---------------------------------------------------------- Zenith-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sun 01/26/03: 15 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 04:52 AM - Re: HVLP Spray Gun (paint cabin) (JNBOLDING1) 2. 08:44 AM - Re: HVLP Spray Gun (paint cabin) (CLOJAN@aol.com) 3. 09:02 AM - Re: Stratus Valve guide failures (STEFREE@aol.com) 4. 10:10 AM - Re: HVLP Spray Gun (paint cabin) (Gary Gower) 5. 10:32 AM - Re: HVLP Spray Gun (paint cabin) (ac6qj@earthlink.net) 6. 01:12 PM - 801 fuel tank venting (Garrou, Douglas) 7. 01:46 PM - Re: 801 fuel tank venting (Bryan Martin) 8. 02:05 PM - Re: 801 fuel tank venting (Steve Danielson) 9. 02:17 PM - Re: 801 fuel tank venting (Greg Ferris) 10. 02:28 PM - CH-300 (Jeff Paden) 11. 02:30 PM - Re: 801 fuel tank venting (Jim Frisby) 12. 02:47 PM - Re: 801 fuel tank venting (Bob & Karen Risch) 13. 02:49 PM - Re: 801 fuel tank venting (Bill Morelli) 14. 08:24 PM - Re: 801 fuel tank venting (Gary Gower) 15. 11:53 PM - Re: 801 fuel tank venting (Phil & Michele Miller) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 04:52:30 AM PST US From: "JNBOLDING1" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: HVLP Spray Gun (paint cabin) --> Zenith-List message posted by: "JNBOLDING1" >The more inexpensive way to do it (homebuilder type) is making a "box" >big enough to walk around the bigger parts to be painted (fuselage and >wings) out of 2x2's, then cover it with clear "plastic" film (dont know >the name in english) not too thin, with straples and duct tape. > >If "built" indoors or near a neighbor house, you need a filter where >the air comes out of the cabin. This cabin is inexpensive and the >"film" can be trashed when the work is done, save the wood for future >projects or recycle it betwen builders of the Club... > >When the box is finished, we found a second hand blower, used for those >inflatable advertisements. Well, with 6" PVC tubes, we guided the >intake of air to the top center of the "box" cabin, we made a "bypass" >betwen the blower and the PVC tubes (same material as the inflatables) >to control the volume of air in the cabin (open or close a bypass >"sleeve" exhaust with a rope as needed). The blower was in the oposite >side of the window and in the wind side of the cabin (our was outdoor >below a big tree), so no "painted air" was recicled inside. > >Now the "respirator": we used a normal filter that covers the mouth >and nose (the ones that have a replasable round filter element) we >unscrew the element and fixed a 1/4" clear hose there with duct tape, >in the other side we atthached the hose to the aircompressor with a >"T", in the "T" side of the respirator hose we attached a little >inexpensive air pressure regulator and closed it until the volume of >air was confortable inside the mask. This way we breath the air from >the aircompressor that (of course) was outside the cabin. > >Using a HVLP paint gun the volune of overpray is minimal, even so at >each refill of the gun, we waited until there was no overspray and the >"smell" outside the cabin was acceptable, before we get inside the >cabin the next time. The mask was fit and removed from our face always >ouside the cabin. > >We also used sealed cheap eye goggles, a new one every few paint >refils, also used a overall and a cloth hood covering the remaining >face and the head. The air from the PVC keept the cabin cool enough >with all the covering we used. > >Even with all this cares, the smell of paint lasted several days in the >cabin before the plane was finished, (thas time we used the polyfiber >products in a Kitfox 6) > >This is what we did, use it at your own risk, maybe was safe enough, I >dont know the diference in protection compared to professional >equipment, as I have only looked at them in photos... PS. By the way, in my next plane, I covered it, using The Latex paint >method, one year later looks perfect, Great diference: No smell, >cleaned the "equipment" (foam brushes) and thinned the paint with >drinking water, perfect finish, etc. The "booth" described above is the safest way to build your own one shot paint booth. Sold, designed and installed about a thousand of them and even the pro models catch fire or explode sometimes. The MOST IMPORTANT feature of the homemade booth is the fan. Because of the fact that the fan used on a code compliant booth has a non sparking blade and the motor is COMPLETLY out of the airstream( Explosion Proof not good enough) the ONLY safe way to do it without a code compliant fan is to use the blower or fan to pust air INTO the booth that way you're not dragging explosives directly over a sparking ,hot motor. It's exactly the same thing that happens every power stroke in every cylinder, the only thing missing is compression and having the proper mixture. Keep all lights outside the plastic shinning thru, the temp is generally above the flash point of the paint. Investigated several booth fires over 33 