Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 10:53 AM - Re: Engine Out! (Stephen van Dijck)
2. 12:35 PM - Yak52 Charging Issue - intermittent, now solid failure (Michael Airhart)
3. 12:43 PM - Re: Engine Out! (Zeman)
4. 02:07 PM - Re: Engine Out! (Anthony Savarese)
5. 02:09 PM - Re: Yak52 Charging Issue - intermittent, now solid failure (Anthony Savarese)
6. 02:56 PM - Re: Yak52 Charging Issue - intermittent, now solid failure (Michael Airhart)
7. 04:24 PM - Re: Yak52 Charging Issue - intermittent, now solid failure (Michael Airhart)
8. 04:39 PM - Re: Yak52 Charging Issue - intermittent, now solid failure (Mark Pennington)
9. 04:49 PM - Matronics List Forum Web Site Fully Restored... (Matt Dralle)
10. 08:12 PM - Re: Long range fuel tanks (30.5 Gal per side ) (Chuck Marshall)
Message 1
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Hi Dennis,
Good question. It=99s based on what Lycoming says about operating
the engine for only short periods of time on one mag. Like I said my
knowledge is limited. However, just musing here: maybe less than optimal
combustion, uneven heating within a cylinder, some unburnt fuel reducing
oil lubrication of piston/cylinder.
regards
Stephen
> On 24 Aug 2021, at 18:27 , A. Dennis Savarese
<dsavarese0812@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>
<dsavarese0812@bellsouth.net>
>
> Why (probably want to keep it short and at medium power settings and
not too often)? The engine is suppose to be able to run just as well on
one mag as it is on both mags, with a slight RPM drop when running on
one mag only. Does anyone care to discuss why the engine RPM drops by a
small percentage when running on one mag only?
>
> A. Dennis Savarese
> 334-546-8182
> www.yak-52.com
>
> On 8/24/2021 10:15 AM, Stephen van Dijck wrote:
>> I don=99t know a lot about engines but you=99d probably
want to keep it short and at medium power settings and not too often.
>> regards Stephen
>>
>>
>>> On 24 Aug 2021, at 15:57, A. Dennis Savarese
<dsavarese0812@bellsouth.net <mailto:dsavarese0812@bellsouth.net>>
wrote:
>>>
>>> What's ironic is we automatically do a mag check on run up; L,R,B.
But the purpose of having 2 mags is in case one fails in flight. So why
not do a mag check in the air periodically. If you're uncomfortable
with doing that, then do it over your home field and do it fairly often
until you don't have any apprehensions about doing it.
>>> Dennis
>>>
>>> On Tuesday, August 24, 2021, 07:10:21 AM EDT, Mark Bitterlich
<markbitterlich@embarqmail.com <mailto:markbitterlich@embarqmail.com>>
wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> It dawns on me that possibly every once in awhile we should all do a
mag check in flight on a hot engine, and fly at normal power settings
(not full throttle, but at say "cruise power") on each mag one at a time
for a full minute or so to bring to light any "hot coil" malfunctions.
>>>
>>> I know that I sure haven't done that since... well ever. Just might
start unless someone offers a good reason why not to.
>>>
>>> Mark
>>>
>>>
>>> -------- Original message --------
>>> From: Mark Pennington <pennington.construction.inc.1@gmail.com
<mailto:pennington.construction.inc.1@gmail.com>>
>>> Date: 8/23/21 9:02 PM (GMT-05:00)
>>> To: yak-list@matronics.com <mailto:yak-list@matronics.com>
>>> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Engine Out!
>>>
>>> Thank you sir.
>>>
>>> On Mon, Aug 23, 2021 at 8:49 PM Mark Bitterlich
<markbitterlich@embarqmail.com <mailto:markbitterlich@embarqmail.com>>
wrote:
>>>
>>> I would say highly unlikely. But ... it is possible for one mag
>>> to mask an intermittent second mag, then the primary mag goes
>>> tango uniform and the problems with the second mag show up.
>>> Convoluted huh? I concur. Nevertheless, I still offer that if
>>> you determine one mag is BAD, do not go back to BOTH. Switch to
>>> the one mag still working and land immediately.
