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1. 11:34 AM - Re: Re: Yak52TW stranded, anyone have Air near Winslow, AZ? (Mark Bitterlich)
2. 12:02 PM - Re: Re: Yak52TW stranded, anyone have Air near Winslow, AZ? (Marcus Bates)
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| Subject: | Re: Yak52TW stranded, anyone have Air near Winslow, AZ? |
A good friend from this list mentioned to me that it would be
inadvisable to use these compressors to fill scuba tanks for the main
reason that it would bypass the (safety) necessity of having the scuba
tanks inspected and certified before being filled. He=99s correct
of course, hence me writing this note.
Another thing to keep in mind is that these compressors get very hot,
and they are not meant to run for hours on end in order to fill a normal
size scuba tank. They are in fact meant for much smaller air bottles as
are found on the air rifles mentioned. However, my intent was to be
able to directly attach to your aircraft and fill those bottles, slowly
enough in fact that it will give a chance for the aircraft=99s
built in pop-off valve to operate. If I was doing a ton of cross
country flying like I used to do in my 50, I=99d figure out a
mount for one of these things. But I=99m lucky enough that I
don=99t need to do that anymore.
To those that do try to refill scuba tanks anyway with these small
compressors . be aware they won=99t last long.
Mark
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mark
Bitterlich
Sent: Thursday, November 19, 2020 7:01 PM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Re: Yak52TW stranded, anyone have Air near
Winslow, AZ?
This has been a nice thread, and I=99ve learned a few things from
it.. so thanks.
I have to say that I like the idea of having dual start, and George is
dead on about the difficulties of finding high pressure air.
But I have been toying with another idea. Ever since I retired with the
Prowlers last year, my source of dry water pumped nitrogen has dried
up, but it was nice while it lasted. I have been looking at the Pyramid
high pressure (relatively) low volume air compressor normally used to
pressurize their really cool air rifles. By the way, they have .45 and
.357 air rifles at pretty respectable velocities. I want one. Anyway,
some of them use small 3000 PSI bottles built into the gun itself and
are refilled by compressors capable of 4500 PSI (!!!). Yes, 4,500
PSI holy cow.
Check this out:
https://www.pyramydair.com/a/Accessories/PCP/Compressors/715
So you=99re looking at 20 pounds or so. I have not given thought
to reality, as in =9Cwhere do I mount this thing?=9D, etc.
Or do I even want to mount it? But I sure do want one in the hangar!
Not exactly cheap at $700 or so but . Again, I WANT one.
Worth thinking about anyway.
Mark
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of George
Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2020 11:29 AM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Re: Yak52TW stranded, anyone have Air near
Winslow, AZ?
Richard,
The Electric start / dual start was a decision that I made. As you may
recall, I bought 10 new Yak-52 in late 1995. In 1998, I made a follow on
order for 12 more aircraft and had Aerostar develop the Yak 52W. (and
later the Yak 52TW). It was my specifications for the
=9CW=9D version to Aerostar. We were making an aircraft more
acceptable to the western market. The significant changes were more
fuel, hydraulic brakes, western radios etc.
One for the changes we offered to our customers was the electric start.
The thinking was that electric start provided a more comfortable way for
most western users. It also eliminated the need to carry spare
compressed air when traveling away from home base. We here in the states
tended to fly these aircraft away from home base. My thinking was you
could pretty much always find a set of jumper cables at any airport, but
seldom find high pressure compressed air. The aircraft still needed air
for the gear and flaps, the dual start was offered as an option.
George Coy
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
<owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com> On Behalf Of Richard Goode
Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2020 6:17 AM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Re: Yak52TW stranded, anyone have Air near
Winslow, AZ?
I was always surprised by the decision of Aerostar to make the 52W and
TW with both electric and air start. I assumed it was to encourage
Americans who were not familiar with air start into owning Yaks, but in
any aircraft, it does seem to me bizarre to significantly increase the
weight of the aircraft with no real advantage, by installing both
systems. For reasons that are total bureaucracy and nothing to do with
safety, I don't think there are any 52W or TW in Europe, and I'm not
sure if there is a centre of gravity issue whereby having the starter
motor; ring gear at the front of the aircraft is helpful. But certainly,
if I had the choice, I would go for air-start alone any time, and in an
aeroplane that has been properly maintained and a pilot who knows how to
operate the air start, it will always work! The problem is pilots who
think that the air start is like an electric motor, and if the engine
doesn't start immediately, continue to keep it turning on the air. Of
course with each revolution, the fuel mixture completely changes and it
will never start!
Richard
RICHARD GOODE AEROBATICS
Rhodds Farm, Lyonshall, Hereford, HR5 3LW, UK
Tel: +44 (0)1544 340120 Fax: +44 (0)1544 340129
e-mail: <mailto:richard.goode@russianaeros.com>
richard.goode@russianaeros.com
www.russianaeros.com
WORLD LEADERS IN RUSSIAN SPORTING AIRCRAFT & ENGINES
In partnership with Aerometal Kft, Hungary.
