---------------------------------------------------------- Zenith-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Mon 12/02/02: 9 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 10:45 AM - Re: XL Fuel System (David Barth) 2. 11:48 AM - Re: XL Fuel System (Gary Gower) 3. 12:31 PM - Re: XL Fuel System (wizard-24@juno.com) 4. 02:11 PM - Re: XL Fuel System (Grant Corriveau) 5. 03:26 PM - Re: Zenith flyers home airports (Matthew Mucker) 6. 04:02 PM - Instrument panel layout (Bill Steer) 7. 05:24 PM - Instrument panel layout (Fred or Sandy Hulen) 8. 05:33 PM - Re: Instrument panel layout (Larry C. McFarland) 9. 05:44 PM - Re: Instrument panel layout (George Swinford) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 10:45:48 AM PST US From: David Barth Subject: Re: Zenith-List: XL Fuel System --> Zenith-List message posted by: David Barth Hi Mike. I am not at the stage you are but have talked with Chris Heintz about the tank plumming. He said it would be no problem treating both tanks in each wing like one tank. Connect the tanks at the top and bottom. The only filler and vent is on the outboard end of the outboard tank. The inboard tank is sealed - no vent or filler. You can put the fuel sender guage on either tank depending on the factor of safety you want. You would still want to put drains in the lowest point of each though. This will simplify the plumbing a lot and for now it is what I plan to do. I haven't gone through the process far enough to address your other concerns but this simplification should help all around. If this solution is in conflict with some regulation or other, please let me know list David > > OK, I'm at the point now where I can no longer just > stare at the plane > and wonder where and how the fuel lines will be run. > Time to get to it! > Problem is, I'm having trouble figuring out how to > plumb for 4 tanks for > my XL, so I was wondering what everyone else is > doing. > > Here's my situation: Two main wing tanks (inboard), > and two auxilliary > tanks (outboard). That means 4 fuel lines total -- > two from each side of > the plane entering the fuselage. The gascolator is > already installed in > the floor of the cabin per ZAC's plans. So now I > have to decide what's > best.....do I run each tank independently to its own > valve, or do I "T" > them together so I have only 2 systems. And if I "T" > them.....do I > connect the two outboard tanks to each other, or do > I "T" each set of > wing tanks? I'm not sure how the fuel will flow when > one tanks empties > under a "T"d system. And as for valves, to avoid > having a bump in the > fuel lines, I suppose they'll have to be installed > on the floor channel > per the plans....but that seems awfully hard to > reach the valves that > would over in the passenger side of the cockpit. I > suppose I could use > one of those expensive Andair valves with an > extension so the control > handle can be mounted on the center section, but > they don't seem to make > one that accomodates four separate tanks. > Thanks, > > Mike Fortunato > 601XL > ===== David Barth 601 XL Plansbuilder Currently making parts. Soob EA-82 SPFI ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 11:48:41 AM PST US From: Gary Gower Subject: Re: Zenith-List: XL Fuel System --> Zenith-List message posted by: Gary Gower The only comment I have (similar instalation in diferent plane in our Club) is that to get both tanks full, will take some time, the gasoline has to transfer from one tank (out) to the other tank (inner) to get both of them full, this time will depend directly in the size of the gasoline tube that conects them. Saludos Gary Gower --- David Barth wrote: > --> Zenith-List message posted by: David Barth > > > Hi Mike. I am not at the stage you are but have > talked with Chris Heintz about the tank plumming. He > said it would be no problem treating both tanks in > each wing like one tank. Connect the tanks at the top > and bottom. The only filler and vent is on the > outboard end of the outboard tank. The inboard tank is > sealed - no vent or filler. You can put the fuel > sender guage on either tank depending on the factor of > safety you want. You would still want to put drains > in the lowest point of each though. This will > simplify the plumbing a lot and for now it is what I > plan to do. > > I haven't gone through the process far enough to > address your other concerns but this simplification > should help all around. > > If this solution is in conflict with some regulation > or other, please let me know list > David > > > > OK, I'm at the point now where I can no longer just > > stare at the plane > > and wonder where and how the fuel lines will be run. > > Time to get to it! > > Problem is, I'm having trouble figuring out how to > > plumb for 4 tanks for > > my XL, so I was wondering what everyone else is > > doing. > > > > Here's my situation: Two main wing tanks (inboard), > > and two auxilliary > > tanks (outboard). That means 4 fuel lines total -- > > two from each side of > > the plane entering the fuselage. The gascolator is > > already installed in > > the floor of the cabin per ZAC's plans. So now I > > have to decide what's > > best.....do I run each tank independently to its own > > valve, or do I "T" > > them together so I have only 2 systems. And if I "T" > > them.....do I > > connect the two outboard tanks to each other, or do > > I "T" each set of > > wing tanks? I'm not sure how the fuel will flow when > > one tanks empties > > under a "T"d system. And as for valves, to avoid > > having a bump in the > > fuel lines, I suppose they'll have to be installed > > on the floor channel > > per the plans....but that seems awfully hard to > > reach the valves that > > would over in the passenger side of the cockpit. I > > suppose I could use > > one of those expensive Andair valves with an > > extension so the control > > handle can be mounted on the center section, but > > they don't seem to make > > one that accomodates four separate tanks. > > > Thanks, > > > > Mike Fortunato > > 601XL > > > > ===== > David Barth > 601 XL Plansbuilder > Currently making parts. > Soob EA-82 SPFI > > > > _-> > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 12:31:45 PM PST US Subject: Re: Zenith-List: XL Fuel System From: wizard-24@juno.com --> Zenith-List message posted by: wizard-24@juno.com > Hi Mike. I am not at the stage you are but have > talked with Chris Heintz about the tank