Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:45 AM - Re: Yak52TW stranded, anyone have Air near Winslow, AZ? (Mark Bitterlich)
2. 06:27 AM - Re: Yak52TW stranded, anyone have Air near Winslow, AZ? (Steven Johnson)
3. 06:27 AM - Re: Yak52TW stranded, anyone have Air near Winslow, AZ? (Patrick Ashura)
4. 03:46 PM - Re: Yak52TW stranded, anyone have Air near Winslow, AZ? (Mark Bitterlich)
5. 05:47 PM - Re: Yak52TW stranded, anyone have Air near Winslow, AZ? (A. Dennis Savarese)
6. 05:49 PM - Re: Yak52TW stranded, anyone have Air near Winslow, AZ? (A. Dennis Savarese)
7. 05:52 PM - Re: Yak52TW stranded, anyone have Air near Winslow, AZ? (Steven Johnson)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Yak52TW stranded, anyone have Air near Winslow, AZ? |
Interesting enough, not one mechanic at EWN has high pressure air, or nitrogen.
Of course I do, because when I went looking and found nothing I went out and
got some! The A&P's here use a strut pump. Airgas is a good idea, as is the
fire department.
I'm curious why no one mentioned just hand propping the engine? It is relatively
easy given the low compression ratio of the stock M-14. Properly primed and
pulled through it has always started in one pull for me (chocked and chained
down).
Of course it's a moot point since he got air and got it started, but for those
that start with air, it's probable that sooner or later this is going to happen
to all of us.
Mark
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of William Geipel
Sent: Sunday, November 15, 2020 6:39 PM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Yak52TW stranded, anyone have Air near Winslow, AZ?
Can he find Nitrogen? There must be a Praxair or Airgas around there some where.
Airplane mechanics have nitrogen for struts.
> On Nov 16, 2020, at 2:05 AM, Comcast <saber369@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>
> Ask the local fire department.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On Nov 15, 2020, at 09:04, ggtyler <ggtyler@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>> Any fellow Red Star Pilots near Winslow AZ have air? The fellow that purchased
my Yak 52TW is out of air in Winslow, and in need. It's your chance to be a
hero of this story! :) If you can help, please drop Jim a call at (469) 491-9068.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=499375#499375
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Yak52TW stranded, anyone have Air near Winslow, AZ? |
Hi Mark
Could you explain the proper technique for hand starting an M14? I think mine would
start right up but I have never had the balls to try it. I have also never
been shown the proper way to do it.
Steve
Sent from my iPad
> On Nov 16, 2020, at 8:48 AM, Mark Bitterlich <markbitterlich@embarqmail.com>
wrote:
>
>
> Interesting enough, not one mechanic at EWN has high pressure air, or nitrogen.
Of course I do, because when I went looking and found nothing I went out
and got some! The A&P's here use a strut pump. Airgas is a good idea, as is
the fire department.
>
> I'm curious why no one mentioned just hand propping the engine? It is relatively
easy given the low compression ratio of the stock M-14. Properly primed
and pulled through it has always started in one pull for me (chocked and chained
down).
>
> Of course it's a moot point since he got air and got it started, but for those
that start with air, it's probable that sooner or later this is going to happen
to all of us.
>
> Mark
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of William Geipel
> Sent: Sunday, November 15, 2020 6:39 PM
> To: Yaklist
> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Yak52TW stranded, anyone have Air near Winslow, AZ?
>
>
> Can he find Nitrogen? There must be a Praxair or Airgas around there some where.
> Airplane mechanics have nitrogen for struts.
>
>
>
>> On Nov 16, 2020, at 2:05 AM, Comcast <saber369@comcast.net> wrote:
>>
>>
>> Ask the local fire department.
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>>>> On Nov 15, 2020, at 09:04, ggtyler <ggtyler@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> Any fellow Red Star Pilots near Winslow AZ have air? The fellow that purchased
my Yak 52TW is out of air in Winslow, and in need. It's your chance to be
a hero of this story! :) If you can help, please drop Jim a call at (469) 491-9068.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Read this topic online here:
>>>
>>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=499375#499375
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Yak52TW stranded, anyone have Air near Winslow, AZ? |
I agree with Mark if its a two blade prop. I personally would not hand prop my
three blade prop, and thats why I carry an aluminum scuba tank (lots of room in
the 18T).
PJ Ashura
Sent from my iPhone
> On Nov 16, 2020, at 06:52, Mark Bitterlich <markbitterlich@embarqmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> Interesting enough, not one mechanic at EWN has high pressure air, or nitrogen.
