Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 02:28 AM - Re: 912 S to 701 application (Phil & Michele Miller)
2. 05:55 AM - Re: Stratus Valve guide failures (Carlson, Dale)
3. 06:01 AM - Failure in the Air-Stratus (Don Walker)
4. 07:41 AM - Re: Stratus Valve guide failures (HINDE,FRANK (HP-Corvallis,ex1))
5. 07:44 AM - Re: Stratus Valve guide failures (HINDE,FRANK (HP-Corvallis,ex1))
6. 07:46 AM - Be Aware FAA can pull anyones license without recourse.. SECURITY (Hal Rozema)
7. 08:33 AM - Re: Stratus Valve guide failures (HINDE,FRANK (HP-Corvallis,ex1))
8. 09:42 AM - WEIGHT & BALANCE REPORT (owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com)
9. 10:28 AM - Re: WEIGHT & BALANCE REPORT (HINDE,FRANK (HP-Corvallis,ex1))
10. 10:40 AM - Re: WEIGHT & BALANCE REPORT (Mark A. Wood)
11. 11:00 AM - Re: Stratus Valve guide failures (JNBOLDING1)
12. 11:35 AM - Re: Official Usage Guideline [Please Read] [Monthly Posting] (Eric Mchugh)
13. 11:54 AM - Re: Stratus Valve guide failures (Scott Laughlin)
14. 12:43 PM - Re: WEIGHT & BALANCE REPORT (owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com)
15. 02:54 PM - Re: Stratus Valve guide failures (Larry C. McFarland)
16. 03:22 PM - Re: Stratus Valve guide failures (water Cooling) (Gary Gower)
17. 03:47 PM - updated plans for 701 (Randy L. Thwing)
18. 03:54 PM - Re: Stratus Valve guide failures (water Cooling) (HINDE,FRANK (HP-Corvallis,ex1))
19. 04:03 PM - Re: Stratus Valve guide failures (The Meiste's)
20. 04:20 PM - Rotax 914 (Nathan Free)
21. 04:20 PM - Re: Stratus Valve guide failures (water Cooling) (Philip Polstra)
22. 04:20 PM - Re: Stratus Valve guide failures (The Meiste's)
23. 04:48 PM - Re: Stratus Valve guide failures (Don Walker)
24. 04:53 PM - Re: updated plans for 701 (JGJ)
Message 1
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| Subject: | 912 S to 701 application |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Phil & Michele Miller" <millerpg@ps.gen.nz>
Hi, Lowell,
No problems in that direction that I am aware of thus far.
Cheers,
Phil Miller
New Zealand
701 912ULS, 72 hours TT
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lowell Metz
Subject: Zenith-List: 912 S to 701 application
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Lowell Metz
--> <lowellmetz@earthlink.net>
Has any 701 builder with the R 912 U/L S experienced any resonance ore
harmonic vibration which would necessitate adding a different
clutch. Before my engine dealer sent the engine, he wanted me to check
so
as to get me the correct set-up for the 701.
Lowell Metz
direct advertising on the Matronics Forums.
Message 2
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| Subject: | Stratus Valve guide failures |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Carlson, Dale" <DCarlson@mail.dese.state.mo.us>
I am going against the grain this morning, but a couple of weeks ago someone was
talking about painting their aircraft using a $1,000 rig and then purchased
a $49 paint gun from Harbor Freight that seemed to work as well as the more expensive
gun.
I would like to find the exact model of the Harbor Freight paint gun if anyone
has that info. Thanks
Dale Carlson
CH-801
-----Original Message-----
From: Don Walker [mailto:dwalk3dw@msn.com]
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Stratus Valve guide failures
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Don Walker" <dwalk3dw@msn.com>
Dave, My valve guide clearances were still within spec when I checked them
after the incidents I previously described. Prior to the initial failure two
years ago they were set at the Stratus book spec of .016. Then I changed
them to .o14 as amended by Stratus. The next two occurred at this setting.
Stratus has them all set equally on intake and exhaust and they are
different than the car book settings. Don
----- Original Message -----
From: "David & Maria Lumgair" <dlummy@visi.net>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Stratus Valve guide failures
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "David & Maria Lumgair"
<dlummy@visi.net>
>
> Steve -
> Relax - The soob has been an excellent choice for aircraft for
> years. Now for the experimental part - every plane is different - and
every
> one has a quirk. Of the probably thousands flying I would dare say that
> bang for the buck of a soob is right up there if not better than any of
the
> others. As for RoTAX engines - not knocking them - they break too. Bonus
> with a soob is that the local machine shop can work on them, parts
> (generally) are at your local auto parts store, and there is a world full
of
> publications on them. I'm going to bang my head against a wall and see
what
> comes out on this valve guide issue, I have a couple friends that build
> racing engines (for cars) and I might bounce ideas off them too - I've
been
> taking notes off the thread and comparing data... IF ANYONE ELSE HAS A
SOOB
> PLEASE POST YOUR NORMAL COOLANT/OIL TEMPS and the results of your valve
> adjustments (ie were they generally still within spec and after how many
> hours.) I have formed a hypothesis now and will let you know my results.
> Dave
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <STEFREE@aol.com>
> To: <zenith-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Stratus Valve guide failures
>
>
> > --> Zenith-List message posted by: STEFREE@aol.com
> >
> > Hi List,
> >
> > What does a guide failure "sound like" in the air, and then what are the
> > immediate handling issues? Does the engine just quit and you gotta land
> > immediately, or are you running on reduced power and just better find
> > something quick? On the outside does the engine change appearance or is
> this
> > completely internal? Does anyone know where I can find a good book on
the
> > EA-81 engine so I can see a good "blow out" of the engine so I can even
> > understand fully the issues discussed, and...How do I know if I have the
> > modified valve guides or the old ones. I purchased my engine almost
> exactly
> > 3 years ago.
> >
> > Sorry for the run on sentence!
