Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:22 AM - Re: Panel (Phil & Michele Miller)
2. 03:59 AM - Re: Zodie Rocket web page updated (Fred or Sandy Hulen)
3. 05:29 AM - Re: 601 XL Rudder Tip Bent Strip (6T5-5) Question (PerryChappano)
4. 06:13 AM - 601 Canopies....an alternative source (Pete Ferguson)
5. 08:29 AM - Dumb question about Fred's plane (Bill Cardell)
6. 08:54 AM - Re: Dumb question about Fred's plane (Steve Danielson)
7. 10:00 AM - Removing Stainless Steel Rivets (Thomas Hoffmann)
8. 10:46 AM - Re: Removing Stainless Steel Rivets (ZSMITH3rd@aol.com)
9. 10:52 AM - Re: Zodie Rocket web page updated (Rick)
10. 10:54 AM - Re: Dumb question about Fred's plane (Bill Cardell)
11. 10:58 AM - Re: Removing Stainless Steel Rivets (Jim Frisby)
12. 01:08 PM - web page (alex trent)
13. 01:31 PM - Re: web page (Fred or Sandy Hulen)
14. 01:54 PM - Web site malfunction (Fred or Sandy Hulen)
15. 03:57 PM - Brake Bleeding Question (STEFREE@aol.com)
16. 04:53 PM - Re: Brake Bleeding Question (Larry C. McFarland)
17. 05:44 PM - Re: Removing Stainless Steel Rivets (IslPilot@aol.com)
18. 06:13 PM - Re: Brake Bleeding Question (STEFREE@aol.com)
19. 06:37 PM - Jabiru installation (Chuck Deiterich)
20. 06:41 PM - Re: Brake Bleeding Question (Chesterman Family)
21. 07:36 PM - Bleeding brakes (George Swinford)
22. 11:14 PM - Re: Brake Bleeding Question (Phil & Michele Miller)
Message 1
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Phil & Michele Miller" <millerpg@ps.gen.nz>
As nice as it might be to have a molded FRP panel, there is one major
safety consideration. We go to some lengths in building our aircraft to
ensure that we use fire-resistant materials (or we should do). The fumes
from burning fibreglass in a confined space are not conducive to a long
and healthy life even if you do manage to get out after inhaling them
for a while. Worth considering, I think.
Cheers,
Phil Miller
CH701 (72 hours TT)
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of RUSSELL
JOHNSON
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Panel
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "RUSSELL JOHNSON" <entec1@pld.com>
> >FWIW on plastic molded panels. Thermo plastics such as polycarbonate
> >and polypropolyne have drawbacks in that one is prone to UV
> >deteriation and the other is prone to warping at tempratures
> >experienced in cabins.
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Zodie Rocket web page updated |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Fred or Sandy Hulen" <hulens61@birch.net>
> Nice job!!!! Did you fabricate the center panel that is below the
> standard zac panel?
Ray Montagne
++ Yes. A long time ago, I got a look at some pictures of George Pinneo's
plane, and amounst many nice things that I liked about it, I admired the
lower panel that he did. By adding that lower panel, plus using a digital
engine monitor instead of lot of analog gauges, it really clears up the
upper panel area, which then allowed me to have the "map box" too.
Fred
do not archive
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: 601 XL Rudder Tip Bent Strip (6T5-5) Question |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: PerryChappano <polestar@prodigy.net>
Larry,
You might let the folks at ZAC know and see if they'll send you a properly
sized strip; and do the same for other builders in future.
Perry Chappano
N9961 - 601XL
Do not archive
Larry Portouw wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Larry Portouw" <Larry@portouw.com>
>
> Jim,
> Thanks. I think thats the route Ill take- building a new part. I looked
> on the plans- the strip supplied by Zenith is 1cm shorter in each dimension
> than called for on the plan. If it was 1cm longer, all would work just
> fine.
>
> Larry Portouw
> Fort Huachuca, AZ
>
> ----------
>
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "James J. Cullen, Ph.D."
> <flyingcrownranch@lvcm.com>
>
> Hi Larry:
>
> You're not missing anything. I observed the same problem.
>
> I'm building a 601XL and am only about 2 weeks ahead of you in the
> construction sequence. Today, I drilled the elevator skin.
>
> With regards to your question, I scrapped the bent strip that ZAC sent me
> and made my own. Remember that the 10mm edge distance is a desirable target
> but it is not an absolute.
>
> As you progress through the aircraft, you'll find plenty of places where ZAC
> gives you an 8mm edge distance instead of 10. For example, take a look at
> the rivet pattern for the 6 elevator ribs. The two outboard ribs have rivet
> lines that are only 8 mm inboard from the edge of the elevator skin. The
> absolute is 2X the rivet diameter, which works out to about 6.5mm.