Of course I do, because when I went looking and found nothing I went out
and got some! The A&P's here use a strut pump. Airgas is a good idea, as is
the fire department.
>
> I'm curious why no one mentioned just hand propping the engine? It is relatively
easy given the low compression ratio of the stock M-14. Properly primed
and pulled through it has always started in one pull for me (chocked and chained
down).
>
> Of course it's a moot point since he got air and got it started, but for those
that start with air, it's probable that sooner or later this is going to happen
to all of us.
>
> Mark
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of William Geipel
> Sent: Sunday, November 15, 2020 6:39 PM
> To: Yaklist
> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Yak52TW stranded, anyone have Air near Winslow, AZ?
>
>
> Can he find Nitrogen? There must be a Praxair or Airgas around there some where.
> Airplane mechanics have nitrogen for struts.
>
>
>
>> On Nov 16, 2020, at 2:05 AM, Comcast <saber369@comcast.net> wrote:
>>
>>
>> Ask the local fire department.
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>>>> On Nov 15, 2020, at 09:04, ggtyler <ggtyler@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> Any fellow Red Star Pilots near Winslow AZ have air? The fellow that purchased
my Yak 52TW is out of air in Winslow, and in need. It's your chance to be
a hero of this story! :) If you can help, please drop Jim a call at (469) 491-9068.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Read this topic online here:
>>>
>>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=499375#499375
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Yak52TW stranded, anyone have Air near Winslow, AZ? |
Hi Steve,
Well, there are lots of folks that have their own method, and I am sure many can
improve on mine, so anyone that feels like it, please jump in.
First, there are some things you need to know first. Most important is what type
of mags you have. Are they M9F's with fixed timing and "shower of sparks"
system, or the mechanical advance mags with possibly a booster coil?
Before going there, the most important thing about hand propping the M-14 is how
you prepare the engine beforehand. This applies equally to starting WITH air.
If you have an intake drain system, you prime the crap out of the engine (cold
or hot) as in about 5 strokes or so (or even more), and then immediately
get out and start pulling the prop through. Obvious safety cautions apply here.
MAGS off and previously verified that MAG switch DOES kill the engine. Regardless
be careful. Plane chocked AND tied down. I have pictures of my spare
YAK-50 that shows what happens if you skip that step.
Pull the prop through at least 5 blades or so. Wait for the excess gas to drain
out of the intake drain. If no gas comes out.... stop. It is clogged with
oil and you must prime it more and more and more until the oil thins and finally
gas drains out. This only happens in really cold weather with heavy weight
oil but it is *KEY* that as you are pulling the prop through, you *SEE* the
excess gas coming out. If this doesn't happen for any reason, stop. Do not go
any further. It is possible to hydro lock the pistons with gas, and if excess
fuel does not drain out, you're risking that. Now close intake drain valve.
Assuming excess gas came out of the drain, assuming you stopped pulling through
where you are ready to pull the prop to start, have someone get in the cockpit,
turn on the mags, hold down the start button, you will hear the shower of sparks
buzz and then pull the prop through one stroke. Have the primer pump pulled
out and ready for the guy in the cockpit to catch the engine starting and
add prime.
No start? Mags off. Pull prop through until compression stroke where you want
it, mags back on, try it again. If no start after all this.... mags off, re-prime,
pull it through a lot, try again, have intake drain open.. etc. . That
being said, the latter has NEVER happened to me.
You can practice this during normal starts. Apply this technique, get back in
the cockpit and hit the start button, with lots of air. It will normally start
on the first blade. If it does not start by the second blade, stop. Do the
whole procedure again. If you do this, you will never run the airplane out of
air. Normally running out of air happens when someone pulls the prop through
many times to clear the oil. Then does not prime and pull it through again.
They just jump in, prime it and then hit the start button. This works..,.,
but uses more air, and can sooner or later leave you with NO air.
I've seen M-14's start with no air, no start button being depressed.... no prime
at all, and one pull on the prop. It happened with a very experienced pilot
pulling the prop through with one mag P lead disconnected. The prop hit him
and threw him 10 feet into the air. He survived.
But priming and pulling the engine through (with an intake drain) is the secret.
Without the intake drain, things get kind of dicey and I am not going to go
there.
For those that want to slay me alive, please have at it. I am SURE there are other
methods out there.
Mark
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Steven Johnson
Sent: Monday, November 16, 2020 9:27 AM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Yak52TW stranded, anyone have Air near Winslow, AZ?
