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1. 04:01 PM - Re: Re: Yak52TW stranded, anyone have Air near Winslow, AZ? (Mark Bitterlich)
2. 09:51 PM - Re: Re: Yak52TW stranded, anyone have Air near Winslow, AZ? ()
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Yak52TW stranded, anyone have Air near Winslow, AZ? |
This has been a nice thread, and I=99ve learned a few things from
it.. so thanks.
I have to say that I like the idea of having dual start, and George is
dead on about the difficulties of finding high pressure air.
But I have been toying with another idea. Ever since I retired with the
Prowlers last year, my source of dry water pumped nitrogen has dried
up, but it was nice while it lasted. I have been looking at the Pyramid
high pressure (relatively) low volume air compressor normally used to
pressurize their really cool air rifles. By the way, they have .45 and
.357 air rifles at pretty respectable velocities. I want one. Anyway,
some of them use small 3000 PSI bottles built into the gun itself and
are refilled by compressors capable of 4500 PSI (!!!). Yes, 4,500
PSI holy cow.
Check this out:
https://www.pyramydair.com/a/Accessories/PCP/Compressors/715
So you=99re looking at 20 pounds or so. I have not given thought
to reality, as in =9Cwhere do I mount this thing?=9D, etc.
Or do I even want to mount it? But I sure do want one in the hangar!
Not exactly cheap at $700 or so but . Again, I WANT one.
Worth thinking about anyway.
Mark
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of George
Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2020 11:29 AM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Re: Yak52TW stranded, anyone have Air near
Winslow, AZ?
Richard,
The Electric start / dual start was a decision that I made. As you may
recall, I bought 10 new Yak-52 in late 1995. In 1998, I made a follow on
order for 12 more aircraft and had Aerostar develop the Yak 52W. (and
later the Yak 52TW). It was my specifications for the
=9CW=9D version to Aerostar. We were making an aircraft more
acceptable to the western market. The significant changes were more
fuel, hydraulic brakes, western radios etc.
One for the changes we offered to our customers was the electric start.
The thinking was that electric start provided a more comfortable way for
most western users. It also eliminated the need to carry spare
compressed air when traveling away from home base. We here in the states
tended to fly these aircraft away from home base. My thinking was you
could pretty much always find a set of jumper cables at any airport, but
seldom find high pressure compressed air. The aircraft still needed air
for the gear and flaps, the dual start was offered as an option.
George Coy
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
<owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com> On Behalf Of Richard Goode
Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2020 6:17 AM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Re: Yak52TW stranded, anyone have Air near
Winslow, AZ?
I was always surprised by the decision of Aerostar to make the 52W and
TW with both electric and air start. I assumed it was to encourage
Americans who were not familiar with air start into owning Yaks, but in
any aircraft, it does seem to me bizarre to significantly increase the
weight of the aircraft with no real advantage, by installing both
systems. For reasons that are total bureaucracy and nothing to do with
safety, I don't think there are any 52W or TW in Europe, and I'm not
sure if there is a centre of gravity issue whereby having the starter
motor; ring gear at the front of the aircraft is helpful. But certainly,
if I had the choice, I would go for air-start alone any time, and in an
aeroplane that has been properly maintained and a pilot who knows how to
operate the air start, it will always work! The problem is pilots who
think that the air start is like an electric motor, and if the engine
doesn't start immediately, continue to keep it turning on the air. Of
course with each revolution, the fuel mixture completely changes and it
will never start!
Richard
RICHARD GOODE AEROBATICS
Rhodds Farm, Lyonshall, Hereford, HR5 3LW, UK
Tel: +44 (0)1544 340120 Fax: +44 (0)1544 340129
e-mail: <mailto:richard.goode@russianaeros.com>
richard.goode@russianaeros.com
www.russianaeros.com
WORLD LEADERS IN RUSSIAN SPORTING AIRCRAFT & ENGINES
In partnership with Aerometal Kft, Hungary.
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
<owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com> On Behalf Of "
Sent: 18 November 2020 00:28
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: Yak52TW stranded, anyone have Air near
Winslow, AZ?
