Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 02:47 AM - Re: Re: Housai engine question: compression check (C & D B)
2. 04:47 AM - Re: Re: Housai engine question: compression check (A. Dennis Savarese)
3. 05:04 AM - Re: Re: Housai engine question: compression check (A. Dennis Savarese)
4. 06:48 AM - Re: Re: Housai engine question: compression check (bill wade)
5. 06:49 AM - Re: Re: Housai engine question: compression check (Greg Wrobel)
6. 06:55 AM - Re: Housai engine question: compression check (Justin Drafts)
7. 07:06 AM - Re: Housai engine question: compression check (Justin Drafts)
8. 07:52 AM - Re: Housai engine question: compression check (Mark Pennington)
9. 08:01 AM - Re: Rumor has it.. (Top Ace)
10. 08:05 AM - Re: Housai engine question: compression check (Larry Pine)
11. 08:12 AM - Re: Re: Rumor has it.. (A. Dennis Savarese)
12. 08:19 AM - Re: Re: Rumor has it.. (Richard Goode)
13. 08:25 AM - Re: Housai engine question: compression check (Justin Drafts)
14. 08:28 AM - Re: Housai engine question: compression check (Anthony Savarese)
15. 08:33 AM - Re: Housai engine question: compression check (Anthony Savarese)
16. 08:34 AM - Re: Housai engine question: compression check (Justin Drafts)
17. 08:40 AM - Re: Housai engine question: compression check (Justin Drafts)
18. 09:28 AM - Re: Sighting Device for Yak 55M (FrankJScott)
19. 10:09 AM - Re: Re: Housai engine question: compression check (Walter Lannon)
20. 10:28 AM - Re: Rumor has it.. (Top Ace)
21. 10:46 AM - Re: Housai engine question: compression check (Walter Lannon)
22. 10:47 AM - Re: Yak-52 (FrankJScott)
23. 11:00 AM - Re: Housai engine question: compression check (Justin Drafts)
24. 11:17 AM - Re: Housai engine question: compression check (Walter Lannon)
25. 11:25 AM - Re: Housai engine question: compression check (Walter Lannon)
26. 03:08 PM - Re: Re: Housai engine question: compression check (Robin Hou)
27. 03:41 PM - Re: Re: Housai engine question: compression check (Mark Bitterlich)
28. 06:29 PM - Re: Re: Housai engine question: compression check (Justin Drafts)
29. 07:14 PM - Re: Re: Housai engine question: compression check (Jon Boede)
30. 07:49 PM - Re: Re: Housai engine question: compression check (Justin Drafts)
31. 08:20 PM - Re: Re: Housai engine question: compression check (David King)
32. 09:42 PM - Re: Re: Housai engine question: compression check (Justin Drafts)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Housai engine question: compression check |
Hi Justin,
I can=99t speak for the Housai, but I had the identical thing on
my M-14P.
Check your valve clearances. I found mine were a little tight. After
adjustment, problem solved.
Failing that, give the top of the valves a whack with a plastic faced
hammer to unseat them a few times. This will dislodge any debris that
might be holding the valve slightly open.
I hope this helps.
Regards
Chris
PlaneWorx.co <http://planeworx.co/>.nz
> On 29/04/2021, at 3:58 PM, Justin Drafts <draftsjust417@gmail.com>
wrote:
>
> Good evening all-
>
> A conundrum for you Housai engine experts; I need some advice to go
fwd.
> Doing the compression check today, I hit a weird wall.
>
> With a partner I was checking cylinders starting with #1 at top, going
CW when viewed from cockpit.
> All #'s were good (avg 75/80 psi), until I got the last cylinder, #2.
We got 0 psi on the pressure gauge.
>
> Checking the pressure tester/gauges/fittings/hose, all are fine and
perfectly functional.
>
> So we double checked the previous cylinder, which had just 10 min
prior tested at 74/80 psi.... now it also
> showed 0/80 psi. ??
> No obvious air leaks from oil breather, carburetor, or exhaust stack;
no oil evident at bases of the cylinders;
> the exhaust and intake stacks are good condition. I had flown the
plane earlier in the day w/o any negative
> indications.
>
> Pulled the valve covers off to find the rocker arms, springs, etc in
great condition, doing their job when we
> slowly turned the prop thru by hand.
>
> Stuck valves?
>
> We tried the "rope trick" to slip a nylon cord into the cylinder thru
the open sparkplug hole, then gently run
> the piston up to TDC to try to reseat the possibly stuck-open valves.
As yet, no help.
>
> Fishing for advice & thoughts... what are we missing?
> I've never seen a 0/80 psi reading... a bad piston ring or bad valve,
should have SOME psi indication 30~60psi.
>
> Thoughts? Pointers?
> Thanks---
>
> Justin Drafts
> N280NC
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Housai engine question: compression check |
When you had the valve covers off on #2, did you check the valve lash at T
DC?=C2- Should be between .25 and .35 mm or .010 - .014.Dennis
On Thursday, April 29, 2021, 12:01:41 AM EDT, Justin Drafts <draftsjust
417@gmail.com> wrote:
Good evening all-
A conundrum for you Housai engine experts; I need some advice to go fwd.Doi
ng the compression check today, I hit a weird wall.
With a partner I was checking cylinders starting=C2-with #1 at top, going
CW when viewed from cockpit.=C2-All #'s were good (avg 75/80 psi), until
I got the last cylinder, #2.=C2- We got 0 psi on the pressure gauge.=C2
-=C2-
Checking the pressure tester/gauges/fittings/hose, all are fine and perfect
ly functional.=C2-
So we double checked the previous cylinder, which had just 10 min prior tes
ted at 74/80 psi.... now it also=C2-showed 0/80 psi. ??No obvious air lea
ks from oil breather, carburetor, or exhaust stack; no oil evident at bases
of the cylinders;=C2-the exhaust and intake stacks are good condition.
=C2-I had flown the plane earlier in the day w/o any negative=C2-indica
tions.
Pulled the valve covers off to find the rocker arms, springs, etc in great
condition,=C2-doing their=C2-job when we=C2-slowly turned the prop th
ru by hand.
Stuck valves?=C2-
We tried the "rope trick" to slip a nylon cord into the cylinder thru the o
pen sparkplug hole, then gently run=C2-the piston up to TDC to try to res
eat the possibly stuck-open valves.=C2- As yet, no help.=C2-
Fishing for advice & thoughts... what are we missing?=C2-I've never seen
a 0/80 psi reading... a bad piston ring or bad valve, should have SOME psi
indication 30~60psi.
Thoughts?=C2- Pointers?Thanks---
Justin DraftsN280NC
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Housai engine question: compression check |
Also check the the air injector to make sure it is fully closed. It
too
has a very small valve inside of it about the size of a pencil eraser.
If the little valve spring is broken or the valve remains open, it will
of course affect the compression test.
Dennis
A. Dennis Savarese
334-546-8182
www.yak-52.com
On 4/28/2021 11:58 PM, Justin Drafts wrote:
> Good evening all-
>
> A conundrum for you Housai engine experts; I need some advice to go fwd.
> Doing the compression check today, I hit a weird wall.
>
> With a partner I was checking cylinders startingwith #1 at top, going
> CW when viewed from cockpit.
> All #'s were good (avg 75/80 psi), until I got the last cylinder, #2.
> We got 0 psi on the pressure gauge.
>
> Checking the pressure tester/gauges/fittings/hose, all are fine and
> perfectly functional.
>
> So we double checked the previous cylinder, which had just 10 min
> prior tested at 74/80 psi.... now it also
> showed 0/80 psi. ??
> No obvious air leaks from oil breather, carburetor, or exhaust stack;
> no oil evident at bases of the cylinders;
> the exhaust and intake stacks are good condition. I had flown the
> plane earlier in the day w/o any negative
> indications.
>
> Pulled the valve covers off to find the rocker arms, springs, etc in
> great condition,doing theirjob when we
> slowly turned the prop thru by hand.
>
> Stuck valves?
>
> We tried the "rope trick" to slip a nylon cord into the cylinder thru
> the open sparkplug hole, then gently run
> the piston up to TDC to try to reseat the possibly stuck-open valves.
> As yet, no help.
>
> Fishing for advice & thoughts... what are we missing?
> I've never seen a 0/80 psi reading... a bad piston ring or bad valve,
> should have SOME psi indication 30~60psi.
>
> Thoughts? Pointers?
> Thanks---
>
> Justin Drafts
> N280NC
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Housai engine question: compression check |
Justin on your next compression test start at 1 go to 3, 5, 7, 9, 2, 4, 6,
8, the reason being you only need to move the prop a few deg to be TDC on
compression stroke at the next cylinder. Also what kind of air flow do you
have with your tester? Valves should be quite evident with the sound of air
coming out the exhaust or carb, you don't want to hear it feel it at the b
reather that's BAD.=C2- Maybe take the tester out of the equation and inj
ect air into the cylinder to find the direction of the leak as 0/80 is a ve
ry good flow?
On Thursday, April 29, 2021, 12:10:19 AM EDT, Justin Drafts <draftsjust
417@gmail.com> wrote:
Good evening all-
A conundrum for you Housai engine experts; I need some advice to go fwd.Doi
ng the compression check today, I hit a weird wall.
With a partner I was checking cylinders starting=C2-with #1 at top, going
CW when viewed from cockpit.=C2-All #'s were good (avg 75/80 psi), until
I got the last cylinder, #2.=C2- We got 0 psi on the pressure gauge.=C2
-=C2-
Checking the pressure tester/gauges/fittings/hose, all are fine and perfect
ly functional.=C2-
So we double checked the previous cylinder, which had just 10 min prior tes
ted at 74/80 psi.... now it also=C2-showed 0/80 psi. ??No obvious air lea
ks from oil breather, carburetor, or exhaust stack; no oil evident at bases
of the cylinders;=C2-the exhaust and intake stacks are good condition.
=C2-I had flown the plane earlier in the day w/o any negative=C2-indica
tions.
Pulled the valve covers off to find the rocker arms, springs, etc in great
condition,=C2-doing their=C2-job when we=C2-slowly turned the prop th
ru by hand.
Stuck valves?=C2-
We tried the "rope trick" to slip a nylon cord into the cylinder thru the o
pen sparkplug hole, then gently run=C2-the piston up to TDC to try to res
eat the possibly stuck-open valves.=C2- As yet, no help.=C2-
Fishing for advice & thoughts... what are we missing?=C2-I've never seen
a 0/80 psi reading... a bad piston ring or bad valve, should have SOME psi
indication 30~60psi.
Thoughts?=C2- Pointers?Thanks---
Justin DraftsN280NC
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Housai engine question: compression check |
Ok, I may need some help here. It's early, I haven't had my coffee yet and
I am but the sharpest knife in the drawer. I saw where you started at the
#1 cylinder and went counter clockwise. Then you said you got on the last
cylinder (#2) and you started showing problems. The firing order is
1,3,5,7,9,2,4,6,8. In my simple world the last compression check should
have been #8. Any chance you are just out of sequence?
Greg "Clouddog" Wrobel
On Thu, Apr 29, 2021, 00:03 Justin Drafts <draftsjust417@gmail.com> wrote:
> Good evening all-
>
> A conundrum for you Housai engine experts; I need some advice to go fwd.
> Doing the compression check today, I hit a weird wall.
>
> With a partner I was checking cylinders starting with #1 at top, going CW
> when viewed from cockpit.
> All #'s were good (avg 75/80 psi), until I got the last cylinder, #2. We
> got 0 psi on the pressure gauge.
>
> Checking the pressure tester/gauges/fittings/hose, all are fine and
> perfectly functional.