Hi Mark
Could you explain the proper technique for hand starting an M14? I think mine would
start right up but I have never had the balls to try it. I have also never
been shown the proper way to do it.
Steve
Sent from my iPad
> On Nov 16, 2020, at 8:48 AM, Mark Bitterlich <markbitterlich@embarqmail.com>
wrote:
>
>
> Interesting enough, not one mechanic at EWN has high pressure air, or nitrogen.
Of course I do, because when I went looking and found nothing I went out
and got some! The A&P's here use a strut pump. Airgas is a good idea, as is
the fire department.
>
> I'm curious why no one mentioned just hand propping the engine? It is relatively
easy given the low compression ratio of the stock M-14. Properly primed
and pulled through it has always started in one pull for me (chocked and chained
down).
>
> Of course it's a moot point since he got air and got it started, but for those
that start with air, it's probable that sooner or later this is going to happen
to all of us.
>
> Mark
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of William Geipel
> Sent: Sunday, November 15, 2020 6:39 PM
> To: Yaklist
> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Yak52TW stranded, anyone have Air near Winslow, AZ?
>
>
> Can he find Nitrogen? There must be a Praxair or Airgas around there some where.
> Airplane mechanics have nitrogen for struts.
>
>
>
>> On Nov 16, 2020, at 2:05 AM, Comcast <saber369@comcast.net> wrote:
>>
>>
>> Ask the local fire department.
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>>>> On Nov 15, 2020, at 09:04, ggtyler <ggtyler@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> Any fellow Red Star Pilots near Winslow AZ have air? The fellow that purchased
my Yak 52TW is out of air in Winslow, and in need. It's your chance to be
a hero of this story! :) If you can help, please drop Jim a call at (469) 491-9068.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Read this topic online here:
>>>
>>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=499375#499375
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Yak52TW stranded, anyone have Air near Winslow, AZ? |
The only thing I would add, particularly if you are not nearly as tall as Mark
B (67) and short like me, Is stand behind the prop and in front of the left wing
and pull down. This is just in case the airplane lurches and scares the bejesus
out of you.
Dennis
Sent from my iPad
> On Nov 16, 2020, at 6:48 PM, Mark Bitterlich <markbitterlich@embarqmail.com>
wrote:
>
>
> Hi Steve,
>
> Well, there are lots of folks that have their own method, and I am sure many
can improve on mine, so anyone that feels like it, please jump in.
>
> First, there are some things you need to know first. Most important is what
type of mags you have. Are they M9F's with fixed timing and "shower of sparks"
system, or the mechanical advance mags with possibly a booster coil?
>
> Before going there, the most important thing about hand propping the M-14 is
how you prepare the engine beforehand. This applies equally to starting WITH
air. If you have an intake drain system, you prime the crap out of the engine
(cold or hot) as in about 5 strokes or so (or even more), and then immediately
get out and start pulling the prop through. Obvious safety cautions apply here.
MAGS off and previously verified that MAG switch DOES kill the engine.
Regardless be careful. Plane chocked AND tied down. I have pictures of my spare
YAK-50 that shows what happens if you skip that step.
>
> Pull the prop through at least 5 blades or so. Wait for the excess gas to drain
out of the intake drain. If no gas comes out.... stop. It is clogged with
oil and you must prime it more and more and more until the oil thins and finally
gas drains out. This only happens in really cold weather with heavy weight
oil but it is *KEY* that as you are pulling the prop through, you *SEE* the
excess gas coming out. If this doesn't happen for any reason, stop. Do not
go any further. It is possible to hydro lock the pistons with gas, and if excess
fuel does not drain out, you're risking that. Now close intake drain valve.
>
> Assuming excess gas came out of the drain, assuming you stopped pulling through
where you are ready to pull the prop to start, have someone get in the cockpit,
turn on the mags, hold down the start button, you will hear the shower of
sparks buzz and then pull the prop through one stroke. Have the primer pump
pulled out and ready for the guy in the cockpit to catch the engine starting and
add prime.
>
> No start? Mags off. Pull prop through until compression stroke where you want
it, mags back on, try it again. If no start after all this.... mags off,
re-prime, pull it through a lot, try again, have intake drain open.. etc. . That
being said, the latter has NEVER happened to me.
>
> You can practice this during normal starts. Apply this technique, get back in
the cockpit and hit the start button, with lots of air. It will normally start
on the first blade. If it does not start by the second blade, stop. Do the
whole procedure again. If you do this, you will never run the airplane out
of air. Normally running out of air happens when someone pulls the prop through
many times to clear the oil. Then does not prime and pull it through again.
