Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:36 PM - Nose gear collapse (Flibob)
2. 01:09 PM - Re: Nose gear collapse (Mark Pennington)
3. 01:22 PM - Re: Nose gear collapse (Mark Pennington)
4. 02:44 PM - Re: Nose gear collapse (doug sapp)
5. 02:52 PM - Re: Nose gear collapse (A. Dennis Savarese)
6. 02:56 PM - Re: Nose gear collapse (Mark Pennington)
7. 04:13 PM - Re: Nose gear collapse (Robert Graves)
8. 04:48 PM - Re: Nose gear collapse (Mark Pennington)
9. 04:51 PM - Re: Nose gear collapse (Mark Pennington)
10. 06:28 PM - Re: Nose gear collapse (Robert Graves)
11. 08:08 PM - Re: Nose gear collapse (Tom Elliott)
12. 10:13 PM - Re: Nose gear collapse (Walter Lannon)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Nose gear collapse |
Nose gear collapse
So last Saturday working on a minor air leak at the nose gear selector. Decided
to do it outside in the warm spring sunshine. Ended up having to replace the
selector so emailed doug to get a new one and left the old selector out. When
I push the airplane back in the hanger as Ive done hundreds of times same hanger
the nose gear slowly collapsed onto the tug.
Why did this happen? My theory is that the open circuit on the gear circuit provided
no back pressure for the nose down side. But, I really dont know. I know
its over center to lock down. I would like to hear any ideas or theories.
Luckily just minor damage to the cowling and the fiberglass on the tug. But I
dont want to move the airplane again until I figure out why it happened.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=496246#496246
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Nose gear collapse |
Flibob
I am assuming that when you refer to the nose gear selector you are talking
about the nose gear actuator the extends and contracts the gear with air
pressure.
That actuator will hold the nose gear in the down position two ways.
One is with air pressure on the cylinder.
The second way is the locking balls in the actuator in the down position.
When the actuator is extended fully there are three balls that lock the
gear in the down position. I think it is three if I remember what Doug
taught me.
With no air on the actuator the gear will stay down with the balls in the
locked position. If for some reason the actuator was not fully extended
the balls did not lock, the upper and lower jack stays can collapse in the
absence of air pressure.
This is true of the main gear as well.
This is not true for the flap actuator. There are no balls in the flap
actuator.
The locking balls is what enables you to move the plane with the air off
and no pressure in the system.
I=99m not sure if the locking balls would hold the airplane up during
a
landing and no air pressure.
Doug would be able tell us that.
If I have mis quoted the system Doug let us know.
Mark Pennington
On Thu, May 7, 2020 at 3:41 PM Flibob <Flibob@att.net> wrote:
>
> Nose gear collapse
> So last Saturday working on a minor air leak at the nose gear selector.
> Decided to do it outside in the warm spring sunshine. Ended up having to
> replace the selector so emailed doug to get a new one and left the old
> selector out. When I push the airplane back in the hanger as I=99v
e done
> hundreds of times same hanger the nose gear slowly collapsed onto the tug
.
>
> Why did this happen? My theory is that the open circuit on the gear
> circuit provided no back pressure for the nose down side. But, I really
> don=99t know. I know it=99s over center to lock down. I woul
d like to hear any
> ideas or theories.
>
> Luckily just minor damage to the cowling and the fiberglass on the tug.
> But I don=99t want to move the airplane again until I figure out wh
y it
> happened.
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=496246#496246
>
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
===========
>
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Nose gear collapse |
Flibob
If you had the actuator out of the plane.
The upper and lower jacks stay being over center would not ensure the nose
gear would not collapse.
Mark Pennington.
On Thu, May 7, 2020 at 3:41 PM Flibob <Flibob@att.net> wrote:
>
> Nose gear collapse
> So last Saturday working on a minor air leak at the nose gear selector.
> Decided to do it outside in the warm spring sunshine. Ended up having to
> replace the selector so emailed doug to get a new one and left the old
> selector out. When I push the airplane back in the hanger as I=99v
e done
> hundreds of times same hanger the nose gear slowly collapsed onto the tug
.
