---------------------------------------------------------- Yak-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Fri 02/24/23: 3 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 12:04 AM - Re: CJ6A Huosai Replacement Blades (jacques) 2. 08:11 AM - Re: Re: CJ6A Huosai Replacement Blades (Richard Goode) 3. 12:16 PM - Re: CJ6A Huosai Replacement Blades (jacques) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 12:04:00 AM PST US Subject: Yak-List: Re: CJ6A Huosai Replacement Blades From: "jacques" Well, I had promised not to speak again about my problem with GT propeller but I am obliged in front of their way of doing business with a customer like me. As a reminder, the blades they made for me especially for the Nanchang CJ-6, were only Yak 50/52 blades with a thread adapted for the OEM hub of the Huosai engine. When these blades were delivered they were touching the gills and engine cooling when in coarse pitch. GT propeller asked me to return them and that they would rectify them within the week. The result was a cut in the bottom of the blade that was unacceptable to me, my mechanic and the CAA inspector. GT propeller, after several phone calls, unanswered emails and in front of a lawsuit threat, ended up responding by proposing: These are the alternative options: 1-Return of these modified blades on monday and let you immediately test the plane. 2-During the spring we modify the design similar on GT OEM blades and we send these new blades during the summer ( Design as before without root triming but smaller in cowling area ) 3-return of money using our internal policy. let me know. K R Alex and Paolo My answer was: I only accept option 2 but faster than the summer because GT propeller never respects its words for the delivery time. >From there, no response for a week and a half and in front of my many emails, the answer: Hello, working on blades to return ASAP. No worries. Alex And then, no news for weeks as usualy So I sent an email back offering: I will go for one of these solutions but with conditions: 2-During the spring we modify the design similar on GT OEM blades and we send these new blades during the summer ( Design as before without root triming but smaller in cowling area ) 3-return of money using our internal policy. Solution 2 but before spring. I know ypour very big delay and during spring means like last time in october, so delivery of new blades in late 1st of april. We make a contract and if it is not respected like last time, you pay penalties. What is your internal policy for refund? And after that no more response and by dint of trying on the phone and by email, I was forced to threaten again with a lawsuit. Since then, I have only had one response: "Dear Mr. Jaque, please proceed as you preffer. We are quoting you the cost of labor on hub and policy to return you the founds. Blades perfectly airworthy are demanded by 3 other potential buyers but different paint scheme. K regards Ilva" The original Hub deal was, in exchange for sending my hub to GT at my expense so they could take action for their business, an overhaul. Here is the email that talks about it: -----Original email----- From: GT Propellers info@gt-propellers.com Sent: Thu, 24 Mar 2022 9:03 Subject: Re: GT Hello,very simple.Richard from Hungary sent me the prop shaft to modify my existing M14 3 blade hub.Before we invest many money on new toos I must simulate the OEM hub installation.if you can help me Alex will remmeber the day you need GT!!!! Thanks Alex On 03/24/2022 08:21, Jacques Suire wrote: When do you need it? What kind of measure are you going to do? For a new prop? Without answer since, I was obliged to make a trial because GT propellers keeps my money (5300 US$) and my blades. All this is just for your information and nothing else and I'm sorry to talk about problems instead of planes, but it hurts my heart to know that I will surely lose money because of people like that. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=510263#510263 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 08:11:20 AM PST US From: "Richard Goode" Subject: RE: Yak-List: Re: CJ6A Huosai Replacement Blades I felt it might be useful for me to respond to the email of Jacques since our business is supplying these developed Housai engines of 370+ horsepower, and clearly we were interested in obtaining a more efficient propeller that could usefully transmit this additional power. We are main agents for MT, and my first thought was to contact them since I knew they would make a perfect propeller, albeit potentially expensive. From their side they would have to design a completely new hub to be able to mate with the splined propeller shaft rather than the "flat plate" of the M 14 family of engines. Because of this need to design the new hub the propellers are going to cost Euro 18,250 and on the basis that we ordered a minimum of five of them! So through Nanchang owners in the US, we approached Whirlwind propellers, but they said that there were too busy to take on a new project, and so a couple of our Housai customers went to GT propellers in Italy, and some of this information was passed back to me, but of course our real interest and motivation was in terms of supplying the engines. Since we had supplied an engine to Jacques, I was also aware of the problems that he had had with the trailing edge of the propeller fouling the air intake "gills" on his aircraft. Then Bill Mills, another customer of ours for a new engine, will be getting his new engine before too long and was chasing GT about his propeller delivery, and since I know the people at GT I thought it worth giving them a call this week. It transpired that Alex, the main person, has been quite seriously ill and in hospital, although I understand he is now recovering at home and should be back at work on Monday. However his assistant to whom I spoke said that the work that they had done on the propeller Jacques was purely to get him flying and that they would make a totally new propeller at a later stage. Certainly the "repair" that they had done on his original prop, cutting away the trailing edge looked extremely ugly to my eyes, but, if it were only a temporary measure to keep Jacques flying, then I suppose acceptable and indeed if a perfect prop would come later. In the meantime, I kept thinking about this whole issue of these better propellers, and of course I'm very much biased towards MT despite the cost. GT were very significantly cheaper, but on the basis that they were making new blades to put into the original Housai Hub. I asked MT why they could not do the same and charge dramatically less. Their answer was quite simple product