They just jump in, prime it and then hit the start button. This works..,.,
but uses more air, and can sooner or later leave you with NO air.
>
> I've seen M-14's start with no air, no start button being depressed.... no prime
at all, and one pull on the prop. It happened with a very experienced pilot
pulling the prop through with one mag P lead disconnected. The prop hit him
and threw him 10 feet into the air. He survived.
>
> But priming and pulling the engine through (with an intake drain) is the secret.
Without the intake drain, things get kind of dicey and I am not going to
go there.
>
> For those that want to slay me alive, please have at it. I am SURE there are
other methods out there.
>
> Mark
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Steven Johnson
> Sent: Monday, November 16, 2020 9:27 AM
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Yak52TW stranded, anyone have Air near Winslow, AZ?
>
>
> Hi Mark
> Could you explain the proper technique for hand starting an M14? I think mine
would start right up but I have never had the balls to try it. I have also never
been shown the proper way to do it.
>
> Steve
> Sent from my iPad
>
>> On Nov 16, 2020, at 8:48 AM, Mark Bitterlich <markbitterlich@embarqmail.com>
wrote:
>>
>>
>> Interesting enough, not one mechanic at EWN has high pressure air, or nitrogen.
Of course I do, because when I went looking and found nothing I went out
and got some! The A&P's here use a strut pump. Airgas is a good idea, as is
the fire department.
>>
>> I'm curious why no one mentioned just hand propping the engine? It is relatively
easy given the low compression ratio of the stock M-14. Properly primed
and pulled through it has always started in one pull for me (chocked and chained
down).
>>
>> Of course it's a moot point since he got air and got it started, but for those
that start with air, it's probable that sooner or later this is going to happen
to all of us.
>>
>> Mark
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of William Geipel
>> Sent: Sunday, November 15, 2020 6:39 PM
>> To: Yaklist
>> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Yak52TW stranded, anyone have Air near Winslow, AZ?
>>
>>
>> Can he find Nitrogen? There must be a Praxair or Airgas around there some where.
>> Airplane mechanics have nitrogen for struts.
>>
>>
>>
>>>> On Nov 16, 2020, at 2:05 AM, Comcast <saber369@comcast.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> Ask the local fire department.
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>>>> On Nov 15, 2020, at 09:04, ggtyler <ggtyler@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Any fellow Red Star Pilots near Winslow AZ have air? The fellow that purchased
my Yak 52TW is out of air in Winslow, and in need. It's your chance to be
a hero of this story! :) If you can help, please drop Jim a call at (469) 491-9068.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Read this topic online here:
>>>>
>>>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=499375#499375
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 6
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|
| Subject: | Re: Yak52TW stranded, anyone have Air near Winslow, AZ? |
The only thing I would add, particularly if you are not nearly as tall as Mark
B (67) and short like me, Is stand behind the prop and in front of the left wing
and pull down. This is just in case the airplane lurches and scares the bejesus
out of you.
Dennis
Sent from my iPad
> On Nov 16, 2020, at 6:48 PM, Mark Bitterlich <markbitterlich@embarqmail.com>
wrote:
>
>
> Hi Steve,
>
> Well, there are lots of folks that have their own method, and I am sure many
can improve on mine, so anyone that feels like it, please jump in.
>
> First, there are some things you need to know first. Most important is what
type of mags you have. Are they M9F's with fixed timing and "shower of sparks"
system, or the mechanical advance mags with possibly a booster coil?
>
> Before going there, the most important thing about hand propping the M-14 is
how you prepare the engine beforehand. This applies equally to starting WITH
air. If you have an intake drain system, you prime the crap out of the engine
(cold or hot) as in about 5 strokes or so (or even more), and then immediately
get out and start pulling the prop through. Obvious safety cautions apply here.
MAGS off and previously verified that MAG switch DOES kill the engine.
Regardless be careful. Plane chocked AND tied down. I have pictures of my spare
YAK-50 that shows what happens if you skip that step.
>
> Pull the prop through at least 5 blades or so. Wait for the excess gas to drain
out of the intake drain. If no gas comes out.... stop. It is clogged with
oil and you must prime it more and more and more until the oil thins and finally
gas drains out. This only happens in really cold weather with heavy weight
oil but it is *KEY* that as you are pulling the prop through, you *SEE* the
excess gas coming out. If this doesn't happen for any reason, stop. Do not
go any further. It is possible to hydro lock the pistons with gas, and if excess
fuel does not drain out, you're risking that. Now close intake drain valve.