The only thing I can add is you want to assure your footing. Loose
gravel, iceie or slippery surface or even poor footing because of foot
wear.
Jim "Pappy" Goolsby
_____
On Tuesday, November 17, 2020 mark bitterlich <yak-list@matronics.com>
wrote:
The only problem with electric start is battery capacity. What most Yak
owners put in place of the original NiCAD battery won't hack the rather
massive current draw of a starter motor. Nothing wrong with the idea
though.... I've seen it work well.
Mark
P.s. I've seen that "Indian rope trick" in action. It was used to pull
props through to get oil out on bigger radials a lot. Never seen it used
to start one. I have visions of the engine pop starting, ripping the
rope out of hand, rope wrapping around prop hub, etc. I've propped high
compression IO550's safely. Standing behind the prop as Dennis mentioned
works well, also standing sideways in front on the prop, reaching down
with one hand and grabbing the prop end with one hand and pull as you
walk away from the prop.
Bottom line, no matter how you do it there is some kind of "Danger
Close" quite literally at hand. But when you have no other choice, it is
best not to have to attempt it for the first time. Also, leather gloves
are good to have available.
-------- Original message --------
From: dbflr <le_vix@hotmail.com>
Subject: Yak-List: Re: Yak52TW stranded, anyone have Air near Winslow,
AZ?
there's much safer and more efficient way of doing it than pulling a
live prop by hand. grab a piece of rope and make a pocket at one end to
envelope blade's tip, but not tight so it can slip when prop rotates
about 90deg. then pull from a distance. actually it's a standard
"ground support" tool for bigger radials.
or get rid of air start system completely. just fuggedaboutit ! have
almost new electric start kit if anyone is interested
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=499412#499412
<brsp; - MAT - NEW MATRONICS LISTp;
-Matt Dralle, List
Ad-========================
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Yak52TW stranded, anyone have Air near Winslow, AZ? |
Hi Mark,
It=99s been a while, hasn=99t it?
Please contact me off list =93 would love to catch up!
cd001633 at mindspring dot com
Thanks,
Sam Sax
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
<owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com> On Behalf Of Mark Bitterlich
Sent: Thursday, November 19, 2020 7:01 PM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Re: Yak52TW stranded, anyone have Air near
Winslow, AZ?
This has been a nice thread, and I=99ve learned a few things from
it.. so thanks.
I have to say that I like the idea of having dual start, and George is
dead on about the difficulties of finding high pressure air.
But I have been toying with another idea. Ever since I retired with the
Prowlers last year, my source of dry water pumped nitrogen has dried
up, but it was nice while it lasted. I have been looking at the Pyramid
high pressure (relatively) low volume air compressor normally used to
pressurize their really cool air rifles. By the way, they have .45 and
.357 air rifles at pretty respectable velocities. I want one. Anyway,
some of them use small 3000 PSI bottles built into the gun itself and
are refilled by compressors capable of 4500 PSI (!!!). Yes, 4,500
PSI holy cow.
Check this out:
https://www.pyramydair.com/a/Accessories/PCP/Compressors/715
So you=99re looking at 20 pounds or so. I have not given thought
to reality, as in =9Cwhere do I mount this thing?=9D, etc.
Or do I even want to mount it? But I sure do want one in the hangar!
Not exactly cheap at $700 or so but . Again, I WANT one.
Worth thinking about anyway.
Mark
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
<mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com>
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of George
Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2020 11:29 AM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Re: Yak52TW stranded, anyone have Air near
Winslow, AZ?
Richard,
The Electric start / dual start was a decision that I made. As you may
recall, I bought 10 new Yak-52 in late 1995. In 1998, I made a follow on
order for 12 more aircraft and had Aerostar develop the Yak 52W. (and
later the Yak 52TW). It was my specifications for the
=9CW=9D version to Aerostar. We were making an aircraft more
acceptable to the western market. The significant changes were more
fuel, hydraulic brakes, western radios etc.
One for the changes we offered to our customers was the electric start.