>
> Given that (and the problem that we have identified), I chose to make my own
> bent strip and accepted a bit less than 10mm for the rivet spacing.
>
> In any event, structurally, in this location, it's not all that critical.
> The tip rib will be held in place just fine by the rivets that go through
> the rudder skin into the tip rib. Note that these rivets are set at a 40mm
> pitch -- not for strength but just to keep the shape of the skin from
> developing a wavy appearance. If the pitch were based on structural
> requirements, a much larger pitch would be acceptable.
>
> Hope this helps.
>
> Jim Cullen
> Las Vegas, NV
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <zenith@portouw.com>
> To: "Zenith Matronics List" <Zenith-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: 601 XL Rudder Tip Bent Strip (6T5-5) Question
>
> > --> Zenith-List message posted by: <zenith@portouw.com>
> >
> > Greetings,
> > I'm ready to drill the holes through the bent strip into the spar to
> > attach the tip rib to the top of the spar. Both plans and the instruction
> > manual call for 4xA4 rivets. If I am to maintain a 10mm edge distance
> both
> > from the top edge of the spar and all edges of the bent strip AND maintain
> > the correct over-all distance from the bottom of the spar to the top of
> the
> > tip rib, I am left with a suitable rivet area of 4.5mm x 11.5 mm! So, in
> > order to get 4 rivets into the bent strip, I will need to violate the min
> > 10mm edge distance someplace. I can only shorten the overall height of
> the
> > rudder by 1mm and not violate the spar outside the tip rib flange
> > guidance. Yes, the long dimension of the bent strip is on the spar.
> Another
> > solution seems to be to scrap the bent strip supplied with the kit and
> make
> > a longer one.
> > So, it seems that since the rudder spar is thicker than the bent strip,
> I
> > should crowd the edge distance on the top of the spar?
> > How much can I eat into the 10mm with out serious risk? How have others
> > solved this one or am I missing something obvious?
> >
> > Larry Portouw
> > bin-lurking
> > Ft. Huachuca, AZ
> >
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | 601 Canopies....an alternative source |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Pete Ferguson" <pfergus2@tampabay.rr.com (spam)>
Here's a link to a new source of 601 canopies. The panel lighting stuff
looks pretty neat also......
http://www.aircraftextras.com/
Peter Ferguson
N601PK /
Jab 3300
@ airport / dreaming about Fred's instrument panel and interior amd paint
job.......
Message 5
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| Subject: | Dumb question about Fred's plane |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Bill Cardell <bill@flyinmiata.com>
Fred,
You mentioned you added your pictures to the zodie rocket site, but for
newbie dopes like me, what's the address?
Bill Cardell (TurboDog's Dad)
Flyin' Miata
www.flyinmiata.com
www.fmprotege.com
970-242-3800
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Dumb question about Fred's plane |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Steve Danielson" <steved@nc.rr.com>
It's here:
http://www.zenithair.com/bldrlist/profiles/Zodie_Rocket
(Took me a few minutes to find it myself)
do not archive
steve
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bill Cardell" <bill@flyinmiata.com>
Subject: Zenith-List: Dumb question about Fred's plane
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Bill Cardell <bill@flyinmiata.com>
>
> Fred,
> You mentioned you added your pictures to the zodie rocket site, but for
> newbie dopes like me, what's the address?
>
> Bill Cardell (TurboDog's Dad)
> Flyin' Miata
> www.flyinmiata.com
> www.fmprotege.com
> 970-242-3800
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Removing Stainless Steel Rivets |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Thomas Hoffmann <thoffmann@hardynet.com>
I need to remove some of the stainless A-5 rivets in the firewall of my
801. What type drill bit is best for drilling them out. Nick suggested
pulling the mandrell out from the back with a pair of side cutters, but
that doesn't seem to work so well.
Tom & Lynn Hoffmann
Capon Springs, West Virginia
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Removing Stainless Steel Rivets |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: ZSMITH3rd@aol.com
This is an opportunity to ruin some of the "used" bits you have already
discarded.
Just drill the stainless like it was an A4 or A5, only it will take longer.
And I can attest to there not being an "edge" left on the bit.
Zed Smith
701/R912
do not archive
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Zodie Rocket web page updated |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Rick <rick.pitcher@verizon.net>
Fred or Sandy Hulen wrote:
>
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Fred or Sandy Hulen" <hulens61@birch.net>
>
> After being heckled lately about the fact that since it's now been flown that
I needed to update my Zenith Builder's Web Page,.... I did so. It now shows
a finished aircraft view, a cockpit view, and a shot taken during take-off on
it's first flight.
>
> Fred Hulen
> N601LX Jabiru 3300 601 HDS
Beautiful bird Fred.