yr period and they are impressive. If using polyurethane paints, buy or rent a fresh air system. The polyisocyanide is cumulative and just like epoxy on skin everybody has a different tolerance before symptoms. Even with none the stuff is MUCHO BAD for your lungs. LOW &SLOW John ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 08:44:07 AM PST US From: CLOJAN@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: HVLP Spray Gun (paint cabin) --> Zenith-List message posted by: CLOJAN@aol.com In a message dated 1/25/2003 11:37:23 PM Pacific Standard Time, ggower_99@yahoo.com writes: > This way we breath the air from > the aircompressor that (of course) was outside the cabin. > Gary: I have seen your "cabin" before in operation and I think it is the way I will paint our XL when the time comes. I have heard that breathing air from a regular compressor can be a problem with oil in the air. I have seen a mask system as you described using a hair drier ( on cold air setting) with the hose coming off of the end. What do you think? Jack Russell- Clovis CA XL stabilizer about done- On to the wings! ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 09:02:28 AM PST US From: STEFREE@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Stratus Valve guide failures --> Zenith-List message posted by: STEFREE@aol.com I have been following this recent thread very closely and with great concern. With no disrespect intended the ground temperatures (ambient air) discussed are a joke to what we experience here in the summer. This is why I have been so worried. In the summer we will regularly see 120+ degrees on the radiated heat from the ramp, and at 5,000 feet, OAT can still be in the low 100's. Is anyone else flying the Stratus Soob in these kind of conditions? If so what is your experience? Steve (gonna try and get air bubbles out the brakes today)Freeman PS, I've been on the list for 5 years and correctly picked the SuperBowl each of 5 years. Check the Archives! My Prediction for today is Raiders 31, Buc's 24. However, what is a superbowl without the Bills! (Don't say a good game!) ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 10:10:25 AM PST US From: Gary Gower Subject: Re: Zenith-List: HVLP Spray Gun (paint cabin) --> Zenith-List message posted by: Gary Gower I think is fine, the only problem is the volume of air (enough) and the diameter (flexibility) of the hose. For the 701 we are looking at a new kleen wet &dry vacum (the other side), maybe it will work better, I will look to import (or copy, reverse enginering :-) a mask from internet, because with the old mask is a little unconfortable to control the airflow correctly... Any leads appreciated. I am aware of the poison of the fumes. Saludos Gary Gower --- CLOJAN@aol.com wrote: > --> Zenith-List message posted by: CLOJAN@aol.com > > In a message dated 1/25/2003 11:37:23 PM Pacific Standard Time, > ggower_99@yahoo.com writes: > > > > This way we breath the air from > > the aircompressor that (of course) was outside the cabin. > > > > Gary: I have seen your "cabin" before in operation and I think it is > the way > I will paint our XL when the time comes. I have heard that breathing > air from > a regular compressor can be a problem with oil in the air. I have > seen a mask > system as you described using a hair drier ( on cold air setting) > with the > hose coming off of the end. What do you think? > Jack Russell- Clovis CA > XL stabilizer about done- On to the wings! > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 10:32:21 AM PST US From: ac6qj@earthlink.net Subject: Re: Zenith-List: HVLP Spray Gun (paint cabin) --> Zenith-List message posted by: ac6qj@earthlink.net >I have heard that breathing air from >a regular compressor can be a problem with oil in the air. Yes, this can be very bad! There are dry compressors that do not present this problem. Compressors used to fill SCUBA tanks or Hooka Compressors (surface fed low pressure compressors) are among those that do not present risk imposed by gasses not intended for our consumption. Regardless of the configuration, the compressed air needs to be regulated to "breathing pressure". -- Best Regards, Ray Montagne Zenith Aircraft Zodiac CH-601-XL builder #4939 Construction Log & Photos: ZAC Builder Profile: Build Status: Empenage completed ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 01:12:24 PM PST US From: "Garrou, Douglas" Subject: Zenith-List: 801 fuel tank venting --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Garrou, Douglas" Hi all -- Came across this NTSB report on the crash of an 801 (below). In light of this, does anyone have thoughts about whether to use the vented fuel tank caps supplied with the 801? Has anyone tested them in various "flight attitudes"? Do other Zenith models use these caps? Etc. The NTSB concluded that the aircraft lost power for "unknown reasons." Unfortunately I think this translates as "it's a homebuilt and we don't really care." Or