>
> Why did this happen? My theory is that the open circuit on the gear
> circuit provided no back pressure for the nose down side. But, I really
> don=99t know. I know it=99s over center to lock down. I woul
d like to hear any
> ideas or theories.
>
> Luckily just minor damage to the cowling and the fiberglass on the tug.
> But I don=99t want to move the airplane again until I figure out wh
y it
> happened.
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=496246#496246
>
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
===========
>
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Nose gear collapse |
The locking balls will hold the aircraft in a 0 air situation if they are
in the locked position.
Mark is correct except there are 5 balls not 3. There is a joke here some
where................
Better every day.
Doug
On Thu, May 7, 2020 at 1:14 PM Mark Pennington <
pennington.construction.inc.1@gmail.com> wrote:
> Flibob
>
> I am assuming that when you refer to the nose gear selector you are
> talking about the nose gear actuator the extends and contracts the gear
> with air pressure.
>
> That actuator will hold the nose gear in the down position two ways.
>
> One is with air pressure on the cylinder.
>
> The second way is the locking balls in the actuator in the down position.
> When the actuator is extended fully there are three balls that lock the
> gear in the down position. I think it is three if I remember what Doug
> taught me.
>
> With no air on the actuator the gear will stay down with the balls in the
> locked position. If for some reason the actuator was not fully extended
> the balls did not lock, the upper and lower jack stays can collapse in t
he
> absence of air pressure.
>
> This is true of the main gear as well.
> This is not true for the flap actuator. There are no balls in the flap
> actuator.
>
> The locking balls is what enables you to move the plane with the air off
> and no pressure in the system.
>
> I=99m not sure if the locking balls would hold the airplane up duri
ng a
> landing and no air pressure.
>
> Doug would be able tell us that.
>
> If I have mis quoted the system Doug let us know.
>
> Mark Pennington
>
>
> On Thu, May 7, 2020 at 3:41 PM Flibob <Flibob@att.net> wrote:
>
>>
>> Nose gear collapse
>> So last Saturday working on a minor air leak at the nose gear selector.
>> Decided to do it outside in the warm spring sunshine. Ended up having to
>> replace the selector so emailed doug to get a new one and left the old
>> selector out. When I push the airplane back in the hanger as I=99
ve done
>> hundreds of times same hanger the nose gear slowly collapsed onto the tu
g.
>>
>> Why did this happen? My theory is that the open circuit on the gear
>> circuit provided no back pressure for the nose down side. But, I really
>> don=99t know. I know it=99s over center to lock down. I wou
ld like to hear any
>> ideas or theories.
>>
>> Luckily just minor damage to the cowling and the fiberglass on the tug.
>> But I don=99t want to move the airplane again until I figure out w
hy it
>> happened.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=496246#496246
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ==========
>> List" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">
>> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
>> ==========
>> FORUMS -
>> eferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com
>> ==========
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>> errer" target="_blank">http://wiki.matronics.com
>> ==========
>> b Site -
>> -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
>> rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contributi
on
>> ==========
>>
>>
>>
>>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Nose gear collapse |
Yep! There is.
"It takes more balls than you think to hold up that airplane!" :-)
A. Dennis Savarese
334-546-8182 (mobile)
www.yak-52.com
Skype - Yakguy1
On 5/7/2020 5:40 PM, doug sapp wrote:
> The locking balls willhold the aircraft in a 0 air situation if they
> are in the lockedposition.
> Mark is correct except there are 5 balls not 3. There is a joke here
> some where................
>
> Better every day.
> Doug
>
> On Thu, May 7, 2020 at 1:14 PM Mark Pennington
> <pennington.construction.inc.1@gmail.com
> <mailto:pennington.construction.inc.1@gmail.com>> wrote:
>
> Flibob
>
> I am assuming that when you refer to the nose gear selector you
> are talking about the nose gear actuator the extends and contracts
> the gear with air pressure.
>
> That actuator will hold the nose gear in the down position two ways.
>
> One is with air pressure on the cylinder.
>
> The second way is the locking balls in the actuator in the down
> position. When the actuator is extended fully there are three
> balls that lock the gear in the down position. I think it is
> three if I remember what Doug taught me.
