Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 01:57 AM - Re: Stratus Valve guide failures (water Cooling) (Dr. Perry Morrison)
2. 03:06 AM - HVLP Spray Gun (Brandon Tucker)
3. 05:42 AM - Wing Rad...? (water Cooling) (Grant Corriveau)
4. 08:20 AM - Re: Stratus Valve guide failures (John Karnes)
5. 09:57 AM - building (Dabusmith@aol.com)
6. 11:22 AM - engine cooling (Edward T. Jeffko)
7. 12:37 PM - Re: building (Leo Gates)
8. 01:17 PM - Re: Rotax 914 (mark.townsend)
9. 02:41 PM - Re: HVLP Spray Gun (Gary Gower)
10. 03:42 PM - Re: engine cooling (billvt@together.net)
11. 06:06 PM - Re: HVLP Spray Gun (Greg Ferris)
12. 11:36 PM - Re: HVLP Spray Gun (paint cabin) (Gary Gower)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Stratus Valve guide failures (water Cooling) |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dr. Perry Morrison" <prm@softhome.net>
----- Original Message -----
From: "Philip Polstra" <ppolstra@mindspring.com>
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Stratus Valve guide failures (water Cooling)
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Philip Polstra"
<ppolstra@mindspring.com>
>
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "HINDE,FRANK (HP-Corvallis,ex1)"
> <frank.hinde@hp.com>
>
> >Actually I have been looking at that idea (put a smaller thicker rad
under
> >the right wing, this avoids hot air from the exhaust).
>
> I've been thinking of getting a smaller radiator and mounting it further
> back, perpendicular to the bottom of the plane and in a fiberclass
cowling.
> This should give maximum cooling, and less drag than the Zenith design.
>
> I've never really been happy with this setup. Not only is the air through
> the radiator turbulent, but the 90 degree bend it has to make insures that
> only the last couple inches of radiator get any air through them.
My radiator is just behind the firewall on the belly of the plane. It's
angled
slightly downwards and essentially blocked at the rear. This creates an
enormous "ram" air effect forcing air down thru the radiator. Draggy I
guess.
I live in Darwin and have never had any probs with water temp on the
hottest days. Oil temp is a different matter and I had to install a scoop
for the internally mounted oil cooler on my 912. Otherwise she would head
to the yellow on a very long climb. No problems now.
Perry Morrison
>
>
Message 2
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: Brandon Tucker <btucke73@yahoo.com>
I bought the inexpensive HLVP from harbor freight. It worked like a champ on my
off road race car. Like all spray guns, they are only as good as previous clean
up. I have never had a problem with the plastic cup leaking, and like that
you can see through it for paint level. Check out the following link, they
also sell the devilbiss if for $169.00 If I didn't have an expensive wife,
I would probably get the expensive one!
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Category.taf?CategoryID=324&pricetype
Brandon
---------------------------------
Message 3
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| Subject: | Wing Rad...? (water Cooling) |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Grant Corriveau <grantC@ca.inter.net>
on 03/01/24 18:53, HINDE,FRANK (HP-Corvallis,ex1) at frank.hinde@hp.com
wrote:
> Actually I have been looking at that idea (put a smaller thicker rad under
> the right wing, this avoids hot air from the exhaust).
Hey Frank,
Glad to hear from you on the list again -- sorry to hear about the problem.
I'm currently debugging an ingnition problem on my CAM100, so I can
emphathize with your 'welcome to the world of homebuilt/experimental
aviation' remark!
I've also been looking at the concept of mounting the rad in the wing root
ala the Spitfire (also ME109 to compare how 'the other side' did it). While
my nose rad has worked fine so far, I don't like it mounted to the engine
(vibrations), and I don't like having the hot air dumped into my engine
cowling adding to component heat.
I don't have any specific plans on how a wing-mounted rad would go yet, but
if you ever get to working that as a project, please let me know - I'll do
the same. One thing I've thougth about - with the relatively thick wing root
on the Zodiac, the rad could probably be completely buried, with only a very
small scoop/inlet required - i.e. reduced drag...