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
<owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com> On Behalf Of "
Sent: 18 November 2020 00:28
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: Yak52TW stranded, anyone have Air near
Winslow, AZ?
The only thing I can add is you want to assure your footing. Loose
gravel, iceie or slippery surface or even poor footing because of foot
wear.
Jim "Pappy" Goolsby
_____
On Tuesday, November 17, 2020 mark bitterlich <yak-list@matronics.com>
wrote:
The only problem with electric start is battery capacity. What most Yak
owners put in place of the original NiCAD battery won't hack the rather
massive current draw of a starter motor. Nothing wrong with the idea
though.... I've seen it work well.
Mark
P.s. I've seen that "Indian rope trick" in action. It was used to pull
props through to get oil out on bigger radials a lot. Never seen it used
to start one. I have visions of the engine pop starting, ripping the
rope out of hand, rope wrapping around prop hub, etc. I've propped high
compression IO550's safely. Standing behind the prop as Dennis mentioned
works well, also standing sideways in front on the prop, reaching down
with one hand and grabbing the prop end with one hand and pull as you
walk away from the prop.
Bottom line, no matter how you do it there is some kind of "Danger
Close" quite literally at hand. But when you have no other choice, it is
best not to have to attempt it for the first time. Also, leather gloves
are good to have available.
-------- Original message --------
From: dbflr <le_vix@hotmail.com>
Subject: Yak-List: Re: Yak52TW stranded, anyone have Air near Winslow,
AZ?
there's much safer and more efficient way of doing it than pulling a
live prop by hand. grab a piece of rope and make a pocket at one end to
envelope blade's tip, but not tight so it can slip when prop rotates
about 90deg. then pull from a distance. actually it's a standard
"ground support" tool for bigger radials.
or get rid of air start system completely. just fuggedaboutit ! have
almost new electric start kit if anyone is interested
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=499412#499412
<brsp; - MAT - NEW MATRONICS LISTp;
-Matt Dralle, List
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Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Yak52TW stranded, anyone have Air near Winslow, AZ? |
Remember.......a small refrigerator or small window a/c compressor will put u
p over 500 psi.
Sent from my iPad
> On Nov 20, 2020, at 1:32 PM, Mark Bitterlich <markbitterlich@embarqmail.co
m> wrote:
>
> A good friend from this list mentioned to me that it would be inadvisable t
o use these compressors to fill scuba tanks for the main reason that it woul
d bypass the (safety) necessity of having the scuba tanks inspected and cert
ified before being filled. He=99s correct of course, hence me writing
this note.
>
> Another thing to keep in mind is that these compressors get very hot, and t
hey are not meant to run for hours on end in order to fill a normal size scu
ba tank. They are in fact meant for much smaller air bottles as are found o
n the air rifles mentioned. However, my intent was to be able to directly a
ttach to your aircraft and fill those bottles, slowly enough in fact that it
will give a chance for the aircraft=99s built in pop-off valve to ope
rate. If I was doing a ton of cross country flying like I used to do in my 5
0, I=99d figure out a mount for one of these things. But I=99m
lucky enough that I don=99t need to do that anymore.
>
> To those that do try to refill scuba tanks anyway with these small compres
sors . be aware they won=99t last long.
>
> Mark
>
>
> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@ma
tronics.com] On Behalf Of Mark Bitterlich
> Sent: Thursday, November 19, 2020 7:01 PM
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: Yak-List: Re: Yak52TW stranded, anyone have Air near Winslow,
AZ?
>
> This has been a nice thread, and I=99ve learned a few things from i
t.. so thanks.
>
> I have to say that I like the idea of having dual start, and George is dea
d on about the difficulties of finding high pressure air.
>
> But I have been toying with another idea. Ever since I retired with the P
rowlers last year, my source of dry water pumped nitrogen has dried up, but
it was nice while it lasted. I have been looking at the Pyramid high press
ure (relatively) low volume air compressor normally used to pressurize their
really cool air rifles. By the way, they have .45 and .357 air rifles at p
retty respectable velocities. I want one. Anyway, some of them use small 3
000 PSI bottles built into the gun itself and are refilled by compressors ca
pable of 4500 PSI (!!!). Yes, 4,500 PSI holy cow.
>
> Check this out:
>
> https://www.pyramydair.com/a/Accessories/PCP/Compressors/715
>
> So you=99re looking at 20 pounds or so. I have not given thought to
reality, as in =9Cwhere do I mount this thing?=9D, etc. Or do
I even want to mount it? But I sure do want one in the hangar! Not exact
ly cheap at $700 or so but . Again, I WANT one.
>
> Worth thinking about anyway.
>
> Mark
>
>
> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@ma
tronics.com] On Behalf Of George
> Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2020 11:29 AM
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: Yak-List: Re: Yak52TW stranded, anyone have Air near Winslow,
AZ?