>
> So we double checked the previous cylinder, which had just 10 min prior
> tested at 74/80 psi.... now it also
> showed 0/80 psi. ??
> No obvious air leaks from oil breather, carburetor, or exhaust stack; no
> oil evident at bases of the cylinders;
> the exhaust and intake stacks are good condition. I had flown the plane
> earlier in the day w/o any negative
> indications.
>
> Pulled the valve covers off to find the rocker arms, springs, etc in great
> condition, doing their job when we
> slowly turned the prop thru by hand.
>
> Stuck valves?
>
> We tried the "rope trick" to slip a nylon cord into the cylinder thru the
> open sparkplug hole, then gently run
> the piston up to TDC to try to reseat the possibly stuck-open valves. As
> yet, no help.
>
> Fishing for advice & thoughts... what are we missing?
> I've never seen a 0/80 psi reading... a bad piston ring or bad valve,
> should have SOME psi indication 30~60psi.
>
> Thoughts? Pointers?
> Thanks---
>
> Justin Drafts
> N280NC
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Housai engine question: compression check |
Ah, the air injector, good point.
That is, the small thimble sized aluminum input line on the top front of
each cylinder? (Want to make sure I understand the line you're speaking of.)
I've never had one apart... how are they disassembled & serviced?
Thanks--
Justin
On Thu, Apr 29, 2021, 5:09 AM A. Dennis Savarese <
dsavarese0812@bellsouth.net> wrote:
> dsavarese0812@bellsouth.net>
>
> Also check the the air injector to make sure it is fully closed. It
> too
> has a very small valve inside of it about the size of a pencil eraser.
> If the little valve spring is broken or the valve remains open, it will
> of course affect the compression test.
> Dennis
>
> A. Dennis Savarese
> 334-546-8182
> www.yak-52.com
>
> On 4/28/2021 11:58 PM, Justin Drafts wrote:
> > Good evening all-
> >
> > A conundrum for you Housai engine experts; I need some advice to go fwd.
> > Doing the compression check today, I hit a weird wall.
> >
> > With a partner I was checking cylinders starting with #1 at top, going
> > CW when viewed from cockpit.
> > All #'s were good (avg 75/80 psi), until I got the last cylinder, #2.
> > We got 0 psi on the pressure gauge.
> >
> > Checking the pressure tester/gauges/fittings/hose, all are fine and
> > perfectly functional.
> >
> > So we double checked the previous cylinder, which had just 10 min
> > prior tested at 74/80 psi.... now it also
> > showed 0/80 psi. ??
> > No obvious air leaks from oil breather, carburetor, or exhaust stack;
> > no oil evident at bases of the cylinders;
> > the exhaust and intake stacks are good condition. I had flown the
> > plane earlier in the day w/o any negative
> > indications.
> >
> > Pulled the valve covers off to find the rocker arms, springs, etc in
> > great condition, doing their job when we
> > slowly turned the prop thru by hand.
> >
> > Stuck valves?
> >
> > We tried the "rope trick" to slip a nylon cord into the cylinder thru
> > the open sparkplug hole, then gently run
> > the piston up to TDC to try to reseat the possibly stuck-open valves.
> > As yet, no help.
> >
> > Fishing for advice & thoughts... what are we missing?
> > I've never seen a 0/80 psi reading... a bad piston ring or bad valve,
> > should have SOME psi indication 30~60psi.
> >
> > Thoughts? Pointers?
> > Thanks---
> >
> > Justin Drafts
> > N280NC
>
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Housai engine question: compression check |
Thanks for all the quick replies folks... going to the hangar in a bit for
round 2.
I did try the rubber mallet approach to try and wallop the valves into
obedience, no luck but might need to try again.
Mm, I've always had success feeling for the tell-tale puff of air out the
open sparkplug hole to indicate the piston was starting it's way up on
compression stroke, then finalize the tdc sweet spot (slight prop rotation)
under ~40psi.
Once there, raise press to 80psi...
Has always worked well w/ consistent #'s, until yesterday.
With the 0/80 psi reading, esp on a cylinder I'd just checked at 74/80 psi,
I *lean* to Dennis' idea of a stuck-open air input line. ?
But, not sure... I confess I'm a novice on in depth engine issues.
Justin
On Thu, Apr 29, 2021, 6:54 AM Greg Wrobel <clouddog22@gmail.com> wrote:
> Ok, I may need some help here. It's early, I haven't had my coffee yet and
> I am but the sharpest knife in the drawer. I saw where you started at the
> #1 cylinder and went counter clockwise. Then you said you got on the last
> cylinder (#2) and you started showing problems. The firing order is
> 1,3,5,7,9,2,4,6,8. In my simple world the last compression check should
> have been #8. Any chance you are just out of sequence?
>
> Greg "Clouddog" Wrobel
>
> On Thu, Apr 29, 2021, 00:03 Justin Drafts <draftsjust417@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Good evening all-
>>
>> A conundrum for you Housai engine experts; I need some advice to go fwd.
>> Doing the compression check today, I hit a weird wall.
>>
>> With a partner I was checking cylinders starting with #1 at top, going CW
>> when viewed from cockpit.
>> All #'s were good (avg 75/80 psi), until I got the last cylinder, #2. We
>> got 0 psi on the pressure gauge.
>>
>> Checking the pressure tester/gauges/fittings/hose, all are fine and
>> perfectly functional.
>>
>> So we double checked the previous cylinder, which had just 10 min prior
>> tested at 74/80 psi.... now it also
>> showed 0/80 psi. ??
>> No obvious air leaks from oil breather, carburetor, or exhaust stack; no
>> oil evident at bases of the cylinders;
>> the exhaust and intake stacks are good condition. I had flown the plane
>> earlier in the day w/o any negative
>> indications.
>>
>> Pulled the valve covers off to find the rocker arms, springs, etc in
>> great condition, doing their job when we
>> slowly turned the prop thru by hand.
>>
>> Stuck valves?
>>
>> We tried the "rope trick" to slip a nylon cord into the cylinder thru the
>> open sparkplug hole, then gently run
>> the piston up to TDC to try to reseat the possibly stuck-open valves. As
>> yet, no help.
>>
>> Fishing for advice & thoughts... what are we missing?
>> I've never seen a 0/80 psi reading... a bad piston ring or bad valve,
>> should have SOME psi indication 30~60psi.
>>
>> Thoughts? Pointers?
>> Thanks---
>>
>> Justin Drafts
>> N280NC
>>
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Housai engine question: compression check |
Justin
I can't agree more that Dennis is on top of his radial engine info for
sure, he has made my life easier on more than one occasion. The one thing
that I haven't seen in the thread is you have confirmed your test equipment
didn't die. The reason I ask is you dont hear air anywhere resulting in
the very low reading.. Do you get a good compression check on any cylinders
at this point.????? Also, based on my education from Dennis, following the
firing order for a compression check is preferable.
With the experience you have from the past etc. I would check my
compression checker.... Hope you find the issue. Please share with the
group once you know.
Mark Pennington
N621CJ
On Thu, Apr 29, 2021 at 10:11 AM Justin Drafts <draftsjust417@gmail.com>
wrote:
> Thanks for all the quick replies folks... going to the hangar in a bit for
> round 2.
>
> I did try the rubber mallet approach to try and wallop the valves into
> obedience, no luck but might need to try again.
>
> Mm, I've always had success feeling for the tell-tale puff of air out the
> open sparkplug hole to indicate the piston was starting it's way up on
> compression stroke, then finalize the tdc sweet spot (slight prop rotation)
> under ~40psi.
> Once there, raise press to 80psi...
> Has always worked well w/ consistent #'s, until yesterday.
>
> With the 0/80 psi reading, esp on a cylinder I'd just checked at 74/80
> psi, I *lean* to Dennis' idea of a stuck-open air input line. ?
> But, not sure... I confess I'm a novice on in depth engine issues.
> Justin
>
> On Thu, Apr 29, 2021, 6:54 AM Greg Wrobel <clouddog22@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Ok, I may need some help here. It's early, I haven't had my coffee yet
>> and I am but the sharpest knife in the drawer. I saw where you started at
>> the #1 cylinder and went counter clockwise. Then you said you got on the
>> last cylinder (#2) and you started showing problems. The firing order is
>> 1,3,5,7,9,2,4,6,8. In my simple world the last compression check should
>> have been #8. Any chance you are just out of sequence?
>>
>> Greg "Clouddog" Wrobel
>>
>> On Thu, Apr 29, 2021, 00:03 Justin Drafts <draftsjust417@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Good evening all-
>>>
>>> A conundrum for you Housai engine experts; I need some advice to go fwd.
>>> Doing the compression check today, I hit a weird wall.
>>>
>>> With a partner I was checking cylinders starting with #1 at top, going
>>> CW when viewed from cockpit.
>>> All #'s were good (avg 75/80 psi), until I got the last cylinder, #2.
>>> We got 0 psi on the pressure gauge.
>>>
>>> Checking the pressure tester/gauges/fittings/hose, all are fine and
>>> perfectly functional.
>>>
>>> So we double checked the previous cylinder, which had just 10 min prior
>>> tested at 74/80 psi.... now it also
>>> showed 0/80 psi. ??
>>> No obvious air leaks from oil breather, carburetor, or exhaust stack; no
>>> oil evident at bases of the cylinders;
>>> the exhaust and intake stacks are good condition. I had flown the plane
>>> earlier in the day w/o any negative
>>> indications.
>>>
>>> Pulled the valve covers off to find the rocker arms, springs, etc in
>>> great condition, doing their job when we
>>> slowly turned the prop thru by hand.
>>>
>>> Stuck valves?
>>>
>>> We tried the "rope trick" to slip a nylon cord into the cylinder thru
>>> the open sparkplug hole, then gently run
>>> the piston up to TDC to try to reseat the possibly stuck-open valves.
>>> As yet, no help.
>>>
>>> Fishing for advice & thoughts... what are we missing?
>>> I've never seen a 0/80 psi reading... a bad piston ring or bad valve,
>>> should have SOME psi indication 30~60psi.
>>>
>>> Thoughts? Pointers?
>>> Thanks---
>>>
>>> Justin Drafts
>>> N280NC
>>>
>>
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Rumor has it.. |
Does this rumor have a happy ending,, That they can or will overhaul Housai engines,
knowing the Chinese are not anymore.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=501563#501563
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Housai engine question: compression check |
I think you have a gauge issue, use another one if you have one. =C2-Seco
nd=C2-connect your gauges to an air source, with the cross bleed valves o
ff and not connect to a cylinder, both gauges should read the same pressure
. =C2-If that checks, then look for cylinder issues. =C2-But what you d
escribed, cylinder God than bad doesn=99t make sense. =C2-Rather po
ints to the test excellent and not the hardware. =C2-Let me know what you
find. Larry=C2-
Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
On Thursday, April 29, 2021, 07:06, Justin Drafts <draftsjust417@gmail.com>
wrote:
Thanks for all the quick replies folks... going to the hangar in a bit for
round 2.
I did try the rubber mallet approach to try and wallop the valves into obed
ience, no luck but might need to try again.=C2-
Mm, I've always had success feeling for the tell-tale puff of air out the o
pen sparkplug hole to indicate the piston was starting it's way up on compr
ession stroke, then finalize the tdc sweet spot (slight prop rotation) unde
r ~40psi.Once there,=C2- raise press to 80psi...Has always worked well w/
consistent #'s, until yesterday.
