Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 03:05 AM - XL bld time (dave)
2. 05:35 AM - Re: ASI accuracy (Grant Corriveau)
3. 05:42 AM - Re: ASI accuracy (Grant Corriveau)
4. 08:30 AM - Re: ASI accuracy (Richard McLachlan)
5. 08:56 AM - Re: Introduction (nhulin)
6. 09:11 AM - Re: ASI accuracy (Leo J. Corbalis)
7. 09:23 AM - Re: Grrr... those ?#%! Sharpie markers (Leo J. Corbalis)
8. 09:51 AM - Re: Introduction (Bill Cardell)
9. 10:12 AM - Re: Introduction (STEFREE@aol.com)
10. 11:18 AM - Re: Introduction (Philip Polstra)
11. 12:29 PM - Re: Grrr... those ?#%! Sharpie markers (Michel Therrien)
12. 01:34 PM - Re: Introduction (Chuck Deiterich)
13. 01:39 PM - Re: Grrr... those ?#%! Sharpie markers (Alex MacKay)
14. 02:12 PM - Re: Grrr... those ?#%! Sharpie markers (Elwood140@aol.com)
15. 03:25 PM - Re: Introduction (Bill Cardell)
16. 04:24 PM - Sharpies (John Thompson)
17. 05:17 PM - Re: Grrr... those ?#%! Sharpie markers (L.D. Pahnke)
Message 1
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "dave" <dave@netbase.net>
Xl first time bldr
0235-Lyc
550-600 hrs Inc paint
Ready to fly weather permiting
dave@netbase.net
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: ASI accuracy |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Grant Corriveau <grantC@ca.inter.net>
on 02/12/29 05:36, Richard McLachlan at richard@foxfield.demon.co.uk wrote:
> The previous owner says that this is the cause of the
> problem, as the pressure in the cabin is significantly lower at speed, but I
> am
> not sure this is correct. As I am coming to the CH601 with a totally Cessna
... Due to the shape of the canopy, fuselage sides, etc.,, the localized
pressure inside the cockpit is obviously lower than ambient pressure,
resulting in an increased pressure differential between static and pitot --
so artificially fast readings on the gauge. This has been mentioned before
on the list (archives) and I imagine most builders now use an external
static source for more accurate readings.
A GPS showing groundspeed could be a good safety device until you've
re-calibrated the system. Assuming you have some idea of the prevailing
wind, you will know what to expect from the groundspeed readout crossing the
threshold.
--
Grant Corriveau
Montreal
Zodiac 601hds/CAM100
C-GHTF
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: ASI accuracy |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Grant Corriveau <grantC@ca.inter.net>
on 02/12/29 11:43, Ed at orion@silcom.com wrote:
...
> I have read reports of people having their shirt sleeve "sucked" out the
> canopy joint and have had the same experience myself. This would tend to
> indicate a lower pressure outside the canopy would it not?
I know the effect your refer to. I suppose this is the source of the low
pressure that affects the entire cockpit area and makes for erroneous static
source readings.
--
Grant Corriveau
Montreal
Zodiac 601hds/CAM100
C-GHTF
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: ASI accuracy |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Richard McLachlan <richard@foxfield.demon.co.uk>
In article <200212301334.gBUDYIt13271@matronics.com>, Grant
Corriveau <grantC@ca.inter.net> writes
>
>... Due to the shape of the canopy, fuselage sides, etc.,, the localized
>pressure inside the cockpit is obviously lower than ambient pressure,
>resulting in an increased pressure differential between static and pitot --
>so artificially fast readings on the gauge. This has been mentioned before
>on the list (archives) and I imagine most builders now use an external
>static source for more accurate readings.
>
>A GPS showing groundspeed could be a good safety device until you've
>re-calibrated the system. Assuming you have some idea of the prevailing
>wind, you will know what to expect from the groundspeed readout crossing the
>threshold.
Thanks everybody for your useful comments. I will have a look at the list
archive. When the weather gets flyable again I will do some calibration runs in
each direction against the GPS to measure the error before I make any
changes.
--
Richard McLachlan
C172XP/CH601HDS/R22 G3OQT
Landing Site info at http://www.foxfield.demon.co.uk
Message 5
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "nhulin" <nhulin@hotmail.com>
Hi Bill.
Time is an illusion, aircraft building time doubly so.(with apologies to
Douglas Adams for the misquote)
I've heard of a builder who completed his in 17 weeks elapsed time working
5hours/5days during the week and two 10 hour days on weekends. That adds up
to 765 hours. I decided at the outset not to log actual hours on
construction since I thought that I'd get discouraged when trying to measure
how much time I had to go. I'd rather enjoy the process and not watch the
clock.
I think an experienced builder with a fully kitted workshop could achieve
the numbers advertised but the average builder isn't going to be close. How
do you account for time getting the correct fittings for your air
compressor, cleaning the workshop (an essential activity - I can't stand
working in a mess), reading the manual for the 15th time, following all the
valuable information on this list, writing Zenith with questions, messing up
a hinge and having to order a new one, working out exactly how you are going
to get a rivet "there", remembering how you installed it on the other wing
now that it is closed out and you can't see what you did, browsing the
Internet comparing options on the latest (insert your favourite aviation toy
here)? ...you get the idea.