>>>
>>> Mark
>>>
>>> -------- Original message --------
>>> From: Mark Pennington <pennington.construction.inc.1@gmail.com
>>> <mailto:pennington.construction.inc.1@gmail.com>>
>>> Date: 8/23/21 7:36 PM (GMT-05:00)
>>> To: yak-list@matronics.com <mailto:yak-list@matronics.com>
>>> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Engine Out!
>>>
>>> Mark.
>>>
>>> Based on your comment. How likely is to have both mags crap out
>>> on the same flight. If you stay off of both after determining a
>>> mag is bad. ?
>>>
>>> Interesting perception of his information
>>>
>>> Mark
>>> N621CJ.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, Aug 23, 2021 at 6:03 PM Mark Bitterlich
>>> <markbitterlich@embarqmail.com
>>> <mailto:markbitterlich@embarqmail.com>> wrote:
>>>
>>> If I understood the story, when mag 1 quit and you verified
>>> it bad, you went back to BOTH. That is a mistake. If you
>>> verify a mag as bad, turn it completely off by going to 2.
>>>
>>> A bad mag can kill the motor, weird but true. Happened to
>>> me. Exactly the same way.
>>>
>>> Switching to 2 only, engine ran close to perfect.
>>>
>>> If you went to 2 only and it STILL ran bad, see Dennis and
>>> Richard's explanation.
>>>
>>> Mark
>>>
>>>
>>> -------- Original message --------
>>> From: Zeman <propwash@gmail.com <mailto:propwash@gmail.com>>
>>> Date: 8/23/21 9:40 AM (GMT-05:00)
>>> To: yak-list@matronics.com <mailto:yak-list@matronics.com>
>>> Subject: Yak-List: Engine Out!
>>>
>>> Cruising at 2500AGL all was well. Normal flight; I had
>>> already buzzed a friend=99s place and done a few rolls.
Running
>>> great as always.
>>>
>>> Forty minutes in, I turn towards home.
>>>
>>> Suddenly noticeable power loss accompanied with missing. I
>>> trim for level, scan the gauges to find nothing out of the
>>> green. A mag check and the engine quits on mag 1. Back to
>>> both and the engine is missing however I can hold altitude. I
>>> am 12nm from home base, 5nm from nearest airport.
>>>
>>> I am holding altitude and no engine gauge is registering
>>> anything odd. One mag is dead; I have another. I turn for
home.
>>>
>>> Then the engine starts noticeably missing more. I break the
>>> chain of bad decisions and turn toward the nearest airport
>>> while keeping as much altitude as possible. Fuel and oil
>>> pressure are green; CHT is dropping. Another quick mag check
>>> demonstrates again, mag 1 is offline. VSI shows, I am losing
>>> altitude. Prop forward as well as throttle.
>>>
>>> I am already on frequency. One experimental in the pattern
>>> doing touch and gos. I plan to do the pattern and come in
>>> behind. I call three miles out with intention to land. Two
>>> miles out, the engine changes again.
>>>
>>> I broadcast asking for the experimental=99s position -
=9Cover
>>> the numbers.=9D I continue. I soon realize I cannot
make the
>>> pattern; I must try for a downwind landing. I broadcast
>>> asking for an expedite off the runway, stating =9CI
have and
>>> engine issue.=9D =9COff the runway.=9D is
the response. At 500AGL,
>>> my engine quits. I line up, looks OK. I lower the gear. Looks
>>> a bit sketchy; I hold just above stall. Over the numbers I
>>> deploy the flaps and land. I roll down the runway and manage
>>> to coast onto the taxiway. I radio that I will need a tow.
>>>
>>> Sitting in the cockpit, I call my friend asking what he is
>>> doing today...
>>>
>>> Plane is not bent. Visual flashlight inspection notes nothing
>>> out of the ordinary. No weird leaks. Fuel tanks were not
>>> under vacuum. Hard at the moment to wrap my head around a
>>> failed mag (seemed like a digital failure) and then the slow
>>> decline (analog failure) thereafter.
>>>
>>> Data:
>>> - Yak-52 that I have owned over 20 years.
>>> - Never once had any type hiccup with the engine.
>>> - Still had fuel & oil pressure after mag 1 out while missing
>>> before engine quit.
>>> - It was not shaking or rough, just missing and power loss.
