---------------------------------------------------------- Zenith-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Fri 12/27/02: 7 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 06:16 AM - Re: Sebastian Heintz & ZAC bashing (Robert Rehmel) 2. 06:51 AM - ZAC bashing justified? (Fred or Sandy Hulen) 3. 07:47 AM - Re: ZAC bashing justified? (Ed Kramer) 4. 10:44 AM - stabilizer hinge vs edge distance (Carlos Sa) 5. 12:00 PM - Re: ZAC bashing justified? (AWilson62@aol.com) 6. 12:19 PM - Re: stabilizer hinge vs edge distance (Ed Kramer) 7. 07:21 PM - Re: stabilizer hinge vs edge distance (Michel Therrien) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 06:16:58 AM PST US From: "Robert Rehmel" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Sebastian Heintz & ZAC bashing --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Robert Rehmel" I had not heard about Sebastian being ill. Hope everything works out for him. As to difficulties with the ZAC drawings I must admit I have been frustrated with the manual layout. I am building a 601HDS from a kit. I usually find that if I stop and read further ahead and layout the pieces it all makes since. Also when I have had questions the factory has been very responsive to my questions. One other point join the EAA or your local equivalent. They are great source of information. I have progress regularly inspected by our local advisor. My father and I have been building for two years and are now into the forward fuselage. > [Original Message] > From: Gary Liming > To: > Date: 12/24/2002 11:42:50 AM > Subject: Zenith-List: Sebastian Heintz & ZAC bashing > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: Gary Liming > > > I spoke with Nick today, and he told me that although Sebastian had > suffered a brain aneurysm, which can be very serious, his wasn't too severe > and is back today, just taking it easy. > > As for ZAC criticism, I can empathize with both sides. I know how hard it > is to do technical support well, especially to groups that have some > members with strong personalities (egos) like doctors and pilots. (How > would you like to be Nick day after day, given where their manuals and > drawings used to be?) Living about 1 hour drive away, I've visited the > plant many times, and they have always been as friendly and accommodating > folks as you could ask for. They are also very busy every time I've been > there, but not too busy to talk to me. > > On engine mounts, I had a problem with mine - the holes didn't match the > pre-drilled holes on the firewall, and although the manual tells you to be > very careful to keep those centered when you install the engine mount > brackets, you really need to wait to install those brackets until you can > line them up with the mount you have. When I reported the problem, they > had Zenair in Canada make me one that matched my holes. To be sure, a guy > from Zenair called me to verify the hole placement, and he was quite > nice. The new one fit fine, and is a little better than the old one. > > On the other hand, it is very frustrating when things do go wrong in a > project. There are many gaps in the manuals and drawings which could have > made things better, but nothing that hasn't come out ok in the end. There > have been times when I've questioned my choice, but heck, there have been > times when I've questioned my sanity as well. It really helps to get > plugged into some other builders for moral support during those times. You > don't have to live in a super active homebuilding area, either. I am > equally in contact with builders across town as well as Alaska, Wyoming, > Wisconsin, etc thanks to this medium. (Thanks guys!) > > Like any business, ZAC has to strike a balance between making a certain > level of profit, hiring enough staff to provide a certain level of support > and quality, and having some competitive pricing. Would you go for price > increases on your kits to cover a $60,000 plus benefits manual writer to be > brought on board? Perhaps some of us would, but that probably cuts out > some potential trying to keep down costs. Always tradeoffs. > > Anyway, I hope everyone on this list and at ZAC have a great holiday! > > Gary Liming > 801 > > > > > --- Robert Rehmel --- traveler601@earthlink.net ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 06:51:40 AM PST US From: "Fred or Sandy Hulen" Subject: Zenith-List: ZAC bashing justified? --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Fred or Sandy Hulen" Regarding the many posting about having problems with plans, and other things that we reference in order to build a Zenith kit, I submit the following report about a builder friend of mine: When I first got started and built the rudder for my 601 HDS, I heard about a local man that had his 601 HD far enough along that the fuse was up on it's wheels and the wings and tail feathers all done. I contacted him and went to see his project. I was blown away by what I discovered. Guys, here's a 74 year old man by the name of Ray Huffman that built his 601 HD from SCRATCH ! He had only the original plans and the first manual..... the one with only a few hand drawn pictures in it, and a few black and white shots in the back pages. He has never had a computer to receive support from a builder list such as ours. Didn't have any of the newer step by step procedures and assembly manuals with the exploded views, etc. He had never visited another builder's project to exchange ideas (none were found in his area), but being less than 3 hours drive from ZAC, he had driven down there 2 or 3 times over the period of building to take pictures of their demo plane and clarify a few things. It had taken him about 4 years to get as far as it was when I first saw it. As Ray said, "First I had to make the kit" (since he scratch built), "Then,.. I could finally build the airplane". I submit this true story in hopes that it will encourage some of you that might feel