Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 01:02 AM - Re: Not charging much air in flight (Richard Romaine)
2. 01:15 AM - Re: Not charging much air in flight (Jon Boede)
3. 05:06 AM - Re: Re: Not charging much air in flight (Mark Pennington)
4. 05:08 AM - Re: Re: Not charging much air in flight (Anthony Savarese)
5. 05:16 AM - Re: Re: Not charging much air in flight (Mark Pennington)
6. 05:18 AM - Re: Re: Not charging much air in flight (Robert Graves)
7. 05:25 AM - Re: Re: Not charging much air in flight (A. Dennis Savarese)
8. 05:28 AM - Re: Re: Not charging much air in flight (Hank Gibson)
9. 05:31 AM - Re: Re: Not charging much air in flight (Mark Pennington)
10. 05:36 AM - Re: Re: Not charging much air in flight (A. Dennis Savarese)
11. 05:44 AM - Re: Re: Not charging much air in flight (Warren Hill)
12. 03:32 PM - Re: Not charging much air in flight (AlaskaChang801)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Not charging much air in flight |
Holding system air pressure for days with main valve closed can be achieved by
those especially pious, for most it only occurs on odd leap years. A leak down
in minutes means what you did at last annual didnt solve all the problems. Before
chasing anything else, Id start with what you know is a problem...flap system.
Things that rarely get exercised will get pissed off when disturbed after
a long rest (like at annual when you cycle rarely used items) if youve isolated
rear cockpit flap valve as a leak source after verifying same leak whether
rear flap valve up/down/neutral you might get lucky and clear some grit with
enough valve cycles. If not, try a new valve or remove valve and cap the rear
valve lines.
A little soapy solution on snot valve overboard discharge while system is pressurized
will tell you if that is leaking.
If theres still residual leaks after solving these, Id next soap every connection,
valve nipple and line disturbed when you changed things at annual...and sometimes,
even new replacement items leak.
Cheers, Rich
Sent from my iPhone
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Not charging much air in flight |
Id also add that these planes are of an age and distance in time from their maintenance
by the military that pinhole leaks in random portions of the tubing are
starting to pop up far more often than, say, 20 years ago.
I dont believe that the tubing of the pneumatic system has a per-se life limit,
but its neither perfect nor forever-lasting.
> On Dec 30, 2019, at 3:07 AM, Richard Romaine <romaine_richard@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
> Holding system air pressure for days with main valve closed can be achieved by
those especially pious, for most it only occurs on odd leap years. A leak down
in minutes means what you did at last annual didnt solve all the problems.
Before chasing anything else, Id start with what you know is a problem...flap
system. Things that rarely get exercised will get pissed off when disturbed
after a long rest (like at annual when you cycle rarely used items) if youve isolated
rear cockpit flap valve as a leak source after verifying same leak whether
rear flap valve up/down/neutral you might get lucky and clear some grit with
enough valve cycles. If not, try a new valve or remove valve and cap the
rear valve lines.
>
> A little soapy solution on snot valve overboard discharge while system is pressurized
will tell you if that is leaking.
>
> If theres still residual leaks after solving these, Id next soap every connection,
valve nipple and line disturbed when you changed things at annual...and
sometimes, even new replacement items leak.
>
> Cheers, Rich
>
>
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>
>
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Not charging much air in flight |
That valve swap looks like the way to go.
You don=99t have record of the part number for that valve handy do yo
u. ?
Mark
On Sun, Dec 29, 2019 at 9:00 PM AlaskaChang801 <themilnes95@gmail.com>
wrote:
>
> I've been dealing with a similar issue, on mine. I can charge to 50 ATMs
> and go fly and the compressor can't put the air back to anything higher
> than about 38 ATMs so I'm thinking I'm dealing with a tiny leak in the UP
> side somewhere. Haven't been flying for over a month due to waiting on
> parts, but I'm going to try and follow advice given on another Red Star
> site to soak the felt filter on the top of the compressor and see if it
> helps seal the rings. If it does, then I'm looking at a weak compressor.
If
> not then it'll be leak detection time.
>
> As for the snot valves. Mine started to become harder to open as they
> gunned up and finally started to not seal properly when closed. So I
> replaced mine with swagelok 1/4 turn stainless ball valves..SO MUCH NICER
!!