Secondly - to Steve Freeman - after working out the bugs in my CAM100, and
watching fellow Zodiac-flyer Tony Colucci working out problems on his Soob
(not Stratus) conversion, I've come to this conclusion. IF you are an
egine/mechanical oriented person, auto conversions are fine. IF NOT (i.e.
me) install a well-proven AIRCRAFT engine that has a long history and
service record behind it (i.e. Rotax, Continental, Lycoming, -- and maybe
Jabiru?)... That way you'll have a world of other expeirence and A.D.s to
draw upon, and you'll be able to drop the aircraft at the local airport FBO
for engine service. This is just my current opinion. A good part of me is
wishing I'd forgone the autoconversion route because I'm NOT and engine-guy.
But, I DID want an learning experience, and I'm certainly getting THAT! ;-)
Regards,
Grant
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Stratus Valve guide failures |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "John Karnes" <jpkarnes@charter.net>
> I moved my radiator back to improve the looks as much as anything, but it
> did not help the cooling. Before I moved it, the
> exhaust went below the mouth of the radiator and temps were actually
cooler.
> Don
Ditto. After doing research about the "pulsing effects" on the air behind
the prop, I moved the rad back on the fuselage to get "undisturbed air" to
go through it. With OAT about 60 deg F, I had poor cooling and an eventual
valve guide slip, loss of coolant, and warped heads. On top of that, I had
to make an "unscheduled" landing and had to trailer it back home. I cost me
over $2100 for repairs. At this point, I'm not sure if I am going to keep
the current location or move it back to the original location behind the
prop...
John Karnes
Port Orchard, WA
Message 5
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: Dabusmith@aol.com
Just want to check in. I have moved to south Seattle, Puyallop area. I am
sharing a rental house with two other airline mechanics. This place has a wet
bar, dance floor and a 120 deg. view of the cascades. We could have used a
place like this in our younger days! I am set up with a nice garage to
finish my plane.
I would like to meet builders in the area and join the local EAA chapter here
if anyone has info.
All the best,
Dave Smith
701SP 912S, engine mounted
Graham, WA. previously Atlanta GA
>do not archive<
Message 6
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Edward T. Jeffko" <riovista@bossig.com>
I have been following the discussion on cooling, or lack thereof. Any
cooling system that will cool at 30 oat and is marginal at best at 90 oat is
not a very effective system. After all, do you not drive a car when it's
very warm and not experience overheating, providing the system is
functioning properly?
There has been discussion obout placing the radiator in different positions
relative to the prop, to no avail. Nowhere have I read of a properly
engineered cooling exhaust, or the intake /exhaust area ratio vs. airspeed.
To prove a point, cruise a convential auto down a flat stretch of highway
with the fan removed. Likely it will not overheat, as there is enough air
being forced through the radiator to keep the engine cool at that low power
setting. Now you come to a steep hill, all bets are off. You increase
power, develope more heat, and watch the temp. gauge climb. The fan is in
the radiator exhaust to create a low pressure area. Where is your fan ?
You have none. But you do have a foward speed, with both high and low
pressure areas. Divert the hot air to a low pressure area. Remember wing
windows in cars? Very effective in removing cigarette smoke.
Contact! magazine has some very well written articles on liquid cooling. I
highly recommend subscribing, and purchasing back issues.
http://www.ContactMagazine.com
Ed Jeffko
Message 7
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: Leo Gates <leogates@ev1.net>
Dave,
Go to http://home1.gte.net/ikvamar/eaa26.html. This is the home page
for EAA Seattle Chapter 26.
If this is not the closest to you, they can advise you.
Welcome to the list.
Do not archive.
Leo Gates
Dabusmith@aol.com wrote:
>--> Zenith-List message posted by: Dabusmith@aol.com
>
>
>I would like to meet builders in the area and join the local EAA chapter here
>if anyone has info.
>
>All the best,
>
>Dave Smith
>701SP 912S, engine mounted
>Graham, WA. previously Atlanta GA
>
>
>
>>do not archive
>>
>>
>
>
>.
>
>
>
Message 8
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "mark.townsend" <601xl@sympatico.ca>
Art Mitchell used a 914 on a 601HD amphib a few years ago. You can contact
him at www.flypass.com
Mark
----- Original Message -----
From: "Nathan Free" <upnaway@tds.net>
Subject: Zenith-List: Rotax 914
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Nathan Free" <upnaway@tds.net>
>
> Hello all,
>
> Has anyone heard of anyone using the 914 turbo Rotax in a Zenair? Another
kitplane site was using it in one of their demos and the numbers were pretty
good. Just wondering.