>
> With no air on the actuator the gear will stay down with the balls
> in the locked position. If for some reason the actuator was not
> fully extended the balls did not lock, the upper and lower jack
> stays can collapse in the absence of air pressure.
>
> This is true of the main gear as well.
> This is not true for the flap actuator. There are no balls in the
> flap actuator.
>
> The locking balls is what enables you to move the plane with the
> air off and no pressure in the system.
>
> Im not sure if the locking balls would hold the airplane up
> during a landing and no air pressure.
>
> Doug would be able tell us that.
>
> If I have mis quoted the system Doug let us know.
>
> Mark Pennington
>
>
> On Thu, May 7, 2020 at 3:41 PM Flibob <Flibob@att.net
> <mailto:Flibob@att.net>> wrote:
>
> <mailto:Flibob@att.net>>
>
> Nose gear collapse
> So last Saturday working on a minor air leak at the nose gear
> selector. Decided to do it outside in the warm spring
> sunshine. Ended up having to replace the selector so emailed
> doug to get a new one and left the old selector out. When I
> push the airplane back in the hanger as Ive done hundreds of
> times same hanger the nose gear slowly collapsed onto the tug.
>
> Why did this happen? My theory is that the open circuit on the
> gear circuit provided no back pressure for the nose down side.
> But, I really dont know. I know its over center to lock
> down. I would like to hear any ideas or theories.
>
> Luckily just minor damage to the cowling and the fiberglass on
> the tug. But I dont want to move the airplane again until I
> figure out why it happened.
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=496246#496246
>
>
> ==========
> List" rel="noreferrer"
> target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
> ==========
> FORUMS -
> eferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com
> ==========
> WIKI -
> errer" target="_blank">http://wiki.matronics.com
> ==========
> b Site -
> -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
> rel="noreferrer"
> target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> ==========
>
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Nose gear collapse |
Doug
Will the balls in the locked position hold the aircraft up during a normal
landing with zero air. ?
Mark
On Thu, May 7, 2020 at 5:49 PM doug sapp <dougsappllc@gmail.com> wrote:
> The locking balls will hold the aircraft in a 0 air situation if they are
> in the locked position.
> Mark is correct except there are 5 balls not 3. There is a joke here som
e
> where................
>
> Better every day.
> Doug
>
> On Thu, May 7, 2020 at 1:14 PM Mark Pennington <
> pennington.construction.inc.1@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Flibob
>>
>> I am assuming that when you refer to the nose gear selector you are
>> talking about the nose gear actuator the extends and contracts the gear
>> with air pressure.
>>
>> That actuator will hold the nose gear in the down position two ways.
>>
>> One is with air pressure on the cylinder.
>>
>> The second way is the locking balls in the actuator in the down
>> position. When the actuator is extended fully there are three balls tha
t
>> lock the gear in the down position. I think it is three if I remember w
hat
>> Doug taught me.
>>
>> With no air on the actuator the gear will stay down with the balls in th
e
>> locked position. If for some reason the actuator was not fully extended
>> the balls did not lock, the upper and lower jack stays can collapse in
the
>> absence of air pressure.
>>
>> This is true of the main gear as well.
>> This is not true for the flap actuator. There are no balls in the flap
>> actuator.
>>
>> The locking balls is what enables you to move the plane with the air off
>> and no pressure in the system.
>>
>> I=99m not sure if the locking balls would hold the airplane up dur
ing a
>> landing and no air pressure.
>>
>> Doug would be able tell us that.
>>
>> If I have mis quoted the system Doug let us know.
>>
>> Mark Pennington
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, May 7, 2020 at 3:41 PM Flibob <Flibob@att.net> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Nose gear collapse
>>> So last Saturday working on a minor air leak at the nose gear selector.
>>> Decided to do it outside in the warm spring sunshine. Ended up having t
o
>>> replace the selector so emailed doug to get a new one and left the old
>>> selector out. When I push the airplane back in the hanger as I
=99ve done
>>> hundreds of times same hanger the nose gear slowly collapsed onto the t
ug.
>>>
>>> Why did this happen? My theory is that the open circuit on the gear
>>> circuit provided no back pressure for the nose down side. But, I really
>>> don=99t know. I know it=99s over center to lock down. I wo
uld like to hear any
>>> ideas or theories.