With the 0/80 psi reading, esp on a cylinder I'd just checked at 74/80 psi,
I lean to Dennis' idea of a stuck-open air input line. ?But, not sure... I
confess I'm a novice on in depth engine issues.Justin=C2-
On Thu, Apr 29, 2021, 6:54 AM Greg Wrobel <clouddog22@gmail.com> wrote:
Ok, I may need some help here. It's early, I haven't had my coffee yet and
I am but the sharpest knife in the drawer. I saw where you started at the #
1 cylinder and went counter clockwise. Then you said you got on the last cy
linder (#2) and you started showing problems. The firing order is 1,3,5,7,9
,2,4,6,8. In my simple world the last compression check should have been #8
. Any chance you are just out of sequence?
Greg "Clouddog" Wrobel
On Thu, Apr 29, 2021, 00:03 Justin Drafts <draftsjust417@gmail.com> wrote:
Good evening all-
A conundrum for you Housai engine experts; I need some advice to go fwd.Doi
ng the compression check today, I hit a weird wall.
With a partner I was checking cylinders starting=C2-with #1 at top, going
CW when viewed from cockpit.=C2-All #'s were good (avg 75/80 psi), until
I got the last cylinder, #2.=C2- We got 0 psi on the pressure gauge.=C2
-=C2-
Checking the pressure tester/gauges/fittings/hose, all are fine and perfect
ly functional.=C2-
So we double checked the previous cylinder, which had just 10 min prior tes
ted at 74/80 psi.... now it also=C2-showed 0/80 psi. ??No obvious air lea
ks from oil breather, carburetor, or exhaust stack; no oil evident at bases
of the cylinders;=C2-the exhaust and intake stacks are good condition.
=C2-I had flown the plane earlier in the day w/o any negative=C2-indica
tions.
Pulled the valve covers off to find the rocker arms, springs, etc in great
condition,=C2-doing their=C2-job when we=C2-slowly turned the prop th
ru by hand.
Stuck valves?=C2-
We tried the "rope trick" to slip a nylon cord into the cylinder thru the o
pen sparkplug hole, then gently run=C2-the piston up to TDC to try to res
eat the possibly stuck-open valves.=C2- As yet, no help.=C2-
Fishing for advice & thoughts... what are we missing?=C2-I've never seen
a 0/80 psi reading... a bad piston ring or bad valve, should have SOME psi
indication 30~60psi.
Thoughts?=C2- Pointers?Thanks---
Justin DraftsN280NC
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| Subject: | Re: Rumor has it.. |
There's no rumor to the point that Richard Goode's engine shop in Hungary
are in the process of or have already completed overhauling a Housai engine
.=C2- One thing you can count on is the overhauled Housai engine from Ric
hard Goode's shop will be superior to any Housai overhaul from anywhere els
e in the world.=C2- AND most importantly, Richard believes in one of my i
nfamous cliche's, "The selling starts after you get the order".=C2- IOW,
he stands behind everything he sells - 100%.Dennis=C2-
On Thursday, April 29, 2021, 11:03:13 AM EDT, Top Ace <topacedave@gmail
.com> wrote:
Does this rumor have a happy ending,, That they can or will overhaul Housai
engines, knowing the Chinese are not anymore.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=501563#501563
S -
WIKI -
-
=C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
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| Subject: | Re: Rumor has it.. |
As I have written before, we can overhaul the Housai engine, largely because of
it being almost identical to the AI 14 which we have been overhauling for 45
years. We are well underway with our first Housai overhaul for a Norwegian customer.
Please contact us directly for more information.
RICHARD GOODE AEROBATICS
Rhodds Farm, Lyonshall, Hereford, HR5 3LW, UK
Tel: +44 (0)1544 340120 Fax: +44 (0)1544 340129
e-mail: richard.goode@russianaeros.com
www.russianaeros.com
WORLD LEADERS IN RUSSIAN SPORTING AIRCRAFT & ENGINES
In partnership with Aerometal Kft, Hungary.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com <owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com>
On Behalf Of Top Ace
Sent: 29 April 2021 16:01
Subject: Yak-List: Re: Rumor has it..
Does this rumor have a happy ending,, That they can or will overhaul Housai engines,
knowing the Chinese are not anymore.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=501563#501563
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Housai engine question: compression check |
YES I'm perpetually grateful for all the expert advice in the group!
One day I might advance past Nanchang novice status...
Oh I wish it was my test equipment that had pooped the bed, but it read
great for 8 out of 9 cylinders, even going back to randomly check #7 again
after #2 and #3 showed that suspicious 0/80 psi reading (even tho 10 min
prior, #3 showed a very good 74/80 psi). In a failure of that magnitude, of
course the 1st and wisest resort is to question the test equipment, but
this time I'm confident, sigh, it's working well.
Will go tap the valves again, and look into the air inlet valves.
Thankfully at first insp, rocker arms, springs, etc still looked factory
new.
Good info on the check sequence, thanks all for insights.
Pls keep them coming, and will pass on any new info or solutions I find
today...
Justin
On Thu, Apr 29, 2021, 7:57 AM Mark Pennington <
pennington.construction.inc.1@gmail.com> wrote:
> Justin
>
> I can't agree more that Dennis is on top of his radial engine info for
> sure, he has made my life easier on more than one occasion. The one thing
> that I haven't seen in the thread is you have confirmed your test equipment
> didn't die. The reason I ask is you dont hear air anywhere resulting in
> the very low reading.. Do you get a good compression check on any cylinders
> at this point.????? Also, based on my education from Dennis, following the
> firing order for a compression check is preferable.
>
> With the experience you have from the past etc. I would check my
> compression checker.... Hope you find the issue. Please share with the
> group once you know.
>
> Mark Pennington
> N621CJ
>
> On Thu, Apr 29, 2021 at 10:11 AM Justin Drafts <draftsjust417@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Thanks for all the quick replies folks... going to the hangar in a bit
>> for round 2.
>>
>> I did try the rubber mallet approach to try and wallop the valves into
>> obedience, no luck but might need to try again.
>>
>> Mm, I've always had success feeling for the tell-tale puff of air out the
>> open sparkplug hole to indicate the piston was starting it's way up on
>> compression stroke, then finalize the tdc sweet spot (slight prop rotation)
>> under ~40psi.
>> Once there, raise press to 80psi...
>> Has always worked well w/ consistent #'s, until yesterday.
>>
>> With the 0/80 psi reading, esp on a cylinder I'd just checked at 74/80
>> psi, I *lean* to Dennis' idea of a stuck-open air input line. ?
>> But, not sure... I confess I'm a novice on in depth engine issues.
>> Justin
>>
>> On Thu, Apr 29, 2021, 6:54 AM Greg Wrobel <clouddog22@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Ok, I may need some help here. It's early, I haven't had my coffee yet
>>> and I am but the sharpest knife in the drawer. I saw where you started at
>>> the #1 cylinder and went counter clockwise. Then you said you got on the
>>> last cylinder (#2) and you started showing problems. The firing order is
>>> 1,3,5,7,9,2,4,6,8. In my simple world the last compression check should
>>> have been #8. Any chance you are just out of sequence?
>>>
>>> Greg "Clouddog" Wrobel
>>>
>>> On Thu, Apr 29, 2021, 00:03 Justin Drafts <draftsjust417@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Good evening all-
>>>>
>>>> A conundrum for you Housai engine experts; I need some advice to go fwd.
>>>> Doing the compression check today, I hit a weird wall.
>>>>
>>>> With a partner I was checking cylinders starting with #1 at top, going
>>>> CW when viewed from cockpit.
>>>> All #'s were good (avg 75/80 psi), until I got the last cylinder, #2.
>>>> We got 0 psi on the pressure gauge.
>>>>
>>>> Checking the pressure tester/gauges/fittings/hose, all are fine and
>>>> perfectly functional.
>>>>
>>>> So we double checked the previous cylinder, which had just 10 min prior
>>>> tested at 74/80 psi.... now it also
>>>> showed 0/80 psi. ??
>>>> No obvious air leaks from oil breather, carburetor, or exhaust stack;
>>>> no oil evident at bases of the cylinders;
>>>> the exhaust and intake stacks are good condition. I had flown the
>>>> plane earlier in the day w/o any negative
>>>> indications.
>>>>
>>>> Pulled the valve covers off to find the rocker arms, springs, etc in
>>>> great condition, doing their job when we
>>>> slowly turned the prop thru by hand.
>>>>
>>>> Stuck valves?
>>>>
>>>> We tried the "rope trick" to slip a nylon cord into the cylinder thru
>>>> the open sparkplug hole, then gently run
>>>> the piston up to TDC to try to reseat the possibly stuck-open valves.
>>>> As yet, no help.
>>>>
>>>> Fishing for advice & thoughts... what are we missing?
>>>> I've never seen a 0/80 psi reading... a bad piston ring or bad valve,
>>>> should have SOME psi indication 30~60psi.
>>>>
>>>> Thoughts? Pointers?
>>>> Thanks---
>>>>
>>>> Justin Drafts
>>>> N280NC
>>>>
>>>
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Housai engine question: compression check |
Try this. Bring the dead cylinder up to TDC. Then without using the compres
sion tester, connect the compressor line directly to the plug adapter you us
e to do the compression test. If you can adjust the output pressure on the c
ompressor, start at zero and slowly increase the pressure while listening ca
refully for any air leaks at the dead cylinder. As you increase the pressure
from the compressor, if there is an air leak from an exhaust valve, you
=99ll hear it clearly out of the exhaust stack. If it=99s an intake va
lve, listen at the throat of the carburetor. If it=99s an air injecto
r you=99ll hear I at the injector=99s banjo fitting.
Dennis
Sent from my iPhone
> On Apr 29, 2021, at 10:08 AM, Justin Drafts <draftsjust417@gmail.com> wrot
e:
>
> =EF=BB
> Thanks for all the quick replies folks... going to the hangar in a bit for
round 2.
>
> I did try the rubber mallet approach to try and wallop the valves into obe
dience, no luck but might need to try again.
>
> Mm, I've always had success feeling for the tell-tale puff of air out the o
pen sparkplug hole to indicate the piston was starting it's way up on compre
ssion stroke, then finalize the tdc sweet spot (slight prop rotation) under ~
40psi.
> Once there, raise press to 80psi...
> Has always worked well w/ consistent #'s, until yesterday.
>
> With the 0/80 psi reading, esp on a cylinder I'd just checked at 74/80 psi
, I lean to Dennis' idea of a stuck-open air input line. ?
> But, not sure... I confess I'm a novice on in depth engine issues.
> Justin
>
>> On Thu, Apr 29, 2021, 6:54 AM Greg Wrobel <clouddog22@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Ok, I may need some help here. It's early, I haven't had my coffee yet an
d I am but the sharpest knife in the drawer. I saw where you started at the #
1 cylinder and went counter clockwise. Then you said you got on the last cyl
inder (#2) and you started showing problems. The firing order is 1,3,5,7,9,2
,4,6,8. In my simple world the last compression check should have been #8. A
ny chance you are just out of sequence?
>>
>> Greg "Clouddog" Wrobel
>>
>>> On Thu, Apr 29, 2021, 00:03 Justin Drafts <draftsjust417@gmail.com> wrot
e:
>>> Good evening all-
>>>
>>> A conundrum for you Housai engine experts; I need some advice to go fwd.
>>> Doing the compression check today, I hit a weird wall.
>>>
>>> With a partner I was checking cylinders starting with #1 at top, going C
W when viewed from cockpit.
>>> All #'s were good (avg 75/80 psi), until I got the last cylinder, #2. W
e got 0 psi on the pressure gauge.
>>>
>>> Checking the pressure tester/gauges/fittings/hose, all are fine and perf
ectly functional.