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=494098#494098
>
>
> Attachments:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_0318_180.jpg
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_0318_265.jpg
>
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
===========
===========
>
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Not charging much air in flight |
You replaced the snot valve with a swagelok? Or do you mean the main air valve.
Removing, disassembling and flushing out the snot bottle fixes many not charging
to the break over preset pressure of the pop off/ pressure relief valve problems.
Dennis
Sent from my iPhone
> On Dec 29, 2019, at 8:58 PM, AlaskaChang801 <themilnes95@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> I've been dealing with a similar issue, on mine. I can charge to 50 ATMs and
go fly and the compressor can't put the air back to anything higher than about
38 ATMs so I'm thinking I'm dealing with a tiny leak in the UP side somewhere.
Haven't been flying for over a month due to waiting on parts, but I'm going
to try and follow advice given on another Red Star site to soak the felt filter
on the top of the compressor and see if it helps seal the rings. If it does,
then I'm looking at a weak compressor. If not then it'll be leak detection time.
>
> As for the snot valves. Mine started to become harder to open as they gunned
up and finally started to not seal properly when closed. So I replaced mine with
swagelok 1/4 turn stainless ball valves..SO MUCH NICER!!
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=494098#494098
>
>
>
>
> Attachments:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_0318_180.jpg
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_0318_265.jpg
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Not charging much air in flight |
Dennis.
He replaced the valve on the snot valve.
Take a peek at the attached picture.
Looks pretty clean.
Mark.
On Mon, Dec 30, 2019 at 8:12 AM Anthony Savarese <
dsavarese0812@bellsouth.net> wrote:
> dsavarese0812@bellsouth.net>
>
> You replaced the =9Csnot=9D valve with a swagelok? Or do you
mean the main
> air valve.
>
> Removing, disassembling and flushing out the snot bottle fixes many
=9Cnot
> charging =9C to the break over preset pressure of the pop off/ pres
sure
> relief valve problems.
>
> Dennis
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On Dec 29, 2019, at 8:58 PM, AlaskaChang801 <themilnes95@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >
gmail.com
> >
> >
> > I've been dealing with a similar issue, on mine. I can charge to 50 ATM
s
> and go fly and the compressor can't put the air back to anything higher
> than about 38 ATMs so I'm thinking I'm dealing with a tiny leak in the UP
> side somewhere. Haven't been flying for over a month due to waiting on
> parts, but I'm going to try and follow advice given on another Red Star
> site to soak the felt filter on the top of the compressor and see if it
> helps seal the rings. If it does, then I'm looking at a weak compressor.
If
> not then it'll be leak detection time.
> >
> > As for the snot valves. Mine started to become harder to open as they
> gunned up and finally started to not seal properly when closed. So I
> replaced mine with swagelok 1/4 turn stainless ball valves..SO MUCH NICER
!!
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Read this topic online here:
> >
> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=494098#494098
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Attachments:
> >
> > http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_0318_180.jpg
> > http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_0318_265.jpg
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
===========
===========
>
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Not charging much air in flight |
Dont forget the banjo fitting. It can get gummed up and also be loose. And easy
check.
Bob Graves
Sent from my iPhone
> On Dec 29, 2019, at 10:26 AM, motoadve <larry@motoadventuring.com> wrote:
>
>
> Thanks for your detailed reply.
> Last annual (first to me) we replaced all the air valves.
>
> I fly it often, 2 or 3 times per week, last flight was 4 days ago, temps about
the same, high 40s.
>
> Nothing was changed since last flight
> Lately the snot valve has been very hard to open.
> Surprisingly after this flight was easy to open (maybe because not much air was
left?) when I opened it had a lot less pressure than usual.
>
> Have had an air leak in the rear flap lever, after I close the main air tank,
it looses air quick, 15 minutes and its gone, its been like this since I bought
the plane.
>
> Main air tank is holding air.