> >
> > All of this discussion really has me worried about my engine choice. I
am
> > not an engine mechanic by any stretch and I am seriously worried that I
> have
> > made poor choice. I have not seen on this list anywhere near this type
of
> > problem discussed with the Rotax engines.
> >
> > Thanks for your help and insight guys,
> >
> > Steve (Getting close) Freeman
> > 601 HDS, Stratus, 95% complete, should be taxi testing in the spring! If
> all
> > goes well!
> > N902AL
> >
> >
>
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Failure in the Air-Stratus |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Don Walker" <dwalk3dw@msn.com>
Hi Steve,
I have had two in the air. the first was at 4500' after popping up
through a little cloud and and then pulling back, descending and leveling
off. When I put the power back in the engine popped and was shaking like
mad. I pulled back to 3300 rpm and limped to the nearest airport, 7 miles
away. In this case a chunk of the valve guide broke off and hit the spark
plug, closing the gap. In effect I was just running on three cylinders with
no idea what the heck had happened. the engine ran fine, but very rough.
On the most recent occasion I had just taken off and climbed to about
1500 feet. Then I heard a whirring sound. I imagined a belt or something had
frayed and was slapping something with each turn. Come to find out a piece
of the guide had embedded in the piston and was hitting the cylinder head
with each stroke. There was no loss of power, and I turned around and landed
where I had just taken off. After looking at three of these, I have
concluded that chances are good one will have ample warning before the
machine gives up and quits on you. It has been a pain to find myself
stranded in other airports though, but that is better than in a field or the
trees, huh?
Don
----- Original Message -----
From: <STEFREE@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Stratus Valve guide failures
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: STEFREE@aol.com
>
> Hi List,
>
> What does a guide failure "sound like" in the air, and then what are the
> immediate handling issues? Does the engine just quit and you gotta land
> immediately, or are you running on reduced power and just better find
> something quick? On the outside does the engine change appearance or is
this
> completely internal? Does anyone know where I can find a good book on the
> EA-81 engine so I can see a good "blow out" of the engine so I can even
> understand fully the issues discussed, and...How do I know if I have the
> modified valve guides or the old ones. I purchased my engine almost
exactly
> 3 years ago.
>
> Sorry for the run on sentence!
>
> All of this discussion really has me worried about my engine choice. I am
> not an engine mechanic by any stretch and I am seriously worried that I
have
> made poor choice. I have not seen on this list anywhere near this type of
> problem discussed with the Rotax engines.
>
> Thanks for your help and insight guys,
>
> Steve (Getting close) Freeman
> 601 HDS, Stratus, 95% complete, should be taxi testing in the spring! If
all
> goes well!
> N902AL
>
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Stratus Valve guide failures |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "HINDE,FRANK (HP-Corvallis,ex1)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
Timing on the starter motor (1000rpm?) was 6 degrees on the primary and 3
degrees on the secondary.
When I set the timing It was 32 degrees at 4500rpm on the primary. Both of
my ignitions are built into the same distributor so have the same amount of
mechanical advance.
Plugs looked great....well, till a piece of valve guide mangled one of them!
Mykal is putting down my problems to dual ignition, saying his head shop guy
has seen excessive cylinder heat.
Well, the EGT I'm going to fit will prove/disprove that theory.
MY theory (and I'm hoping I'm wrong, because the new heads will be the same)
is that press fitting the guides at room temp is simply inadequate and the
head should be heated, guide chilled and a much bigger interference fit is
required.
But as I say that's just my theory.
Frank
-----Original Message-----
From: Dave Alberti [mailto:daberti@execpc.com]
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Stratus Valve guide failures
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave Alberti" <daberti@execpc.com>
And is the timing the same on both ignitions?
Dave
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bill Cardell" <bill@flyinmiata.com>
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Stratus Valve guide failures
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Bill Cardell <bill@flyinmiata.com>
>
> I'm with Dave, the dual ignition should be cutting temps. One big
> cause of increased temps would be retarded timing. What kind of timing
> does it run
at
> cruise or full power? Coolant temps?
>
> Bill Cardell (TurboDog's Dad)
> bill@flyinmiata.com
> Flyin' Miata
> 1-800-359-6957 (sales only)
> 970-242-3800 (tech support)
> http://flyinmiata.com
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: David & Maria Lumgair [mailto:dlummy@visi.net]
> To: zenith-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Stratus Valve guide failures
>
>
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "David & Maria Lumgair"
<dlummy@visi.net>
>
>
> > We are not sure what caused it but the head shop says that there
> > appears
> to
> > have been excessive heat within the cylinder possibly caused by the
> running
> > of both ignitions at once. Do I buy this theory? No I don't but in
> > the
end
> > what can you do?
>
> Just for the record, running dual ignitions should increase efficiency
> and REDUCE Cylinder head temps -especially with dual plugs (which I
> don't
expect
> on a stratus). Your timing theory could be on target - what do the
> spark plugs look like when you remove them? Bright white? or with
> small
metallic
> particles on them that are barely visible to the naked eye? If you
> see particles I would look at detonation - if not - check for a
> manifold leak, or if you have a multi carb setup, check for a lean
> carburator, either of those two will definitely cause heat problems.
> Dave
>
> DO NOT ARCHIVE
>
>
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Message 5
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| Subject: | Stratus Valve guide failures |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "HINDE,FRANK (HP-Corvallis,ex1)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
To be honest Jackie I don't buy it either!
Frank
-----Original Message-----
From: jackie b johnson [mailto:zjohnson@ucnsb.net]
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Stratus Valve guide failures
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "jackie b johnson"
--> <zjohnson@ucnsb.net>
Don't buy your dual ignition theory..I run both all the time..use 95 % car
gas..ign is set as per NSI at 33-34 degs, and my temps are steady 200-210 on
water,190-200 on oil...at 350 hrs,no problems so far..knock on wood..do keep
us informed,w3hat ever you find..thanks
Jackie N5JZ
-----Original Message-----
From: HINDE,FRANK (HP-Corvallis,ex1) <frank.hinde@hp.com>
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Stratus Valve guide failures
>--> Zenith-List message posted by: "HINDE,FRANK (HP-Corvallis,ex1)"
<frank.hinde@hp.com>
>
>The nature of my failure, Well as I said the "Jim the machinist" says
>the heads have been exposed to excessive heat.