>
> Assuming excess gas came out of the drain, assuming you stopped pulling through
where you are ready to pull the prop to start, have someone get in the cockpit,
turn on the mags, hold down the start button, you will hear the shower of
sparks buzz and then pull the prop through one stroke. Have the primer pump
pulled out and ready for the guy in the cockpit to catch the engine starting and
add prime.
>
> No start? Mags off. Pull prop through until compression stroke where you want
it, mags back on, try it again. If no start after all this.... mags off,
re-prime, pull it through a lot, try again, have intake drain open.. etc. . That
being said, the latter has NEVER happened to me.
>
> You can practice this during normal starts. Apply this technique, get back in
the cockpit and hit the start button, with lots of air. It will normally start
on the first blade. If it does not start by the second blade, stop. Do the
whole procedure again. If you do this, you will never run the airplane out
of air. Normally running out of air happens when someone pulls the prop through
many times to clear the oil. Then does not prime and pull it through again.
They just jump in, prime it and then hit the start button. This works..,.,
but uses more air, and can sooner or later leave you with NO air.
>
> I've seen M-14's start with no air, no start button being depressed.... no prime
at all, and one pull on the prop. It happened with a very experienced pilot
pulling the prop through with one mag P lead disconnected. The prop hit him
and threw him 10 feet into the air. He survived.
>
> But priming and pulling the engine through (with an intake drain) is the secret.
Without the intake drain, things get kind of dicey and I am not going to
go there.
>
> For those that want to slay me alive, please have at it. I am SURE there are
other methods out there.
>
> Mark
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Steven Johnson
> Sent: Monday, November 16, 2020 9:27 AM
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Yak52TW stranded, anyone have Air near Winslow, AZ?
>
>
> Hi Mark
> Could you explain the proper technique for hand starting an M14? I think mine
would start right up but I have never had the balls to try it. I have also never
been shown the proper way to do it.
>
> Steve
> Sent from my iPad
>
>> On Nov 16, 2020, at 8:48 AM, Mark Bitterlich <markbitterlich@embarqmail.com>
wrote:
>>
>>
>> Interesting enough, not one mechanic at EWN has high pressure air, or nitrogen.
Of course I do, because when I went looking and found nothing I went out
and got some! The A&P's here use a strut pump. Airgas is a good idea, as is
the fire department.
>>
>> I'm curious why no one mentioned just hand propping the engine? It is relatively
easy given the low compression ratio of the stock M-14. Properly primed
and pulled through it has always started in one pull for me (chocked and chained
down).
>>
>> Of course it's a moot point since he got air and got it started, but for those
that start with air, it's probable that sooner or later this is going to happen
to all of us.
>>
>> Mark
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of William Geipel
>> Sent: Sunday, November 15, 2020 6:39 PM
>> To: Yaklist
>> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Yak52TW stranded, anyone have Air near Winslow, AZ?
>>
>>
>> Can he find Nitrogen? There must be a Praxair or Airgas around there some where.
>> Airplane mechanics have nitrogen for struts.
>>
>>
>>
>>>> On Nov 16, 2020, at 2:05 AM, Comcast <saber369@comcast.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> Ask the local fire department.
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>>>> On Nov 15, 2020, at 09:04, ggtyler <ggtyler@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Any fellow Red Star Pilots near Winslow AZ have air? The fellow that purchased
my Yak 52TW is out of air in Winslow, and in need. It's your chance to be
a hero of this story! :) If you can help, please drop Jim a call at (469) 491-9068.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Read this topic online here:
>>>>
>>>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=499375#499375
>>>>
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| Subject: | Re: Yak52TW stranded, anyone have Air near Winslow, AZ? |
Thanks for the information. Could you talk a little about the process of actually
pulling the prop through? How do you hold it and how do you make sure you
dont get hit when the engine starts?
Steve
Sent from my iPad
> On Nov 16, 2020, at 6:49 PM, Mark Bitterlich <markbitterlich@embarqmail.com>
wrote:
>
>
> Hi Steve,
>
> Well, there are lots of folks that have their own method, and I am sure many
can improve on mine, so anyone that feels like it, please jump in.
>
> First, there are some things you need to know first. Most important is what
type of mags you have. Are they M9F's with fixed timing and "shower of sparks"
system, or the mechanical advance mags with possibly a booster coil?