>
> --------
> www.Backcountry182.com
> Cessna 182 P
> CJ -6
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=494090#494090
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Not charging much air in flight |
Yes, that does look very clean.=C2- I missed the pictures.=C2- However
, that does not change my comment about removing and flushing out the shot
bottle.Dennis
On Monday, December 30, 2019, 8:18:10 AM EST, Mark Pennington <penningt
on.construction.inc.1@gmail.com> wrote:
Dennis.=C2-
He replaced the valve on the snot valve. =C2-
Take a peek at the attached picture. =C2-
Looks pretty clean.=C2-Mark. =C2-
On Mon, Dec 30, 2019 at 8:12 AM Anthony Savarese <dsavarese0812@bellsouth.n
et> wrote:
et>
You replaced the =9Csnot=9D valve with a swagelok?=C2- Or do
you mean the main air valve.
Removing, disassembling and flushing out the snot bottle fixes many
=9Cnot charging =9C to the break over preset pressure of the pop off/
pressure relief valve problems.
Dennis
Sent from my iPhone
> On Dec 29, 2019, at 8:58 PM, AlaskaChang801 <themilnes95@gmail.com> wrote
:
>
ail.com>
>
> I've been dealing with a similar issue, on mine. I can charge to 50 ATMs
and go fly and the compressor can't put the air back to anything higher tha
n about 38 ATMs so I'm thinking I'm dealing with a tiny leak in the UP side
somewhere. Haven't been flying for over a month due to waiting on parts, b
ut I'm going to try and follow advice given on another Red Star site to soa
k the felt filter on the top of the compressor and see if it helps seal the
rings. If it does, then I'm looking at a weak compressor. If not then it'l
l be leak detection time.
>
> As for the snot valves. Mine started to become harder to open as they gun
ned up and finally started to not seal properly when closed. So I replaced
mine with swagelok 1/4 turn stainless ball valves..SO MUCH NICER!!
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=494098#494098
>
>
>
>
> Attachments:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_0318_180.jpg
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_0318_265.jpg
>
>
>
>
>
>
br>fts!)
r>>rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contributi
on
=C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
List" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigat
or?Yak-List
FORUMS -
eferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com
WIKI -
errer" target="_blank">http://wiki.matronics.com
b Site -
=C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Not charging much air in flight |
Your snot valve sealing brass =9Ccone=9D may have a ring worn in
to it which prevents a proper seal and will always leak once it=99s li
ke this. Swagelok replacement valve is the answer and can also do the Main a
nd Emerg valves and check valves on the firewall as well. Guaranteed to fix
majority of pneumatic issues. Isolate and/removing of the rear gear and fl
ap valves will solve the rest...see pic below.
Good luck- Hoot
Sent from my iPhone
> On Dec 30, 2019, at 8:17 AM, Anthony Savarese <dsavarese0812@bellsouth.net
> wrote:
>
ellsouth.net>
>
> You replaced the =9Csnot=9D valve with a swagelok? Or do you m
ean the main air valve.
>
> Removing, disassembling and flushing out the snot bottle fixes many
=9Cnot charging =9C to the break over preset pressure of the pop off/ p
ressure relief valve problems.
>
> Dennis
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On Dec 29, 2019, at 8:58 PM, AlaskaChang801 <themilnes95@gmail.com> wrote
:
>>
ail.com>
>>
>> I've been dealing with a similar issue, on mine. I can charge to 50 ATMs a
nd go fly and the compressor can't put the air back to anything higher than a
bout 38 ATMs so I'm thinking I'm dealing with a tiny leak in the UP side som
ewhere. Haven't been flying for over a month due to waiting on parts, but I'
m going to try and follow advice given on another Red Star site to soak the f
elt filter on the top of the compressor and see if it helps seal the rings. I
f it does, then I'm looking at a weak compressor. If not then it'll be leak d
etection time.
>>
>> As for the snot valves. Mine started to become harder to open as they gun
ned up and finally started to not seal properly when closed. So I replaced m
ine with swagelok 1/4 turn stainless ball valves..SO MUCH NICER!!
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=494098#494098
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Attachments:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_0318_180.jpg
>> http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_0318_265.jpg
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
==========================
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==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
>
>
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Not charging much air in flight |
You are correct.
My system ran better after soaking my snot valve in AV gas. Per your
instruction
Mark
On Mon, Dec 30, 2019 at 8:28 AM A. Dennis Savarese <
dsavarese0812@bellsouth.net> wrote:
> Yes, that does look very clean. I missed the pictures. However, that
> does not change my comment about removing and flushing out the shot bottl
e.