Do you have any pics of the Jabiru installation? I'm planning on using
that Jab 3300 on my Zodie.
Rick
Message 10
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| Subject: | Dumb question about Fred's plane |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Bill Cardell <bill@flyinmiata.com>
Thanks, Steve. Glad I asked. Fred, that is a beautiful piece of work.
Do not archive
Bill Cardell (TurboDog's Dad)
Flyin' Miata
www.flyinmiata.com
www.fmprotege.com
970-242-3800
-----Original Message-----
From: Steve Danielson [mailto:steved@nc.rr.com]
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Dumb question about Fred's plane
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Steve Danielson" <steved@nc.rr.com>
It's here:
http://www.zenithair.com/bldrlist/profiles/Zodie_Rocket
(Took me a few minutes to find it myself)
do not archive
steve
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bill Cardell" <bill@flyinmiata.com>
Subject: Zenith-List: Dumb question about Fred's plane
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Bill Cardell <bill@flyinmiata.com>
>
> Fred,
> You mentioned you added your pictures to the zodie rocket site, but
> for newbie dopes like me, what's the address?
>
> Bill Cardell (TurboDog's Dad)
> Flyin' Miata
> www.flyinmiata.com
> www.fmprotege.com
> 970-242-3800
>
>
>
>
>
>
advertising on the Matronics Forums.
Share: Share photos & files with other List members.
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Removing Stainless Steel Rivets |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jim Frisby" <marslander@hotmail.com>
Tom,
I had to remove some of these on my 801 project too. I used a sharp drill
bit, slightly smaller than the rivet (#23 for the #5 rivets). Use a
variable speed drill and keep it slow, otherwise the stainless will ruin
your drill bit. Drill just a little deeper than the head, the head may fall
off, if not, use the other end of the #23 bit, place it in the drilled hole
and rock the head, it should fall off. After you drill the head off, you
should be able to punch out the center mandril and then the rest of the
rivet. If you have access to the back of the part, you can pull the rivet
out with pliers, or use a weighted object with a hole big enough for the
back of the rivet to back up the part while you punch the rivet out, to
avoid distorting the parts.
Jim Frisby
Palmer, Alaska
N801ZA
All the big parts done, working on final assembly and systems.
>From: Thomas Hoffmann <thoffmann@hardynet.com>
>Reply-To: zenith-list@matronics.com
>To: zenith-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Zenith-List: Removing Stainless Steel Rivets
>Date: Sun, 19 Jan 2003 13:03:13 -0500
>
>--> Zenith-List message posted by: Thomas Hoffmann <thoffmann@hardynet.com>
>
>I need to remove some of the stainless A-5 rivets in the firewall of my
>801. What type drill bit is best for drilling them out. Nick suggested
>pulling the mandrell out from the back with a pair of side cutters, but
>that doesn't seem to work so well.
>Tom & Lynn Hoffmann
>Capon Springs, West Virginia
>
>
Message 12
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: alex trent <atrent7@cogeco.ca>
>
> Time: 08:08:14 PM PST US
> From: "Fred or Sandy Hulen" <hulens61@birch.net>
> Subject: Zenith-List: Zodie Rocket web page updated
>
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Fred or Sandy Hulen" <hulens61@birch.net>
>
> After being heckled lately about the fact that since it's now been flown that
I
> needed to update my Zenith Builder's Web Page,.... I did so. It now shows a
> finished aircraft view, a cockpit view, and a shot taken during take-off on it's
> first flight.
>
> Fred Hulen
> N601LX Jabiru 3300 601 HDS
So where does one find this page?
>
> do not archive
>
Message 13
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Fred or Sandy Hulen" <hulens61@birch.net>
> > Subject: Zenith-List: Zodie Rocket web page updated
>
> So where does one find this page?
>
http://www.zenithair.com/bldrlist/profiles/Zodie_Rocket
Message 14
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| Subject: | Web site malfunction |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Fred or Sandy Hulen" <hulens61@birch.net>
The Zenith web site dropped one of the (3) pictures that was posted. I re-uploaded
it again and it appears to be OK now.
Fred
do not archive
Message 15
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| Subject: | Brake Bleeding Question |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: STEFREE@aol.com
HI List,
I filled my matco Brake cylinders today yusing the method described by many
listers of using an oil can to pumpd fluid in from the brakes upto the
cylinder.
My question today is, no matter how hard I tried I could not get every single
air bubble out of the line. Is this a "major" issue? Will the bubble
eventually work itself out or do I need to get back in there and do whatever
it takes to makes sure there is ZERO air in the brake lines?
Thanks for any and all help.
Steve Freeman
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Brake Bleeding Question |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Larry C. McFarland" <larrymc@qconline.com>
> HI List,
>
> I filled my matco Brake cylinders today yusing the method described by
many
> listers of using an oil can to pumpd fluid in from the brakes upto the
> cylinder.
