Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:28 AM - Re: Panel (Lowell Metz)
2. 12:55 PM - Re: Panel (RUSSELL JOHNSON)
3. 07:59 PM - 601 XL Rudder Tip Bent Strip (6T5-5) Question ()
4. 08:08 PM - Zodie Rocket web page updated (Fred or Sandy Hulen)
5. 08:54 PM - Re: 601 XL Rudder Tip Bent Strip (6T5-5) Question (James J. Cullen, Ph.D.)
6. 10:01 PM - 601 XL Rudder Tip Bent Strip (6T5-5) Question (Larry Portouw)
7. 10:06 PM - Re: Zodie Rocket web page updated (ac6qj@earthlink.net)
Message 1
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Lowell Metz <lowellmetz@earthlink.net>
>FWIW on plastic molded panels. Thermo plastics such as polycarbonate and
>polypropolyne have drawbacks in that one is prone to UV deteriation and
>the other is prone to warping at tempratures experienced in cabins. Thermo
>setting plastics become rather brittle and will crack with the viberations
>experienced in the plane. Both of these materials require and injection
>mold and a huge injection molding press. A press for polycarbonate
>requires 4 tons per square inch of molding surface to inject the plastic
>at 580 degrees F. Epoxy resins probably would , IMHO, be a better
>material for this application. Start with a plaster or clay male mock-up,
>pour a female mold and then lay up your one-off U/P from the female to get
>the best surface finish. I see a lot of potential for making more panels
>from a good mold but also see the loss of individuality in lay-out
>possibilities with a molded panel. By the time reinforcements are added
>to support some of the heavier instruments ( gyros and, radios, and TPX's
>) you may end up with a pretty heavy chunk of plastic. For the rich and
>exotic, a carbon fiber panel would give the flexability of a contoured
>panel and the strength to weight ratio desirable in a light " inexpensive"
>sport plane. Best of luck on plastic I/P's . I retired from that industry
>two years ago and enjoyed building a shock mounted aluminum panel.
Lowell Metz 701
Do Not Archive
>Check out the above, it is a molded panel.
>
>Russell J.
>do not archive
>
>
Message 2
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "RUSSELL JOHNSON" <entec1@pld.com>
> >FWIW on plastic molded panels. Thermo plastics such as polycarbonate and
> >polypropolyne have drawbacks in that one is prone to UV deteriation and
> >the other is prone to warping at tempratures experienced in cabins.
Thermo
> >setting plastics become rather brittle and will crack with the
viberations
> >experienced in the plane. Both of these materials require and injection
> >mold and a huge injection molding press. A press for polycarbonate
> >requires 4 tons per square inch of molding surface to inject the plastic
> >at 580 degrees F. Epoxy resins probably would , IMHO, be a better
> >material for this application. Start with a plaster or clay male
mock-up,
> >pour a female mold and then lay up your one-off U/P from the female to
get
> >the best surface finish. I see a lot of potential for making more panels
> >from a good mold but also see the loss of individuality in lay-out
> >possibilities with a molded panel. By the time reinforcements are added
> >to support some of the heavier instruments ( gyros and, radios, and TPX's
> >) you may end up with a pretty heavy chunk of plastic. For the rich and
> >exotic, a carbon fiber panel would give the flexability of a contoured
> >panel and the strength to weight ratio desirable in a light "
inexpensive"
> >sport plane. Best of luck on plastic I/P's . I retired from that
industry
> >two years ago and enjoyed building a shock mounted aluminum panel.
>
> Lowell Metz 701
> Do Not Archive
++++
You are right, the least expensive way and "heaviest" way to build a molded
panel would be FRP.
My partner and I design FRP vessels, and if you want strength (except for
the exotics like kevlar, carbon fiber, etc.), your talking weight!