>
>Failure exactly the same as other guides (so the clip really does
>nothing except "dissappear") i.e the guide moves out of the hole and
>gets hammered back and forth, the clip dissappears and the guide slips
>down and get gets hammered open by the tapered part of the valve...then
>you look for a field!
>
>Once again God was gracious and I made it back home.
>
>Ok Then why?.....Maybe running both ignitions simultaneously.....Hmmmm
>
>
>Mykal is now rebuilding heads at my cost....
>
>Frank
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Don Walker [mailto:dwalk3dw@msn.com]
>To: zenith-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Stratus Valve guide failures
>
>
>--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Don Walker" <dwalk3dw@msn.com>
>
>Darn Frank, I am sorry to hear it. I had my first guide failure two
>years ago at 42 hours. Mikel sent me another head and assured me the
>other original was unlikely to have a problem. Of course the other
>original failed..at 250 hours. It was another knurled intake guide.
>Then ten hours later the replacement head he sent me had one fail. This
>replacement head failed on another darned knurled guide. So I have had
>three now..pretty disgusting. Believe it or not, I had a machinist here
>do the heads for me. He put in oversized guides, honed the bores with a
>gunbarrel pattern which he put locktight in. He says I will have to
>machine them out. We'll see. He did them for $50 a head. MIKEL WANTED $200
PLUS A CORE for a head.
> I had been thinking of making a couple new heads up with the bronze,
>but now I wonder. WHAT WAS THE NATURE OF YOUR FAILURE? Don Walker, HDS
>270 hr.
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "HINDE,FRANK (HP-Corvallis,ex1)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
>To: <zenith-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: Zenith-List: Stratus Valve guide failures
>
>
>> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "HINDE,FRANK (HP-Corvallis,ex1)"
><frank.hinde@hp.com>
>>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> I just had a failure of one of Stratus's valve guides in my engine.
>> This
>is
>> the new style Phosphor bronze guides with a retaining clip.
>>
>> Stratus tells me I am the only failure they know about with this new
>> style of guide. I wanted to see if there were any others out there to
>> see if
>there
>> is more of a problem?
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>> Frank
>>
>>
>
>
>advertising on the Matronics Forums.
>Share: Share photos & files with other List members.
>
>
advertising on the Matronics Forums.
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Message 6
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|
business journal <phoenix@bizjournals.com>, CHANNEL 3 <scott@azfamily.com>,
Chuck Mulloy <cdmbam@yahoo.com>, drudge <drudge@drudgereport.com>,
George W Bush <president@whitehouse.gov>,
Joe Norris EAA Information <jnorris@eaa.org>,
Mariann <info@arizonaaviation.com>, Mike DiFrisco <mdifrisco@eaa.org>,
Paul Bessing kitlog <pbesing@yahoo.com>,
to send to Jodel Group <jodel@yahoogroups.com>,
ZENITH LIST <zenith-list@matronics.com>,
"rv-list@matronics.com" <rv-list@matronics.com>,
"avionics-list@matronics.com" <avionics-list@matronics.com>
| Subject: | Be Aware FAA can pull anyones license without recourse.. |
SECURITY
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Hal Rozema <hartist1@cox.net>
You're Grounded/Suspended: TSA Trumps FAA
TSA Takes Over Issuance/Maintenance of Certificates, in New NPRM
In the Federal Register Friday, 01.24.2003, you'll be able to see that
you can be
knocked out of the air -- just like that -- if the TSA alleges that you
pose
a 'security risk.' Pilots will be immediately grounded; mechanics, DERs
--
everybody who holds a certificate of any kind from the FAA -- can be
immediately out of a job.
The TSA will notify you that you are considered a 'security risk.' It
will
notify the FAA; and the FAA will immediately suspend your ticket(s),
pending
your 'appeal.'
You will then have to convince the TSA (which already declared you a
'security risk') that you are not a 'security risk,' without your
knowing
why they think you are such a risk. Then, when the TSA issues its final
ruling, the FAA will revoke your papers.
We wanted some confirmation on this, and called the TSA. Chris Rhatigan,
in
the press office there, said, "You may have to talk to the FAA on that."
We read her a part of the summary, which says, "This final rule
expressly
makes a person ineligible to hold FAA-issued airman certificates if the
Transportation Security Administration notifies the FAA in writing that
the
person poses a security threat."
As we continued reading, and noted that the TSA was calling the shots,
she
said, "Hold on a second." She returned, and said, "This [determination
that
you're a security threat] comes from an intelligence database." OK --
so,
how do we know how big a threat, or how it's determined that one even is
such a threat? "We don't tell people how to get on to that database,"
she
said. In other words, if you're denied your certificate, you won't be
able
to find out why -- just that someone, somewhere, thinks you're a
'security
risk.'
Ms Rhatigan informed us that everything would be spelled out in the
NPRM,
and that we'd have to wait until Friday, to see what was getting
published
in the Federal Register. Well, folks the law goes into effect Friday. No
NPRM. No discussion. Decree. Tough.
Message 7
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| Subject: | Stratus Valve guide failures |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "HINDE,FRANK (HP-Corvallis,ex1)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
So, the one piece of good news is that so far no one has documented any
failures of the new style Stratus valve guides. In other words Mykal's claim
that I am the only one is substantiated.
Hopefully I got the "one in a million" or the dual ignition/detonation
theory is correct, which personally I doubt but I am willing to go with it
hoping the thing won't strand me 500 miles from home!
This whole issue is a real shame because having built the Stratus motor it
really is a superb design, one of the strongest little puppies I have ever
put together.
My guess is that there was never a problem with an original subaru valve
guide (even though I don't like the design of the guide which does not
inlude a step to prevent it moving into the head should it come loose)
because they are put in with a much tighter interference fit than the
average aftermarket head rebuilder does.
