---------------------------------------------------------- Zenith-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Tue 12/24/02: 13 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 03:36 AM - ZAC praise (Lowell Metz) 2. 04:08 AM - Re: ZAC praise (Alexander Birca (RMD)) 3. 04:10 AM - Very good christmas for everyone! (Jari Kaija) 4. 06:38 AM - Re: Rudder deflection (Paul Sharpe) 5. 07:20 AM - Re: Re: (Bill Steer) 6. 08:12 AM - Greeting from Iceland. (Johann G.) 7. 08:37 AM - Re: Greeting from Iceland. (Randy L. Thwing) 8. 08:43 AM - Sebastian Heintz & ZAC bashing (Gary Liming) 9. 01:23 PM - Christmas and Holiday (Fred or Sandy Hulen) 10. 02:26 PM - To Randy Thwing (Johann G.) 11. 04:46 PM - Re: Christmas and Holiday (Chuck Deiterich) 12. 08:36 PM - Christmas airplane related story (Jim and Lucy) 13. 09:01 PM - Re: Christmas airplane related story (Jim and Lucy) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 03:36:10 AM PST US From: Lowell Metz Subject: Zenith-List: ZAC praise --> Zenith-List message posted by: Lowell Metz I have been following the " slam Chris and ZAC" thread for the last couple of days and have read "blasts " in the past. Although I rarely reply to any comments on list I felt compelled to add my 2 cents worth. ( And that isn't worth much today). I am a tool and die maker by trade, an automotive tooling engineer by profession, and a retired USN Aviation Structures Mechanic Chief ( retired ) and am building my forth plane ( CH 701 )as way of background for my perspective. The ZAC designs are the best utilization of material application in simplistic engineering form I have worked with. The ZAC support is timely and straight forward. ZAC is price competitive in their market. Time and again as I built my plane I wondered why something was designed the way it was until I really studied it and always found that there were three design criteria underlying it. Safety, strength, and ease of construction. We are building fun recreational aircraft hoping to save a few dollars with sweat equity. It takes some thinking and a little skill to harvest some of the rewards. I have met with, and sat in on many of Chris's lectures and hold the man in high regard. We have a designer that most kit companies only dream of. If Chris were to tip over and bump his head, numbers and formulas wound run out all over the place. Just check out the last two issues of Experimenter and explain to me what each formula means. I don't want to sound too cruel here but if you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen. Really, maybe another hobby would be better suited for some people, Lowell Metz CH 701 engine to go Do Not Archive ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 04:08:03 AM PST US From: "Alexander Birca (RMD)" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: ZAC praise --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Alexander Birca (RMD)" Hi all, I am very far from all of you (geographically) and just intend to build, but I am totally agree Lowell opinion. It is very complicated to design some things simple and at the same time good. May be Chris planes are not looking outstanding, especially 701, but they are works. As about custom engine mount, it is impossible to support every engine you can find. Merry Christmas and Happy new year! Alex -----Original Message----- From: Lowell Metz [mailto:lowellmetz@earthlink.net] Subject: Zenith-List: ZAC praise --> Zenith-List message posted by: Lowell Metz I have been following the " slam Chris and ZAC" thread for the last couple of days and have read "blasts " in the past. Although I rarely reply to any comments on list I felt compelled to add my 2 cents worth. ( And that isn't worth much today). I am a tool and die maker by trade, an automotive tooling engineer by profession, and a retired USN Aviation Structures Mechanic Chief ( retired ) and am building my forth plane ( CH 701 )as way of background for my perspective. The ZAC designs are the best utilization of material application in simplistic engineering form I have worked with. The ZAC support is timely and straight forward. ZAC is price competitive in their market. Time and again as I built my plane I wondered why something was designed the way it was until I really studied it and always found that there were three design criteria underlying it. Safety, strength, and ease of construction. We are building fun recreational aircraft hoping to save a few dollars with sweat equity. It takes some thinking and a little skill to harvest some of the rewards. I have met with, and sat in on many of Chris's lectures and hold the man in high regard. We have a designer that most kit companies only dream of. If Chris were to tip over and bump his head, numbers and formulas wound run out all over the place. Just check out the last two issues of Experimenter and explain to me what each formula means. I don't want to sound too cruel here but if you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen. Really, maybe another hobby would be better suited for some people, Lowell Metz CH 701 engine to go Do Not Archive ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 04:10:16 AM PST US From: "Jari Kaija" Subject: Zenith-List: Very good christmas for everyone! --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jari Kaija" Very good christmas and better new year for everyone! -Jari www.project-ch701.net ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 06:38:34 AM PST US From: "Paul Sharpe" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Rudder deflection --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Paul Sharpe" Dave, My rudder deflection is 24 degrees from center, both left and right. Regards, Paul Sharpe C-IABP CH601HD R912S ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dave Alberti" > > I'm interested in the actual numbers any current 601 builders have for the angular deflection on their finished planes. > > Dave ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 07:20:52 AM PST US From: "Bill Steer" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bill Steer" I received an email reply from Nick last Friday to a request I'd sent in on Wednesday. Don't know if they're open this week or not. BTW, I've *always* received excellent support from ZAC. There have been occasions, such as during the EAA convention, when it took a few days to get a reply, but they've always sent a meaningful reply. There was even one time when they called *me* after I had a question about some damage during shipment. I wouldn't hesitate to build another ZAC plane. Bill > > In defense of Zenair, > > > > They only claim to be a firewall back solution. > > Since someone else brought it up....does anyone know if ZAC has closed > down for the holidays? I've sent two requests for tech support that have > gone unanswered for over two weeks. I find that unusual based on previous > experiences. > > do not archive ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 08:12:15 AM PST US From: "Johann G." Subject: Zenith-List: Greeting from Iceland. --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Johann G." Hello everyone. I would like to wish you all a Merry Christmas and a Happy new flying year 2003. Hope you will all be healthy and eager to build and fly your planes in the new year. Thank you all for your support. Best wishes, Johann G. Iceland. Do not archive. ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 08:37:31 AM PST US From: "Randy L. Thwing" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Greeting from Iceland. --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Randy L. Thwing" ----- Original Message ----- From: Johann G. Subject: Zenith-List: Greeting from Iceland. > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Johann G." > > Hello everyone. > > I would like to wish you all a Merry Christmas and a Happy new flying year 2003. Hope you will all be healthy and eager to build and fly your planes in the new year. > Thank you all for your support. > > Best wishes, > > Johann G. > Iceland. > > Do not archive. > > ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 08:43:09 AM PST US From: Gary Liming Subject: Zenith-List: Sebastian Heintz & ZAC bashing --> Zenith-List message posted by: Gary Liming I spoke with Nick today, and he told me that although Sebastian had suffered a brain aneurysm, which can be very serious, his wasn't too severe and is back today, just taking it easy. As for ZAC criticism, I can empathize with both sides. I know how hard it is to do technical support well, especially to groups that have some members with strong personalities (egos) like doctors and pilots. (How would you like to be Nick day after day, given where their manuals and drawings used to be?) Living about 1 hour drive away, I've visited the plant many times, and they have always been as friendly and accommodating folks as you could ask for. They are also very busy every time I've been there, but not too busy to talk to me. On engine mounts, I had a problem with mine - the holes didn't match the pre-drilled holes on the firewall, and although the manual tells you to be very careful to keep those centered when you install the engine mount brackets, you really need to wait to install those brackets until you can line them up with the mount you have. When I reported the problem, they had Zenair in Canada make me one that matched my holes. To be sure, a guy from Zenair called me to verify the hole placement, and he was quite nice. The new one fit fine, and is a little better than the old one. On the other hand, it is very frustrating when things do go wrong in a project. There are many gaps in the manuals and drawings which could have made things better, but nothing that hasn't come out ok in the end. There have been times when I've questioned my choice, but heck, there have been times when I've questioned my sanity as well. It really helps to get plugged into some other builders for moral support during those times. You don't have to live in a super active homebuilding area, either. I am equally in contact with builders across town as well as Alaska, Wyoming, Wisconsin, etc thanks to this medium. (Thanks guys!) Like any business, ZAC has to strike a balance between making a certain level of profit, hiring enough staff to provide a certain level of support and quality, and having some competitive pricing. Would you go for price increases on your kits to cover a $60,000 plus benefits manual writer to be brought on board? Perhaps some of us would, but that probably cuts out some potential trying to keep down costs. Always tradeoffs. Anyway, I hope everyone on this list and at ZAC have a great holiday! Gary Liming 801 ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 01:23:39 PM PST US From: "Fred or Sandy Hulen" Subject: Zenith-List: Christmas and Holiday --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Fred or Sandy Hulen" "Merry Christmas!" and/or "Happy Holidays!" guys. May 2003 be a great year for all of you, filled with many happy hours of flight. Fred Hulen Jabiru 3300 "Zodie Rocket" HDS, N-601LX Waiting to do "first fright" (yep, spelled it correctly) when the right day off and good weather occurs at the same time. do not archive ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 02:26:19 PM PST US From: "Johann G." Subject: Zenith-List: To Randy Thwing --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Johann G." Sorry list members, but my friend Randy Thwing has been sending me mail, but I can not reply to his e-mail. E-mail Address: n4546v@mindspring.com Randy, do you have another e-mail address I could respond to? Sorry for that private mail, but this is the only way I know how to contact Randy. Do not archive. Best wishes, Johann G. ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 04:46:11 PM PST US From: "Chuck Deiterich" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Christmas and Holiday --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Chuck Deiterich" Fred, I had a problem starting my Jab 2200 when it was cold. Turns out the mag coils were gapped too much. Also, Pete Krotje has a cold weather starting procedure on his web site. It worked for me. Chuck D. N701TX Merry Christmas to all. > Waiting to do "first fright" (yep, spelled it correctly) when the right day > off and good weather occurs at the same time. > > > do not archive > > ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 08:36:03 PM PST US From: Jim and Lucy Subject: Zenith-List: Christmas airplane related story --> Zenith-List message posted by: Jim and Lucy This is a great story I heard it tonight on the radio. They play it every year on Xmas eve here. I found it on their website and thought I would share it with you guys that never heard it before. Its about a lost vampire pilot trying to get home to England on Xmas eve in late 1950's It is in real audio format and even my junky internet connection gets it ok. Jim Pollard Merlin Ont ch601hds ea81 http://cbc.ca/asithappens/audio/aih_7.ram do not archive ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 09:01:10 PM PST US From: Jim and Lucy Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Christmas airplane related story --> Zenith-List message posted by: Jim and Lucy At 11:34 PM 12/24/2002 -0500, you wrote: >--> Zenith-List message posted by: Jim and Lucy > >This is a great story I heard it tonight on the radio. > >They play it every year on Xmas eve here. > >I found it on their website and thought I would share >it with you guys that never heard it before. > >Its about a lost vampire pilot trying to get home to >England on Xmas eve in late 1950's > >It is in real audio format and even my junky internet >connection gets it ok. > >Jim Pollard >Merlin Ont >ch601hds >ea81 > > >http://cbc.ca/asithappens/audio/aih_7.ram > > >do not archive Sorry wrong link try this one http://www.cbc.ca/asithappens/real/pt1-01-12-24-aih1.ram starts about 2 min after the begining