Russell J. / 601-HDS
do not archive
Message 3
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | 601 XL Rudder Tip Bent Strip (6T5-5) Question |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: <zenith@portouw.com>
Greetings,
Im ready to drill the holes through the bent strip into the spar to
attach the tip rib to the top of the spar. Both plans and the instruction
manual call for 4xA4 rivets. If I am to maintain a 10mm edge distance both
from the top edge of the spar and all edges of the bent strip AND maintain
the correct over-all distance from the bottom of the spar to the top of the
tip rib, I am left with a suitable rivet area of 4.5mm x 11.5 mm! So, in
order to get 4 rivets into the bent strip, I will need to violate the min
10mm edge distance someplace. I can only shorten the overall height of the
rudder by 1mm and not violate the spar outside the tip rib flange
guidance. Yes, the long dimension of the bent strip is on the spar. Another
solution seems to be to scrap the bent strip supplied with the kit and make
a longer one.
So, it seems that since the rudder spar is thicker than the bent strip, I
should crowd the edge distance on the top of the spar?
How much can I eat into the 10mm with out serious risk? How have others
solved this one or am I missing something obvious?
Larry Portouw
bin-lurking
Ft. Huacuca, AZ
Message 4
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Zodie Rocket web page updated |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Fred or Sandy Hulen" <hulens61@birch.net>
After being heckled lately about the fact that since it's now been flown that I
needed to update my Zenith Builder's Web Page,.... I did so. It now shows a
finished aircraft view, a cockpit view, and a shot taken during take-off on it's
first flight.
Fred Hulen
N601LX Jabiru 3300 601 HDS
do not archive
Message 5
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: 601 XL Rudder Tip Bent Strip (6T5-5) Question |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "James J. Cullen, Ph.D." <flyingcrownranch@lvcm.com>
Hi Larry:
You're not missing anything. I observed the same problem.
I'm building a 601XL and am only about 2 weeks ahead of you in the
construction sequence. Today, I drilled the elevator skin.
With regards to your question, I scrapped the bent strip that ZAC sent me
and made my own. Remember that the 10mm edge distance is a desirable target
but it is not an absolute.
As you progress through the aircraft, you'll find plenty of places where ZAC
gives you an 8mm edge distance instead of 10. For example, take a look at
the rivet pattern for the 6 elevator ribs. The two outboard ribs have rivet
lines that are only 8 mm inboard from the edge of the elevator skin. The
absolute is 2X the rivet diameter, which works out to about 6.5mm.
Given that (and the problem that we have identified), I chose to make my own
bent strip and accepted a bit less than 10mm for the rivet spacing.
In any event, structurally, in this location, it's not all that critical.
The tip rib will be held in place just fine by the rivets that go through
the rudder skin into the tip rib. Note that these rivets are set at a 40mm
pitch -- not for strength but just to keep the shape of the skin from
developing a wavy appearance. If the pitch were based on structural
requirements, a much larger pitch would be acceptable.
Hope this helps.
Jim Cullen
Las Vegas, NV
----- Original Message -----
From: <zenith@portouw.com>
Subject: Zenith-List: 601 XL Rudder Tip Bent Strip (6T5-5) Question
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: <zenith@portouw.com>
>
> Greetings,
> Im ready to drill the holes through the bent strip into the spar to
> attach the tip rib to the top of the spar. Both plans and the instruction
> manual call for 4xA4 rivets. If I am to maintain a 10mm edge distance
both
> from the top edge of the spar and all edges of the bent strip AND maintain
> the correct over-all distance from the bottom of the spar to the top of
the
> tip rib, I am left with a suitable rivet area of 4.5mm x 11.5 mm! So, in
> order to get 4 rivets into the bent strip, I will need to violate the min
> 10mm edge distance someplace. I can only shorten the overall height of
the
> rudder by 1mm and not violate the spar outside the tip rib flange
> guidance. Yes, the long dimension of the bent strip is on the spar.
Another
> solution seems to be to scrap the bent strip supplied with the kit and
make
> a longer one.
> So, it seems that since the rudder spar is thicker than the bent strip,
I
> should crowd the edge distance on the top of the spar?