How about this....Have you ever heard of a ring gear coming off a flywheel?
They are put on using the "heat the ring in my mother oven, put the flywheel
in the freezer" method......Nope never happens!
Similarly guides are put in the same way ( I made guides and valve seats for
an old aircooled motorcycle and it used to get so hot it once melted its own
oil lines....guides never moved though!) without problems.
Now we have "ignition timing" causing engines to break?
Sounds a bit lame doesn't it?
Frank
Message 8
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| Subject: | WEIGHT & BALANCE REPORT |
--> Zenith-List message posted by:
Hi to everyone:
My instructor and I are just finishing my 601 UL (http://www.osset.com/yago/photos/5/index.htm)
and we got a point where me need to cross a small bureaucratic
problem which it seems to be more dificult than many others we had during the
building process. The spaniard aviation authority needs from me the WEIGHT &
BALANCE REPORT of the plane in order to continue with the matriculation process.
We built my 601 with no Header Tank, but only with LE Tanks. The problem appears
when I try to find the Weight and Balance Report with this last configuration.
At Zenith's site you can only find the Header Tank Report Version at http://www.zenithair.com/zodiac/data/hd-w&b.pdf
but not the LE Tank Version.
I've tried to get in touch with the ZENITH AIRCRAFT COMPANY through the form mail
the offer on their site 2 days ago with no response.
Without the correct Report we can not go on with the matriculation process.
Does anyone have the correct Report or know how I can get it?
Thanks in advance
Yago Osset
Spain
---------------------------------
Personaliza tu mvil con tu logo y meloda favorito
Message 9
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| Subject: | WEIGHT & BALANCE REPORT |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "HINDE,FRANK (HP-Corvallis,ex1)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
Hello Yago,
I built 601 HD with LE wing tanks only. Of course you can simply fill and
empty the tanks and weigh the A/C to see the difference on the W&B. In the
USA we simply fill out our own report based on what we see on the scales and
adding the max baggage in the various lockers based on the moment arm
published by ZAC.
I do seem to remember calling Nick at Zenith and he giving me the moment arm
for the LE tanks, so that gave me the approximate position for the battery
during the final build.
So I'm pretty sure he has the information you need if you are not allowed to
do your own.
From my perspective you have done the right thing in going with the LE
tanks. Apart from reduced fire hazard I believe the LE tanks have almost no
influence on the balance of the plane...but that was based on my memory from
1999!
Frank
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com]
Subject: Zenith-List: WEIGHT & BALANCE REPORT
--> Zenith-List message posted by:
Hi to everyone:
My instructor and I are just finishing my 601 UL
(http://www.osset.com/yago/photos/5/index.htm) and we got a point where me
need to cross a small bureaucratic problem which it seems to be more
dificult than many others we had during the building process. The spaniard
aviation authority needs from me the WEIGHT & BALANCE REPORT of the plane in
order to continue with the matriculation process. We built my 601 with no
Header Tank, but only with LE Tanks. The problem appears when I try to find
the Weight and Balance Report with this last configuration. At Zenith's site
you can only find the Header Tank Report Version at
http://www.zenithair.com/zodiac/data/hd-w&b.pdf but not the LE Tank Version.
I've tried to get in touch with the ZENITH AIRCRAFT COMPANY through the form
mail the offer on their site 2 days ago with no response.
Without the correct Report we can not go on with the matriculation process.
Does anyone have the correct Report or know how I can get it?
Thanks in advance
Yago Osset
Spain
---------------------------------
Personaliza tu mvil con tu logo y meloda favorito
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: WEIGHT & BALANCE REPORT |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Mark A. Wood" <mawood@zoo.uvm.edu>
Hi Yago
The pictures on your web pages look very nice, looks like you did a
great job building.
The way I understand it there should be no difference with or without
the header so you can use the same worksheet. What is important is
the center of gravity range in relation to the Datum/wing. The best
way is to not use the ARMs in the chart, but load YOUR plane every
way you can,
one person, no fuel, full baggage,
one person, full fuel, full baggage,
one person, full fuel, no baggage,
one person, no fuel, no baggage,
two people, no fuel ,no baggage,
etc, etc, etc
In each situation, find weight on each wheel and find the center of
gravity for that situation, (remember Ln (nosewheel) is negative)
and see if it is within the CG range of 265 mm - 445 mm.
If you measure your plane in every situation, you know you are safe.
Mark Wood
>--> Zenith-List message posted by:
>
>
>Hi to everyone:
>My instructor and I are just finishing my 601 UL
>(http://www.osset.com/yago/photos/5/index.htm) and we got a point
>where me need to cross a small bureaucratic problem which it
> At Zenith's site you can only find the Header Tank Report Version
>at http://www.zenithair.com/zodiac/data/hd-w&b.pdf but not the LE
>Tank Version.
>I've tried to get in touch with the ZENITH AIRCRAFT COMPANY through
>the form mail the offer on their site 2 days ago with no response.
>Without the correct Report we can not go on with the matriculation process.
>Does anyone have the correct Report or know how I can get it?
>Thanks in advance
>Yago Osset
>Spain
Message 11
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| Subject: | Stratus Valve guide failures |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "JNBOLDING1" <JNBOLDING1@mail.ev1.net>
---------- Original Message ----------------------------------
From: "Carlson, Dale" <DCarlson@mail.dese.state.mo.us>
>--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Carlson, Dale" <DCarlson@mail.dese.state.mo.us>
>
>I am going against the grain this morning, but a couple of weeks ago someone was
talking about painting their aircraft using a $1,000 rig and then purchased
a $49 paint gun from Harbor Freight that seemed to work as well as the more expensive
gun.