>>>
>>> Luckily just minor damage to the cowling and the fiberglass on the tug.
>>> But I don=99t want to move the airplane again until I figure out
why it
>>> happened.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Read this topic online here:
>>>
>>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=496246#496246
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ==========
>>> List" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">
>>> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
>>> ==========
>>> FORUMS -
>>> eferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com
>>> ==========
>>> WIKI -
>>> errer" target="_blank">http://wiki.matronics.com
>>> ==========
>>> b Site -
>>> -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
>>> rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribut
ion
>>> ==========
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Nose gear collapse |
So in the case we are talking about it would indicate a defective nose gear a
ctuator. Am I reading this correctly?
Sent from my iPhone
> On May 7, 2020, at 5:58 PM, Mark Pennington <pennington.construction.inc.1
@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> =EF=BB
> Doug
>
> Will the balls in the locked position hold the aircraft up during a normal
landing with zero air. ?
>
> Mark
>
>
>
>> On Thu, May 7, 2020 at 5:49 PM doug sapp <dougsappllc@gmail.com> wrote:
>> The locking balls will hold the aircraft in a 0 air situation if they are
in the locked position.
>> Mark is correct except there are 5 balls not 3. There is a joke here som
e where................
>>
>> Better every day.
>> Doug
>>
>>> On Thu, May 7, 2020 at 1:14 PM Mark Pennington <pennington.construction.
inc.1@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Flibob
>>>
>>> I am assuming that when you refer to the nose gear selector you are talk
ing about the nose gear actuator the extends and contracts the gear with air
pressure.
>>>
>>> That actuator will hold the nose gear in the down position two ways.
>>>
>>> One is with air pressure on the cylinder.
>>>
>>> The second way is the locking balls in the actuator in the down position
. When the actuator is extended fully there are three balls that lock the g
ear in the down position. I think it is three if I remember what Doug taugh
t me.
>>>
>>> With no air on the actuator the gear will stay down with the balls in th
e locked position. If for some reason the actuator was not fully extended t
he balls did not lock, the upper and lower jack stays can collapse in the a
bsence of air pressure.
>>>
>>> This is true of the main gear as well.
>>> This is not true for the flap actuator. There are no balls in the flap a
ctuator.
>>>
>>> The locking balls is what enables you to move the plane with the air off
and no pressure in the system.
>>>
>>> I=99m not sure if the locking balls would hold the airplane up dur
ing a landing and no air pressure.
>>>
>>> Doug would be able tell us that.
>>>
>>> If I have mis quoted the system Doug let us know.
>>>
>>> Mark Pennington
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> On Thu, May 7, 2020 at 3:41 PM Flibob <Flibob@att.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Nose gear collapse
>>>> So last Saturday working on a minor air leak at the nose gear selector.
Decided to do it outside in the warm spring sunshine. Ended up having to re
place the selector so emailed doug to get a new one and left the old selecto
r out. When I push the airplane back in the hanger as I=99ve done hun
dreds of times same hanger the nose gear slowly collapsed onto the tug.
>>>>
>>>> Why did this happen? My theory is that the open circuit on the gear cir
cuit provided no back pressure for the nose down side. But, I really don
=99t know. I know it=99s over center to lock down. I would like to he
ar any ideas or theories.
>>>>
>>>> Luckily just minor damage to the cowling and the fiberglass on the tug.
But I don=99t want to move the airplane again until I figure out why
it happened.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Read this topic online here:
>>>>
>>>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=496246#496246
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ==========
>>>> List" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Nav
igator?Yak-List
>>>> ==========
>>>> FORUMS -
>>>> eferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com
>>>> ==========
>>>> WIKI -
>>>> errer" target="_blank">http://wiki.matronics.com
>>>> ==========
>>>> b Site -
>>>> -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
>>>> rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribut
ion
>>>> ==========
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Nose gear collapse |
Mr Graves
>From reading the original post from Flibob. He was trouble shooting his
air leak and determined the NLG actuator needed to be replaced. He ordered
one from Doug and left the old one out of the plane. Leaving the NLG on
the ground with no actuator and only the upper and lower jack stay holding
the nose gear in place.