I find that if I work every day I loose less time getting back up to speed
than if I only go into the workshop once a week. Other times you will be in
"dither mode" when you actually avoid working on the aircraft for fear that
you'll screw something up. I heard from a few builders that go through this
and it seems to be an affliction that effect some more than others.
All in all the building process is an excellent experience. Don't overlook
the enjoyment of this phase. I know everyone wants to have a flying aircraft
but getting there is the start of a long relationship with your aircraft,
one built by your own hands. You'll savour the satisfaction every time you
fly.
Also, let me introduce myself. I'm a new contributor to this list although I
have been following it for a few years on and off. I'm building a 601XL.
Have rudder, elevator, stabilizer, ailerons, and flaps completed. I'm just
about to reconfigure my 4' x 8' worktable to 4' x 12' on a rolled steel
adjustable frame and then start the wings. I'm very fortunate to have
another 601XL builder locally who is just always a few weeks ahead of me. I
learn a lot that way and avoid many mistakes simply by being able to call up
and ask first before I make that cut.
...neil
Neil Hulin
Cincinnati, Ohio
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: ASI accuracy |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Leo J. Corbalis" <l.corbalis@worldnet.att.net>
Find your own comfortable IAS by testing. The short fat wings of the HDS
WILL develop a high sink rate without any stall buffet at low IAS. Be
careful as you test out the minimum desired IAS. You have to arrive with
enough IAS to stop the sink rate. DON'T ASK!
Leo Corbalis
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Grrr... those ?#%! Sharpie markers |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Leo J. Corbalis" <l.corbalis@worldnet.att.net>
I had the same problem. Try wiping the aluminum with acetone or another non
oily solvent before drawing on it. It usually worked for me
Leo Corbalis
do not archive
Message 8
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: Bill Cardell <bill@flyinmiata.com>
Thanks for the feedback, guys! Next newbie question, how do the inspections
work? IOW, if I pick up somebody else's partially built kit or scratch
built, what is involved with FAA stuff?
PS If there is a better place to be asking these questions, let me know. I
know it can get tiresome answering the same old stuff as new people come in.
Bill Cardell (TurboDog's Dad)
bill@flyinmiata.com
Flyin' Miata
1-800-359-6957 (sales only)
970-242-3800 (tech support)
http://flyinmiata.com
-----Original Message-----
From: nhulin [mailto:nhulin@hotmail.com]
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Introduction
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "nhulin" <nhulin@hotmail.com>
Hi Bill.
Time is an illusion, aircraft building time doubly so.(with apologies to
Douglas Adams for the misquote)
I've heard of a builder who completed his in 17 weeks elapsed time working
5hours/5days during the week and two 10 hour days on weekends. That adds up
to 765 hours. I decided at the outset not to log actual hours on
construction since I thought that I'd get discouraged when trying to measure
how much time I had to go. I'd rather enjoy the process and not watch the
clock.
I think an experienced builder with a fully kitted workshop could achieve
the numbers advertised but the average builder isn't going to be close. How
do you account for time getting the correct fittings for your air
compressor, cleaning the workshop (an essential activity - I can't stand
working in a mess), reading the manual for the 15th time, following all the
valuable information on this list, writing Zenith with questions, messing up
a hinge and having to order a new one, working out exactly how you are going
to get a rivet "there", remembering how you installed it on the other wing
now that it is closed out and you can't see what you did, browsing the
Internet comparing options on the latest (insert your favourite aviation toy
here)? ...you get the idea.
I find that if I work every day I loose less time getting back up to speed
than if I only go into the workshop once a week. Other times you will be in
"dither mode" when you actually avoid working on the aircraft for fear that
you'll screw something up. I heard from a few builders that go through this
and it seems to be an affliction that effect some more than others.
All in all the building process is an excellent experience. Don't overlook
the enjoyment of this phase. I know everyone wants to have a flying aircraft
but getting there is the start of a long relationship with your aircraft,
one built by your own hands. You'll savour the satisfaction every time you
fly.
Also, let me introduce myself. I'm a new contributor to this list although I
have been following it for a few years on and off. I'm building a 601XL.
Have rudder, elevator, stabilizer, ailerons, and flaps completed. I'm just
about to reconfigure my 4' x 8' worktable to 4' x 12' on a rolled steel
adjustable frame and then start the wings. I'm very fortunate to have
another 601XL builder locally who is just always a few weeks ahead of me. I
learn a lot that way and avoid many mistakes simply by being able to call up
and ask first before I make that cut.
...neil
Neil Hulin
Cincinnati, Ohio
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Introduction |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: STEFREE@aol.com
In a message dated 12/30/02 10:51:46 AM US Mountain Standard Time,
bill@flyinmiata.com writes:
> I know it can get tiresome answering the same old stuff as new people come
> in
Never worry about asking, we have all been there, and done that. However,
many questions that have seen the same thread over and over again are in the
archives of this list and can be an invaluable tool!
Good luck, happy building and enjoy the process. I have for almost 5 years!