>>>
>>> I will have to troubleshoot, repair and fly back to my
>>> hangar. Thoughts?
>>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 2
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Yak52 Charging Issue - intermittent, now solid failure |
Yak52 in basic stock form.
Generator fail light started to intermittently come on above 40%, but could
not correlate to any particular scenario. The Volt/Amp meter responded as
you would expect, Amps drop to discharge and voltage dropped to around 24V
from 28V.
Sometimes all would be well for 90% of the flight, other times it would
flicker on/off quite a bit.
What I have done so far:
- Mark B's Generator test (isolated the generator and carefully tested by
tying field to +) At 34% RPM voltage is 24V, at 40% voltage is 30V.
Working as expected.
- Removed voltage regulator from floor area shock mount, cleaned
contact studs on regulator and "fingers" on the mount. Checked all wires
for chafing and tightness on lugs.
- Adjusted the voltage control by the throttle while it was previously
charging, voltage changed as expected.
- verified over-voltage breaker was not tripped on the silver box above the
regulator.
- checked each fuse in the electrical box on the right firewall, all tested
good.
- tapped on the different relays on the electrical box with engine at 50%,
It is no longer even attempting to intermittently charge. I am at a hard
failure point.
I have not removed the electrical box off the firewall yet to look at the
field wire as it comes in from the engine bay.
What advice does the group have as next steps?
Thank you
Michael
Message 3
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Yesterday, my same friend met me at the remote airport. We took the cowl
off and did a lengthy visual - nothing out of the ordinary. With cowl off,
I pulled the plane onto the ramp. I climbed in, preflighted, pumped for
fuel pressure and the pressure rose immediately as noted on gauge. I
pressed the go button and it fired right up; mags to 1+2, oil pres
sure
nominal and she ran smoothly...
My friend is watching the de-cowled engine from the outside and gives me
the thumbs-up. I pushed the throttle to 50% and performed a mag check -
even on both, no missing. I let it warm up a few minutes. Once in the
"yellows", I go to 72% and mag check - 2% on each - smooth. I stayed at
that setting for a bit and run on both; prop exercised. I throttled down
to 60ish, stayed a while, then back to 72%; now in the "greens". This time
the mag check demonstrates a 4-5% drop on number 1 and the common 2% on
number 2. I run it a minute on each mag. No missing on 2 however some
noted missing on 1 and the drop is certainly more than before. Without the
mag failure in flight, I may have considered the additional drop as oily or
slightly fouled plugs...
On the 110F ramp, I repositioned the plane so the starboard side is facing
the evening sun. On the =9Cshady=9D side, we removed mag 1.
Tonight, I will prep the NOS mag with the coupler, check points gap, oil
the wick and gather the stuff for timing. I will get back over there
tomorrow for the install and repeat testing.
Message 4
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Bad coil. Order new ones from Richard.
Dennis
Sent from my iPhone
> On Aug 25, 2021, at 3:45 PM, Zeman <propwash@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> Yesterday, my same friend met me at the remote airport. We took the cowl off
and did a lengthy visual - nothing out of the ordinary. With cowl off, I pulled
the plane onto the ramp. I climbed in, preflighted, pumped for fuel pressure
and the pressure rose immediately as noted on gauge. I pressed the go button
and it fired right up; mags to 1+2, oil pressure nominal and she ran smoothly...
> My friend is watching the de-cowled engine from the outside and gives me the
thumbs-up. I pushed the throttle to 50% and performed a mag check - even on both,
no missing. I let it warm up a few minutes. Once in the "yellows", I go
to 72% and mag check - 2% on each - smooth. I stayed at that setting for a bit
and run on both; prop exercised. I throttled down to 60ish, stayed a while,
then back to 72%; now in the "greens". This time the mag check demonstrates
a 4-5% drop on number 1 and the common 2% on number 2. I run it a minute on
each mag. No missing on 2 however some noted missing on 1 and the drop is certainly
more than before. Without the mag failure in flight, I may have considered
the additional drop as oily or slightly fouled plugs...
> On the 110F ramp, I repositioned the plane so the starboard side is facing the
evening sun. On the shady side, we removed mag 1.
> Tonight, I will prep the NOS mag with the coupler, check points gap, oil the
wick and gather the stuff for timing. I will get back over there tomorrow for
the install and repeat testing.
