 01:38 PM - Re: Re: Russian Air Fitting (A. Dennis Savarese)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: 25W-60 vs 20W-50 for the Housai? |
I don't disagree with anything that Mark says, but would briefly say:
The Russians never used the oil dilution systems in Yaks for all sorts
of good reasons and typically they were disconnected as soon as the
aircraft were delivered to flying clubs!
My experience working with Vedenyeev was some time ago, and of course
oils have improved since then. But the point of their research was that
W 120 was definitely thicker/more viscous at high temperature than a 20
W-60 W. multigrade. Possibly that is not true with current generation of
oils.
Anyone who does not have a manifold oil drain system in one of these
engines, particularly a tail-dragger is seriously chancing the health of
their engine!
Richard
RICHARD GOODE AEROBATICS
Rhodds Farm, Lyonshall, Hereford, HR5 3LW, UK
Tel: +44 (0)1544 340120 Fax: +44 (0)1544 340129
e-mail: richard.goode@russianaeros.com
<mailto:richard.goode@russianaeros.com>
<http://www.russianaeros.com> www.russianaeros.com
WORLD LEADERS IN RUSSIAN SPORTING AIRCRAFT & ENGINES
In partnership with Aerometal Kft, Hungary.
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mark
Bitterlich
Sent: 15 August 2019 20:12
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Re: 25W-60 vs 20W-50 for the Housai?
Hello Richard. As you are aware, I typically consider anything you say
or recommend regarding =9Canything Russian=9D to be above
reproach and generally =9Cgospel=9D. But in regards to this
topic I have to respectfully disagree.
You said: =9Ctheir real problem was that these multi-grades are
significantly thinner than single grades when very hot=9D. I do
not know what specific oil the Russians ran their tests on, but oil
weight, or viscosity, refers to how thick or thin the oil is and the
temperature requirements set for oil by the Society of Automotive
Engineers (SAE) is 0 degrees F (low) and 210 degrees F (high).
Oils meeting the SAE's low temperature requirements have a "W" after the
viscosity rating (example: 10W), and oils that meet the high ratings
have no letter (example SAE 30). An oil is rated for viscosity by
heating it to a specified temperature, and then allowing it to flow out
of a specifically sized hole. Its viscosity rating is determined by the
length of time it takes to flow out of the hole. If it flows quickly, it
gets a low rating. If it flows slowly, it gets a high rating.
Since oil generally gets thinner when heated, and thicker when cooled,
the multi-viscosity oils were introduced. These oils meet SAE
specifications for the low temperature requirements of a light oil and
the high temperature requirements of a heavy oil. This is the best of
both worlds and is accomplished by using special additives to increase
viscosity with an increase in temperature.
Next, I would like to point out that M-14 equipped Russian aircraft
typically came stock with an oil dilution system, where raw fuel was
pumped into the oil system prior to shutdown in cold weather to
massively reduce viscosity on the next cold engine start. This is a
highly effective but somewhat dangerous procedure that relies on a lot
of variables and I don=99t know anyone that recommends it, but
clearly it was included due to the lack of multi-grade oil available at
the time, and also because it has been a standard method since before
WW-II.
Also of significance is that a single weight oil used in a M-14 equipped
tail dragger tends to collect oil in the lower intake tubes. This oil
will *NOT* be eliminated by pulling the prop through. Without really
extensive pre-heating, this =9Cslug=9D of oil remains a
real hazard to hydraulic lock when starting in really cold conditions.
If the owner has intake drain tubes, and primes the daylight out of the
engine and fuel does NOT run out the intake drain kit, do NOT attempt to
start it! You would rolling the dice.
So bottom line, I have used Phillips 20W-60W Radial Engine Oil, for
close to 800 hours in my M-14P equipped Yak-50. It does not leak oil,
it still has good compression, and it does not build up in the intake
tubes anywhere near what a single grade oil will do in cold weather. So,
while I respect Russian testing, I=99d like to see their specific
results, regarding what oil they tested and how. Since I realize those
documents are probably impossible to publish, I=99ll just offer
that there is nothing wrong with multi-viscosity oils and they are
specifically formulated to not get thinner at high temperature, and in
fact are tested to meet specific standards as not to do that. My 2
cents, in this case about $1 worth.