plumming. He > said it would be no problem treating both tanks in > each wing like one tank. Connect the tanks at the top > and bottom. The problem with this solution is that I have already installed the tanks in the wings (and installed sending units in both tanks of one wing), and they are already plumbed per ZAC's XL plans whereby the outboard tank's fuel line runs through a welded sleeve in the inboard tank. So, I could T them together, but only after both lines leave the wing. I'm not sure this would be wise? Mike Fortunato 601XL ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 02:11:34 PM PST US Subject: Re: Zenith-List: XL Fuel System From: Grant Corriveau --> Zenith-List message posted by: Grant Corriveau on 02/12/01 12:38, wizard-24@juno.com at wizard-24@juno.com wrote: >...do I run each tank independently to its own valve, or do I "T" > them together so I have only 2 systems. The older HDS systems with a tank in the wing locker AND an aux tank in the leading edge, the two are Teed together and works as one tank per wing. However, if your tanks are inboard/outboard in the leading edge, because the wing has positive dihedral (the ob tank is higher), you might not be able to do this. If your inboard tank has a vent tube or vented cap, then this would be the limit of how high you could fill the outboard tank in a T'eed system ... However, if your inboard tank was somehow vented into the top corner of the outboard tank, then it could work... With respect to wiring, my routing on the HDS would not work on the XL due to the different wingroot attachment point.... -- Grant Corriveau Montreal Zodiac 601hds/CAM100 C-GHTF ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 03:26:51 PM PST US From: "Matthew Mucker" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Zenith flyers home airports --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Matthew Mucker" All, The numerous "put me on the map, too!" emails without the do not archive tag have been somewhat disturbing to me. No one has offered to create a map of builders. I am exploring the idea of hosting a buiders' database on my web site. Possibly. Maybe. As in, now's not the time to say, "add me too!" I am gathering the resources I would need to host such a resource for fellow builders. At this time, I'm in need of a database that has airport codes along with the latitude and longitude of the airport. If you can point me to such a database, I would greatly appreciate it if you could send me a link off-list. Otherwise, if and when I create a website for this purpose, I'll let y'all know. -Matt Do Not Archive ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 04:02:58 PM PST US From: "Bill Steer" Subject: Zenith-List: Instrument panel layout --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bill Steer" I'm laying out my instrument panel (winter work in Maine). I know about software like Panel Planner, but am looking for something like paper cutouts of varous instruments for now. Does anybody know if such a thing exists? Thanks for info. Bill ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 05:24:46 PM PST US From: "Fred or Sandy Hulen" Subject: Zenith-List: Instrument panel layout --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Fred or Sandy Hulen" > I'm laying out my instrument panel. I know about software like Panel Planner, but am looking for something like paper cutouts of varous instruments for now. Does anybody know if such a thing exists? Bill ++ Bill, As a suggestion, Sky Sports has a neat catalog of all kinds of instruments in full color and full size. They will gladly give you two catalogs which will allow you to cut one up and save the other one. I laid out my panel that way and found it great because I could rearrange the layout so quickly and easily. Incidentally, I bought several instruments from them, fuel level sensors, and some headphones, and found the quality of the them to be very nice, and those folks are great to do business with. Fred Jabiru 3300 powered 601 HDS (N601LX ) now doing taxi tests in prep for first flight ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 05:33:35 PM PST US From: "Larry C. McFarland" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Instrument panel layout --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Larry C. McFarland" Bill, The Aircraft Spruce catalog has a page or two on the dimensions you need for each type of instrument with cutouts for the rate of climb and the sensitive altimeter, etc. Do a layout on the panel directly with ink marker on a compass and square. Adjust for centerlines. There's guidance on spacing too. I must have laid out the final panel and readjusted it 4 or 5 times. I cut a bunch of scrap aluminum to set fly-cutter diameter accurately. The cutouts were done with a piece of masking tape placed over a good cutout template, marked it and restuck it on the 45-degree radial for the instrument and marked steps lightly around it with a punch. Then cut close with a nibbler, slowly on .065, and filed to the lines. Got a really good fit in all. I made templates too, but had to do it on the panel to see the proportions for the layout. Hope this helps, Larry C. McFarland - 601hds @ http://www.macsmachine.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Steer" Subject: Zenith-List: Instrument panel layout > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bill Steer" > > I'm laying out my instrument panel (winter work in Maine). I know about software like Panel Planner, but am looking for something like paper cutouts of varous instruments for now. Does anybody know if such a thing exists? > > Thanks for info. > > Bill ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 05:44:20 PM PST US From: "George Swinford" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Instrument panel layout --> Zenith-List message posted by: "George Swinford" Bill: The Aircraft Spruce catalog, page 365 has the dimensions of the standard instruments. That's a start, at least. George ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Steer" Subject: Zenith-List: Instrument panel layout > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bill Steer" > > I'm laying out my instrument panel (winter work in Maine). I know about software like Panel Planner, but am looking for something like paper cutouts of varous instruments for now. Does anybody know if such a thing exists? > > Thanks for info. > > Bill > >