maybe "this guy just ran out of gas." Cheers, Doug G. FTW02LA035 On November 10, 2001, at 1500 central standard time, a Terry Zenith 801 amateur-built airplane, N54RX, was substantially damaged during a forced landing following a loss of engine power near Manvel, Texas. The airplane was registered to and operated by the pilot. The private pilot, sole occupant, was not injured. Visual meteorological conditions prevailed, and a flight plan was not filed for the 14 Code of Federal Regulations Part 91 personal flight. The flight originated from the Clover Field Airport, Friendswood, Texas, at 1410. The airplane was maneuvering west of Rosharon, Texas, at 1,500 feet msl, at a slow airspeed for 7-8 minutes when the engine lost power. The pilot switched fuel tanks and restarted the engine. The pilot then continued the flight toward the Wolfe Air Park Airport (3T2) located 2 miles northeast of Manvel. Prior to reaching 3T2, the engine again lost power. According to the pilot, "both tanks indicated 1/4+ in fuel quantity." The pilot initiated a forced landing to Highway 6 south of Manvel. Due to traffic on the highway, the pilot had to delay the landing, which resulted in the airplane continuing towards power lines. As the pilot "quickly landed the airplane," the nose landing gear collapsed, and the airplane came to a stop upright on the highway. Examination of the airplane by the FAA inspector, who responded to the accident site, revealed that the firewall was buckled, the nose landing gear was folded under the airplane, and one propeller blade was bent aft. The pilot reported that during the examination of the airplane, "3 inches of fuel was found in both of the fuel tanks, and over 15 gallons of fuel was drained from the airplane. Upon further inspection of the fuel system, no blockages were found in the fuel lines, and the gascolator was clean." The pilot suspects that a vacuum was created in both of the fuel tanks, since there were no fuel tank vents, except for the vents in the fuel caps. The airplane had accumulated 5 hours at the time of the accident. ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 01:46:16 PM PST US From: Bryan Martin Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 801 fuel tank venting --> Zenith-List message posted by: Bryan Martin > Came across this NTSB report on the crash of an 801 (below). In light of > this, does anyone have thoughts about whether to use the vented fuel tank > caps supplied with the 801? Has anyone tested them in various "flight > attitudes"? Do other Zenith models use these caps? Etc. > The caps supplied with my 601XL were this type. I plan to try welding a tube to the cap that faces forward into the airstream to get some ram air pressure into the vent. -- Bryan Martin N61BM, CH 601 XL, Stratus Subaru. Airframe construction complete. Working on instrument panel, electrical and interior. do not archive. ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 02:05:23 PM PST US From: "Steve Danielson" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 801 fuel tank venting --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Steve Danielson" > The NTSB concluded that the aircraft lost power for "unknown reasons." > Unfortunately I think this translates as "it's a homebuilt and we don't > really care." Or maybe "this guy just ran out of gas." > My opinion is "it's just a homebuilt and we don't really care" My 701 went down a couple years ago, (nobody hurt) forced landing in a small field, because the plane ran out of gas. NOTE: (here come the obligatory excuses...) At the origination of the flight, the tank was full and there should have been plenty of gas to complete the flight. My fuel burn projections were backed up by 6 months of tracking the fuel burn on every flight. The fuel simply was used up well before it should have. The NTSB looked at my sheet and said: You're right, you shouldn't have ran out of gas. Fuel starvation for undetermined reasons. Then the FAA said: No, you should have noticed the fuel was lower than it should have been, and they changed it to the standard fuel mismanagement etc. Neither one seemed to really be interested in finding out where the fuel really went (either through leaks or some fault that caused the abnormally high fuel burn, and we are talking almsot a 50% increase in gph consumption over the course of the flight.) Here is a link to the ntsb report of my incident online: http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id=20001212X21071&key=1 Here's another 701, built around the same time as mine (1990'ish) that had a similar occurrence some years back, due to the failure of the fuel drain: http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id=20001212X22871&key=1 In this case too, there is a note stating the "pilot's disregarding the fuel supply" My 701 didn't have the sight guage, and the electric guage was all over the place and so a digital timer in the cockpit was my "fuel guage", was