The upper and lower jack stays when installed correctly and the actuator
fully extended do settle into place over center. But this does not ensure
the front nose gear will not collapse with the upper and lower jack stays
only. If you are moving the airplane while the actuator is out and you hit
a bump or jog the airplane while moving it the upper and lower jack stay
could reverse and allow the nose gear to collapse.
Based on the original post I think the gear collapsed because the actuator
was not installed and the gentlemen moved the airplane. If this is
incorrect Flibob could give us more info.
Based on a guy I know named Doug. He told me anytime your working on the
landing gear. Have the plane on Jacks. The plane could collapse onto the
floor of the hangar and onto the person under it in the right conditions.
The only way the gear can not collapse while on the ground is to have full
pressure on the gear. And the other way is to ensure the 5 balls are
engaged with zero pressure on the landing gear system. To do this, in the
words of another CJ owner "whack the crap out of the incline brace struts
on the main gear and the upper and lower jack stays on the nose gear at
their pivot point using a 4x4".
It should not collapse. Do the "whack test" while on Jacks...
If I am incorrect in any of this please feel free to lend a hand and help
out with more information.
Mark Pennington
<https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_c
ampaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail&utm_term=icon>
Virus-free.
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On Thu, May 7, 2020 at 7:17 PM Robert Graves <flibob@att.net> wrote:
> So in the case we are talking about it would indicate a defective nose
> gear actuator. Am I reading this correctly?
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On May 7, 2020, at 5:58 PM, Mark Pennington <
> pennington.construction.inc.1@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> =EF=BB
> Doug
>
> Will the balls in the locked position hold the aircraft up during a norma
l
> landing with zero air. ?
>
> Mark
>
>
> On Thu, May 7, 2020 at 5:49 PM doug sapp <dougsappllc@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> The locking balls will hold the aircraft in a 0 air situation if they ar
e
>> in the locked position.
>> Mark is correct except there are 5 balls not 3. There is a joke here
>> some where................
>>
>> Better every day.
>> Doug
>>
>> On Thu, May 7, 2020 at 1:14 PM Mark Pennington <
>> pennington.construction.inc.1@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Flibob
>>>
>>> I am assuming that when you refer to the nose gear selector you are
>>> talking about the nose gear actuator the extends and contracts the gear
>>> with air pressure.
>>>
>>> That actuator will hold the nose gear in the down position two ways.
>>>
>>> One is with air pressure on the cylinder.
>>>
>>> The second way is the locking balls in the actuator in the down
>>> position. When the actuator is extended fully there are three balls th
at
>>> lock the gear in the down position. I think it is three if I remember
what
>>> Doug taught me.
>>>
>>> With no air on the actuator the gear will stay down with the balls in
>>> the locked position. If for some reason the actuator was not fully
>>> extended the balls did not lock, the upper and lower jack stays can
>>> collapse in the absence of air pressure.
>>>
>>> This is true of the main gear as well.
>>> This is not true for the flap actuator. There are no balls in the flap
>>> actuator.
>>>
>>> The locking balls is what enables you to move the plane with the air of
f
>>> and no pressure in the system.
>>>
>>> I=99m not sure if the locking balls would hold the airplane up du
ring a
>>> landing and no air pressure.
>>>
>>> Doug would be able tell us that.
>>>
>>> If I have mis quoted the system Doug let us know.
>>>
>>> Mark Pennington
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, May 7, 2020 at 3:41 PM Flibob <Flibob@att.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Nose gear collapse
>>>> So last Saturday working on a minor air leak at the nose gear selector
.
>>>> Decided to do it outside in the warm spring sunshine. Ended up having
to
>>>> replace the selector so emailed doug to get a new one and left the old
>>>> selector out. When I push the airplane back in the hanger as I
=99ve done
>>>> hundreds of times same hanger the nose gear slowly collapsed onto the
tug.
>>>>
>>>> Why did this happen? My theory is that the open circuit on the gear
>>>> circuit provided no back pressure for the nose down side. But, I reall
y
>>>> don=99t know. I know it=99s over center to lock down. I w
ould like to hear any
>>>> ideas or theories.