>
>I would like to find the exact model of the Harbor Freight paint gun if anyone
has that info. Thanks
>
>Dale Carlson
>CH-801
Dale I sold Paint spray equipment for a living for about 33 yrs and will offer
my opinion. SOMETIMES the cheapo/ knockoff equipment will do the job as well
as the original it was copied from, sometimes it won't due to a design change
thought unimportant by the offshore manufacturer or machining tolerances. ALWAYS
you can get help or parts on the quality stuff (BINKS or DeVilbiss primarily)
and after spending all that time and $$ on your airplane whats another few
bucks for the good stuff that you can use the rest of your life. I have painted
several airplanes with a DEV gun made in the 30's that many of the parts
from the latest model still fit on. Just my opinion John
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Official Usage Guideline [Please Read] [Monthly Posting] |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Eric Mchugh" <e.mch@tiscali.co.uk>
UN/SUBSCRIBE
-----Original Message-----
From: Matt Dralle <dralle@matronics.com>
Subject: Zenith-List: Official Usage Guideline [Please Read] [Monthly
Posting]
>--> Zenith-List message posted by: dralle@matronics.com (Matt Dralle)
>
>
>***************************************************************************
***
> Zenith-List Usage Guidelines
>***************************************************************************
***
>
>The following details the official Usage Guidelines for the Zenith-List.
>You are encouraged to read it carefully, and to abide by the rules therein.
>Failure to use the Zenith-List in the manner described below may result
>in the removal of the subscribers from the List.
>
>
>Zenith-List Policy Statement
>
>The purpose of the Zenith-List is to provide a forum of discussion for
>things related to this particular discussion group. The List's goals
>are to serve as an information resource to its members; to deliver
>high-quality content; to provide moral support; to foster camaraderie
>among its members; and to support safe operation. Reaching these goals
>requires the participation and cooperation of each and every member of
>the List. To this end, the following guidelines have been established:
>
>
> - Please keep all posts related to the List at some level. Do not submit
> posts concerning computer viruses, urban legends, random humor, long
> lost buddies' phone numbers, etc. etc.
>
> - THINK carefully before you write. Ask yourself if your post will be
> relevant to everyone. If you have to wonder about that, DON'T send it.
>
> - Remember that your post will be included for posterity in an archive
> that is growing in size at a extraordinary rate. Try to be concise and
> terse in your posts. Avoid overly wordy and lengthy posts and
> responses.
>
> - Keep your signature brief. Please include your name, email address,
> aircraft type/tail number, and geographic location. A short line
> about where you are in the building process is also nice. Avoid
> bulky signatures with character graphics; they consume unnecessary
> space in the archive.
>
> - DON'T post requests to the List for information when that info is
> easily obtainable from other widely available sources. Consult the
> web page or FAQ first.
>
> - If you want to respond to a post, DO keep the "Subject:" line of
> your response the same as that of the original post. This makes it
> easy to find threads in the archive.
>
> - When responding, NEVER quote the *entire* original post in your
> response. DO use lines from the original post to help "tune in" the
> reader to the topic at hand, but be selective. The impact that
> quoting the entire original post has on the size of the archive
> can not be overstated!
>
> - When the poster asks you to respond to him/her personally, DO NOT
> then go ahead and reply to the List. Be aware that clicking the
> "reply" button on your mail package does not necessarily send your
> response to the original poster. You might have to actively address
> your response with the original poster's email address.
>
> - DO NOT use the List to respond to a post unless you have something
> to add that is relevant and has a broad appeal. "Way to go!", "I
> agree", and "Congratulations" are all responses that are better sent
> to the original poster directly, rather than to the List at large.
>
> - When responding to others' posts, avoid the feeling that you need to
> comment on every last point in their posts, unless you can truly
> contribute something valuable.
>
> - Feel free to disagree with other viewpoints, BUT keep your tone
> polite and respectful. Don't make snide comments, personally attack
> other listers, or take the moral high ground on an obviously
> controversial issue. This will only cause a pointless debate that
> will hurt feelings, waste bandwidth and resolve nothing.
>
>-------
>
>
Message 13
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| Subject: | Stratus Valve guide failures |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Scott Laughlin" <cookwithgas@hotmail.com>
Dale:
I have mostly been watching the posts in this forum since I'm just getting
started, but I have had some experience with Painting - mostly automobiles.
I first pained with a conventional gun with excellent results. It was a
cheap gun known as a "throw-away" simply because once a part fails, you just
buy another one. The higher quality guns can be repaired as mentioned in an
earlier post. But here's where I can offer you some advice. I changed to
an HVLP (high volume, low pressure) gun on my last paint adventure and was
really happy with the low overspray. You will want to go this route. The
conventional gun is easier to use, but you get paint everywhere. I painted
a large part in the garage with the HVLP gun and had almost no overspray.
I had two experiences with HVLP guns - I bought a new one of better quality
- a sharpe. The main thing I like about the $200 gun versus the $59 HVLP
gun is that I got an aluminum cup on the good gun. This is far better than
the cheap plastic cup. These are top feed guns and the paint leaked quite a
bit on the plastic cup gun. The aluminum cup works much better and you can
tighten it more.
So, with all that said, I recommend that you budget about $150 to $200 for a
good, top-feed, HVLP gun. I'm assuming you have a good air compressor. Be
sure to use a large diameter (1/2"), short hose. If you use a long hose,
you wont' get the volume you need to do a good job. If you have a paint
booth with good ventilation (not something I have ever had access to), then
the conventional siphon, throwaway gun might be best, but I like the HVLP
gun better.
This is the gun I got from www.northerntool.com:
http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?storeId=6970&langId=-1&catalogId=4006970&PHOTOS=on&TEST=Y&productId=200023024&categoryId=0
If the link does not work, it's a Sharpe 'Hot Rod' 1.5mm HVLP Spray Gun
Combo, Item# 1595603.
Good luck!
----Original Message Follows----
From: "Carlson, Dale" <DCarlson@mail.dese.state.mo.us>
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Stratus Valve guide failures
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Carlson, Dale"
<DCarlson@mail.dese.state.mo.us>
I am going against the grain this morning, but a couple of weeks ago someone
was talking about painting their aircraft using a $1,000 rig and then
purchased a $49 paint gun from Harbor Freight that seemed to work as well as
the more expensive gun.
