---------------------------------------------------------- Zenith-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Thu 12/19/02: 16 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 05:37 AM - Engine mount ch701 (Rodgers, Robert) 2. 09:06 AM - Re: Engine mount ch701 (Gary Gower) 3. 11:49 AM - lengthening 701 wings (Victor Philip du Preez) 4. 11:52 AM - Re: Jabiru Electrical Budget (Grant Corriveau) 5. 12:48 PM - stabilizer (Carlos Sa) 6. 01:06 PM - Re: stabilizer (JEEdmondson@aol.com) 7. 01:30 PM - Re: lengthening 701 wings (F. Hostettler) 8. 01:36 PM - Use of Unibit to Drill through thicker material, like .093 extrusion (Steve Danielson) 9. 02:47 PM - Re: Use of Unibit to Drill through thicker material, like .093 e... (randewilbers1@aol.com) 10. 02:49 PM - Skin drilling (Aaron) 11. 03:17 PM - Re: Skin drilling (Aaron) 12. 05:05 PM - Re: lengthening 701 wings (Gary Gower) 13. 05:06 PM - Re: stabilizer (Carl Bertrand) 14. 05:09 PM - Re: Skin drilling (Matthew Mucker) 15. 05:14 PM - Re: stabilizer (Gary Gower) 16. 07:16 PM - Re: stabilizer (Larry C. McFarland) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 05:37:29 AM PST US From: "Rodgers, Robert" Subject: Zenith-List: Engine mount ch701 --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Rodgers, Robert" Hi All, Does anyone have access to someone ( preferably Canadian ) that can make an engine mount for the 701 and 912 combination for a reasonable price? I'm going to put in a Geo/Raven redrive combination mounted horizontally and it looks like the best platform to start from would be the 912 mount. I imagine that I'll have to change it some, but the should be about the same. Thanks Rob CH701 scratch building. ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 09:06:55 AM PST US From: Gary Gower Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Engine mount ch701 --> Zenith-List message posted by: Gary Gower Hi Robert, We will appreciate very much to keep us updated in your instalation, I think that the Geo Raven conversion is a winner, at least in several trikes has lots of trouble free hours, I have been in the Geo list for a while. Saludos Gary Gower 701 912S kit --- "Rodgers, Robert" wrote: > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Rodgers, Robert" > > > Hi All, > Does anyone have access to someone ( preferably Canadian ) > that can > make an engine mount for the 701 and 912 combination for a reasonable > price? > I'm going to put in a Geo/Raven redrive combination mounted > horizontally and > it looks like the best platform to start from would be the 912 mount. > I > imagine that I'll have to change it some, but the should be about the > same. > > Thanks > Rob > CH701 scratch building. > > > > _-> > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 11:49:07 AM PST US From: "Victor Philip du Preez" Subject: Zenith-List: lengthening 701 wings --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Victor Philip du Preez" I hope you can help me. In September 1999 CLAUDE posted this on the Zenith List. At that time his e-mail address was claude.plathey@wanadoo.fr but is redundant now. 7. THE modification I should have made Build a 9.80m span wing instead of 8.22m. Due to old UL regs now obsolete here, most 701s built in France had to have this span. They fly MUCH better, I know a 701 with a Hirth F30 which is a HELL of STOL and lands (in clean) within a handkerchief. Could you please elaborate on this comment regarding what should be done to the wing structure to accommodate the lengthening of the wing. Where can I get more information? Anybody still have contact with Claude? Thank you, Victor du Preez 701 plans build, Pretoria, South Africa ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 11:52:40 AM PST US Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Jabiru Electrical Budget From: Grant Corriveau --> Zenith-List message posted by: Grant Corriveau on 02/12/15 12:43, ac6qj@earthlink.net at ac6qj@earthlink.net wrote: > --> Zenith-List message posted by: ac6qj@earthlink.net > > Hello List, > > I've been considering a Jabiru 3300 engine installation but am > disappointed by the engine's electrical generating capacity of 40 > watts (i.e. 20 Amps at 13.8). A reasonable plan for avionics and > lighting is shown below. The worse case operational scenario places > the Jabiru 3300 electrical budget at a 117 watt deficit. A nice budget analysis, but you shouldn't consider this a normal, continuous load. For example, how long will you be transmitting on the Comm radio? A few seconds at a time, usually. How long will your landing light be ON? A few minutes at a time - or a bit longer if you are flying circuits? How much time is your intercom actually demanding full power (i.e. more silence than talking hopefully). Does the transponder pull that power fulltime, or just in pulses when it replies to the interrogation? I'd hazard a wag (wildass guess) that the average fulltime load would be more like 15 amps with pulses to 20+ for short durations. Also if the alternator is rated at 20 amps continuous, it probably has some sort of short term capability to go beyond this (depending upon rpm?)