>
> Nate Free
>
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: HVLP Spray Gun |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Gary Gower <ggower_99@yahoo.com>
Same happens to me, we have 4 inexpensive paint guns working full time
in our plant (to shifts of 8 hours, monday to friday), they dont leak,
one 5th was trashed because the painter left it charged for a week end,
cleaning it (time invested) was more expensive than buying a new one,
with this price, even the worker kept his job :-)
We have a few "chinesse" tools in our plane shop (not in our factory),
the older ones have almost 3 years and work fine, normal homebuilder
work, the only one that failed very soon was a Dremmel type grinder,
just a little bigger, in a few hours start to vibrate as it was a two
cycle engine :-) most tools cost about 30% of the price of a good one
or less and for me they work fine.
Saludos
Gary Gower
Do not archive.
--- Brandon Tucker <btucke73@yahoo.com> wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Brandon Tucker
> <btucke73@yahoo.com>
>
>
> I bought the inexpensive HLVP from harbor freight. It worked like a
> champ on my off road race car. Like all spray guns, they are only as
> good as previous clean up. I have never had a problem with the
> plastic cup leaking, and like that you can see through it for paint
> level. Check out the following link, they also sell the devilbiss if
> for $169.00 If I didn't have an expensive wife, I would probably
> get the expensive one!
>
>
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Category.taf?CategoryID=324&pricetype
>
> Brandon
>
>
> ---------------------------------
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 10
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "billvt@together.net" <billvt@together.net>
I have a Stratus Soob and don't have a cooling problem unless you count the
fact that it cools too much in the winter.
I have flown in temps from 8 deg f to > 90 deg f with no problems. I have
my radiator in the standard ZAC location.
One thing I do have that I believe helps my cooling is a heater core. I
have an auto heater core mounted under the cowl to provide cabin heat. Air
enters a CAT hose just behind the prop, goes through the heater core and
then to a plenum at the firewall. The air always goes through the heater
core and out the plenum. A flapper valve in the plenum allows me to divert
the heat into the cabin or not. When the flapper is closed, the hot air is
just exhausting out the bottom.
I think this extra little piece of radiator augments the standard radiator
to keep my engine temps in line.
Just my opinion
Also sealing all leaks on the main rad (sides and back) helps increase
cooling efficiency.
Regards,
Bill
I have been following the discussion on cooling, or lack thereof. Any
cooling system that will cool at 30 oat and is marginal at best at 90 oat is
not a very effective system. After all, do you not drive a car when it's
very warm and not experience overheating, providing the system is
functioning properly?
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: HVLP Spray Gun |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Greg Ferris" <ferret@wmtel.net>
I have a question for those of you who have painted your planes. From what
I read, the polyurethane paints are what are best to be used. However in
literature, these paints state that you must make an enclosed paint booth
and have a fresh air breathing system. Looking at the cost of equipment, it
doesn't appear to make sense to buy all of this equipment and use it only
once.
Does the use of a HVLP spray gun negate some of these needs because there is
less overspray? I got a quote to have a paint job done at $3500 and choked,
but if I have to spend over $1000 in equipment to do it myself, I'm tempted
to have it done because it will be a better paint job (I've never painted
anything).
I need some advice to help me make a good decision! Thanks
Greg
----- Original Message -----
From: "Brandon Tucker" <btucke73@yahoo.com>
Subject: Zenith-List: HVLP Spray Gun
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Brandon Tucker <btucke73@yahoo.com>
>
>
> I bought the inexpensive HLVP from harbor freight. It worked like a champ
on my off road race car. Like all spray guns, they are only as good as
previous clean up. I have never had a problem with the plastic cup leaking,
and like that you can see through it for paint level. Check out the
following link, they also sell the devilbiss if for $169.00 If I didn't
have an expensive wife, I would probably get the expensive one!