I would like to find the exact model of the Harbor Freight paint gun if
anyone has that info. Thanks
Dale Carlson
CH-801
-----Original Message-----
From: Don Walker [mailto:dwalk3dw@msn.com]
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Stratus Valve guide failures
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Don Walker" <dwalk3dw@msn.com>
Dave, My valve guide clearances were still within spec when I checked them
after the incidents I previously described. Prior to the initial failure two
years ago they were set at the Stratus book spec of .016. Then I changed
them to .o14 as amended by Stratus. The next two occurred at this setting.
Stratus has them all set equally on intake and exhaust and they are
different than the car book settings. Don
----- Original Message -----
From: "David & Maria Lumgair" <dlummy@visi.net>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Stratus Valve guide failures
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "David & Maria Lumgair"
<dlummy@visi.net>
>
> Steve -
> Relax - The soob has been an excellent choice for aircraft for
> years. Now for the experimental part - every plane is different - and
every
> one has a quirk. Of the probably thousands flying I would dare say that
> bang for the buck of a soob is right up there if not better than any of
the
> others. As for RoTAX engines - not knocking them - they break too.
Bonus
> with a soob is that the local machine shop can work on them, parts
> (generally) are at your local auto parts store, and there is a world full
of
> publications on them. I'm going to bang my head against a wall and see
what
> comes out on this valve guide issue, I have a couple friends that build
> racing engines (for cars) and I might bounce ideas off them too - I've
been
> taking notes off the thread and comparing data... IF ANYONE ELSE HAS A
SOOB
> PLEASE POST YOUR NORMAL COOLANT/OIL TEMPS and the results of your valve
> adjustments (ie were they generally still within spec and after how many
> hours.) I have formed a hypothesis now and will let you know my results.
> Dave
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <STEFREE@aol.com>
> To: <zenith-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Stratus Valve guide failures
>
>
> > --> Zenith-List message posted by: STEFREE@aol.com
> >
> > Hi List,
> >
> > What does a guide failure "sound like" in the air, and then what are
the
> > immediate handling issues? Does the engine just quit and you gotta
land
> > immediately, or are you running on reduced power and just better find
> > something quick? On the outside does the engine change appearance or
is
> this
> > completely internal? Does anyone know where I can find a good book on
the
> > EA-81 engine so I can see a good "blow out" of the engine so I can even
> > understand fully the issues discussed, and...How do I know if I have
the
> > modified valve guides or the old ones. I purchased my engine almost
> exactly
> > 3 years ago.
> >
> > Sorry for the run on sentence!
> >
> > All of this discussion really has me worried about my engine choice. I
am
> > not an engine mechanic by any stretch and I am seriously worried that I
> have
> > made poor choice. I have not seen on this list anywhere near this type
of
> > problem discussed with the Rotax engines.
> >
> > Thanks for your help and insight guys,
> >
> > Steve (Getting close) Freeman
> > 601 HDS, Stratus, 95% complete, should be taxi testing in the spring!
If
> all
> > goes well!
> > N902AL
> >
> >
>
>
The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE*
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: WEIGHT & BALANCE REPORT |
--> Zenith-List message posted by:
Hi:
Thanks to all of you that had answered me so quick. I must say that (as well I
responsed to Phil Owens through a private email) this is not for a common use.
This requirement is only to cover a bureaucracy step. Actually it is completely
stupid and unusefull at all, but the the governmental organization (called
Civil Aviation in Spain) is responsible for certificating every plane built, and
it is required, among dozens of other stupid bureaucratic steps, the weight
and balance report or sheet detailed by the manufacturer.
I see that you just need that for a routine use as part of the preflight procedure,
which it seems more logical than what it is happening to me.
Anyway, if anyone is still able to help me on this, I will apreciate it very much.
Thanks Mark, Frank, and Phil for your explanations.
PD: By the way, Mark; unfortunally it wasn't me the real builder. It was my instructor,
although I helped every weekend on it. But the most important think is
that I have learned a lot, not only with him, but with all the members of this
list, so I would like to say thanks to all of you, that are true masters of
my learning with every message posted out here. This encourage me to make my
dream come true: being some day the unique builder (sure in the future).
---------------------------------
Personaliza tu mvil con tu logo y meloda favorito
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Stratus Valve guide failures |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Larry C. McFarland" <larrymc@qconline.com>
Frank,
I cannot make the timing to over-heating connection. We're talking
about retarded timing causing the temps to rise? HMMM.
It may be time to rethink Grant's recommendation for the use of waterless
glycol coolant from Evans
coolant systems. This stuff doesn't boil away from hot surfaces, if
that's what's happening, and you'd probably run a little cooler. It doesn't
need
a pressure system and may be the insurance we're looking for.
Has anyone have any user experience with this stuff to relate?
I'd be willing to try it but that's a ways off.
Larry C. McFarland Stratus-601hds
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Stratus Valve guide failures
> Similarly guides are put in the same way ( I made guides and valve seats
for
> an old aircooled motorcycle and it used to get so hot it once melted its
own
> oil lines....guides never moved though!) without problems.
>
> Now we have "ignition timing" causing engines to break?
> Frank
Message 16
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| Subject: | Stratus Valve guide failures (water Cooling) |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Gary Gower <ggower_99@yahoo.com>
One idea for the 601 Stratus builders, We were looking the other day to
several WW II planes (P51, etc) in a book, I saw a beautifull Spitfire.
What is important with this airplane (that might help you) is that they
have the radiators on the root of the wing, instead that below the
fuselage like the P 51... In the thecnical information they mention
that in this position the rads recieve better amount of air from the
prop, mainly while taxing, and that they are more aerodinamic.
Just an idea, I am building a 701, so I havent made further research,
just give a look to a Spitfire and start from there, hope this helps.
Saludos
Gary Gower
--- "HINDE,FRANK (HP-Corvallis,ex1)" <frank.hinde@hp.com> wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "HINDE,FRANK (HP-Corvallis,ex1)"
> <frank.hinde@hp.com>
>
> Engine temps perfectly normal (of course). After it happened twice
> you can
> bet I did not even time the engine without the prop on to provide
> cooling. I
> have never allowed the engine temp to exceed 210 degrees.