>
> Before going there, the most important thing about hand propping the M-14 is
how you prepare the engine beforehand. This applies equally to starting WITH
air. If you have an intake drain system, you prime the crap out of the engine
(cold or hot) as in about 5 strokes or so (or even more), and then immediately
get out and start pulling the prop through. Obvious safety cautions apply here.
MAGS off and previously verified that MAG switch DOES kill the engine.
Regardless be careful. Plane chocked AND tied down. I have pictures of my spare
YAK-50 that shows what happens if you skip that step.
>
> Pull the prop through at least 5 blades or so. Wait for the excess gas to drain
out of the intake drain. If no gas comes out.... stop. It is clogged with
oil and you must prime it more and more and more until the oil thins and finally
gas drains out. This only happens in really cold weather with heavy weight
oil but it is *KEY* that as you are pulling the prop through, you *SEE* the
excess gas coming out. If this doesn't happen for any reason, stop. Do not
go any further. It is possible to hydro lock the pistons with gas, and if excess
fuel does not drain out, you're risking that. Now close intake drain valve.
>
> Assuming excess gas came out of the drain, assuming you stopped pulling through
where you are ready to pull the prop to start, have someone get in the cockpit,
turn on the mags, hold down the start button, you will hear the shower of
sparks buzz and then pull the prop through one stroke. Have the primer pump
pulled out and ready for the guy in the cockpit to catch the engine starting and
add prime.
>
> No start? Mags off. Pull prop through until compression stroke where you want
it, mags back on, try it again. If no start after all this.... mags off,
re-prime, pull it through a lot, try again, have intake drain open.. etc. . That
being said, the latter has NEVER happened to me.
>
> You can practice this during normal starts. Apply this technique, get back in
the cockpit and hit the start button, with lots of air. It will normally start
on the first blade. If it does not start by the second blade, stop. Do the
whole procedure again. If you do this, you will never run the airplane out
of air. Normally running out of air happens when someone pulls the prop through
many times to clear the oil. Then does not prime and pull it through again.
They just jump in, prime it and then hit the start button. This works..,.,
but uses more air, and can sooner or later leave you with NO air.
>
> I've seen M-14's start with no air, no start button being depressed.... no prime
at all, and one pull on the prop. It happened with a very experienced pilot
pulling the prop through with one mag P lead disconnected. The prop hit him
and threw him 10 feet into the air. He survived.
>
> But priming and pulling the engine through (with an intake drain) is the secret.
Without the intake drain, things get kind of dicey and I am not going to
go there.
>
> For those that want to slay me alive, please have at it. I am SURE there are
other methods out there.
>
> Mark
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Steven Johnson
> Sent: Monday, November 16, 2020 9:27 AM
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Yak52TW stranded, anyone have Air near Winslow, AZ?
>
>
> Hi Mark
> Could you explain the proper technique for hand starting an M14? I think mine
would start right up but I have never had the balls to try it. I have also never
been shown the proper way to do it.
>
> Steve
> Sent from my iPad
>
>> On Nov 16, 2020, at 8:48 AM, Mark Bitterlich <markbitterlich@embarqmail.com>
wrote:
>>
>>
>> Interesting enough, not one mechanic at EWN has high pressure air, or nitrogen.
Of course I do, because when I went looking and found nothing I went out
and got some! The A&P's here use a strut pump. Airgas is a good idea, as is
the fire department.
>>
>> I'm curious why no one mentioned just hand propping the engine? It is relatively
easy given the low compression ratio of the stock M-14. Properly primed
and pulled through it has always started in one pull for me (chocked and chained
down).
>>
>> Of course it's a moot point since he got air and got it started, but for those
that start with air, it's probable that sooner or later this is going to happen
to all of us.
>>
>> Mark
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of William Geipel
>> Sent: Sunday, November 15, 2020 6:39 PM
>> To: Yaklist
>> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Yak52TW stranded, anyone have Air near Winslow, AZ?
>>
>>
>> Can he find Nitrogen? There must be a Praxair or Airgas around there some where.
>> Airplane mechanics have nitrogen for struts.
>>
>>
>>
>>>> On Nov 16, 2020, at 2:05 AM, Comcast <saber369@comcast.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> Ask the local fire department.
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>>>> On Nov 15, 2020, at 09:04, ggtyler <ggtyler@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Any fellow Red Star Pilots near Winslow AZ have air? The fellow that purchased
my Yak 52TW is out of air in Winslow, and in need. It's your chance to be
a hero of this story! :) If you can help, please drop Jim a call at (469) 491-9068.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Read this topic online here:
>>>>
>>>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=499375#499375
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
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