>>>
>>> So we double checked the previous cylinder, which had just 10 min prior t
ested at 74/80 psi.... now it also
>>> showed 0/80 psi. ??
>>> No obvious air leaks from oil breather, carburetor, or exhaust stack; no
oil evident at bases of the cylinders;
>>> the exhaust and intake stacks are good condition. I had flown the plane
earlier in the day w/o any negative
>>> indications.
>>>
>>> Pulled the valve covers off to find the rocker arms, springs, etc in gre
at condition, doing their job when we
>>> slowly turned the prop thru by hand.
>>>
>>> Stuck valves?
>>>
>>> We tried the "rope trick" to slip a nylon cord into the cylinder thru th
e open sparkplug hole, then gently run
>>> the piston up to TDC to try to reseat the possibly stuck-open valves. A
s yet, no help.
>>>
>>> Fishing for advice & thoughts... what are we missing?
>>> I've never seen a 0/80 psi reading... a bad piston ring or bad valve, sh
ould have SOME psi indication 30~60psi.
>>>
>>> Thoughts? Pointers?
>>> Thanks---
>>>
>>> Justin Drafts
>>> N280NC
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Housai engine question: compression check |
Try hitting the rocker arms with the rubber mallet when you have air pressur
e on the cylinder. It should have a pretty loud =9Cpop=9D when y
ou strike the rocker arm.
Don=99t forget to check the valve lash. This is very important. Especi
ally if a valve is tight.
Dennis
Sent from my iPhone
> On Apr 29, 2021, at 11:28 AM, Anthony Savarese <dsavarese0812@bellsouth.ne
t> wrote:
>
> =EF=BBTry this. Bring the dead cylinder up to TDC. Then without using t
he compression tester, connect the compressor line directly to the plug adap
ter you use to do the compression test. If you can adjust the output pressur
e on the compressor, start at zero and slowly increase the pressure while li
stening carefully for any air leaks at the dead cylinder. As you increase th
e pressure from the compressor, if there is an air leak from an exhaust valv
e, you=99ll hear it clearly out of the exhaust stack. If it=99s a
n intake valve, listen at the throat of the carburetor. If it=99s an a
ir injector you=99ll hear I at the injector=99s banjo fitting.
> Dennis
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>>> On Apr 29, 2021, at 10:08 AM, Justin Drafts <draftsjust417@gmail.com> wr
ote:
>>>
>> =EF=BB
>> Thanks for all the quick replies folks... going to the hangar in a bit fo
r round 2.
>>
>> I did try the rubber mallet approach to try and wallop the valves into ob
edience, no luck but might need to try again.
>>
>> Mm, I've always had success feeling for the tell-tale puff of air out the
open sparkplug hole to indicate the piston was starting it's way up on comp
ression stroke, then finalize the tdc sweet spot (slight prop rotation) unde
r ~40psi.
>> Once there, raise press to 80psi...
>> Has always worked well w/ consistent #'s, until yesterday.
>>
>> With the 0/80 psi reading, esp on a cylinder I'd just checked at 74/80 ps
i, I lean to Dennis' idea of a stuck-open air input line. ?
>> But, not sure... I confess I'm a novice on in depth engine issues.
>> Justin
>>
>>> On Thu, Apr 29, 2021, 6:54 AM Greg Wrobel <clouddog22@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Ok, I may need some help here. It's early, I haven't had my coffee yet a
nd I am but the sharpest knife in the drawer. I saw where you started at the
#1 cylinder and went counter clockwise. Then you said you got on the last c
ylinder (#2) and you started showing problems. The firing order is 1,3,5,7,9
,2,4,6,8. In my simple world the last compression check should have been #8.
Any chance you are just out of sequence?
>>>
>>> Greg "Clouddog" Wrobel
>>>
>>>> On Thu, Apr 29, 2021, 00:03 Justin Drafts <draftsjust417@gmail.com> wro
te:
>>>> Good evening all-
>>>>
>>>> A conundrum for you Housai engine experts; I need some advice to go fwd
.
>>>> Doing the compression check today, I hit a weird wall.
>>>>
>>>> With a partner I was checking cylinders starting with #1 at top, going C
W when viewed from cockpit.
>>>> All #'s were good (avg 75/80 psi), until I got the last cylinder, #2. W
e got 0 psi on the pressure gauge.
>>>>
>>>> Checking the pressure tester/gauges/fittings/hose, all are fine and per
fectly functional.
>>>>
>>>> So we double checked the previous cylinder, which had just 10 min prior
tested at 74/80 psi.... now it also
>>>> showed 0/80 psi. ??
>>>> No obvious air leaks from oil breather, carburetor, or exhaust stack; n
o oil evident at bases of the cylinders;
>>>> the exhaust and intake stacks are good condition. I had flown the plan
e earlier in the day w/o any negative
>>>> indications.
>>>>
>>>> Pulled the valve covers off to find the rocker arms, springs, etc in gr
eat condition, doing their job when we
>>>> slowly turned the prop thru by hand.
>>>>
>>>> Stuck valves?
>>>>
>>>> We tried the "rope trick" to slip a nylon cord into the cylinder thru t
he open sparkplug hole, then gently run
>>>> the piston up to TDC to try to reseat the possibly stuck-open valves. A
s yet, no help.
>>>>
>>>> Fishing for advice & thoughts... what are we missing?
>>>> I've never seen a 0/80 psi reading... a bad piston ring or bad valve, s
hould have SOME psi indication 30~60psi.
>>>>
>>>> Thoughts? Pointers?
>>>> Thanks---
>>>>
>>>> Justin Drafts
>>>> N280NC
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Housai engine question: compression check |
Excellent, thanks - will def try this. -Justin
On Thu, Apr 29, 2021 at 8:32 AM Anthony Savarese <
dsavarese0812@bellsouth.net> wrote:
> Try this. Bring the dead cylinder up to TDC. Then without using the
> compression tester, connect the compressor line directly to the plug
> adapter you use to do the compression test. If you can adjust the output
> pressure on the compressor, start at zero and slowly increase the pressur
e
> while listening carefully for any air leaks at the dead cylinder. As you
> increase the pressure from the compressor, if there is an air leak from a
n
> exhaust valve, you=99ll hear it clearly out of the exhaust stack. I
f it=99s an
> intake valve, listen at the throat of the carburetor. If it=99s an
air
> injector you=99ll hear I at the injector=99s banjo fitting.
> Dennis
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Apr 29, 2021, at 10:08 AM, Justin Drafts <draftsjust417@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> =EF=BB
> Thanks for all the quick replies folks... going to the hangar in a bit fo
r
> round 2.
>
> I did try the rubber mallet approach to try and wallop the valves into
> obedience, no luck but might need to try again.
>
> Mm, I've always had success feeling for the tell-tale puff of air out the
> open sparkplug hole to indicate the piston was starting it's way up on
> compression stroke, then finalize the tdc sweet spot (slight prop rotatio
n)
> under ~40psi.
> Once there, raise press to 80psi...
> Has always worked well w/ consistent #'s, until yesterday.
>
> With the 0/80 psi reading, esp on a cylinder I'd just checked at 74/80
> psi, I *lean* to Dennis' idea of a stuck-open air input line. ?
> But, not sure... I confess I'm a novice on in depth engine issues.
> Justin
>
> On Thu, Apr 29, 2021, 6:54 AM Greg Wrobel <clouddog22@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Ok, I may need some help here. It's early, I haven't had my coffee yet
>> and I am but the sharpest knife in the drawer. I saw where you started a
t
>> the #1 cylinder and went counter clockwise. Then you said you got on the
>> last cylinder (#2) and you started showing problems. The firing order is
>> 1,3,5,7,9,2,4,6,8. In my simple world the last compression check should
>> have been #8. Any chance you are just out of sequence?
>>
>> Greg "Clouddog" Wrobel
>>
>> On Thu, Apr 29, 2021, 00:03 Justin Drafts <draftsjust417@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Good evening all-
>>>
>>> A conundrum for you Housai engine experts; I need some advice to go fwd
.
>>> Doing the compression check today, I hit a weird wall.
>>>
>>> With a partner I was checking cylinders starting with #1 at top, going
>>> CW when viewed from cockpit.
>>> All #'s were good (avg 75/80 psi), until I got the last cylinder, #2.
>>> We got 0 psi on the pressure gauge.
>>>
>>> Checking the pressure tester/gauges/fittings/hose, all are fine and
>>> perfectly functional.
>>>
>>> So we double checked the previous cylinder, which had just 10 min prior
>>> tested at 74/80 psi.... now it also
>>> showed 0/80 psi. ??
>>> No obvious air leaks from oil breather, carburetor, or exhaust stack; n
o
>>> oil evident at bases of the cylinders;
>>> the exhaust and intake stacks are good condition. I had flown the plan
e
>>> earlier in the day w/o any negative
>>> indications.
>>>
>>> Pulled the valve covers off to find the rocker arms, springs, etc in
>>> great condition, doing their job when we
>>> slowly turned the prop thru by hand.
>>>
>>> Stuck valves?
>>>
>>> We tried the "rope trick" to slip a nylon cord into the cylinder thru
>>> the open sparkplug hole, then gently run
>>> the piston up to TDC to try to reseat the possibly stuck-open valves.
>>> As yet, no help.
>>>
>>> Fishing for advice & thoughts... what are we missing?
>>> I've never seen a 0/80 psi reading... a bad piston ring or bad valve,
>>> should have SOME psi indication 30~60psi.
>>>
>>> Thoughts? Pointers?
>>> Thanks---
>>>
>>> Justin Drafts
>>> N280NC
>>>
>>
Message 17
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|
| Subject: | Re: Housai engine question: compression check |
More great inputs thanks...
Sorry but pls remind me on best practice to check valve lash?
(Haven't done it since A&P school in 2002.)
On Thu, Apr 29, 2021 at 8:37 AM Anthony Savarese <
dsavarese0812@bellsouth.net> wrote:
> Try hitting the rocker arms with the rubber mallet when you have air
> pressure on the cylinder. It should have a pretty loud =9Cpop
=9D when you
> strike the rocker arm.
>
> Don=99t forget to check the valve lash. This is very important. Esp
ecially
> if a valve is tight.
> Dennis
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Apr 29, 2021, at 11:28 AM, Anthony Savarese <
> dsavarese0812@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>
> =EF=BBTry this. Bring the dead cylinder up to TDC. Then without using
the
> compression tester, connect the compressor line directly to the plug
> adapter you use to do the compression test. If you can adjust the output
> pressure on the compressor, start at zero and slowly increase the pressur
e
> while listening carefully for any air leaks at the dead cylinder. As you
> increase the pressure from the compressor, if there is an air leak from a
n
> exhaust valve, you=99ll hear it clearly out of the exhaust stack. I
f it=99s an
> intake valve, listen at the throat of the carburetor. If it=99s an
air
> injector you=99ll hear I at the injector=99s banjo fitting.
> Dennis
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Apr 29, 2021, at 10:08 AM, Justin Drafts <draftsjust417@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> =EF=BB
> Thanks for all the quick replies folks... going to the hangar in a bit fo
r
> round 2.
>
> I did try the rubber mallet approach to try and wallop the valves into
> obedience, no luck but might need to try again.
>
> Mm, I've always had success feeling for the tell-tale puff of air out the
> open sparkplug hole to indicate the piston was starting it's way up on
> compression stroke, then finalize the tdc sweet spot (slight prop rotatio
n)
> under ~40psi.
> Once there, raise press to 80psi...
> Has always worked well w/ consistent #'s, until yesterday.
>
> With the 0/80 psi reading, esp on a cylinder I'd just checked at 74/80
> psi, I *lean* to Dennis' idea of a stuck-open air input line. ?