>
> To be fair, MAYBE.. There is a high combustion temp/detonation
> problem
> (that's what the head shop guy told Stratus, hence the desire to fit
> an EGT
> to prove/disprove this theory) Either way the cost is down to me,
> Stratus
> did upgrade my old heads to the new design after a knurled guide (a
> common
> machine shop botch that apparently was done before Stratus got the
> heads)
> for free.
>
> If you are having overheating with only 70 degrees outside then your
> cooling
> is not working very well, mine works to about 95. If you have the
> standard
> ZAC cooling system it does not work very well in any case as the rad
> is too
> close to the prop. Most of the air is swishing sideways across the
> front of
> the rad rather than being forced backwards thru the rad.
>
> Hence it does not cool effectively....
>
> Welcome to homebuilding/experimenting
>
> Frank
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: The Meiste's [mailto:meiste@essex1.com]
> To: zenith-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Stratus Valve guide failures
>
>
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "The Meiste's" <meiste@essex1.com>
>
> Frank,
> Gads, that's really bad news, and I'm very sorry to heard you had
> this
> problem! Thanks for passing along this info to the rest of us. Can I
> ask
> what your temps were running when the failure occurred? I only have
> 31 hours
> on my Stratus (with new design guides) & all seems fine so far. Now
> that
> winter's here my temps are well within the limits, but very high if
> OAT is
> above 70 degrees. Let us know how thing turn out for you.
>
> Kelly
>
>
> > I just had a failure of one of Stratus's valve guides in my engine.
>
> > This
> is
> > the new style Phosphor bronze guides with a retaining clip.
>
>
> advertising on the Matronics Forums.
> Share: Share photos & files with other List members.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 17
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| Subject: | updated plans for 701 |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Randy L. Thwing" <n4546v@mindspring.com>
OK, I'm really trying to get restarted on my plans built 701 project. My
question is: How "seamless" are the new updated plans with the previous
version. When the 240 plus plans corrections were issued (followed by the
4th edition updated plans offering) there are a lot of parts made of thicker
metal, dimensions changed etc. If one has built mostly from the third
edition plans, can you just switch to all the updated dimensions and specs
and expect everything to (mostly) work out with your previous construction?
And,
Has anyone heard when (and if) 801 plans will be available as was once
announced?
Regards,
Randy L. Thwing, 701 plans
Message 18
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| Subject: | Stratus Valve guide failures (water Cooling) |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "HINDE,FRANK (HP-Corvallis,ex1)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
Of course you would start from a Spitfire...as an ex-pat Brit I Know they
are superior...:-)
Actually I have been looking at that idea (put a smaller thicker rad under
the right wing, this avoids hot air from the exhaust).
But sadly that was not the cause of the valve guide failures..
Frank
Do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: Gary Gower [mailto:ggower_99@yahoo.com]
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Stratus Valve guide failures (water Cooling)
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Gary Gower <ggower_99@yahoo.com>
One idea for the 601 Stratus builders, We were looking the other day to
several WW II planes (P51, etc) in a book, I saw a beautifull Spitfire.
What is important with this airplane (that might help you) is that they have
the radiators on the root of the wing, instead that below the fuselage like
the P 51... In the thecnical information they mention that in this position
the rads recieve better amount of air from the prop, mainly while taxing,
and that they are more aerodinamic.
Just an idea, I am building a 701, so I havent made further research, just
give a look to a Spitfire and start from there, hope this helps.
Saludos
Gary Gower
--- "HINDE,FRANK (HP-Corvallis,ex1)" <frank.hinde@hp.com> wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "HINDE,FRANK (HP-Corvallis,ex1)"
> <frank.hinde@hp.com>
>
> Engine temps perfectly normal (of course). After it happened twice you
> can bet I did not even time the engine without the prop on to provide
> cooling. I
> have never allowed the engine temp to exceed 210 degrees.
>
> To be fair, MAYBE.. There is a high combustion temp/detonation problem
> (that's what the head shop guy told Stratus, hence the desire to fit
> an EGT
> to prove/disprove this theory) Either way the cost is down to me,
> Stratus
> did upgrade my old heads to the new design after a knurled guide (a
> common
> machine shop botch that apparently was done before Stratus got the
> heads)
> for free.
>
> If you are having overheating with only 70 degrees outside then your
> cooling is not working very well, mine works to about 95. If you have
> the standard
> ZAC cooling system it does not work very well in any case as the rad
> is too
> close to the prop. Most of the air is swishing sideways across the
> front of
> the rad rather than being forced backwards thru the rad.
>
> Hence it does not cool effectively....
>
> Welcome to homebuilding/experimenting
>
> Frank
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: The Meiste's [mailto:meiste@essex1.com]
> To: zenith-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Stratus Valve guide failures
>
>
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "The Meiste's" <meiste@essex1.com>
>
> Frank,
> Gads, that's really bad news, and I'm very sorry to heard you had this
> problem! Thanks for passing along this info to the rest of us. Can I
> ask
> what your temps were running when the failure occurred? I only have
> 31 hours
> on my Stratus (with new design guides) & all seems fine so far. Now
> that
> winter's here my temps are well within the limits, but very high if
> OAT is
> above 70 degrees. Let us know how thing turn out for you.
>
> Kelly
>
>
> > I just had a failure of one of Stratus's valve guides in my engine.
>
> > This
> is
> > the new style Phosphor bronze guides with a retaining clip.
>
>
> advertising on the Matronics Forums.
> Share: Share photos & files with other List members.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
advertising on the Matronics Forums.
Share: Share photos & files with other List members.
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: Stratus Valve guide failures |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "The Meiste's" <meiste@essex1.com>
> I, too, hit the magic 230 a couple of times during my first 40 hours.
> The failure didn't come until after that. That may just be a precursor to
> the problem.
Great ... well thanks for the heads up.