that your support or plans aren't as good as they maybe could be. Compared to Ray, we now have support that won't quit from ZAC, other builders, web sites, and wonderful new assembly documents. "Go forth and Pop Rivets!!" Regards to all Fred Hulen ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 07:47:46 AM PST US From: "Ed Kramer" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: ZAC bashing justified? --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Ed Kramer" List, I would just like to add my 2-cents worth. Tech support has never let me down. Compare Zenith plans, the website & the great tech support by phone or email to others and you'll see they're above average. Ed Kramer West Seneca, NY CH 701 edkramer@prodigy.net ----- Original Message ----- From: "Fred or Sandy Hulen" Subject: Zenith-List: ZAC bashing justified? > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Fred or Sandy Hulen" ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 10:44:30 AM PST US From: Carlos Sa Subject: Zenith-List: stabilizer hinge vs edge distance --> Zenith-List message posted by: Carlos Sa Hello, all I'm assembling the stabilizer (CH601), and ha a "phylosophical" question. We know that the distance from the centre of a rivet hole to the edge of a part is at least 3*hole diameter. In the case of A4, we have diameter = 3.2 mm, thence distance = 9.6 mm For the stabilizer / elevator hinge, the plans call for AN257-4. ASS catalog (page 72) says MS20257P supercedes AN257. So I ordered MS20257P-4 (open width 1.5") At the narrow points, the (half) hinge is only 15 mm wide. If I drill a rivet hole at the centre, I have 7.5 mm to the edge on each side, < 9.6 mm. What gives?? Looks like I have the wrong hinge... ? (Note to Larry McFarland: in your web site, stabilizer pictures on third row, second and third column have broken links) Thanks in advance for your comments Carlos CH601 HD, plans Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 12:00:18 PM PST US From: AWilson62@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: ZAC bashing justified? --> Zenith-List message posted by: AWilson62@aol.com I agree as I built a 701 from Scratch. It took me 8 years. The plans were great, everything was there if you look hard enough. Quit griping, don't wait for someone to do it for you. If you don't understand read it again, and again, and again. Then if you still don't get it call Zenith. I did. They always answered my questions. Maybe it was my approach. ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 12:19:24 PM PST US From: "Ed Kramer" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: stabilizer hinge vs edge distance --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Ed Kramer" Carlos, The absolute minimum edge distance is 2-D, reference AC 43-13. Ed Kramer West Seneca, NY CH 701 edkramer@prodigy.net ----- Original Message ----- From: "Carlos Sa" Subject: Zenith-List: stabilizer hinge vs edge distance > --> Zenith-List message posted by: Carlos Sa > > Hello, all > > I'm assembling the stabilizer (CH601), and ha a "phylosophical" question. > We know that the distance from the centre of a rivet hole to the edge of a part is > at least 3*hole diameter. > In the case of A4, we have diameter = 3.2 mm, thence distance = 9.6 mm > > For the stabilizer / elevator hinge, the plans call for AN257-4. > ASS catalog (page 72) says MS20257P supercedes AN257. So I ordered MS20257P-4 (open > width 1.5") > > At the narrow points, the (half) hinge is only 15 mm wide. If I drill a rivet hole > at the centre, I have 7.5 mm to the edge on each side, < 9.6 mm. > What gives?? Looks like I have the wrong hinge... ? > > (Note to Larry McFarland: in your web site, stabilizer pictures on third row, second > and third column have broken links) > > Thanks in advance for your comments > > Carlos > CH601 HD, plans > > Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca > > ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 07:21:25 PM PST US From: Michel Therrien Subject: Re: Zenith-List: stabilizer hinge vs edge distance --> Zenith-List message posted by: Michel Therrien AC43-13, Par 4-57 4-c-1 (page 4-19) specifies minimum edge distance = 2D and minimum rivet spacing = 3D. This being said, I understand that the hinge is adequate. Isn't there a note in the construction manual saying that minimum edge distance is 2D? Michel --- Carlos Sa wrote: > --> Zenith-List message posted by: Carlos Sa > > > Hello, all > > I'm assembling the stabilizer (CH601), and ha a > "phylosophical" question. > We know that the distance from the centre of a rivet > hole to the edge of a part is > at least 3*hole diameter. > In the case of A4, we have diameter = 3.2 mm, thence > distance = 9.6 mm > > For the stabilizer / elevator hinge, the plans call > for AN257-4. > ASS catalog (page 72) says MS20257P supercedes > AN257. So I ordered MS20257P-4 (open > width 1.5") > > At the narrow points, the (half) hinge is only 15 mm > wide. If I drill a rivet hole > at the centre, I have 7.5 mm to the edge on each > side, < 9.6 mm. > What gives?? Looks like I have the wrong hinge... ? > > (Note to Larry McFarland: in your web site, > stabilizer pictures on third row, second > and third column have broken links) > > Thanks in advance for your comments > > Carlos > CH601 HD, plans > > Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca > > > > Click on the > this > generous > _-> > Contributions > any other > Forums. > > latest messages. > List members. > > http://www.matronics.com/subscription > http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Zenith-List.htm > Digests:http://www.matronics.com/digest/zenith-list > http://www.matronics.com/archives > http://www.matronics.com/photoshare > http://www.matronics.com/emaillists > > > > > ===== ---------------------------- Michel Therrien CH601-HD http://mthobby.pcperfect.com/ch601 http://www.zenithair.com/bldrlist/profiles/mthobby http://pages.infinit.net/mthobby