>
> Richard,
> The Electric start / dual start was a decision that I made. As you may rec
all, I bought 10 new Yak-52 in late 1995. In 1998, I made a follow on order f
or 12 more aircraft and had Aerostar develop the Yak 52W. (and later the Yak
52TW). It was my specifications for the =9CW=9D version to Aero
star. We were making an aircraft more acceptable to the western market. The s
ignificant changes were more fuel, hydraulic brakes, western radios etc.
> One for the changes we offered to our customers was the electric start. Th
e thinking was that electric start provided a more comfortable way for most w
estern users. It also eliminated the need to carry spare compressed air when
traveling away from home base. We here in the states tended to fly these ai
rcraft away from home base. My thinking was you could pretty much always fin
d a set of jumper cables at any airport, but seldom find high pressure compr
essed air. The aircraft still needed air for the gear and flaps, the dual st
art was offered as an option.
>
> George Coy
> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com <owner-yak-list-server@matronics
.com> On Behalf Of Richard Goode
> Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2020 6:17 AM
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: Yak-List: Re: Yak52TW stranded, anyone have Air near Winslow,
AZ?
>
> I was always surprised by the decision of Aerostar to make the 52W and TW w
ith both electric and air start. I assumed it was to encourage Americans who
were not familiar with air start into owning Yaks, but in any aircraft, it d
oes seem to me bizarre to significantly increase the weight of the aircraft w
ith no real advantage, by installing both systems. For reasons that are tota
l bureaucracy and nothing to do with safety, I don't think there are any 52W
or TW in Europe, and I'm not sure if there is a centre of gravity issue whe
reby having the starter motor; ring gear at the front of the aircraft is hel
pful. But certainly, if I had the choice, I would go for air-start alone any
time, and in an aeroplane that has been properly maintained and a pilot who
knows how to operate the air start, it will always work! The problem is pil
ots who think that the air start is like an electric motor, and if the engin
e doesn't start immediately, continue to keep it turning on the air. Of cour
se with each revolution, the fuel mixture completely changes and it will nev
er start!
>
> Richard
>
>
> RICHARD GOODE AEROBATICS
> Rhodds Farm, Lyonshall, Hereford, HR5 3LW, UK
> Tel: +44 (0)1544 340120 Fax: +44 (0)1544 340129
> e-mail: richard.goode@russianaeros.com
> www.russianaeros.com
> WORLD LEADERS IN RUSSIAN SPORTING AIRCRAFT & ENGINES
> In partnership with Aerometal Kft, Hungary.
>
> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com <owner-yak-list-server@matronics
.com> On Behalf Of "
> Sent: 18 November 2020 00:28
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: Yak52TW stranded, anyone have Air near Winslow,
AZ?
>
> The only thing I can add is you want to assure your footing. Loose gravel
, iceie or slippery surface or even poor footing because of foot wear.
>
> Jim "Pappy" Goolsby
>
> On Tuesday, November 17, 2020 mark bitterlich <yak-list@matronics.com> wro
te:
>
> The only problem with electric start is battery capacity. What most Yak ow
ners put in place of the original NiCAD battery won't hack the rather massiv
e current draw of a starter motor. Nothing wrong with the idea though.... I'
ve seen it work well.
>
>
>
> Mark
>
>
>
> P.s. I've seen that "Indian rope trick" in action. It was used to pull pr
ops through to get oil out on bigger radials a lot. Never seen it used to st
art one. I have visions of the engine pop starting, ripping the rope out of h
and, rope wrapping around prop hub, etc. I've propped high compression IO55
0's safely. Standing behind the prop as Dennis mentioned works well, also st
anding sideways in front on the prop, reaching down with one hand and grabbi
ng the prop end with one hand and pull as you walk away from the prop.
>
>
>
> Bottom line, no matter how you do it there is some kind of "Danger Close" q
uite literally at hand. But when you have no other choice, it is best not to
have to attempt it for the first time. Also, leather gloves are good to hav
e available.
>
>
>
> -------- Original message --------
>
> From: dbflr <le_vix@hotmail.com>
>
> Date: 11/17/20 15:56 (GMT-05:00)
>
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
>
> Subject: Yak-List: Re: Yak52TW stranded, anyone have Air near Winslow, AZ?
>
>
>
>
> there's much safer and more efficient way of doing it than pulling a live p
rop by hand. grab a piece of rope and make a pocket at one end to envelope b
lade's tip, but not tight so it can slip when prop rotates about 90deg. the
n pull from a distance. actually it's a standard "ground support" tool for b
igger radials.
>
> or get rid of air start system completely. just fuggedaboutit ! have almo
st new electric start kit if anyone is interested
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=499412#499412
>
> <brsp; - MAT - NEW MATRONICS LISTp;
-Matt Dralle, List Ad-=================
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