>
> My question today is, no matter how hard I tried I could not get every
single
> air bubble out of the line. Is this a "major" issue? Will the bubble
> eventually work itself out or do I need to get back in there and do
whatever
> it takes to makes sure there is ZERO air in the brake lines?
>
> Thanks for any and all help.
>
> Steve Freeman
Steve,
Zero is a perfect ideal.
What is best is probably evaluated on performance.
The brakes should feel positive, not soft or spongy at all. If you have the
MC-5s, bubbles are going to get above the cylinders at the reservoir end.
You
will probably have to recycle a bit of fluid to totally bleed out the lines
at the other
end where it's most important. This is a two-man job to get it right.
Good luck,
Larry C. McFarland - 601hds
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Removing Stainless Steel Rivets |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: IslPilot@aol.com
Tom:
As a mechanic I have removed similar rivets with a dremel tool with an
abrasive cut off wheel. You can carefully shave the head and then punch them
out. A drill bit really can wander on the harder materials.
Paul Baron
Charlevoix, MI
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Brake Bleeding Question |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: STEFREE@aol.com
In a message dated 1/19/03 5:53:50 PM US Mountain Standard Time,
larrymc@qconline.com writes:
> will probably have to recycle a bit of fluid to totally bleed out the lines
> at the other
> end where it's most important
Thanks for the response Larry,
The problem I ran into was actually on the oil can side. When I would pump
brake fluid, an air bubble would actually start forming as I compressed the
oil can trigger, that bubble then gets transferred to the brake line. I
cannot think of a way to stop this from happening without have a delivery
system that is airtight! Is that the case or am I just missing something
basic?
I tried to keep the fluid level in the oil can high enough so that the probe
end would always be in the fluid and not essentially "sucking air" But even
when I thought the probe was completely immersed in fluid I would still get
an air bubble into the line.
One side seems better than the otheer. On the paasenger side there is about
a 1/2 inch air bubble in the line. This unfortunately does not count areas
that I cannot see because they run through areas that I cannot easily
inspect. But on the pilots side brake line there are no visible air bubbles
in all easily viewed areas of the brake line path.
As a side issue, if someone is using aluminum brake lines which you cannot
see through, how would you know if the brake lines had an air bubble in them?
Thanks,
Steve Freeman
Message 19
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| Subject: | Jabiru installation |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Chuck Deiterich" <cfd@thegateway.net>
I have updated my web site http://members.thegateway.net/cfd with pix of my Jabiru
2200 installation in my 701.
Chuck Deiterich
N701TX
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: Brake Bleeding Question |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Chesterman Family <chesterman@on.aibn.com>
Try a different brand of oil can and watch the connections between the spout and
the brake cylinder bleed screw. Make sure there is not air left in the wheel
cylinder which is working out as you pump.
Dave,701 Ontario.ca
>
> Thanks for the response Larry,
>
> The problem I ran into was actually on the oil can side. When I would pump
> brake fluid, an air bubble would actually start forming as I compressed the
> oil can trigger, that bubble then gets transferred to the brake line. I
> cannot think of a way to stop this from happening without have a delivery
> syste
Message 21
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "George Swinford" <grs-pms@attbi.com>
Steve:
Can you rig up a reservoir which will feed the fitting on the wheel cylinder by
gravity? The reservoir has to be higher than the master cylinder. That way no
bubble will be introduced.
Another solution is a pressure bleeder.
George
Message 22
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| Subject: | Brake Bleeding Question |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Phil & Michele Miller" <millerpg@ps.gen.nz>
Steve,
When I acquired my 701 with Matco cylinders it had a leak on one side
where the bleed nipple wasn't fully tightened. There was no fluid in the
cylinder or the line and probably very little in the wheel cylinder. I
was advised to simply top up the cylinder and pump it repeatedly to get
rid of the air (no opening of the wheel cylinder bleed nipple). I was
sceptical but tried it anyway and it worked perfectly. Before long I had
no air and solid pedal pressure. Obviously I had to keep the cylinder
topped up as the air came up and the fluid went down.
It's worth a try.
Cheers,
Phil M
New Zealand
701
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
STEFREE@aol.com
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Brake Bleeding Question
--> Zenith-List message posted by: STEFREE@aol.com
In a message dated 1/19/03 5:53:50 PM US Mountain Standard Time,
larrymc@qconline.com writes:
The problem I ran into was actually on the oil can side. When I would
pump
brake fluid, an air bubble would actually start forming as I compressed
the
oil can trigger, that bubble then gets transferred to the brake line. I
cannot think of a way to stop this from happening without have a
delivery
system that is airtight!
Thanks,
Steve Freeman
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