Message 5
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Yak52 Charging Issue - intermittent, now solid failure |
DMR200 failure in the gray electrical panel. Its the reddish colored unit with
all the small wires connected to it.
Dennis
Sent from my iPhone
> On Aug 25, 2021, at 3:37 PM, Michael Airhart <michaelairhart@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> Yak52 in basic stock form.
>
> Generator fail light started to intermittently come on above 40%, but could not
correlate to any particular scenario. The Volt/Amp meter responded as you
would expect, Amps drop to discharge and voltage dropped to around 24V from 28V.
>
> Sometimes all would be well for 90% of the flight, other times it would flicker
on/off quite a bit.
>
> What I have done so far:
> - Mark B's Generator test (isolated the generator and carefully tested by tying
field to +) At 34% RPM voltage is 24V, at 40% voltage is 30V. Working as
expected.
>
> - Removed voltage regulator from floor area shock mount, cleaned contact studs
on regulator and "fingers" on the mount. Checked all wires for chafing and
tightness on lugs.
>
> - Adjusted the voltage control by the throttle while it was previously charging,
voltage changed as expected.
>
> - verified over-voltage breaker was not tripped on the silver box above the regulator.
>
> - checked each fuse in the electrical box on the right firewall, all tested good.
>
> - tapped on the different relays on the electrical box with engine at 50%,
>
> It is no longer even attempting to intermittently charge. I am at a hard failure
point.
>
> I have not removed the electrical box off the firewall yet to look at the field
wire as it comes in from the engine bay.
>
> What advice does the group have as next steps?
>
> Thank you
>
> Michael
>
Message 6
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Yak52 Charging Issue - intermittent, now solid failure |
I failed to mention that my very first test was with the system intact,
engine running, at the generator + output. At idle I measured ~1.0 V and
at 60% RPM ~1.7V.
On Wed, Aug 25, 2021 at 2:41 PM Michael Airhart <michaelairhart@gmail.com>
wrote:
> Yak52 in basic stock form.
>
> Generator fail light started to intermittently come on above 40%, but
> could not correlate to any particular scenario. The Volt/Amp meter
> responded as you would expect, Amps drop to discharge and voltage dropped
> to around 24V from 28V.
>
> Sometimes all would be well for 90% of the flight, other times it would
> flicker on/off quite a bit.
>
> What I have done so far:
> - Mark B's Generator test (isolated the generator and carefully tested by
> tying field to +) At 34% RPM voltage is 24V, at 40% voltage is 30V.
> Working as expected.
>
> - Removed voltage regulator from floor area shock mount, cleaned
> contact studs on regulator and "fingers" on the mount. Checked all wires
> for chafing and tightness on lugs.
>
> - Adjusted the voltage control by the throttle while it was previously
> charging, voltage changed as expected.
>
> - verified over-voltage breaker was not tripped on the silver box above
> the regulator.
>
> - checked each fuse in the electrical box on the right firewall, all
> tested good.
>
> - tapped on the different relays on the electrical box with engine at 50%,
>
> It is no longer even attempting to intermittently charge. I am at a hard
> failure point.
>
> I have not removed the electrical box off the firewall yet to look at the
> field wire as it comes in from the engine bay.
>
> What advice does the group have as next steps?
>
> Thank you
>
> Michael
>
>
Message 7
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Yak52 Charging Issue - intermittent, now solid failure |
I am going to pause this chase and get an alternator and be done with it.
Lighter, simple, parts available, vendor tech support, and hopefully
reliable.
Worthwhile investment on multiple fronts.
On Wed, Aug 25, 2021 at 4:55 PM Michael Airhart <michaelairhart@gmail.com>
wrote:
> I failed to mention that my very first test was with the system intact,
> engine running, at the generator + output. At idle I measured ~1.0 V and
> at 60% RPM ~1.7V.
>
>
> On Wed, Aug 25, 2021 at 2:41 PM Michael Airhart <michaelairhart@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Yak52 in basic stock form.
>>
>> Generator fail light started to intermittently come on above 40%, but
>> could not correlate to any particular scenario. The Volt/Amp meter
>> responded as you would expect, Amps drop to discharge and voltage dropped
>> to around 24V from 28V.