> Dennis
>
> On Monday, December 30, 2019, 8:18:10 AM EST, Mark Pennington <
> pennington.construction.inc.1@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> Dennis.
>
> He replaced the valve on the snot valve.
>
> Take a peek at the attached picture.
>
> Looks pretty clean.
> Mark.
>
>
> On Mon, Dec 30, 2019 at 8:12 AM Anthony Savarese <
> dsavarese0812@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>
> dsavarese0812@bellsouth.net>
>
> You replaced the =9Csnot=9D valve with a swagelok? Or do you
mean the main
> air valve.
>
> Removing, disassembling and flushing out the snot bottle fixes many
=9Cnot
> charging =9C to the break over preset pressure of the pop off/ pres
sure
> relief valve problems.
>
> Dennis
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On Dec 29, 2019, at 8:58 PM, AlaskaChang801 <themilnes95@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >
gmail.com
> >
> >
> > I've been dealing with a similar issue, on mine. I can charge to 50 ATM
s
> and go fly and the compressor can't put the air back to anything higher
> than about 38 ATMs so I'm thinking I'm dealing with a tiny leak in the UP
> side somewhere. Haven't been flying for over a month due to waiting on
> parts, but I'm going to try and follow advice given on another Red Star
> site to soak the felt filter on the top of the compressor and see if it
> helps seal the rings. If it does, then I'm looking at a weak compressor.
If
> not then it'll be leak detection time.
> >
> > As for the snot valves. Mine started to become harder to open as they
> gunned up and finally started to not seal properly when closed. So I
> replaced mine with swagelok 1/4 turn stainless ball valves..SO MUCH NICER
!!
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Read this topic online here:
> >
> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=494098#494098
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Attachments:
> >
> > http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_0318_180.jpg
> > http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_0318_265.jpg
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> ==========
> br> fts!)
> r> > rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">
> http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
> ==========
> List" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
> ==========
> FORUMS -
> eferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com
> ==========
> WIKI -
> errer" target="_blank">http://wiki.matronics.com
> ==========
> b Site -
> -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
> rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contributio
n
> ==========
>
>
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Not charging much air in flight |
On Monday, December 30, 2019, 8:33:12 AM EST, Mark Pennington <penningt
on.construction.inc.1@gmail.com> wrote:
You are correct. =C2-My system ran better after soaking my snot valve in
AV gas.=C2- Per your instruction
Mark
On Mon, Dec 30, 2019 at 8:28 AM A. Dennis Savarese <dsavarese0812@bellsouth
.net> wrote:
Yes, that does look very clean.=C2- I missed the pictures.=C2- However
, that does not change my comment about removing and flushing out the shot
bottle.Dennis
On Monday, December 30, 2019, 8:18:10 AM EST, Mark Pennington <penningt
on.construction.inc.1@gmail.com> wrote:
Dennis.=C2-
He replaced the valve on the snot valve. =C2-
Take a peek at the attached picture. =C2-
Looks pretty clean.=C2-Mark. =C2-
On Mon, Dec 30, 2019 at 8:12 AM Anthony Savarese <dsavarese0812@bellsouth.n
et> wrote:
et>
You replaced the =9Csnot=9D valve with a swagelok?=C2- Or do
you mean the main air valve.
Removing, disassembling and flushing out the snot bottle fixes many
=9Cnot charging =9C to the break over preset pressure of the pop off/
pressure relief valve problems.
Dennis
Sent from my iPhone
> On Dec 29, 2019, at 8:58 PM, AlaskaChang801 <themilnes95@gmail.com> wrote
:
>
ail.com>
>
> I've been dealing with a similar issue, on mine. I can charge to 50 ATMs
and go fly and the compressor can't put the air back to anything higher tha
n about 38 ATMs so I'm thinking I'm dealing with a tiny leak in the UP side
somewhere. Haven't been flying for over a month due to waiting on parts, b
ut I'm going to try and follow advice given on another Red Star site to soa
k the felt filter on the top of the compressor and see if it helps seal the
rings. If it does, then I'm looking at a weak compressor. If not then it'l
l be leak detection time.
>
> As for the snot valves. Mine started to become harder to open as they gun
ned up and finally started to not seal properly when closed. So I replaced
mine with swagelok 1/4 turn stainless ball valves..SO MUCH NICER!!