reset to 0 every time I refueled. So some lessons I learned from this were: Need a reliable fuel guage system that measures the fuel in the tank, not gallons burned, fuel flow, etc (although those too are useful) and don't rely solely on timers or other methods that do not measure the remaining fuel. Steve do not archive ----- Original Message ----- From: "Garrou, Douglas" Subject: Zenith-List: 801 fuel tank venting > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Garrou, Douglas" > > Hi all -- > > Came across this NTSB report on the crash of an 801 (below). In light of > this, does anyone have thoughts about whether to use the vented fuel tank > caps supplied with the 801? Has anyone tested them in various "flight > attitudes"? Do other Zenith models use these caps? Etc. > > The NTSB concluded that the aircraft lost power for "unknown reasons." > Unfortunately I think this translates as "it's a homebuilt and we don't > really care." Or maybe "this guy just ran out of gas." > > Cheers, > Doug G. > > FTW02LA035 > On November 10, 2001, at 1500 central standard time, a Terry Zenith 801 > amateur-built airplane, N54RX, was substantially damaged during a forced > landing following a loss of engine power near Manvel, Texas. The airplane > was registered to and operated by the pilot. The private pilot, sole > occupant, was not injured. Visual meteorological conditions prevailed, and a > flight plan was not filed for the 14 Code of Federal Regulations Part 91 > personal flight. The flight originated from the Clover Field Airport, > Friendswood, Texas, at 1410. > > The airplane was maneuvering west of Rosharon, Texas, at 1,500 feet msl, at > a slow airspeed for 7-8 minutes when the engine lost power. The pilot > switched fuel tanks and restarted the engine. The pilot then continued the > flight toward the Wolfe Air Park Airport (3T2) located 2 miles northeast of > Manvel. Prior to reaching 3T2, the engine again lost power. According to the > pilot, "both tanks indicated 1/4+ in fuel quantity." The pilot initiated a > forced landing to Highway 6 south of Manvel. Due to traffic on the highway, > the pilot had to delay the landing, which resulted in the airplane > continuing towards power lines. As the pilot "quickly landed the airplane," > the nose landing gear collapsed, and the airplane came to a stop upright on > the highway. > > Examination of the airplane by the FAA inspector, who responded to the > accident site, revealed that the firewall was buckled, the nose landing gear > was folded under the airplane, and one propeller blade was bent aft. > > The pilot reported that during the examination of the airplane, "3 inches of > fuel was found in both of the fuel tanks, and over 15 gallons of fuel was > drained from the airplane. Upon further inspection of the fuel system, no > blockages were found in the fuel lines, and the gascolator was clean." The > pilot suspects that a vacuum was created in both of the fuel tanks, since > there were no fuel tank vents, except for the vents in the fuel caps. > > The airplane had accumulated 5 hours at the time of the accident. > > ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 02:17:28 PM PST US From: "Greg Ferris" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 801 fuel tank venting --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Greg Ferris" I haven't had any problems with the vented caps "as-is" from Zenith. Since both tanks locked, one would suspect a blockage elsewhere, or a problem with the fuel selector switch. Greg ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bryan Martin" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 801 fuel tank venting > --> Zenith-List message posted by: Bryan Martin > > > Came across this NTSB report on the crash of an 801 (below). In light of > > this, does anyone have thoughts about whether to use the vented fuel tank > > caps supplied with the 801? Has anyone tested them in various "flight > > attitudes"? Do other Zenith models use these caps? Etc. > > > > The caps supplied with my 601XL were this type. I plan to try welding a tube > to the cap that faces forward into the airstream to get some ram air > pressure into the vent. > > > -- > Bryan Martin > N61BM, CH 601 XL, Stratus Subaru. > Airframe construction complete. > Working on instrument panel, electrical and interior. > do not archive. > ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 02:28:31 PM PST US From: "Jeff Paden" Subject: Zenith-List: CH-300 --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jeff Paden" Hello, if any of you are flying a CH-300 or know of anyone who has one can you please contact me off the list at jeffpaden@madbbs.com I have been flying mine for over a year now and have never seen another one at any of the flyins or air shows that I have visited. I'd just like to know if there are any more of these in the air or if I am the only one that has one still other than the one that is in the Canada