>>>>
>>>> Luckily just minor damage to the cowling and the fiberglass on the
>>>> tug. But I don=99t want to move the airplane again until I figu
re out why it
>>>> happened.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Read this topic online here:
>>>>
>>>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=496246#496246
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ==========
>>>> List" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">
>>>> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
>>>> ==========
>>>> FORUMS -
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tion
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Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Nose gear collapse |
Yup. That=99s the joke. =F0=9F=91=8D
On Thu, May 7, 2020 at 5:56 PM A. Dennis Savarese <
dsavarese0812@bellsouth.net> wrote:
> dsavarese0812@bellsouth.net>
>
> Yep! There is.
>
> "It takes more balls than you think to hold up that airplane!" :-)
>
> A. Dennis Savarese
> 334-546-8182 (mobile)
> www.yak-52.com
> Skype - Yakguy1
>
> On 5/7/2020 5:40 PM, doug sapp wrote:
> > The locking balls will hold the aircraft in a 0 air situation if they
> > are in the locked position.
> > Mark is correct except there are 5 balls not 3. There is a joke here
> > some where................
> >
> > Better every day.
> > Doug
> >
> > On Thu, May 7, 2020 at 1:14 PM Mark Pennington
> > <pennington.construction.inc.1@gmail.com
> > <mailto:pennington.construction.inc.1@gmail.com>> wrote:
> >
> > Flibob
> >
> > I am assuming that when you refer to the nose gear selector you
> > are talking about the nose gear actuator the extends and contracts
> > the gear with air pressure.
> >
> > That actuator will hold the nose gear in the down position two ways
.
> >
> > One is with air pressure on the cylinder.
> >
> > The second way is the locking balls in the actuator in the down
> > position. When the actuator is extended fully there are three
> > balls that lock the gear in the down position. I think it is
> > three if I remember what Doug taught me.
> >
> > With no air on the actuator the gear will stay down with the balls
> > in the locked position. If for some reason the actuator was not
> > fully extended the balls did not lock, the upper and lower jack
> > stays can collapse in the absence of air pressure.
> >
> > This is true of the main gear as well.
> > This is not true for the flap actuator. There are no balls in the
> > flap actuator.
> >
> > The locking balls is what enables you to move the plane with the
> > air off and no pressure in the system.
> >
> > I=99m not sure if the locking balls would hold the airplane u
p
> > during a landing and no air pressure.
> >
> > Doug would be able tell us that.
> >
> > If I have mis quoted the system Doug let us know.
> >
> > Mark Pennington
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Thu, May 7, 2020 at 3:41 PM Flibob <Flibob@att.net
> > <mailto:Flibob@att.net>> wrote:
> >
> > <mailto:Flibob@att.net>>
> >
> > Nose gear collapse
> > So last Saturday working on a minor air leak at the nose gear
> > selector. Decided to do it outside in the warm spring
> > sunshine. Ended up having to replace the selector so emailed
> > doug to get a new one and left the old selector out. When I
> > push the airplane back in the hanger as I=99ve done hundr
eds of
> > times same hanger the nose gear slowly collapsed onto the tug.
> >
> > Why did this happen? My theory is that the open circuit on the
> > gear circuit provided no back pressure for the nose down side.
> > But, I really don=99t know. I know it=99s over cent
er to lock
> > down. I would like to hear any ideas or theories.
> >
> > Luckily just minor damage to the cowling and the fiberglass on
> > the tug. But I don=99t want to move the airplane again u
ntil I
> > figure out why it happened.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Read this topic online here:
> >
> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=496246#496246
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ==========
> > List" rel="noreferrer"
> > target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
> > ==========
> > FORUMS -
> > eferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com
> > ==========
> > WIKI -
> > errer" target="_blank">http://wiki.matronics.com
> > ==========
> > b Site -
> > -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
> > rel="noreferrer"
> > target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> > ==========
> >
> >
> >
>
>
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===========
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===========
>
>
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Nose gear collapse |
Mark, Thanks for all your help. My original message said I left out the lan
ding gear selector a better terminology would=99ve been the valve at t
he gear handle. The actuator was in the airplane at the time.