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=494098#494098
>
>
>
>
> Attachments:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_0318_180.jpg
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_0318_265.jpg
>
>
>
>
>
>
br>fts!)
r>>rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contributi
on
=C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
List" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigat
or?Yak-List
FORUMS -
eferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com
WIKI -
errer" target="_blank">http://wiki.matronics.com
b Site -
=C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Not charging much air in flight |
Bob makes a good point. Carbon buildup on the compressor output
piston/banjo fitting may be overlooked. Attached is an image. Also, one
of the several aluminum crush washers between the components of this
fitting may fail. Had this happen on the way home from an event several
years ago and it mimicked a low output compressor. The pneumatic system
for the CJ has seemingly countless failure points. For other types of
leaks, if an ultrasonic detector fails to find the problem, sometimes we
just have to start at one end and work our way back until the source is
found. Another argument in favor of replacing the dynamic parts of the
pneumatic system at regular intervals.
Warren Hill
N464TW
Mesa, AZ
> On Dec 30, 2019, at 6:17 AM, Robert Graves <flibob@att.net> wrote:
>
>
> Don=99t forget the banjo fitting. It can get gummed up and also
be loose. And easy check.
>
> Bob Graves
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On Dec 29, 2019, at 10:26 AM, motoadve <larry@motoadventuring.com>
wrote:
>>
<larry@motoadventuring.com>
>>
>> Thanks for your detailed reply.
>> Last annual (first to me) we replaced all the air valves.
>>
>> I fly it often, 2 or 3 times per week, last flight was 4 days ago,
temps about the same, high 40s.
>>
>> Nothing was changed since last flight
>> Lately the snot valve has been very hard to open.
>> Surprisingly after this flight was easy to open (maybe because not
much air was left?) when I opened it had a lot less pressure than
usual.
>>
>> Have had an air leak in the rear flap lever, after I close the main
air tank, it looses air quick, 15 minutes and its gone, its been like
this since I bought the plane.
>>
>> Main air tank is holding air.
>>
>> --------
>> www.Backcountry182.com
>> Cessna 182 P
>> CJ -6
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=494090#494090
>>
>>
>>
>>
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Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Not charging much air in flight |
pennington.construction.i wrote:
> That valve swap looks like the way to go.
>
> You dont have record of the part number for that valve handy do you. ?
>
>
> Mark
>
> On Sun, Dec 29, 2019 at 9:00 PM AlaskaChang801 wrote:
>
>
> >
> > I've been dealing with a similar issue, on mine. I can charge to 50 ATMs and
go fly and the compressor can't put the air back to anything higher than about
38 ATMs so I'm thinking I'm dealing with a tiny leak in the UP side somewhere.
Haven't been flying for over a month due to waiting on parts, but I'm going
to try and follow advice given on another Red Star site to soak the felt filter
on the top of the compressor and see if it helps seal the rings. If it does,
then I'm looking at a weak compressor. If not then it'll be leak detection
time.
> >
> > As for the snot valves. Mine started to become harder to open as they gunned
up and finally started to not seal properly when closed. So I replaced mine
with swagelok 1/4 turn stainless ball valves..SO MUCH NICER!!
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Read this topic online here:
> >
> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=494098#494098 (http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=494098#494098)
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Attachments:
> >
> > http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_0318_180.jpg (http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_0318_180.jpg)
> > http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_0318_265.jpg (http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_0318_265.jpg)
> >
> >
> >
> > ==========
> > br> fts!)
> > r> > rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> > -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
> > ==========
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> > -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
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> > ==========
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
I replaced all my chinese valves to Swagelok. Mains, Emergency and Snots.
The snot valve is SS-43GM4-S4
They are not cheap, but the piece of mind that 1/4 turn stainless ball is not going
to leak is worth it. I don't have the other P/N's handy, but if you go that
path and want them I can dig them out. As for the other picture of the snot
valve seat..mine were worse than that and hence the reason for the replacement..
When you take them off you have them apart and thoroughly clean them out inside
and tap the snot body to accept the 1/4" NPT thread and apply a good coating
of pipe dope and don't over tighten or have the possibility of stripping it completely
out, but just like any other mod, slow and sure and don't use gorilla
force to tighten.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=494120#494120
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