Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 03:40 AM - Re: Yak52TW stranded, anyone have Air near Winslow, AZ? (Richard Hess)
2. 12:57 PM - Re: Yak52TW stranded, anyone have Air near Winslow, AZ? (dbflr)
3. 03:12 PM - Re: Re: Yak52TW stranded, anyone have Air near Winslow, AZ? (mark bitterlich)
4. 04:29 PM - Re: Re: Yak52TW stranded, anyone have Air near Winslow, AZ? (\)
Message 1
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Yak52TW stranded, anyone have Air near Winslow, AZ? |
Steven
We had to hand prop a Yak-52 down in TX a few weeks ago after the main air system
went to zero and no one had air that weekend.
We chocked both mains and primed as per a normal start. The mechanic who helped
me did the pull from behind the prop on the left side.
I left the front mag switch off and pushed and held the start button at the same
moment he pulled a blade. The engine started quite normal and easy on the shower
of sparks. Then and only then I flipped the mag switch on.
It went easier than I thought it would. But we only did this as a last ditch option.
We sat there and built up air pressure and the rest of the day starts were
done in the normal way.
Richard Hess
C 404-964-4885
> On Nov 16, 2020, at 8:53 PM, Steven Johnson <sajdds@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>
> Thanks for the information. Could you talk a little about the process of actually
pulling the prop through? How do you hold it and how do you make sure you
dont get hit when the engine starts?
>
> Steve
> Sent from my iPad
>
>> On Nov 16, 2020, at 6:49 PM, Mark Bitterlich <markbitterlich@embarqmail.com>
wrote:
>>
>>
>> Hi Steve,
>>
>> Well, there are lots of folks that have their own method, and I am sure many
can improve on mine, so anyone that feels like it, please jump in.
>>
>> First, there are some things you need to know first. Most important is what
type of mags you have. Are they M9F's with fixed timing and "shower of sparks"
system, or the mechanical advance mags with possibly a booster coil?
>>
>> Before going there, the most important thing about hand propping the M-14 is
how you prepare the engine beforehand. This applies equally to starting WITH
air. If you have an intake drain system, you prime the crap out of the engine
(cold or hot) as in about 5 strokes or so (or even more), and then immediately
get out and start pulling the prop through. Obvious safety cautions apply
here. MAGS off and previously verified that MAG switch DOES kill the engine.
Regardless be careful. Plane chocked AND tied down. I have pictures of my spare
YAK-50 that shows what happens if you skip that step.
>>
>> Pull the prop through at least 5 blades or so. Wait for the excess gas to drain
out of the intake drain. If no gas comes out.... stop. It is clogged with
oil and you must prime it more and more and more until the oil thins and finally
gas drains out. This only happens in really cold weather with heavy weight
oil but it is *KEY* that as you are pulling the prop through, you *SEE* the
excess gas coming out. If this doesn't happen for any reason, stop. Do not
go any further. It is possible to hydro lock the pistons with gas, and if excess
fuel does not drain out, you're risking that. Now close intake drain valve.
>>
>> Assuming excess gas came out of the drain, assuming you stopped pulling through
where you are ready to pull the prop to start, have someone get in the cockpit,
turn on the mags, hold down the start button, you will hear the shower of
sparks buzz and then pull the prop through one stroke. Have the primer pump
pulled out and ready for the guy in the cockpit to catch the engine starting
and add prime.
>>
>> No start? Mags off. Pull prop through until compression stroke where you want
it, mags back on, try it again. If no start after all this.... mags off,
re-prime, pull it through a lot, try again, have intake drain open.. etc. .
That being said, the latter has NEVER happened to me.
>>
>> You can practice this during normal starts. Apply this technique, get back
in the cockpit and hit the start button, with lots of air. It will normally start
on the first blade. If it does not start by the second blade, stop. Do
the whole procedure again. If you do this, you will never run the airplane out
of air. Normally running out of air happens when someone pulls the prop through
many times to clear the oil. Then does not prime and pull it through again.
They just jump in, prime it and then hit the start button. This works..,.,
but uses more air, and can sooner or later leave you with NO air.
>>
>> I've seen M-14's start with no air, no start button being depressed.... no prime
at all, and one pull on the prop. It happened with a very experienced pilot
pulling the prop through with one mag P lead disconnected. The prop hit him
and threw him 10 feet into the air. He survived.
>>
>> But priming and pulling the engine through (with an intake drain) is the secret.
Without the intake drain, things get kind of dicey and I am not going to
go there.
>>
>> For those that want to slay me alive, please have at it. I am SURE there are
other methods out there.
>>
>> Mark
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Steven Johnson
>> Sent: Monday, November 16, 2020 9:27 AM
>> To: yak-list@matronics.com
>> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Yak52TW stranded, anyone have Air near Winslow, AZ?