Sent from my iPhone
> On May 7, 2020, at 7:50 PM, Mark Pennington <pennington.construction.inc.1
@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> =EF=BB
> Mr Graves
>
> =46rom reading the original post from Flibob. He was trouble shooting his
air leak and determined the NLG actuator needed to be replaced. He ordered
one from Doug and left the old one out of the plane. Leaving the NLG on th
e ground with no actuator and only the upper and lower jack stay holding the
nose gear in place.
>
> The upper and lower jack stays when installed correctly and the actuator f
ully extended do settle into place over center. But this does not ensure th
e front nose gear will not collapse with the upper and lower jack stays only
. If you are moving the airplane while the actuator is out and you hit a bu
mp or jog the airplane while moving it the upper and lower jack stay could r
everse and allow the nose gear to collapse.
>
> Based on the original post I think the gear collapsed because the actuator
was not installed and the gentlemen moved the airplane. If this is incorr
ect Flibob could give us more info.
>
> Based on a guy I know named Doug. He told me anytime your working on the l
anding gear. Have the plane on Jacks. The plane could collapse onto the fl
oor of the hangar and onto the person under it in the right conditions. The
only way the gear can not collapse while on the ground is to have full pres
sure on the gear. And the other way is to ensure the 5 balls are engaged w
ith zero pressure on the landing gear system. To do this, in the words of a
nother CJ owner "whack the crap out of the incline brace struts on the main g
ear and the upper and lower jack stays on the nose gear at their pivot point
using a 4x4".
> It should not collapse. Do the "whack test" while on Jacks...
>
> If I am incorrect in any of this please feel free to lend a hand and help o
ut with more information.
>
> Mark Pennington
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Virus-free. www.avast.com
>
>> On Thu, May 7, 2020 at 7:17 PM Robert Graves <flibob@att.net> wrote:
>> So in the case we are talking about it would indicate a defective nose ge
ar actuator. Am I reading this correctly?
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>>>> On May 7, 2020, at 5:58 PM, Mark Pennington <pennington.construction.in
c.1@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>> =EF=BB
>>> Doug
>>>
>>> Will the balls in the locked position hold the aircraft up during a norm
al landing with zero air. ?
>>>
>>> Mark
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> On Thu, May 7, 2020 at 5:49 PM doug sapp <dougsappllc@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> The locking balls will hold the aircraft in a 0 air situation if they a
re in the locked position.
>>>> Mark is correct except there are 5 balls not 3. There is a joke here s
ome where................
>>>>
>>>> Better every day.
>>>> Doug
>>>>
>>>>> On Thu, May 7, 2020 at 1:14 PM Mark Pennington <pennington.constructio
n.inc.1@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> Flibob
>>>>>
>>>>> I am assuming that when you refer to the nose gear selector you are ta
lking about the nose gear actuator the extends and contracts the gear with a
ir pressure.
>>>>>
>>>>> That actuator will hold the nose gear in the down position two ways.
>>>>>
>>>>> One is with air pressure on the cylinder.
>>>>>
>>>>> The second way is the locking balls in the actuator in the down positi
on. When the actuator is extended fully there are three balls that lock the
gear in the down position. I think it is three if I remember what Doug tau
ght me.
>>>>>
>>>>> With no air on the actuator the gear will stay down with the balls in t
he locked position. If for some reason the actuator was not fully extended t
he balls did not lock, the upper and lower jack stays can collapse in the a
bsence of air pressure.
>>>>>
>>>>> This is true of the main gear as well.
>>>>> This is not true for the flap actuator. There are no balls in the fla
p actuator.
>>>>>
>>>>> The locking balls is what enables you to move the plane with the air o
ff and no pressure in the system.
>>>>>
>>>>> I=99m not sure if the locking balls would hold the airplane up d
uring a landing and no air pressure.
>>>>>
>>>>> Doug would be able tell us that.
>>>>>
>>>>> If I have mis quoted the system Doug let us know.