> But, not sure... I confess I'm a novice on in depth engine issues.
> Justin
>
> On Thu, Apr 29, 2021, 6:54 AM Greg Wrobel <clouddog22@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Ok, I may need some help here. It's early, I haven't had my coffee yet
>> and I am but the sharpest knife in the drawer. I saw where you started a
t
>> the #1 cylinder and went counter clockwise. Then you said you got on the
>> last cylinder (#2) and you started showing problems. The firing order is
>> 1,3,5,7,9,2,4,6,8. In my simple world the last compression check should
>> have been #8. Any chance you are just out of sequence?
>>
>> Greg "Clouddog" Wrobel
>>
>> On Thu, Apr 29, 2021, 00:03 Justin Drafts <draftsjust417@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Good evening all-
>>>
>>> A conundrum for you Housai engine experts; I need some advice to go fwd
.
>>> Doing the compression check today, I hit a weird wall.
>>>
>>> With a partner I was checking cylinders starting with #1 at top, going
>>> CW when viewed from cockpit.
>>> All #'s were good (avg 75/80 psi), until I got the last cylinder, #2.
>>> We got 0 psi on the pressure gauge.
>>>
>>> Checking the pressure tester/gauges/fittings/hose, all are fine and
>>> perfectly functional.
>>>
>>> So we double checked the previous cylinder, which had just 10 min prior
>>> tested at 74/80 psi.... now it also
>>> showed 0/80 psi. ??
>>> No obvious air leaks from oil breather, carburetor, or exhaust stack; n
o
>>> oil evident at bases of the cylinders;
>>> the exhaust and intake stacks are good condition. I had flown the plan
e
>>> earlier in the day w/o any negative
>>> indications.
>>>
>>> Pulled the valve covers off to find the rocker arms, springs, etc in
>>> great condition, doing their job when we
>>> slowly turned the prop thru by hand.
>>>
>>> Stuck valves?
>>>
>>> We tried the "rope trick" to slip a nylon cord into the cylinder thru
>>> the open sparkplug hole, then gently run
>>> the piston up to TDC to try to reseat the possibly stuck-open valves.
>>> As yet, no help.
>>>
>>> Fishing for advice & thoughts... what are we missing?
>>> I've never seen a 0/80 psi reading... a bad piston ring or bad valve,
>>> should have SOME psi indication 30~60psi.
>>>
>>> Thoughts? Pointers?
>>> Thanks---
>>>
>>> Justin Drafts
>>> N280NC
>>>
>>
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| Subject: | Re: Housai engine question: compression check |
Thanks Greg;
Was about to ask the same question!
Walt
From: Greg Wrobel
Sent: Thursday, April 29, 2021 6:49 AM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: Housai engine question: compression check
Ok, I may need some help here. It's early, I haven't had my coffee yet
and I am but the sharpest knife in the drawer. I saw where you started
at the #1 cylinder and went counter clockwise. Then you said you got on
the last cylinder (#2) and you started showing problems. The firing
order is 1,3,5,7,9,2,4,6,8. In my simple world the last compression
check should have been #8. Any chance you are just out of sequence?
Greg "Clouddog" Wrobel
On Thu, Apr 29, 2021, 00:03 Justin Drafts <draftsjust417@gmail.com>
wrote:
Good evening all-
A conundrum for you Housai engine experts; I need some advice to go
fwd.
Doing the compression check today, I hit a weird wall.
With a partner I was checking cylinders starting with #1 at top, going
CW when viewed from cockpit.
All #'s were good (avg 75/80 psi), until I got the last cylinder, #2.
We got 0 psi on the pressure gauge.
Checking the pressure tester/gauges/fittings/hose, all are fine and
perfectly functional.
So we double checked the previous cylinder, which had just 10 min
prior tested at 74/80 psi.... now it also
showed 0/80 psi. ??
No obvious air leaks from oil breather, carburetor, or exhaust stack;
no oil evident at bases of the cylinders;
the exhaust and intake stacks are good condition. I had flown the
plane earlier in the day w/o any negative
indications.
Pulled the valve covers off to find the rocker arms, springs, etc in
great condition, doing their job when we
slowly turned the prop thru by hand.
Stuck valves?
We tried the "rope trick" to slip a nylon cord into the cylinder thru
the open sparkplug hole, then gently run
the piston up to TDC to try to reseat the possibly stuck-open valves.
As yet, no help.
Fishing for advice & thoughts... what are we missing?
I've never seen a 0/80 psi reading... a bad piston ring or bad valve,
should have SOME psi indication 30~60psi.
Thoughts? Pointers?
Thanks---
Justin Drafts
N280NC
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| Subject: | Re: Rumor has it.. |
Richard, sending you an email, very interesting someone is going to overhaul them.
David
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| Subject: | Re: Housai engine question: compression check |
Hi Justin;
I can=99t ever remember doing a leakdown test in anything but the
firing order. One cylinder follows the last after 40 Deg. of rotation
=93 piece of cake. However I note you started from the top and
rotated CW as viewed from the cockpit. But it seems to my addled old
brain that all British and the rest of the worlds engines (other than
the US) turn the other way.
Best;
Walt
From: Justin Drafts
Sent: Thursday, April 29, 2021 8:24 AM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Housai engine question: compression check
YES I'm perpetually grateful for all the expert advice in the group!
One day I might advance past Nanchang novice status...
Oh I wish it was my test equipment that had pooped the bed, but it read
great for 8 out of 9 cylinders, even going back to randomly check #7
again after #2 and #3 showed that suspicious 0/80 psi reading (even tho
10 min prior, #3 showed a very good 74/80 psi). In a failure of that
magnitude, of course the 1st and wisest resort is to question the test
equipment, but this time I'm confident, sigh, it's working well.
Will go tap the valves again, and look into the air inlet valves.
Thankfully at first insp, rocker arms, springs, etc still looked factory
new.
Good info on the check sequence, thanks all for insights.
Pls keep them coming, and will pass on any new info or solutions I find
today...
Justin
On Thu, Apr 29, 2021, 7:57 AM Mark Pennington
<pennington.construction.inc.1@gmail.com> wrote:
Justin
I can't agree more that Dennis is on top of his radial engine info for
sure, he has made my life easier on more than one occasion. The one
thing that I haven't seen in the thread is you have confirmed your test
equipment didn't die. The reason I ask is you dont hear air anywhere
resulting in the very low reading.. Do you get a good compression check
on any cylinders at this point.????? Also, based on my education from
Dennis, following the firing order for a compression check is
preferable.
With the experience you have from the past etc. I would check my
compression checker.... Hope you find the issue. Please share with
the group once you know.
Mark Pennington
N621CJ
On Thu, Apr 29, 2021 at 10:11 AM Justin Drafts
<draftsjust417@gmail.com> wrote:
Thanks for all the quick replies folks... going to the hangar in a
bit for round 2.
I did try the rubber mallet approach to try and wallop the valves
into obedience, no luck but might need to try again.
Mm, I've always had success feeling for the tell-tale puff of air
out the open sparkplug hole to indicate the piston was starting it's way
up on compression stroke, then finalize the tdc sweet spot (slight prop
rotation) under ~40psi.
Once there, raise press to 80psi...
Has always worked well w/ consistent #'s, until yesterday.
With the 0/80 psi reading, esp on a cylinder I'd just checked at
74/80 psi, I lean to Dennis' idea of a stuck-open air input line. ?
But, not sure... I confess I'm a novice on in depth engine issues.
Justin
On Thu, Apr 29, 2021, 6:54 AM Greg Wrobel <clouddog22@gmail.com>
wrote:
Ok, I may need some help here. It's early, I haven't had my coffee
yet and I am but the sharpest knife in the drawer. I saw where you
started at the #1 cylinder and went counter clockwise. Then you said you
got on the last cylinder (#2) and you started showing problems. The
firing order is 1,3,5,7,9,2,4,6,8. In my simple world the last
compression check should have been #8. Any chance you are just out of
sequence?
Greg "Clouddog" Wrobel
On Thu, Apr 29, 2021, 00:03 Justin Drafts
<draftsjust417@gmail.com> wrote:
Good evening all-
A conundrum for you Housai engine experts; I need some advice to
go fwd.
Doing the compression check today, I hit a weird wall.
With a partner I was checking cylinders starting with #1 at top,
going CW when viewed from cockpit.
All #'s were good (avg 75/80 psi), until I got the last
cylinder, #2. We got 0 psi on the pressure gauge.
Checking the pressure tester/gauges/fittings/hose, all are fine
and perfectly functional.
So we double checked the previous cylinder, which had just 10
min prior tested at 74/80 psi.... now it also
showed 0/80 psi. ??
No obvious air leaks from oil breather, carburetor, or exhaust
stack; no oil evident at bases of the cylinders;
the exhaust and intake stacks are good condition. I had flown
the plane earlier in the day w/o any negative
indications.
Pulled the valve covers off to find the rocker arms, springs,
etc in great condition, doing their job when we
slowly turned the prop thru by hand.
Stuck valves?
We tried the "rope trick" to slip a nylon cord into the cylinder
thru the open sparkplug hole, then gently run
the piston up to TDC to try to reseat the possibly stuck-open
valves. As yet, no help.
Fishing for advice & thoughts... what are we missing?
I've never seen a 0/80 psi reading... a bad piston ring or bad
valve, should have SOME psi indication 30~60psi.
Thoughts? Pointers?
Thanks---
Justin Drafts
N280NC
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| Subject: | Re: Housai engine question: compression check |
Ya, I end up rotating (correct direction!) the prop thru a bit more to find
each successive cylinder's TDC this way... admittedly it does take longer,
but I'm on vacation, :)
Will take a crack at the small air intake valves asap... thankfully I have
a battered old spare parts engine to practice on.
Justin
On Thu, Apr 29, 2021, 10:51 AM Walter Lannon <wlannon@shaw.ca> wrote:
> Hi Justin;
>
> I can=99t ever remember doing a leakdown test in anything but the f
iring
> order. One cylinder follows the last after 40 Deg. of rotation =93
piece of
> cake. However I note you started from the top and rotated CW as viewed
> from the cockpit. But it seems to my addled old brain that all British a
nd
> the rest of the worlds engines (other than the US) turn the other way.
>
> Best;
> Walt
>
> *From:* Justin Drafts <draftsjust417@gmail.com>
> *Sent:* Thursday, April 29, 2021 8:24 AM
> *To:* yak-list@matronics.com
> *Subject:* Re: Yak-List: Housai engine question: compression check
>
> YES I'm perpetually grateful for all the expert advice in the group!
> One day I might advance past Nanchang novice status...
>
> Oh I wish it was my test equipment that had pooped the bed, but it read
> great for 8 out of 9 cylinders, even going back to randomly check #7 agai
n
> after #2 and #3 showed that suspicious 0/80 psi reading (even tho 10 min
> prior, #3 showed a very good 74/80 psi). In a failure of that magnitude,
of
> course the 1st and wisest resort is to question the test equipment, but
> this time I'm confident, sigh, it's working well.
>
> Will go tap the valves again, and look into the air inlet valves.
> Thankfully at first insp, rocker arms, springs, etc still looked factory
> new.
>
> Good info on the check sequence, thanks all for insights.
> Pls keep them coming, and will pass on any new info or solutions I find
> today...