> Like you, I don't take off until I get an engine temp to 180. I never
> have. But in the winter the temp will sometimes dip a little below this in
> flight when you pull back the power. This is when one occurred for me. The
> third was on climb out after pulling the power back and leveling off, with
a
> corresponding temp drop of about 5 or 10 degrees. Don
Don't think I have ever had much of a problem here, it's rare if mine drops
below 190.
My engine is still new & probably tight, I've been covering 2/3's of my
radiator exit
this winter to keep temps up a little.
Mine seems to run 200 on water, & 220 on oil with OAT around 30 degrees.
Kelly
601 HD 31 hrs, & counting
Message 20
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Nathan Free" <upnaway@tds.net>
Hello all,
Has anyone heard of anyone using the 914 turbo Rotax in a Zenair? Another kitplane
site was using it in one of their demos and the numbers were pretty good.
Just wondering.
Nate Free
Message 21
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| Subject: | Stratus Valve guide failures (water Cooling) |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Philip Polstra" <ppolstra@mindspring.com>
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "HINDE,FRANK (HP-Corvallis,ex1)"
<frank.hinde@hp.com>
>Actually I have been looking at that idea (put a smaller thicker rad under
>the right wing, this avoids hot air from the exhaust).
I've been thinking of getting a smaller radiator and mounting it further
back, perpendicular to the bottom of the plane and in a fiberclass cowling.
This should give maximum cooling, and less drag than the Zenith design.
I've never really been happy with this setup. Not only is the air through
the radiator turbulent, but the 90 degree bend it has to make insures that
only the last couple inches of radiator get any air through them.
Once I get around to doing that, I'll probably do something about the engine
cowling next. It doesn't fit right, and I don't like all the drag that I
know is being created by it either.
---
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: Stratus Valve guide failures |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "The Meiste's" <meiste@essex1.com>
If you have the standard
> ZAC cooling system it does not work very well in any case as the rad is
too
> close to the prop. Most of the air is swishing sideways across the front
of
> the rad rather than being forced backwards thru the rad.
>
> Hence it does not cool effectively....
Hi Frank,
I thought this was my problem originally when I started flying my plane &
temps were constantly on the climb.
I tapped a bunch of short yarn pieces to the underside of the cowl, &
radiator. Then I got a fool ..... aaaaa buddy of mine to climb under the
plane to get a look at the yarn as I gave her power (kids DON'T try this at
home). I had the gear blocked & brakes locked, & no matter what RPM my
friend said the yarn was for the most part straight back, showing air
flowing directly into the radiator???? Wish I had a photo to prove it!
Kelly
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: Stratus Valve guide failures |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Don Walker" <dwalk3dw@msn.com>
I moved my radiator back to improve the looks as much as anything, but it
did not help the cooling. With my exhaust in the center on my taildragger, I
think a lot of hot air goes through my radiator. Before I moved it, the
exhaust went below the mouth of the radiator and temps were actually cooler.
Don
----- Original Message -----
From: "The Meiste's" <meiste@essex1.com>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Stratus Valve guide failures
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "The Meiste's" <meiste@essex1.com>
>
> If you have the standard
> > ZAC cooling system it does not work very well in any case as the rad is
> too
> > close to the prop. Most of the air is swishing sideways across the front
> of
> > the rad rather than being forced backwards thru the rad.
> >
> > Hence it does not cool effectively....
>
>
> Hi Frank,
> I thought this was my problem originally when I started flying my plane &
> temps were constantly on the climb.
> I tapped a bunch of short yarn pieces to the underside of the cowl, &
> radiator. Then I got a fool ..... aaaaa buddy of mine to climb under the
> plane to get a look at the yarn as I gave her power (kids DON'T try this
at
> home). I had the gear blocked & brakes locked, & no matter what RPM my
> friend said the yarn was for the most part straight back, showing air
> flowing directly into the radiator???? Wish I had a photo to prove it!
>
> Kelly
>
>
Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: updated plans for 701 |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "JGJ" <johann@gi.is>
Hello Randy.
I am using the 4th edition of the plans, and have found some errors in them
also, and some confusing corrections, such as I mentioned on the list a few
days ago regarding the top skin length. ( 3070/3080mm)
If you have built your fuselage and wings according to the 3rd. edition with
out using any of the "SP" parts with thicker metal, and will not exceed the
design gross weight of 960 lbs. you will be all right.
But if you will use the heavier engines, such as 100hp Rotax, you will need
to upgrade to the 1100 lbs. gross weight.
The updates are: Wing spar structurally redesigned, Wing tanks dual 10 US
gallons and no header tank, All Terrain Tundra Gear, top-hinged door frames,
extended baggage area and a new formed windshield.
There are 29 changes to various parts that have been strengthened with
thicker material, and to change them all would just be too much work, imho.
A part I noticed to be different in the 4th edition is the 7H2-7 which is
the Stabilator rear bracket.
3rd edition is 165mm wide, but 4th. it is 170mm. If you have completed the
stabilator, it will need to be shimmed to fit the fuselage. There is also a
small change in the angle of the bend.
Should be 81 instead of 82. Noting to worry about.
At my stage of the building, this is the only thing I can help you with, if
it is any help.
Best wishes,
Your friend Johann from Iceland.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Randy L. Thwing" <n4546v@mindspring.com>
Subject: Zenith-List: updated plans for 701
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Randy L. Thwing"
<n4546v@mindspring.com>
>
> OK, I'm really trying to get restarted on my plans built 701 project. My
> question is: How "seamless" are the new updated plans with the previous
> version. When the 240 plus plans corrections were issued (followed by the
> 4th edition updated plans offering) there are a lot of parts made of
thicker
> metal, dimensions changed etc. If one has built mostly from the third
> edition plans, can you just switch to all the updated dimensions and specs
> and expect everything to (mostly) work out with your previous
construction?
>
> And,
>
> Has anyone heard when (and if) 801 plans will be available as was once
> announced?
>
> Regards,
> Randy L. Thwing, 701 plans
>
>
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