... without hurting anything. And then there's the battery, as someone else has mentioned already... Also,fwiw, I have a 60 amp alternator on my CAM100, but I don't recall seeing it ever go above 15 amps or so, and that was just to recharge the batteries after they'd been run down a bit. Mind you I don't have all the postion/interour lights yet, that you list. -- Grant Corriveau Montreal Zodiac 601hds/CAM100 C-GHTF ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 12:48:58 PM PST US From: Carlos Sa Subject: Zenith-List: stabilizer --> Zenith-List message posted by: Carlos Sa Hello, all I am about ready to start drilling the stabilizer skin, when I remembered a problem I had when building the rudder: As the drill bit goes through the skin, it presses the rib flange down, which flexes a bit before the hole gets drilled. This results on the flange's hole being misaligned with the hole on the skin. After discarding one rib, I avoided the problem by placing wood blocks under the rib flange. I'm sure I'm not the first one to have this problem - how did others go about it?? Also, since I am already writing, how did (scratch builders) elect to drill the skin? I see two basic alternatives: lay the skin flat on the workbench, measure and drill pilot holes. Or, position the skin on the skelleton, measure and drill. I don't feel either is particularly precise ... Ideas? Thanks in advance Carlos Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 01:06:34 PM PST US From: JEEdmondson@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: stabilizer --> Zenith-List message posted by: JEEdmondson@aol.com your pressing too hard. use a very light touch. Jimmy Edmondson jeedmondson@aol.com ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 01:30:47 PM PST US From: "F. Hostettler" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: lengthening 701 wings --> Zenith-List message posted by: "F. Hostettler" You wrote: I hope you can help me. In September 1999 CLAUDE posted this on the Zenith List. At that time his e-mail address was claude.plathey@wanadoo.fr but is redundant now. 7. THE modification I should have made Build a 9.80m span wing instead of 8.22m. Due to old UL regs now obsolete here, most 701s built in France had to have this span. They fly MUCH better, I know a 701 with a Hirth F30 which is a HELL of STOL and lands (in clean) within a handkerchief. Could you please elaborate on this comment regarding what should be done to the wing structure to accommodate the lengthening of the wing. Where can I get more information? Anybody still have contact with Claude? Thank you, Victor du Preez 701 plans build, Pretoria, South Africa ------------------------------------------------------ Hi Victor, Claude's email address is as follows: cplathey@club-internet.fr Kind regards, Fredy http://www.zenair.buz.ch . -- +++ GMX - Mail, Messaging & more http://www.gmx.net +++ NEU: Mit GMX ins Internet. Rund um die Uhr fr 1 ct/ Min. surfen! ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 01:36:41 PM PST US From: "Steve Danielson" Subject: Zenith-List: Use of Unibit to Drill through thicker material, like .093 extrusion --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Steve Danielson" I had a weird scratch appear on the backside of a piece of .093 extrusion that I drilled (through a size 20 pilot hole) to 1/4" using a drill press and the unibit that has only about 5 size, but each size cutting area is around 10mm or so long (it is the long and skinny unibit, not the short & fat ones that have a bunch of sizes) I sent Nick a picture of the scratch and asked his opinion, he said he couldn't see the scratch, and not to use the Unibit to drill through thicker material like that extrusion, only through sheet. I thought the long skinny unibit was for drilling through thicker material, that's why each size had about the 10mm length. I don't mind using "regular" drill bits but I am wondering why I got that long unibit (the fat ones have all the same sizes as this long one) if not for drilling through thicker material. Any thoughts? Steve ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 02:47:49 PM PST US From: randewilbers1@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Use of Unibit to Drill through thicker material, like .093 e... --> Zenith-List message posted by: randewilbers1@aol.com Steve: Are both "unibits" manufactured by the same company? Since the patent ran out on the unibit, a number of companies, including several Chinese, have made their version of the tool. I was an acquaintance of the original designer in Kansas City. He owned Beaver Drill and Tool and I owned Helco Precision Cutting Tools. I would use a step drill for the larger sizes in thicker material. The small diameter should be approximately 2/3rds of the large of finish diameter, and the length of step should be .050" longer than the maximum thickness of the material to be drilled. The pilot (step) portion should have a split point and be 118 degree included angle. The "split" at the chisel angle should be 4 degree positive. This will give you a hole that will not have a periferral extrusion on the exit side and the hole size should be within .002" of the finish drill portion. The reason that the unibit isn't recommended for the thicker sizes is that there isn't any "elevator" action for the chip ejection with a straight flute drill such as the unibit. Sometimes the chips roll in the flute and a burr may be pushed out the backside or exit side. And chips rotating in the flute would not break up into manageable sizes and could rotate and scratch. Hope this info helps. Dick Wilbers St.Louis ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 02:49:11 PM PST US From: "Aaron" Subject: Zenith-List: Skin drilling --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Aaron" > As the drill bit goes through the skin, it presses the rib flange down, which flexes The best drill I've used for drilling skins is one I made from discarded auto heater motors. They run and start very fast so you don't need to center punch, but don't use your fingers to temporarily back up cause you'll drill holes in your fingers, they,re that fast. I tapped a piece of tubing on the shaft and then epoxied a bit in the tube. One motor for each size drill. Cheap at the salvage yard. Use a good switch $4 or $5 at Ace hardware. I use a small battery that I carry around (motorcycle). These motors run about 10,000 RPM no load, no drill motors, even the cheapies run that fast! Aaron 601 HDTD plans 75% SUB ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 03:17:31 PM PST US From: "Aaron" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Skin drilling --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Aaron" If you want to see a picture let me know off list Aaron DO NOT ARCHIVE ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 05:05:45 PM PST US From: Gary Gower Subject: Re: Zenith-List: lengthening 701 wings --> Zenith-List message posted by: Gary Gower Hello Victor, I found his construction page: http://perso.wanadoo.fr/f.pocino/Multiaxes/zenair-plathey.htm His e-mail is the same... sorry. ****** In this page there is an article writen by Claude, maybe they have his newer e-mail: http://www.lagoon.nc/apnc/sommaire.htm ***** Another e-mail: cplathey@club-internet.fr (this one is from another list) is an old one, maybe still he reads it. *** Hope this helps, Saludos Gary Gower Guadalajara, Jalisco, Mexico 701 912S Kit. --- Victor Philip du Preez wrote: > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Victor Philip du Preez" > > > I hope you can help me. In September 1999 CLAUDE posted this on the > Zenith List. > At that time his e-mail address was claude.plathey@wanadoo.fr but is > redundant now. > > 7. THE modification I should have made Build a 9.80m span wing > instead of 8.22m. > Due to old UL regs now obsolete here, most 701s built in France had > to have this > span. They fly MUCH better, I know a 701 with a Hirth F30 which is a > HELL of STOL > and lands (in clean) within a handkerchief. > > Could you please elaborate on this comment regarding what should be > done to the wing structure > to accommodate the lengthening of the wing. Where can I get more > information? Anybody still > have contact with Claude? > > Thank you, > > Victor du Preez > 701 plans build, Pretoria, South Africa > > > > _-> > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 05:06:53 PM PST US From: "Carl Bertrand" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: stabilizer --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Carl Bertrand" Hi Carlos. From your short post I sense that you may be drilling both the skin and rib in one operation. I have found that if you start by marking (wide line) the center of the rib flange and mark the top of the skin where the rib should be positioned, you can then start with a pilot holes through the skin to center the flange using the center line, then drill the pilot through the flange and cleco. You need a good sharp drill for these pilot holes and gentle pressure for the first one in the line so as not to bend the flange. If you use a cleco in the last hole you've drilled it will help to stabilize the flange while your drilling the one next to it. Any minor misalignment will be corrected when you drill to the final rivet size. Hope this helps, Carl 701/912/amphibs ----- Original Message ----- From: "Carlos Sa" Subject: Zenith-List: stabilizer > --> Zenith-List message posted by: Carlos Sa > > Hello, all > > > I am about ready to start drilling the stabilizer skin, when I remembered a problem > I had when building the rudder: > As the drill bit goes through the skin, it presses the rib flange down, which flexes > a bit before the hole gets drilled. This results on the flange's hole being > misaligned with the hole on the skin. > After discarding one rib, I avoided the problem by placing wood blocks under the rib > flange. > > I'm sure I'm not the first