Steve (almost done) Freeman
Do not archive
Message 10
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Philip Polstra" <ppolstra@mindspring.com>
>Thanks for the feedback, guys! Next newbie question, how do the
inspections
>work? IOW, if I pick up somebody else's partially built kit or scratch
>built, what is involved with FAA stuff?
No matter if you built it all yourself or not, you need to find a DAR who
will do the final inspection (of your paperwork mostly), charge you a few
hundred dollars and then give you an airworthiness certificate. The only
time it matters how much you build is if you want to get a repairman
certficate to do the anuals. If you don't have one of these any A&P can do
the anual for you. Anyone can do work on your plane.
---
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Grrr... those ?#%! Sharpie markers |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Michel Therrien <mtherr@yahoo.com>
Thanks all for the responses. I tried the 720 degree
rotation advise (and yes I'm Canadian :-) this morning
and it worked with my three tried markers. I'm sure
the lacquer thinner advise will work too.
Happy upcoming year!
Michel
--- "Randy L. Thwing" <n4546v@mindspring.com> wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Randy L. Thwing"
> <n4546v@mindspring.com>
>
> The ink seems to "harden" on the tiny flexible tip.
> Lay the pen against the
> metal at about a 30 degree angle, push slightly to
> bend (not break) the tiny
> flexible tip and rotate the pen barrel 720 degrees
> (that's two revolutions
> for you Canadians) while holding the tip in a
> slightly "flexed" position.
> This seems to "crack" the hardened ink on the tip
> and allows fresh stuff to
> start flowing. Keeping the cap on tight has never
> helped, they "harden"
> every time. I can't accomplish much building
> airplanes, but free advice is
> never in short supply.
>
> Randy L. Thwing, Las Vegas
>
=====
----------------------------
Michel Therrien CH601-HD
http://mthobby.pcperfect.com/ch601
http://www.zenithair.com/bldrlist/profiles/mthobby
http://pages.infinit.net/mthobby
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Introduction |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Chuck Deiterich" <cfd@thegateway.net>
Bill,
Go to http://web-vertisers.com/eaa889/Projdoc.txt to see how to pick up
after
another builder.
Chuck D.
N701TX
----- Original Message -----
From: Bill Cardell <bill@flyinmiata.com>
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Introduction
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Bill Cardell <bill@flyinmiata.com>
>
> Thanks for the feedback, guys! Next newbie question, how do the
inspections
> work? IOW, if I pick up somebody else's partially built kit or scratch
> built, what is involved with FAA stuff?
> PS If there is a better place to be asking these questions, let me know. I
> know it can get tiresome answering the same old stuff as new people come
in.
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Grrr... those ?#%! Sharpie markers |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Alex MacKay <mackay@physics.ubc.ca>
Hi Michel
Here is one more technique for restarting Sharpie markers: When
they stop writing on Aluminum, I scribble and (rotate) the pen on my
workbench (wood or 'ranger' board). This always starts them again and my
marker pens last a long time.
Happy new year
Alex MacKay (601HDS, still on airframe)
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Grrr... those ?#%! Sharpie markers |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Elwood140@aol.com
Hi, All.
It seems to me that if balky Sharpies are a primary subject for those who
would grouse, then everything else must be just fine!
Larry Wood
Message 15
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: Bill Cardell <bill@flyinmiata.com>
Thanks, Chuck, exactly what I was looking for.
Bill Cardell (TurboDog's Dad)
bill@flyinmiata.com
Flyin' Miata
1-800-359-6957 (sales only)
970-242-3800 (tech support)
http://flyinmiata.com
-----Original Message-----
From: Chuck Deiterich [mailto:cfd@thegateway.net]
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Introduction
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Chuck Deiterich" <cfd@thegateway.net>
Bill,
Go to http://web-vertisers.com/eaa889/Projdoc.txt to see how to pick up
after
another builder.
Chuck D.
N701TX
----- Original Message -----
From: Bill Cardell <bill@flyinmiata.com>
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Introduction
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Bill Cardell <bill@flyinmiata.com>
>
> Thanks for the feedback, guys! Next newbie question, how do the
inspections
> work? IOW, if I pick up somebody else's partially built kit or scratch
> built, what is involved with FAA stuff?
> PS If there is a better place to be asking these questions, let me know. I
> know it can get tiresome answering the same old stuff as new people come
in.
Message 16
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: John Thompson <rcav8r@chorus.net>
We use sharpies all the time for marking on aluminum molds.
first, be sure the surface is clean...no dust, grease, etc. These things
can really put a "coating" on the marker.
Second, have a piece of scrap paper nearby, and if your sharpie doesn't
work, try scribbling on the paper with a rolling motion to get it going
again.
Third, use fine point, not ultra fine. They'll last a whole lot longer.
You can try the tip in hot water to get it going again.
Denatured alcohol will usually remove marker lines.
John
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Grrr... those ?#%! Sharpie markers |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "L.D. Pahnke" <ldpahnke@netwitz.net>
Another trick is to put a drop of water or alcohol in the cap before
recapping. When opening the pen, swab off the droplet and it is ready to go.
LDP
---
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