>
>
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Category.taf?CategoryID=324&pricetype
>
> Brandon
>
>
> ---------------------------------
>
>
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: HVLP Spray Gun (paint cabin) |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Gary Gower <ggower_99@yahoo.com>
The more inexpensive way to do it (homebuilder type) is making a "box"
big enough to walk around the bigger parts to be painted (fuselage and
wings) out of 2x2's, then cover it with clear "plastic" film (dont know
the name in english) not too thin, with straples and duct tape.
If "built" indoors or near a neighbor house, you need a filter where
the air comes out of the cabin. This cabin is inexpensive and the
"film" can be trashed when the work is done, save the wood for future
projects or recycle it betwen builders of the Club...
When the box is finished, we found a second hand blower, used for those
inflatable advertisements. Well, with 6" PVC tubes, we guided the
intake of air to the top center of the "box" cabin, we made a "bypass"
betwen the blower and the PVC tubes (same material as the inflatables)
to control the volume of air in the cabin (open or close a bypass
"sleeve" exhaust with a rope as needed). The blower was in the oposite
side of the window and in the wind side of the cabin (our was outdoor
below a big tree), so no "painted air" was recicled inside.
Now the "respirator": we used a normal filter that covers the mouth
and nose (the ones that have a replasable round filter element) we
unscrew the element and fixed a 1/4" clear hose there with duct tape,
in the other side we atthached the hose to the aircompressor with a
"T", in the "T" side of the respirator hose we attached a little
inexpensive air pressure regulator and closed it until the volume of
air was confortable inside the mask. This way we breath the air from
the aircompressor that (of course) was outside the cabin.
Using a HVLP paint gun the volune of overpray is minimal, even so at
each refill of the gun, we waited until there was no overspray and the
"smell" outside the cabin was acceptable, before we get inside the
cabin the next time. The mask was fit and removed from our face always
ouside the cabin.
We also used sealed cheap eye goggles, a new one every few paint
refils, also used a overall and a cloth hood covering the remaining
face and the head. The air from the PVC keept the cabin cool enough
with all the covering we used.
Even with all this cares, the smell of paint lasted several days in the
cabin before the plane was finished, (thas time we used the polyfiber
products in a Kitfox 6)
This is what we did, use it at your own risk, maybe was safe enough, I
dont know the diference in protection compared to professional
equipment, as I have only looked at them in photos...
Hope this helps.
Saludos
Gary Gower
PS. By the way, in my next plane, I covered it, using The Latex paint
method, one year later looks perfect, Great diference: No smell,
cleaned the "equipment" (foam brushes) and thinned the paint with
drinking water, perfect finish, etc.
BUT maybe will not work (I think) in our aluminum planes..., this is
our first metal plane...
Gary Gower.
--- Greg Ferris <ferret@wmtel.net> wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Greg Ferris" <ferret@wmtel.net>
>
> I have a question for those of you who have painted your planes.
> From what
> I read, the polyurethane paints are what are best to be used.
> However in
> literature, these paints state that you must make an enclosed paint
> booth
> and have a fresh air breathing system. Looking at the cost of
> equipment, it
> doesn't appear to make sense to buy all of this equipment and use it
> only
> once.
>
> Does the use of a HVLP spray gun negate some of these needs because
> there is
> less overspray? I got a quote to have a paint job done at $3500 and
> choked,
> but if I have to spend over $1000 in equipment to do it myself, I'm
> tempted
> to have it done because it will be a better paint job (I've never
> painted
> anything).
>
> I need some advice to help me make a good decision! Thanks
> Greg
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Brandon Tucker" <btucke73@yahoo.com>
> To: <zenith-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Zenith-List: HVLP Spray Gun
>
>
> > --> Zenith-List message posted by: Brandon Tucker
> <btucke73@yahoo.com>
> >
> >
> > I bought the inexpensive HLVP from harbor freight. It worked like
> a champ
> on my off road race car. Like all spray guns, they are only as good
> as
> previous clean up. I have never had a problem with the plastic cup
> leaking,
> and like that you can see through it for paint level. Check out the
> following link, they also sell the devilbiss if for $169.00 If I
> didn't
> have an expensive wife, I would probably get the expensive one!
> >
> >
>
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Category.taf?CategoryID=324&pricetype
> >
> > Brandon
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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