>>>>>
>>>>> Mark Pennington
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Thu, May 7, 2020 at 3:41 PM Flibob <Flibob@att.net> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Nose gear collapse
>>>>>> So last Saturday working on a minor air leak at the nose gear selecto
r. Decided to do it outside in the warm spring sunshine. Ended up having to r
eplace the selector so emailed doug to get a new one and left the old select
or out. When I push the airplane back in the hanger as I=99ve done hu
ndreds of times same hanger the nose gear slowly collapsed onto the tug.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Why did this happen? My theory is that the open circuit on the gear c
ircuit provided no back pressure for the nose down side. But, I really don
=99t know. I know it=99s over center to lock down. I would like to
hear any ideas or theories.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Luckily just minor damage to the cowling and the fiberglass on the tu
g. But I don=99t want to move the airplane again until I figure out w
hy it happened.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Read this topic online here:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=496246#496246
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ==========
>>>>>> List" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/N
avigator?Yak-List
>>>>>> ==========
>>>>>> FORUMS -
>>>>>> eferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com
>>>>>> ==========
>>>>>> WIKI -
>>>>>> errer" target="_blank">http://wiki.matronics.com
>>>>>> ==========
>>>>>> b Site -
>>>>>> -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
>>>>>> rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contrib
ution
>>>>>> ==========
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>
>
> Virus-free. www.avast.com
Message 11
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| Subject: | Nose gear collapse |
It collapsed because it was not adjusted correctly and / or proper
maintenance was not done.
Tom Elliott
CJ-6A NX63727
777 Quartz Ave
PMB 7004
Sandy Valley NV.
89019
Cell 541-297-5497
N13472@AOL.COM
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Flibob
Sent: Thursday, May 07, 2020 12:34 PM
Subject: Yak-List: Nose gear collapse
Nose gear collapse
So last Saturday working on a minor air leak at the nose gear selector. Decided
to do it outside in the warm spring sunshine. Ended up having to replace the
selector so emailed doug to get a new one and left the old selector out. When
I push the airplane back in the hanger as Ive done hundreds of times same hanger
the nose gear slowly collapsed onto the tug.
Why did this happen? My theory is that the open circuit on the gear circuit provided
no back pressure for the nose down side. But, I really dont know. I know
its over center to lock down. I would like to hear any ideas or theories.
Luckily just minor damage to the cowling and the fiberglass on the tug. But I
dont want to move the airplane again until I figure out why it happened.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=496246#496246
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Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Nose gear collapse |
>From all I have read so far re: the nose gear collapse the only correct
statement was from Tom Elliot!
Typical light aircraft retractable gear systems utilize the slightly over
center position of the "jackstays" (proper terminology escapes me at the
moment) as the actual down-lock. However there is always a secondary latch
system that is designed, not to carry the applied loads, but to ensure that
the slight over-center cannot be compromised by rough ground, bounces, etc.
In the CJ that latch is the oleo strut ball-lock system. There are many
variations of this concept in different aircraft but the slightly over-
center jackstay and latch is pretty much standard.
The ball-lock system leaves something to be desired in that the balls do
wear out over time and the only way to find that is a periodic landing gear
tear-down and inspection. Adjustment in accordance with specifications is
of course of primary importance.
In serviceable condition and properly adjusted once down and locked a total
loss of air pressure should have no effect whatsoever.
Walt
-----Original Message-----
From: Tom Elliott
Sent: Thursday, May 07, 2020 8:04 PM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Nose gear collapse
It collapsed because it was not adjusted correctly and / or proper
maintenance was not done.
Tom Elliott
CJ-6A NX63727
777 Quartz Ave
PMB 7004
Sandy Valley NV.
89019
Cell 541-297-5497
N13472@AOL.COM
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Flibob
Sent: Thursday, May 07, 2020 12:34 PM
Subject: Yak-List: Nose gear collapse
Nose gear collapse
So last Saturday working on a minor air leak at the nose gear selector.
Decided to do it outside in the warm spring sunshine. Ended up having to
replace the selector so emailed doug to get a new one and left the old
selector out. When I push the airplane back in the hanger as Ive done
hundreds of times same hanger the nose gear slowly collapsed onto the tug.
Why did this happen? My theory is that the open circuit on the gear circuit
provided no back pressure for the nose down side. But, I really dont
know. I know its over center to lock down. I would like to hear any
ideas or theories.
Luckily just minor damage to the cowling and the fiberglass on the tug. But
I dont want to move the airplane again until I figure out why it
happened.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=496246#496246
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