>
> Justin
>
> On Thu, Apr 29, 2021, 7:57 AM Mark Pennington <
> pennington.construction.inc.1@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Justin
>>
>> I can't agree more that Dennis is on top of his radial engine info for
>> sure, he has made my life easier on more than one occasion. The one th
ing
>> that I haven't seen in the thread is you have confirmed your test equipm
ent
>> didn't die. The reason I ask is you dont hear air anywhere resulting in
>> the very low reading.. Do you get a good compression check on any cylind
ers
>> at this point.????? Also, based on my education from Dennis, following
the
>> firing order for a compression check is preferable.
>>
>> With the experience you have from the past etc. I would check my
>> compression checker.... Hope you find the issue. Please share with
the
>> group once you know.
>>
>> Mark Pennington
>> N621CJ
>>
>> On Thu, Apr 29, 2021 at 10:11 AM Justin Drafts <draftsjust417@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Thanks for all the quick replies folks... going to the hangar in a bit
>>> for round 2.
>>>
>>> I did try the rubber mallet approach to try and wallop the valves into
>>> obedience, no luck but might need to try again.
>>>
>>> Mm, I've always had success feeling for the tell-tale puff of air out
>>> the open sparkplug hole to indicate the piston was starting it's way up
on
>>> compression stroke, then finalize the tdc sweet spot (slight prop rotat
ion)
>>> under ~40psi.
>>> Once there, raise press to 80psi...
>>> Has always worked well w/ consistent #'s, until yesterday.
>>>
>>> With the 0/80 psi reading, esp on a cylinder I'd just checked at 74/80
>>> psi, I *lean* to Dennis' idea of a stuck-open air input line. ?
>>> But, not sure... I confess I'm a novice on in depth engine issues.
>>> Justin
>>>
>>> On Thu, Apr 29, 2021, 6:54 AM Greg Wrobel <clouddog22@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Ok, I may need some help here. It's early, I haven't had my coffee yet
>>>> and I am but the sharpest knife in the drawer. I saw where you started
at
>>>> the #1 cylinder and went counter clockwise. Then you said you got on t
he
>>>> last cylinder (#2) and you started showing problems. The firing order
is
>>>> 1,3,5,7,9,2,4,6,8. In my simple world the last compression check shoul
d
>>>> have been #8. Any chance you are just out of sequence?
>>>>
>>>> Greg "Clouddog" Wrobel
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, Apr 29, 2021, 00:03 Justin Drafts <draftsjust417@gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Good evening all-
>>>>>
>>>>> A conundrum for you Housai engine experts; I need some advice to go
>>>>> fwd.
>>>>> Doing the compression check today, I hit a weird wall.
>>>>>
>>>>> With a partner I was checking cylinders starting with #1 at top, goin
g
>>>>> CW when viewed from cockpit.
>>>>> All #'s were good (avg 75/80 psi), until I got the last cylinder, #2.
>>>>> We got 0 psi on the pressure gauge.
>>>>>
>>>>> Checking the pressure tester/gauges/fittings/hose, all are fine and
>>>>> perfectly functional.
>>>>>
>>>>> So we double checked the previous cylinder, which had just 10 min
>>>>> prior tested at 74/80 psi.... now it also
>>>>> showed 0/80 psi. ??
>>>>> No obvious air leaks from oil breather, carburetor, or exhaust stack;
>>>>> no oil evident at bases of the cylinders;
>>>>> the exhaust and intake stacks are good condition. I had flown the
>>>>> plane earlier in the day w/o any negative
>>>>> indications.
>>>>>
>>>>> Pulled the valve covers off to find the rocker arms, springs, etc in
>>>>> great condition, doing their job when we
>>>>> slowly turned the prop thru by hand.
>>>>>
>>>>> Stuck valves?
>>>>>
>>>>> We tried the "rope trick" to slip a nylon cord into the cylinder thru
>>>>> the open sparkplug hole, then gently run
>>>>> the piston up to TDC to try to reseat the possibly stuck-open valves.
>>>>> As yet, no help.
>>>>>
>>>>> Fishing for advice & thoughts... what are we missing?
>>>>> I've never seen a 0/80 psi reading... a bad piston ring or bad valve,
>>>>> should have SOME psi indication 30~60psi.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thoughts? Pointers?
>>>>> Thanks---
>>>>>
>>>>> Justin Drafts
>>>>> N280NC
>>>>>
>>>>
Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: Housai engine question: compression check |
To all; Should read 80 Degs. between test cylinders.
Walt.
From: Walter Lannon
Sent: Thursday, April 29, 2021 10:46 AM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Housai engine question: compression check
Hi Justin;
I can=99t ever remember doing a leakdown test in anything but the
firing order. One cylinder follows the last after 40 Deg. of rotation
=93 piece of cake. However I note you started from the top and
rotated CW as viewed from the cockpit. But it seems to my addled old
brain that all British and the rest of the worlds engines (other than
the US) turn the other way.
Best;
Walt
From: Justin Drafts
Sent: Thursday, April 29, 2021 8:24 AM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Housai engine question: compression check
YES I'm perpetually grateful for all the expert advice in the group!
One day I might advance past Nanchang novice status...
Oh I wish it was my test equipment that had pooped the bed, but it read
great for 8 out of 9 cylinders, even going back to randomly check #7
again after #2 and #3 showed that suspicious 0/80 psi reading (even tho
10 min prior, #3 showed a very good 74/80 psi). In a failure of that
magnitude, of course the 1st and wisest resort is to question the test
equipment, but this time I'm confident, sigh, it's working well.
Will go tap the valves again, and look into the air inlet valves.
Thankfully at first insp, rocker arms, springs, etc still looked factory
new.
Good info on the check sequence, thanks all for insights.
Pls keep them coming, and will pass on any new info or solutions I find
today...
Justin
On Thu, Apr 29, 2021, 7:57 AM Mark Pennington
<pennington.construction.inc.1@gmail.com> wrote:
Justin
I can't agree more that Dennis is on top of his radial engine info for
sure, he has made my life easier on more than one occasion. The one
thing that I haven't seen in the thread is you have confirmed your test
equipment didn't die. The reason I ask is you dont hear air anywhere
resulting in the very low reading.. Do you get a good compression check
on any cylinders at this point.????? Also, based on my education from
Dennis, following the firing order for a compression check is
preferable.
With the experience you have from the past etc. I would check my
compression checker.... Hope you find the issue. Please share with
the group once you know.
Mark Pennington
N621CJ
On Thu, Apr 29, 2021 at 10:11 AM Justin Drafts
<draftsjust417@gmail.com> wrote:
Thanks for all the quick replies folks... going to the hangar in a
bit for round 2.
I did try the rubber mallet approach to try and wallop the valves
into obedience, no luck but might need to try again.
Mm, I've always had success feeling for the tell-tale puff of air
out the open sparkplug hole to indicate the piston was starting it's way
up on compression stroke, then finalize the tdc sweet spot (slight prop
rotation) under ~40psi.
Once there, raise press to 80psi...
Has always worked well w/ consistent #'s, until yesterday.
With the 0/80 psi reading, esp on a cylinder I'd just checked at
74/80 psi, I lean to Dennis' idea of a stuck-open air input line. ?
But, not sure... I confess I'm a novice on in depth engine issues.
Justin
On Thu, Apr 29, 2021, 6:54 AM Greg Wrobel <clouddog22@gmail.com>
wrote:
Ok, I may need some help here. It's early, I haven't had my coffee
yet and I am but the sharpest knife in the drawer. I saw where you
started at the #1 cylinder and went counter clockwise. Then you said you
got on the last cylinder (#2) and you started showing problems. The
firing order is 1,3,5,7,9,2,4,6,8. In my simple world the last
compression check should have been #8. Any chance you are just out of
sequence?
Greg "Clouddog" Wrobel
On Thu, Apr 29, 2021, 00:03 Justin Drafts
<draftsjust417@gmail.com> wrote:
Good evening all-
A conundrum for you Housai engine experts; I need some advice to
go fwd.
Doing the compression check today, I hit a weird wall.
With a partner I was checking cylinders starting with #1 at top,
going CW when viewed from cockpit.
All #'s were good (avg 75/80 psi), until I got the last
cylinder, #2. We got 0 psi on the pressure gauge.
Checking the pressure tester/gauges/fittings/hose, all are fine
and perfectly functional.
So we double checked the previous cylinder, which had just 10
min prior tested at 74/80 psi.... now it also
showed 0/80 psi. ??
No obvious air leaks from oil breather, carburetor, or exhaust
stack; no oil evident at bases of the cylinders;
the exhaust and intake stacks are good condition. I had flown
the plane earlier in the day w/o any negative
indications.
Pulled the valve covers off to find the rocker arms, springs,
etc in great condition, doing their job when we
slowly turned the prop thru by hand.
Stuck valves?
We tried the "rope trick" to slip a nylon cord into the cylinder
thru the open sparkplug hole, then gently run
the piston up to TDC to try to reseat the possibly stuck-open
valves. As yet, no help.
Fishing for advice & thoughts... what are we missing?
I've never seen a 0/80 psi reading... a bad piston ring or bad
valve, should have SOME psi indication 30~60psi.
Thoughts? Pointers?
Thanks---
Justin Drafts
N280NC
Message 25
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|
| Subject: | Re: Housai engine question: compression check |
Hi Justin
That has to be TDC =93 compression stroke. If TDC =93
exhaust, the gouge will read zero.
Walt
From: Justin Drafts
Sent: Thursday, April 29, 2021 11:00 AM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Housai engine question: compression check
Ya, I end up rotating (correct direction!) the prop thru a bit more to
find each successive cylinder's TDC this way... admittedly it does take
longer, but I'm on vacation, :)
Will take a crack at the small air intake valves asap... thankfully I
have a battered old spare parts engine to practice on.
Justin
On Thu, Apr 29, 2021, 10:51 AM Walter Lannon <wlannon@shaw.ca> wrote:
Hi Justin;
I can=99t ever remember doing a leakdown test in anything but
the firing order. One cylinder follows the last after 40 Deg. of
rotation =93 piece of cake. However I note you started from the
top and rotated CW as viewed from the cockpit. But it seems to my
addled old brain that all British and the rest of the worlds engines
(other than the US) turn the other way.
Best;
Walt
From: Justin Drafts
Sent: Thursday, April 29, 2021 8:24 AM
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Housai engine question: compression check
YES I'm perpetually grateful for all the expert advice in the group!
One day I might advance past Nanchang novice status...
Oh I wish it was my test equipment that had pooped the bed, but it
read great for 8 out of 9 cylinders, even going back to randomly check
#7 again after #2 and #3 showed that suspicious 0/80 psi reading (even
tho 10 min prior, #3 showed a very good 74/80 psi). In a failure of that
magnitude, of course the 1st and wisest resort is to question the test
equipment, but this time I'm confident, sigh, it's working well.
Will go tap the valves again, and look into the air inlet valves.
Thankfully at first insp, rocker arms, springs, etc still looked
factory new.
Good info on the check sequence, thanks all for insights.
Pls keep them coming, and will pass on any new info or solutions I
find today...
Justin
On Thu, Apr 29, 2021, 7:57 AM Mark Pennington
<pennington.construction.inc.1@gmail.com> wrote:
Justin
I can't agree more that Dennis is on top of his radial engine info
for sure, he has made my life easier on more than one occasion. The
one thing that I haven't seen in the thread is you have confirmed your
test equipment didn't die. The reason I ask is you dont hear air
anywhere resulting in the very low reading.. Do you get a good
compression check on any cylinders at this point.????? Also, based on
my education from Dennis, following the firing order for a compression
check is preferable.
With the experience you have from the past etc. I would check my
compression checker.... Hope you find the issue. Please share with
the group once you know.
Mark Pennington
N621CJ
On Thu, Apr 29, 2021 at 10:11 AM Justin Drafts
<draftsjust417@gmail.com> wrote:
Thanks for all the quick replies folks... going to the hangar in a
bit for round 2.