Mark
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
<mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com>
<owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
<mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com> > On Behalf Of Richard
Goode
Sent: Thursday, August 15, 2019 2:14 PM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Re: 25W-60 vs 20W-50 for the Housai?
I have little experience of the Chinese engine, but I have no reason to
think that its oil requirements would be significantly different to the
M 14 family from Russia. And I did spend a lot of time in Voronezh with
the design team of Vedenyeev many years ago, and they were strongly of
the view that multigrade oils were not appropriate for their engines.
Importantly, they had done quite a lot of testing, and in those days
they had the funds to do that. Of course these oils are relatively thin
when cold, which is good, but of course the Russians tend to pre-heat
and indeed say that preheating is necessary below +5=C2=B0C anyway.
Then, unlike cars, these engines do not get started frequently for short
trips when cold.
But their real problem was that these multi-grades are significantly
thinner than single grades when very hot, and they felt did not give
appropriate lubrication. And also, as I know multigrade users have
realised, tend to leak.
Richard
RICHARD GOODE AEROBATICS
Rhodds Farm, Lyonshall, Hereford, HR5 3LW, UK
Tel: +44 (0)1544 340120 Fax: +44 (0)1544 340129
e-mail: richard.goode@russianaeros.com
<mailto:richard.goode@russianaeros.com>
<http://www.russianaeros.com> www.russianaeros.com
WORLD LEADERS IN RUSSIAN SPORTING AIRCRAFT & ENGINES
In partnership with Aerometal Kft, Hungary.
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
<mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com>
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Justin Drafts
Sent: 15 August 2019 17:20
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: 25W-60 vs 20W-50 for the Housai?
Ya thanks all, ran my CJ yesterday with the new batch of 25W-60, all
seems fine.
Justin
N280NC
On Mon, Aug 12, 2019, 3:37 AM JL2A
<info@flyingwarbirds.com.au.matronics.com
<mailto:info@flyingwarbirds.com.au.matronics.com> > wrote:
<info@flyingwarbirds.com.au.matronics.com
<mailto:info@flyingwarbirds.com.au.matronics.com> >
I've gone through nearly 200 gallons of X/C 25W-60 in the last 4 years.
Seems good to me.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=490805#490805
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Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Russian Air Fitting |
Hi
anybody has the AN references for nipples and nuts we can use to retrofit the air
system with 1/4 tube?
thank you so much.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=490903#490903
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/nipple_214.jpeg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/nipple_194.jpeg
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Russian Air Fitting |
Call Hose Power.
520-623-0531
They have the correct fitting.
Sent from my iPhone
> On Aug 16, 2019, at 9:35 AM, Marcemmanuel <mvallee@hotmail.fr> wrote:
>
>
> Hi
> anybody has the AN references for nipples and nuts we can use to retrofit the
air system with 1/4 tube?
> thank you so much.
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=490903#490903
>
>
>
>
> Attachments:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/nipple_214.jpeg
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/nipple_194.jpeg
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Russian Air Fitting |
You have to reuse the Russian/Chinese B-Nuts and use an AN4 sleeves for th
e flare on the 1/4" tubing.https://www.speedwaymotors.com/Aluminum-Tube-Nut
-Sleeve-4-AN-1-4-,34350.html
Doug usually has B-nuts for sale if you mess one up.Dennis
On Friday, August 16, 2019, 12:38:18 PM EDT, Marcemmanuel <mvallee@hotm
ail.fr> wrote:
Hi
anybody has the AN references for nipples and nuts we can use to retrofit t
he air system with 1/4 tube?
thank you so much.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=490903#490903
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/nipple_214.jpeg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/nipple_194.jpeg
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