one to have this problem - how did others go about it?? > > Also, since I am already writing, how did (scratch builders) elect to drill the > skin? > I see two basic alternatives: lay the skin flat on the workbench, measure and drill > pilot holes. > Or, position the skin on the skelleton, measure and drill. > > I don't feel either is particularly precise ... > > Ideas? > > > Thanks in advance > > Carlos > > Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca > > > UMIDS FROM ADDRESS: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com > > ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 05:09:20 PM PST US From: "Matthew Mucker" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Skin drilling --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Matthew Mucker" Aaron, This sounds interesting enough that I think we'd all like to see a picture ON-list! :) Please post one using the list's photoshare feature. This sounds VERY intruiging! -Matt do not archive. > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Aaron > Sent: Thursday, December 19, 2002 5:17 PM > To: zenith-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Skin drilling > > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Aaron" > > If you want to see a picture let me know off list > > Aaron > > DO NOT ARCHIVE > > ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 05:14:06 PM PST US From: Gary Gower Subject: Re: Zenith-List: stabilizer --> Zenith-List message posted by: Gary Gower He had the same problem, but only in the first hole... We use a variable speed drill, we use low speed and try as little preassure as possible, once the skin is drilled. It takes just a few seconds more, but the flange will not bend. We position the skins on the skeleton and messure. Another good thing is to put some masking tape on the drill bit to avoid hitting the skin with the chuck, the mark of the chuck around the rivett is not professional :-) Saludos Gary Gower. --- Carlos Sa wrote: > --> Zenith-List message posted by: Carlos Sa > > Hello, all > > > I am about ready to start drilling the stabilizer skin, when I > remembered a problem > I had when building the rudder: > As the drill bit goes through the skin, it presses the rib flange > down, which flexes > a bit before the hole gets drilled. This results on the flange's hole > being > misaligned with the hole on the skin. > After discarding one rib, I avoided the problem by placing wood > blocks under the rib > flange. > > I'm sure I'm not the first one to have this problem - how did others > go about it?? > > Also, since I am already writing, how did (scratch builders) elect to > drill the > skin? > I see two basic alternatives: lay the skin flat on the workbench, > measure and drill > pilot holes. > Or, position the skin on the skelleton, measure and drill. > > I don't feel either is particularly precise ... > > Ideas? > > > Thanks in advance > > Carlos > > Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca > > > > _-> > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 07:16:03 PM PST US From: "Larry C. McFarland" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: stabilizer --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Larry C. McFarland" Carlos, I too tried to do what you describe on my rudder and the last hole walked right off the flange and cut a nice slot in the skin. Started over. It's much more practical to lay out the ribs on the skin after measuring for centers of the ribs and marking these centers on the flanges. Set your interval and make consistent pitches work around the crimps and drill the skin flat on the table one side only. With the skin bent, match the folded skin, cleco to the table and match drill the holes thru the first pattern. Then tighten the skin on the skeleton and ink mark the holes thru the skin when the rib centerlines are visible thru the holes. Remove the skin and drill or punch each hole in the rib accurately. Cleco and then check for defects. Debur, prime and rivet. Hope this helps. Larry C. McFarland ----- Original Message ----- From: "Carlos Sa" Subject: Zenith-List: stabilizer > --> Zenith-List message posted by: Carlos Sa > > Hello, all > > > I am about ready to start drilling the stabilizer skin, when I remembered a problem > I had when building the rudder: > As the drill bit goes through the skin, it presses the rib flange down, which flexes > a bit before the hole gets drilled. This results on the flange's hole being > misaligned with the hole on the skin. > After discarding one rib, I avoided the problem by placing wood blocks under the rib > flange. > > I'm sure I'm not the first one to have this problem - how did others go about it?? > > Also, since I am already writing, how did (scratch builders) elect to drill the > skin? > I see two basic alternatives: lay the skin flat on the workbench, measure and drill > pilot holes. > Or, position the skin on the skelleton, measure and drill. > > I don't feel either is particularly precise ... > > Ideas? > > > Thanks in advance > > Carlos >