I did try the rubber mallet approach to try and wallop the valves
into obedience, no luck but might need to try again.
Mm, I've always had success feeling for the tell-tale puff of air
out the open sparkplug hole to indicate the piston was starting it's way
up on compression stroke, then finalize the tdc sweet spot (slight prop
rotation) under ~40psi.
Once there, raise press to 80psi...
Has always worked well w/ consistent #'s, until yesterday.
With the 0/80 psi reading, esp on a cylinder I'd just checked at
74/80 psi, I lean to Dennis' idea of a stuck-open air input line. ?
But, not sure... I confess I'm a novice on in depth engine issues.
Justin
On Thu, Apr 29, 2021, 6:54 AM Greg Wrobel <clouddog22@gmail.com>
wrote:
Ok, I may need some help here. It's early, I haven't had my
coffee yet and I am but the sharpest knife in the drawer. I saw where
you started at the #1 cylinder and went counter clockwise. Then you said
you got on the last cylinder (#2) and you started showing problems. The
firing order is 1,3,5,7,9,2,4,6,8. In my simple world the last
compression check should have been #8. Any chance you are just out of
sequence?
Greg "Clouddog" Wrobel
On Thu, Apr 29, 2021, 00:03 Justin Drafts
<draftsjust417@gmail.com> wrote:
Good evening all-
A conundrum for you Housai engine experts; I need some advice
to go fwd.
Doing the compression check today, I hit a weird wall.
With a partner I was checking cylinders starting with #1 at
top, going CW when viewed from cockpit.
All #'s were good (avg 75/80 psi), until I got the last
cylinder, #2. We got 0 psi on the pressure gauge.
Checking the pressure tester/gauges/fittings/hose, all are
fine and perfectly functional.
So we double checked the previous cylinder, which had just 10
min prior tested at 74/80 psi.... now it also
showed 0/80 psi. ??
No obvious air leaks from oil breather, carburetor, or exhaust
stack; no oil evident at bases of the cylinders;
the exhaust and intake stacks are good condition. I had flown
the plane earlier in the day w/o any negative
indications.
Pulled the valve covers off to find the rocker arms, springs,
etc in great condition, doing their job when we
slowly turned the prop thru by hand.
Stuck valves?
We tried the "rope trick" to slip a nylon cord into the
cylinder thru the open sparkplug hole, then gently run
the piston up to TDC to try to reseat the possibly stuck-open
valves. As yet, no help.
Fishing for advice & thoughts... what are we missing?
I've never seen a 0/80 psi reading... a bad piston ring or bad
valve, should have SOME psi indication 30~60psi.
Thoughts? Pointers?
Thanks---
Justin Drafts
N280NC
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| Subject: | Re: Housai engine question: compression check |
At 0/80, you should hear the air coming out somewhere if the gauge is set
and working properly. If not hearing air, may be a gauge issue.
On Thursday, April 29, 2021, 07:00:39 AM PDT, Greg Wrobel <clouddog22@g
mail.com> wrote:
Ok, I may need some help here. It's early, I haven't had my coffee yet and
I am but the sharpest knife in the drawer. I saw where you started at the
#1 cylinder and went counter clockwise. Then you said you got on the last c
ylinder (#2) and you started showing problems. The firing order is 1,3,5,7,
9,2,4,6,8. In my simple world the last compression check should have been #
8. Any chance you are just out of sequence?
Greg "Clouddog" Wrobel
On Thu, Apr 29, 2021, 00:03 Justin Drafts <draftsjust417@gmail.com> wrote:
Good evening all-
A conundrum for you Housai engine experts; I need some advice to go fwd.Doi
ng the compression check today, I hit a weird wall.
With a partner I was checking cylinders starting=C2-with #1 at top, going
CW when viewed from cockpit.=C2-All #'s were good (avg 75/80 psi), until
I got the last cylinder, #2.=C2- We got 0 psi on the pressure gauge.=C2
-=C2-
Checking the pressure tester/gauges/fittings/hose, all are fine and perfect
ly functional.=C2-
So we double checked the previous cylinder, which had just 10 min prior tes
ted at 74/80 psi.... now it also=C2-showed 0/80 psi. ??No obvious air lea
ks from oil breather, carburetor, or exhaust stack; no oil evident at bases
of the cylinders;=C2-the exhaust and intake stacks are good condition.
=C2-I had flown the plane earlier in the day w/o any negative=C2-indica
tions.
Pulled the valve covers off to find the rocker arms, springs, etc in great
condition,=C2-doing their=C2-job when we=C2-slowly turned the prop th
ru by hand.
Stuck valves?=C2-
We tried the "rope trick" to slip a nylon cord into the cylinder thru the o
pen sparkplug hole, then gently run=C2-the piston up to TDC to try to res
eat the possibly stuck-open valves.=C2- As yet, no help.=C2-
Fishing for advice & thoughts... what are we missing?=C2-I've never seen
a 0/80 psi reading... a bad piston ring or bad valve, should have SOME psi
indication 30~60psi.
Thoughts?=C2- Pointers?Thanks---
Justin DraftsN280NC
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| Subject: | Re: Housai engine question: compression check |
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Message 28
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| Subject: | Re: Housai engine question: compression check |
Ok helpful gents and engine experts-
A fruitful sunny day spent @ hangar with the suspect cylinders.
Checked the small starting air valve: definitely in good working order and
closing as appropriate.
Pulling off rocker covers and watching the rocker arm and valve springs, I
see there is
no gap at TDC between the rocker arm and top of the spring /stem for
cylinders #2 and #3.
Just so I'm understanding valve lash / clearance correctly:
- the 0.010-0.014" clearance mentioned is supposed to be here at the red
circle in the
attached pic, correct? (While the stem is at its highest point of
travel/valve fully seated/TDC...)
-adjusting this clearance/lash requires turning the large adjustment screw
at the green arrow, correct?
Based on the air I hear escaping the exhaust stack, I suspect the exhaust
valves are sticking or
otherwise remaining open.
Not sure how I went from great compression #'s last year to 0/80 psi this
year, but very little surprises
me in maintenance anymore.
Thoughts gents?
Thanks- Justin
On Thu, Apr 29, 2021 at 5:09 AM A. Dennis Savarese <
dsavarese0812@bellsouth.net> wrote:
> dsavarese0812@bellsouth.net>
>
> Also check the the air injector to make sure it is fully closed. It
> too
> has a very small valve inside of it about the size of a pencil eraser.
> If the little valve spring is broken or the valve remains open, it will
> of course affect the compression test.
> Dennis
>
> A. Dennis Savarese
> 334-546-8182
> www.yak-52.com
>
> On 4/28/2021 11:58 PM, Justin Drafts wrote:
> > Good evening all-
> >
> > A conundrum for you Housai engine experts; I need some advice to go fwd.
> > Doing the compression check today, I hit a weird wall.
> >
> > With a partner I was checking cylinders starting with #1 at top, going
> > CW when viewed from cockpit.
> > All #'s were good (avg 75/80 psi), until I got the last cylinder, #2.
> > We got 0 psi on the pressure gauge.
> >
> > Checking the pressure tester/gauges/fittings/hose, all are fine and
> > perfectly functional.
> >
> > So we double checked the previous cylinder, which had just 10 min
> > prior tested at 74/80 psi.... now it also
> > showed 0/80 psi. ??
> > No obvious air leaks from oil breather, carburetor, or exhaust stack;
> > no oil evident at bases of the cylinders;
> > the exhaust and intake stacks are good condition. I had flown the
> > plane earlier in the day w/o any negative
> > indications.
> >
> > Pulled the valve covers off to find the rocker arms, springs, etc in
> > great condition, doing their job when we
> > slowly turned the prop thru by hand.
> >
> > Stuck valves?
> >
> > We tried the "rope trick" to slip a nylon cord into the cylinder thru
> > the open sparkplug hole, then gently run
> > the piston up to TDC to try to reseat the possibly stuck-open valves.
> > As yet, no help.
> >
> > Fishing for advice & thoughts... what are we missing?
> > I've never seen a 0/80 psi reading... a bad piston ring or bad valve,
> > should have SOME psi indication 30~60psi.
> >
> > Thoughts? Pointers?
> > Thanks---
> >
> > Justin Drafts
> > N280NC
>
>
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| Subject: | Re: Housai engine question: compression check |
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Message 30
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| Subject: | Re: Housai engine question: compression check |
Good info, thanks... did try the mallet whack repair, alas to no avail, at
least not yet.
Maybe I didn't rap it sharply enough?
Haven't seen any oil residue at cylinder bases, and thankfully the engine
is only drinking ~1/2 quart oil per hour, not bad... thx for input!
Justin
On Thu, Apr 29, 2021, 7:18 PM Jon Boede <jonboede@hotmail.com> wrote:
> One of the reasons your valve clearances change is because the cylinder i
s
> sitting lower, having lost part or all of the paper gasket between the
> cylinder and the case.
>
> Grab the cylinder and firmly try to move it side to side and fore-back.
> Check if you see any motion along the 8 studs at the cylinder base or if
> you see a wet line along the base of the cylinder where it meets the engi
ne
> case that changes in appearance as you move the cylinder.
>
> Had your oil consumption been more than one quart an hour recently?
>
> Otherwise, staking the valve is your best bet. Adjust it and if still
> getting air noises in the exhaust have an experienced mechanic show you t
he
> fine art of staking a valve. Plenty of times they will go from 0 to just
> fine after a good mallet whack.
>
> Jon
>
> On Apr 29, 2021, at 8:34 PM, Justin Drafts <draftsjust417@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> =EF=BB
> Ok helpful gents and engine experts-
> A fruitful sunny day spent @ hangar with the suspect cylinders.
>
> Checked the small starting air valve: definitely in good working order an
d
> closing as appropriate.
>
> Pulling off rocker covers and watching the rocker arm and valve springs,
I
> see there is
> no gap at TDC between the rocker arm and top of the spring /stem for
> cylinders #2 and #3.
>
> Just so I'm understanding valve lash / clearance correctly:
> - the 0.010-0.014" clearance mentioned is supposed to be here at the red
> circle in the
> attached pic, correct? (While the stem is at its highest point of
> travel/valve fully seated/TDC...)
> -adjusting this clearance/lash requires turning the large adjustment scre
w
> at the green arrow, correct?
>
> Based on the air I hear escaping the exhaust stack, I suspect the exhaust
> valves are sticking or
> otherwise remaining open.
>
> Not sure how I went from great compression #'s last year to 0/80 psi this
> year, but very little surprises
> me in maintenance anymore.
>
> Thoughts gents?
> Thanks- Justin
>
> On Thu, Apr 29, 2021 at 5:09 AM A. Dennis Savarese <
> dsavarese0812@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>
>> dsavarese0812@bellsouth.net>
>>
>> Also check the the air injector to make sure it is fully closed. It
>> too
>> has a very small valve inside of it about the size of a pencil eraser.
>> If the little valve spring is broken or the valve remains open, it will
>> of course affect the compression test.
>> Dennis
>>
>> A. Dennis Savarese
>> 334-546-8182
>> www.yak-52.com
>>
>> On 4/28/2021 11:58 PM, Justin Drafts wrote:
>> > Good evening all-
>> >
>> > A conundrum for you Housai engine experts; I need some advice to go fw
d.
>> > Doing the compression check today, I hit a weird wall.
>> >
>> > With a partner I was checking cylinders starting with #1 at top, going
>> > CW when viewed from cockpit.
>> > All #'s were good (avg 75/80 psi), until I got the last cylinder, #2.