liability. They were concerned that if there were an accident relating to any part of the propeller and indeed possibly the hub itself which was nothing to do with them, it would be seen as "an MT propeller" and they would be seen to be responsible. For this reason they have a specific policy whereby they will only sell a complete propeller. Clearly the dispute between Jacques and GT is between them, but I thought it might be useful to have some further input, and particularly why I could not persuade MT to make a cheaper prop. But I am going to have discussions with MT at the beginning of next week, and I'm reasonably confident that I can get a price reduction from them, but it would be definitely on the basis of needing five orders for MT 3 blade propellers to fit our up-rated engines that we are producing. Hope this helps to explain some of the background to these issues. RICHARD GOODE AEROBATICS Rhodds Farm, Lyonshall, Hereford, HR5 3LW, UK Tel: +44 (0)1544 340120 Fax: +44 (0)1544 340129 e-mail: richard.goode@russianaeros.com www.russianaeros.com WORLD LEADERS IN SOVIET & CHINESE RADIAL AIRCRAFT ENGINES In partnership with Aerometal Kft, Hungary. -----Original Message----- From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com On Behalf Of jacques Sent: 24 February 2023 08:02 Subject: Yak-List: Re: CJ6A Huosai Replacement Blades Well, I had promised not to speak again about my problem with GT propeller but I am obliged in front of their way of doing business with a customer like me. As a reminder, the blades they made for me especially for the Nanchang CJ-6, were only Yak 50/52 blades with a thread adapted for the OEM hub of the Huosai engine. When these blades were delivered they were touching the gills and engine cooling when in coarse pitch. GT propeller asked me to return them and that they would rectify them within the week. The result was a cut in the bottom of the blade that was unacceptable to me, my mechanic and the CAA inspector. GT propeller, after several phone calls, unanswered emails and in front of a lawsuit threat, ended up responding by proposing: These are the alternative options: 1-Return of these modified blades on monday and let you immediately test the plane. 2-During the spring we modify the design similar on GT OEM blades and we send these new blades during the summer ( Design as before without root triming but smaller in cowling area ) 3-return of money using our internal policy. let me know. K R Alex and Paolo My answer was: I only accept option 2 but faster than the summer because GT propeller never respects its words for the delivery time. >From there, no response for a week and a half and in front of my many emails, the answer: Hello, working on blades to return ASAP. No worries. Alex And then, no news for weeks as usualy So I sent an email back offering: I will go for one of these solutions but with conditions: 2-During the spring we modify the design similar on GT OEM blades and we send these new blades during the summer ( Design as before without root triming but smaller in cowling area ) 3-return of money using our internal policy. Solution 2 but before spring. I know ypour very big delay and during spring means like last time in october, so delivery of new blades in late 1st of april. We make a contract and if it is not respected like last time, you pay penalties. What is your internal policy for refund? And after that no more response and by dint of trying on the phone and by email, I was forced to threaten again with a lawsuit. Since then, I have only had one response: "Dear Mr. Jaque, please proceed as you preffer. We are quoting you the cost of labor on hub and policy to return you the founds. Blades perfectly airworthy are demanded by 3 other potential buyers but different paint scheme. K regards Ilva" The original Hub deal was, in exchange for sending my hub to GT at my expense so they could take action for their business, an overhaul. Here is the email that talks about it: -----Original email----- From: GT Propellers info@gt-propellers.com Sent: Thu, 24 Mar 2022 9:03 Subject: Re: GT Hello,very simple.Richard from Hungary sent me the prop shaft to modify my existing M14 3 blade hub.Before we invest many money on new toos I must simulate the OEM hub installation.if you can help me Alex will remmeber the day you need GT!!!! Thanks Alex On 03/24/2022 08:21, Jacques Suire wrote: When do you need it? What kind of measure are you going to do? For a new prop? Without answer since, I was obliged to make a trial because GT propellers keeps my money (5300 US$) and my blades. All this is just for your information and nothing else and I'm sorry to talk about problems instead of planes, but it hurts my heart to know that I will surely lose money because of people like that. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=510263#510263 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 12:16:39 PM PST US Subject: Yak-List: Re: CJ6A Huosai Replacement Blades From: "jacques" Richard, Alex never, I say never told me that the ugly and for me dangerous modification of the blades where to keep me flying. He just asked me to choose one of the 3 : 1-Return of these modified blades on monday and let you immediately test the plane. 2-During the spring we modify the design similar on GT OEM blades and we send these new blades during the summer ( Design as before without root triming but smaller in cowling area ) 3-return of money using our internal policy. I do not need these blades to fly as the original propeller can accept 345/355 HP and as you told me, it is good for the breakin of your engine to keep 2400 rppm and later 2500. 2400 is around 310/315 HP, so easy with the old but working propeller and even 2500 is 353 HP, so also easy. The hub is the same than the Yak 52, just the flange or shaft are different, so it is a very strong hub. The original prop is just not aerodynamic efficent. And about Alex and GT, I am not the only one with problems : they never answer, the do not respect delays and words , they are not even polite to answer explaining they are late. They just ask money and do what the want after. And Alex is always with special problems. On my side : earthquake close to the factory, hospital, travel to Australia (or Austria, I do not know), travel to USA for Oshkosh, and more. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=510268#510268 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message yak-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Yak-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/yak-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/yak-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.