>>
>>
>> Hi Mark
>> Could you explain the proper technique for hand starting an M14? I think mine
would start right up but I have never had the balls to try it. I have also never
been shown the proper way to do it.
>>
>> Steve
>> Sent from my iPad
>>
>>>> On Nov 16, 2020, at 8:48 AM, Mark Bitterlich <markbitterlich@embarqmail.com>
wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> Interesting enough, not one mechanic at EWN has high pressure air, or nitrogen.
Of course I do, because when I went looking and found nothing I went out
and got some! The A&P's here use a strut pump. Airgas is a good idea, as
is the fire department.
>>>
>>> I'm curious why no one mentioned just hand propping the engine? It is relatively
easy given the low compression ratio of the stock M-14. Properly primed
and pulled through it has always started in one pull for me (chocked and chained
down).
>>>
>>> Of course it's a moot point since he got air and got it started, but for those
that start with air, it's probable that sooner or later this is going to happen
to all of us.
>>>
>>> Mark
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of William Geipel
>>> Sent: Sunday, November 15, 2020 6:39 PM
>>> To: Yaklist
>>> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Yak52TW stranded, anyone have Air near Winslow, AZ?
>>>
>>>
>>> Can he find Nitrogen? There must be a Praxair or Airgas around there some where.
>>> Airplane mechanics have nitrogen for struts.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>> On Nov 16, 2020, at 2:05 AM, Comcast <saber369@comcast.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Ask the local fire department.
>>>>
>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>
>>>>>> On Nov 15, 2020, at 09:04, ggtyler <ggtyler@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Any fellow Red Star Pilots near Winslow AZ have air? The fellow that purchased
my Yak 52TW is out of air in Winslow, and in need. It's your chance to be
a hero of this story! :) If you can help, please drop Jim a call at (469) 491-9068.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Read this topic online here:
>>>>>
>>>>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=499375#499375
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 2
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Yak52TW stranded, anyone have Air near Winslow, AZ? |
there's much safer and more efficient way of doing it than pulling a live prop
by hand. grab a piece of rope and make a pocket at one end to envelope blade's
tip, but not tight so it can slip when prop rotates about 90deg. then pull
from a distance. actually it's a standard "ground support" tool for bigger radials.
or get rid of air start system completely. just fuggedaboutit ! have almost new
electric start kit if anyone is interested
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=499412#499412
Message 3
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Yak52TW stranded, anyone have Air near Winslow, AZ? |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Message 4
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Yak52TW stranded, anyone have Air near Winslow, AZ? |
The only thing I can add is you want to assure your footing.=C2- Loose gr
avel, iceie or slippery surface or even poor footing because of foot wear.
Jim "Pappy" Goolsby
On Tuesday, November 17, 2020 mark bitterlich <yak-list@matronics.com> wrot
e:
The only problem with electric start is battery capacity. What most Yak own
ers put in place of the original NiCAD battery won't hack the rather massiv
e current draw of a starter motor. Nothing wrong with the idea though.... I
've seen it work well.=C2-
Mark=C2-
P.s. I've seen that "Indian rope trick" in action.=C2- It was used to pul
l props through to get oil out on bigger radials a lot. Never seen it used
to start one. I have visions of the engine pop starting, ripping the rope o
ut of hand, rope wrapping around prop hub, etc.=C2- I've propped high com
pression IO550's safely. Standing behind the prop as Dennis mentioned works
well, also standing sideways in front on the prop, reaching down with one
hand and grabbing the prop end with one hand and pull as you walk away from
the prop.=C2-
Bottom line, no matter how you do it there is some kind of "Danger Close" q
uite literally at hand. But when you have no other choice, it is best not t
o have to attempt it for the first time. Also, leather gloves are good to h
ave available.
-------- Original message --------From: dbflr <le_vix@hotmail.com> Date: 11
/17/20 15:56 (GMT-05:00) To: yak-list@matronics.com Subject: Yak-List: Re:
Yak52TW stranded, anyone have Air near Winslow, AZ?
there's much safer and more efficient way of doing it than pulling a live p
rop by hand.=C2- grab a piece of rope and make a pocket at one end to env
elope blade's tip, but not tight so it can slip when prop rotates about 90d
eg.=C2- then pull from a distance.=C2- actually it's a standard "ground
support" tool for bigger radials.
or get rid of air start system completely. just fuggedaboutit !=C2- have
almost new electric start kit if anyone is interested
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=499412#499412
Email Forum -
-=C2-=C2- - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
-=C2- - NEW MATRONICS LIST WIKI -
- - List Contribution Web Site -
-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-
=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2- -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
Other Matronics Email List Services
These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.
-- Please support this service by making your Contribution today! --
|