>> > We got 0 psi on the pressure gauge.
>> >
>> > Checking the pressure tester/gauges/fittings/hose, all are fine and
>> > perfectly functional.
>> >
>> > So we double checked the previous cylinder, which had just 10 min
>> > prior tested at 74/80 psi.... now it also
>> > showed 0/80 psi. ??
>> > No obvious air leaks from oil breather, carburetor, or exhaust stack;
>> > no oil evident at bases of the cylinders;
>> > the exhaust and intake stacks are good condition. I had flown the
>> > plane earlier in the day w/o any negative
>> > indications.
>> >
>> > Pulled the valve covers off to find the rocker arms, springs, etc in
>> > great condition, doing their job when we
>> > slowly turned the prop thru by hand.
>> >
>> > Stuck valves?
>> >
>> > We tried the "rope trick" to slip a nylon cord into the cylinder thru
>> > the open sparkplug hole, then gently run
>> > the piston up to TDC to try to reseat the possibly stuck-open valves.
>> > As yet, no help.
>> >
>> > Fishing for advice & thoughts... what are we missing?
>> > I've never seen a 0/80 psi reading... a bad piston ring or bad valve,
>> > should have SOME psi indication 30~60psi.
>> >
>> > Thoughts? Pointers?
>> > Thanks---
>> >
>> > Justin Drafts
>> > N280NC
>>
>>
>>
>> ==========
>> List" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">
>> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
>> ==========
>> FORUMS -
>> eferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com
>> ==========
>> WIKI -
>> errer" target="_blank">http://wiki.matronics.com
>> ==========
>> b Site -
>> -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
>> rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contributi
on
>> ==========
>>
>>
>>
>> <cyl #2 rocker arm, exhaust.jpg>
>
>
Message 31
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|
| Subject: | Re: Housai engine question: compression check |
MMO?=C2-In a message dated 4/29/2021 7:50:21 PM Pacific Standard Time, dr
aftsjust417@gmail.com writes:=C2-
Good info, thanks... did try the mallet whack repair, alas to no avail, at
least not yet.Maybe I didn't rap it sharply enough?=C2-Haven't seen any o
il residue at cylinder bases, and thankfully the engine is only drinking ~1
/2 quart oil per hour,=C2- not bad... thx for input!=C2- Justin=C2-
On Thu, Apr 29, 2021, 7:18 PM Jon Boede <jonboede@hotmail.com> wrote:
One of the reasons your valve clearances change is because the cylinder is
sitting lower, having lost part or all of the paper gasket between the cyli
nder and the case.=C2-=C2-Grab the cylinder and firmly try to move it s
ide to side and fore-back. Check if you see any motion along the 8 studs at
the cylinder base or if you see a wet line along the base of the cylinder
where it meets the engine case that changes in appearance as you move the c
ylinder.=C2-=C2-Had your oil consumption been more than one quart an ho
ur recently?=C2-Otherwise, staking the valve is your best bet. Adjust it
and if still getting air noises in the exhaust have an experienced mechanic
show you the fine art of staking a valve. Plenty of times they will go fro
m 0 to just fine after a good mallet whack.=C2-=C2-Jon
On Apr 29, 2021, at 8:34 PM, Justin Drafts <draftsjust417@gmail.com> wrote:
Ok helpful gents and engine experts-A fruitful sunny day spent=C2-@ hanga
r with the suspect cylinders.=C2-Checked the small starting air valve: de
finitely in good working order and closing as appropriate.=C2-Pulling off
rocker covers and watching the rocker arm and valve springs, I see there i
s=C2-no gap at TDC between the rocker arm and top of the spring=C2-/ste
m for cylinders #2 and #3.=C2-Just so I'm understanding valve=C2-lash /
clearance correctly:-=C2- the 0.010-0.014" clearance mentioned=C2-is s
upposed to be here at the red circle in theattached pic, correct?=C2- (Wh
ile the stem is at its highest point of travel/valve fully seated/TDC...)-a
djusting this clearance/lash requires turning the large adjustment screw at
the green arrow, correct?=C2-Based on the air I hear escaping the exhaus
t stack, I suspect the exhaust valves are sticking orotherwise remaining op
en.=C2-Not sure how I went from great=C2-compression #'s last year to 0
/80 psi this year, but very little surprises=C2-me in maintenance anymore
.=C2-Thoughts gents?Thanks-=C2- =C2-Justin
On Thu, Apr 29, 2021 at 5:09 AM A. Dennis Savarese <dsavarese0812@bellsouth
.net> wrote:
th.net>
Also check the the air injector to make sure it is fully closed.=C2- It
too
has a very small valve inside of it about the size of a pencil eraser.=C2
-
If the little valve spring is broken or the valve remains open, it will
of course affect the compression test.
Dennis
A. Dennis Savarese
334-546-8182
www.yak-52.com
On 4/28/2021 11:58 PM, Justin Drafts wrote:
> Good evening all-
>
> A conundrum for you Housai engine experts; I need some advice to go fwd.
> Doing the compression check today, I hit a weird wall.
>
> With a partner I was checking cylinders starting=C2-with #1 at top, goi
ng
> CW when viewed from cockpit.
> All #'s were good (avg 75/80 psi), until I got the last cylinder, #2.
> We got 0 psi on the pressure gauge.
>
> Checking the pressure tester/gauges/fittings/hose, all are fine and
> perfectly functional.
>
> So we double checked the previous cylinder, which had just 10 min
> prior tested at 74/80 psi.... now it also
> showed 0/80 psi. ??
> No obvious air leaks from oil breather, carburetor, or exhaust stack;
> no oil evident at bases of the cylinders;
> the exhaust and intake stacks are good condition. I had flown the
> plane earlier in the day w/o any negative
> indications.
>
> Pulled the valve covers off to find the rocker arms, springs, etc in
> great condition,=C2-doing their=C2-job when we
> slowly turned the prop thru by hand.
>
> Stuck valves?
>
> We tried the "rope trick" to slip a nylon cord into the cylinder thru
> the open sparkplug hole, then gently run
> the piston up to TDC to try to reseat the possibly stuck-open valves.=C2
-
> As yet, no help.
>
> Fishing for advice & thoughts... what are we missing?
> I've never seen a 0/80 psi reading... a bad piston ring or bad valve,
> should have SOME psi indication 30~60psi.
>
> Thoughts? Pointers?
> Thanks---
>
> Justin Drafts
> N280NC
List" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigat
or?Yak-List
FORUMS -
eferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com
WIKI -
errer" target="_blank">http://wiki.matronics.com
b Site -
=C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
<cyl #2 rocker arm, exhaust.jpg>
Message 32
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|
| Subject: | Re: Housai engine question: compression check |
Lol, I finally started using magical MMO in my oil (Phillips 25W-60) last
year... figured it could only help.
Justin
On Thu, Apr 29, 2021, 8:19 PM David King <kingcj6@aol.com> wrote:
> MMO?
>
> In a message dated 4/29/2021 7:50:21 PM Pacific Standard Time,
> draftsjust417@gmail.com writes:
>
>
> Good info, thanks... did try the mallet whack repair, alas to no avail, at
> least not yet.
> Maybe I didn't rap it sharply enough?
>
> Haven't seen any oil residue at cylinder bases, and thankfully the engine
> is only drinking ~1/2 quart oil per hour, not bad... thx for input!
> Justin
>
> On Thu, Apr 29, 2021, 7:18 PM Jon Boede <jonboede@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> One of the reasons your valve clearances change is because the cylinder is
> sitting lower, having lost part or all of the paper gasket between the
> cylinder and the case.
>
> Grab the cylinder and firmly try to move it side to side and fore-back.
> Check if you see any motion along the 8 studs at the cylinder base or if
> you see a wet line along the base of the cylinder where it meets the engine
> case that changes in appearance as you move the cylinder.
>
> Had your oil consumption been more than one quart an hour recently?
>
> Otherwise, staking the valve is your best bet. Adjust it and if still
> getting air noises in the exhaust have an experienced mechanic show you the
> fine art of staking a valve. Plenty of times they will go from 0 to just
> fine after a good mallet whack.
>
> Jon
>
> On Apr 29, 2021, at 8:34 PM, Justin Drafts <draftsjust417@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> Ok helpful gents and engine experts-
> A fruitful sunny day spent @ hangar with the suspect cylinders.
>
> Checked the small starting air valve: definitely in good working order and
> closing as appropriate.
>
> Pulling off rocker covers and watching the rocker arm and valve springs, I
> see there is
> no gap at TDC between the rocker arm and top of the spring /stem for
> cylinders #2 and #3.
>
> Just so I'm understanding valve lash / clearance correctly:
> - the 0.010-0.014" clearance mentioned is supposed to be here at the red
> circle in the
> attached pic, correct? (While the stem is at its highest point of
> travel/valve fully seated/TDC...)
> -adjusting this clearance/lash requires turning the large adjustment screw
> at the green arrow, correct?
>
> Based on the air I hear escaping the exhaust stack, I suspect the exhaust
> valves are sticking or
> otherwise remaining open.
>
> Not sure how I went from great compression #'s last year to 0/80 psi this
> year, but very little surprises
> me in maintenance anymore.
>
> Thoughts gents?
> Thanks- Justin
>
> On Thu, Apr 29, 2021 at 5:09 AM A. Dennis Savarese <
> dsavarese0812@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>
> dsavarese0812@bellsouth.net>
>
> Also check the the air injector to make sure it is fully closed. It
> too
> has a very small valve inside of it about the size of a pencil eraser.
> If the little valve spring is broken or the valve remains open, it will
> of course affect the compression test.
> Dennis
>
> A. Dennis Savarese
> 334-546-8182
> www.yak-52.com
>
> On 4/28/2021 11:58 PM, Justin Drafts wrote:
> > Good evening all-
> >
> > A conundrum for you Housai engine experts; I need some advice to go fwd.
> > Doing the compression check today, I hit a weird wall.
> >
> > With a partner I was checking cylinders starting with #1 at top, going
> > CW when viewed from cockpit.
> > All #'s were good (avg 75/80 psi), until I got the last cylinder, #2.
> > We got 0 psi on the pressure gauge.
> >
> > Checking the pressure tester/gauges/fittings/hose, all are fine and
> > perfectly functional.
> >
> > So we double checked the previous cylinder, which had just 10 min
> > prior tested at 74/80 psi.... now it also
> > showed 0/80 psi. ??
> > No obvious air leaks from oil breather, carburetor, or exhaust stack;
> > no oil evident at bases of the cylinders;
> > the exhaust and intake stacks are good condition. I had flown the
> > plane earlier in the day w/o any negative
> > indications.
> >
> > Pulled the valve covers off to find the rocker arms, springs, etc in
> > great condition, doing their job when we
> > slowly turned the prop thru by hand.
> >
> > Stuck valves?
> >
> > We tried the "rope trick" to slip a nylon cord into the cylinder thru
> > the open sparkplug hole, then gently run
> > the piston up to TDC to try to reseat the possibly stuck-open valves.
> > As yet, no help.
> >
> > Fishing for advice & thoughts... what are we missing?
> > I've never seen a 0/80 psi reading... a bad piston ring or bad valve,
> > should have SOME psi indication 30~60psi.
> >
> > Thoughts? Pointers?
> > Thanks---
> >
> > Justin Drafts
> > N280NC
>
>
> ==========
> List" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
> ==========
> FORUMS -
> eferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com
> ==========
> WIKI -
> errer" target="_blank">http://wiki.matronics.com
> ==========
> b Site -
> -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
> rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> ==========
>
>
> <cyl #2 rocker arm, exhaust.jpg>
>
>
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