> How much can I eat into the 10mm with out serious risk? How have others
> solved this one or am I missing something obvious?
>
> Larry Portouw
> bin-lurking
> Ft. Huacuca, AZ
>
>
Message 6
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | 601 XL Rudder Tip Bent Strip (6T5-5) Question |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Larry Portouw" <Larry@portouw.com>
Jim,
Thanks. I think thats the route Ill take- building a new part. I looked
on the plans- the strip supplied by Zenith is 1cm shorter in each dimension
than called for on the plan. If it was 1cm longer, all would work just
fine.
Larry Portouw
Fort Huachuca, AZ
----------
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "James J. Cullen, Ph.D."
<flyingcrownranch@lvcm.com>
Hi Larry:
You're not missing anything. I observed the same problem.
I'm building a 601XL and am only about 2 weeks ahead of you in the
construction sequence. Today, I drilled the elevator skin.
With regards to your question, I scrapped the bent strip that ZAC sent me
and made my own. Remember that the 10mm edge distance is a desirable target
but it is not an absolute.
As you progress through the aircraft, you'll find plenty of places where ZAC
gives you an 8mm edge distance instead of 10. For example, take a look at
the rivet pattern for the 6 elevator ribs. The two outboard ribs have rivet
lines that are only 8 mm inboard from the edge of the elevator skin. The
absolute is 2X the rivet diameter, which works out to about 6.5mm.
Given that (and the problem that we have identified), I chose to make my own
bent strip and accepted a bit less than 10mm for the rivet spacing.
In any event, structurally, in this location, it's not all that critical.
The tip rib will be held in place just fine by the rivets that go through
the rudder skin into the tip rib. Note that these rivets are set at a 40mm
pitch -- not for strength but just to keep the shape of the skin from
developing a wavy appearance. If the pitch were based on structural
requirements, a much larger pitch would be acceptable.
Hope this helps.
Jim Cullen
Las Vegas, NV
----- Original Message -----
From: <zenith@portouw.com>
Subject: 601 XL Rudder Tip Bent Strip (6T5-5) Question
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: <zenith@portouw.com>
>
> Greetings,
> I'm ready to drill the holes through the bent strip into the spar to
> attach the tip rib to the top of the spar. Both plans and the instruction
> manual call for 4xA4 rivets. If I am to maintain a 10mm edge distance
both
> from the top edge of the spar and all edges of the bent strip AND maintain
> the correct over-all distance from the bottom of the spar to the top of
the
> tip rib, I am left with a suitable rivet area of 4.5mm x 11.5 mm! So, in
> order to get 4 rivets into the bent strip, I will need to violate the min
> 10mm edge distance someplace. I can only shorten the overall height of
the
> rudder by 1mm and not violate the spar outside the tip rib flange
> guidance. Yes, the long dimension of the bent strip is on the spar.
Another
> solution seems to be to scrap the bent strip supplied with the kit and
make
> a longer one.
> So, it seems that since the rudder spar is thicker than the bent strip,
I
> should crowd the edge distance on the top of the spar?
> How much can I eat into the 10mm with out serious risk? How have others
> solved this one or am I missing something obvious?
>
> Larry Portouw
> bin-lurking
> Ft. Huachuca, AZ
>
Message 7
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Zodie Rocket web page updated |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: ac6qj@earthlink.net
>--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Fred or Sandy Hulen" <hulens61@birch.net>
>
>After being heckled lately about the fact that since it's now been
>flown that I needed to update my Zenith Builder's Web Page,.... I
>did so. It now shows a finished aircraft view, a cockpit view, and
>a shot taken during take-off on it's first flight.
>
>Fred Hulen
>N601LX Jabiru 3300 601 HDS
>
>
Nice job!!!! Did you fabricate the center panel that is below the
standard zac panel?
DO NOT ARCHIVE
--
Best regards, Ray Montagne
Cupertino, CA
Other Matronics Email List Services
These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.
-- Please support this service by making your Contribution today! --
|