The thinking was that electric start provided a more comfortable way for
most western users. It also eliminated the need to carry spare
compressed air when traveling away from home base. We here in the states
tended to fly these aircraft away from home base. My thinking was you
could pretty much always find a set of jumper cables at any airport, but
seldom find high pressure compressed air. The aircraft still needed air
for the gear and flaps, the dual start was offered as an option.
George Coy
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
<mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com>
<owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
<mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com> > On Behalf Of Richard
Goode
Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2020 6:17 AM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Re: Yak52TW stranded, anyone have Air near
Winslow, AZ?
I was always surprised by the decision of Aerostar to make the 52W and
TW with both electric and air start. I assumed it was to encourage
Americans who were not familiar with air start into owning Yaks, but in
any aircraft, it does seem to me bizarre to significantly increase the
weight of the aircraft with no real advantage, by installing both
systems. For reasons that are total bureaucracy and nothing to do with
safety, I don't think there are any 52W or TW in Europe, and I'm not
sure if there is a centre of gravity issue whereby having the starter
motor; ring gear at the front of the aircraft is helpful. But certainly,
if I had the choice, I would go for air-start alone any time, and in an
aeroplane that has been properly maintained and a pilot who knows how to
operate the air start, it will always work! The problem is pilots who
think that the air start is like an electric motor, and if the engine
doesn't start immediately, continue to keep it turning on the air. Of
course with each revolution, the fuel mixture completely changes and it
will never start!
Richard
RICHARD GOODE AEROBATICS
Rhodds Farm, Lyonshall, Hereford, HR5 3LW, UK
Tel: +44 (0)1544 340120 Fax: +44 (0)1544 340129
e-mail: <mailto:richard.goode@russianaeros.com>
richard.goode@russianaeros.com
www.russianaeros.com <http://www.russianaeros.com>
WORLD LEADERS IN RUSSIAN SPORTING AIRCRAFT & ENGINES
In partnership with Aerometal Kft, Hungary.
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
<mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com>
<owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
<mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com> > On Behalf Of "
Sent: 18 November 2020 00:28
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: Yak52TW stranded, anyone have Air near
Winslow, AZ?
The only thing I can add is you want to assure your footing. Loose
gravel, iceie or slippery surface or even poor footing because of foot
wear.
Jim "Pappy" Goolsby
_____
On Tuesday, November 17, 2020 mark bitterlich <yak-list@matronics.com
<mailto:yak-list@matronics.com> > wrote:
The only problem with electric start is battery capacity. What most Yak
owners put in place of the original NiCAD battery won't hack the rather
massive current draw of a starter motor. Nothing wrong with the idea
though.... I've seen it work well.
Mark
P.s. I've seen that "Indian rope trick" in action. It was used to pull
props through to get oil out on bigger radials a lot. Never seen it used
to start one. I have visions of the engine pop starting, ripping the
rope out of hand, rope wrapping around prop hub, etc. I've propped high
compression IO550's safely. Standing behind the prop as Dennis mentioned
works well, also standing sideways in front on the prop, reaching down
with one hand and grabbing the prop end with one hand and pull as you
walk away from the prop.
Bottom line, no matter how you do it there is some kind of "Danger
Close" quite literally at hand. But when you have no other choice, it is
best not to have to attempt it for the first time. Also, leather gloves
are good to have available.
-------- Original message --------
From: dbflr <le_vix@hotmail.com <mailto:le_vix@hotmail.com> >
Subject: Yak-List: Re: Yak52TW stranded, anyone have Air near Winslow,
AZ?
<mailto:le_vix@hotmail.com> >
there's much safer and more efficient way of doing it than pulling a
live prop by hand. grab a piece of rope and make a pocket at one end to
envelope blade's tip, but not tight so it can slip when prop rotates
about 90deg. then pull from a distance. actually it's a standard
"ground support" tool for bigger radials.
or get rid of air start system completely. just fuggedaboutit ! have
almost new electric start kit if anyone is interested
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=499412#499412
<brsp; - MAT - NEW MATRONICS LISTp;
-Matt Dralle, List
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