>>
>> Sometimes all would be well for 90% of the flight, other times it would
>> flicker on/off quite a bit.
>>
>> What I have done so far:
>> - Mark B's Generator test (isolated the generator and carefully tested by
>> tying field to +) At 34% RPM voltage is 24V, at 40% voltage is 30V.
>> Working as expected.
>>
>> - Removed voltage regulator from floor area shock mount, cleaned
>> contact studs on regulator and "fingers" on the mount. Checked all wires
>> for chafing and tightness on lugs.
>>
>> - Adjusted the voltage control by the throttle while it was previously
>> charging, voltage changed as expected.
>>
>> - verified over-voltage breaker was not tripped on the silver box above
>> the regulator.
>>
>> - checked each fuse in the electrical box on the right firewall, all
>> tested good.
>>
>> - tapped on the different relays on the electrical box with engine at
>> 50%,
>>
>> It is no longer even attempting to intermittently charge. I am at a hard
>> failure point.
>>
>> I have not removed the electrical box off the firewall yet to look at the
>> field wire as it comes in from the engine bay.
>>
>> What advice does the group have as next steps?
>>
>> Thank you
>>
>> Michael
>>
>>
Message 8
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Yak52 Charging Issue - intermittent, now solid failure |
Mike.
I have the B&C alternator kit on my M14P.
Nice piece. Easy install. Very reliable.
I wouldn't hesitate.
Mark
N621CJ
On Wed, Aug 25, 2021 at 7:28 PM Michael Airhart <michaelairhart@gmail.com>
wrote:
> I am going to pause this chase and get an alternator and be done with it.
> Lighter, simple, parts available, vendor tech support, and hopefully
> reliable.
>
> Worthwhile investment on multiple fronts.
>
> On Wed, Aug 25, 2021 at 4:55 PM Michael Airhart <michaelairhart@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> I failed to mention that my very first test was with the system intact,
>> engine running, at the generator + output. At idle I measured ~1.0 V and
>> at 60% RPM ~1.7V.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Aug 25, 2021 at 2:41 PM Michael Airhart <michaelairhart@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Yak52 in basic stock form.
>>>
>>> Generator fail light started to intermittently come on above 40%, but
>>> could not correlate to any particular scenario. The Volt/Amp meter
>>> responded as you would expect, Amps drop to discharge and voltage dropped
>>> to around 24V from 28V.
>>>
>>> Sometimes all would be well for 90% of the flight, other times it would
>>> flicker on/off quite a bit.
>>>
>>> What I have done so far:
>>> - Mark B's Generator test (isolated the generator and carefully tested
>>> by tying field to +) At 34% RPM voltage is 24V, at 40% voltage is 30V.
>>> Working as expected.
>>>
>>> - Removed voltage regulator from floor area shock mount, cleaned
>>> contact studs on regulator and "fingers" on the mount. Checked all wires
>>> for chafing and tightness on lugs.
>>>
>>> - Adjusted the voltage control by the throttle while it was previously
>>> charging, voltage changed as expected.
>>>
>>> - verified over-voltage breaker was not tripped on the silver box above
>>> the regulator.
>>>
>>> - checked each fuse in the electrical box on the right firewall, all
>>> tested good.
>>>
>>> - tapped on the different relays on the electrical box with engine at
>>> 50%,
>>>
>>> It is no longer even attempting to intermittently charge. I am at a
>>> hard failure point.
>>>
>>> I have not removed the electrical box off the firewall yet to look at
>>> the field wire as it comes in from the engine bay.
>>>
>>> What advice does the group have as next steps?
>>>
>>> Thank you
>>>
>>> Michael
>>>
>>>
Message 9
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Matronics List Forum Web Site Fully Restored... |
Dear Listers,
There has been an issue with the database used to drive the Matronics Lists Forums
Web Site for a few days. I finally got to the bottom of the issue today.
It appears the functionality has been fully restored.
Matt Dralle
Matronics List Administrator
Message 10
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Long range fuel tanks (30.5 Gal per side ) |
Tom,
Try http://centroidproducts.com, ask for Joel or email centroidproducts@gmail.com.
--------
Rhino
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=502966#502966
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/centriodproductsfuelsender_341.jpg
Other Matronics Email List Services
These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.
-- Please support this service by making your Contribution today! --
|