Aviation Museum. I am trying to find seats for her... I know I can build my own, but I am looking for a more professional look and feel. Thank you all Jeff Paden ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 02:30:36 PM PST US From: "Jim Frisby" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 801 fuel tank venting --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jim Frisby" I'm building a CH801 also. I flew a lot of hours in a Piper Pa-22/20, with just the vented caps, it never caused me a problem. I hope that's the case with the ch801 too, since I have built it with just the vented caps. I guess that the operative thing is to treat those test flight hours seriously, and plan for an emergency at all times. I think I heard that something like 70% of homebuilt accidents are caused by fuel system problems in the first few hours. Jim Frisby Palmer, AK >From: "Garrou, Douglas" >Reply-To: zenith-list@matronics.com >To: "'zenith-list@matronics.com'" >Subject: Zenith-List: 801 fuel tank venting >Date: Sun, 26 Jan 2003 16:10:45 -0500 > >--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Garrou, Douglas" > >Hi all -- > >Came across this NTSB report on the crash of an 801 (below). In light of >this, does anyone have thoughts about whether to use the vented fuel tank >caps supplied with the 801? Has anyone tested them in various "flight >attitudes"? Do other Zenith models use these caps? Etc. > >The NTSB concluded that the aircraft lost power for "unknown reasons." >Unfortunately I think this translates as "it's a homebuilt and we don't >really care." Or maybe "this guy just ran out of gas." > >Cheers, >Doug G. > >FTW02LA035 >On November 10, 2001, at 1500 central standard time, a Terry Zenith 801 >amateur-built airplane, N54RX, was substantially damaged during a forced >landing following a loss of engine power near Manvel, Texas. The airplane >was registered to and operated by the pilot. The private pilot, sole >occupant, was not injured. Visual meteorological conditions prevailed, and >a >flight plan was not filed for the 14 Code of Federal Regulations Part 91 >personal flight. The flight originated from the Clover Field Airport, >Friendswood, Texas, at 1410. > >The airplane was maneuvering west of Rosharon, Texas, at 1,500 feet msl, at >a slow airspeed for 7-8 minutes when the engine lost power. The pilot >switched fuel tanks and restarted the engine. The pilot then continued the >flight toward the Wolfe Air Park Airport (3T2) located 2 miles northeast of >Manvel. Prior to reaching 3T2, the engine again lost power. According to >the >pilot, "both tanks indicated 1/4+ in fuel quantity." The pilot initiated a >forced landing to Highway 6 south of Manvel. Due to traffic on the highway, >the pilot had to delay the landing, which resulted in the airplane >continuing towards power lines. As the pilot "quickly landed the airplane," >the nose landing gear collapsed, and the airplane came to a stop upright on >the highway. > >Examination of the airplane by the FAA inspector, who responded to the >accident site, revealed that the firewall was buckled, the nose landing >gear >was folded under the airplane, and one propeller blade was bent aft. > >The pilot reported that during the examination of the airplane, "3 inches >of >fuel was found in both of the fuel tanks, and over 15 gallons of fuel was >drained from the airplane. Upon further inspection of the fuel system, no >blockages were found in the fuel lines, and the gascolator was clean." The >pilot suspects that a vacuum was created in both of the fuel tanks, since >there were no fuel tank vents, except for the vents in the fuel caps. > >The airplane had accumulated 5 hours at the time of the accident. > > ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 02:47:34 PM PST US Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 801 fuel tank venting From: Bob & Karen Risch --> Zenith-List message posted by: Bob & Karen Risch Interesting report and thanks for posting it. I have 23 hours on my 801 with the Franklin six engine that can consume 14+ gph on takeoff and have had no problems. I have the extra tanks so there are four vented caps and that may be helpful. I did have two occasions where the engine briefly faltered at about 500 feet in the air on takeoff (serious pucker time) but found that a slightly richer mixture took care of that issue. Bob R. On Sunday, Jan 26, 2003, at 14:10 US/Mountain, Garrou, Douglas wrote: > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Garrou, Douglas" > > > Hi all -- > > Came across this NTSB report on the crash of an 801 (below). In light > of > this, does anyone have thoughts about whether to use the vented fuel > tank > caps supplied with the 801? Has anyone tested them in various "flight > attitudes"? Do other Zenith models use these caps? Etc. > > The NTSB concluded that the aircraft lost power for "unknown reasons." > Unfortunately I think this translates as "it's a homebuilt and we don't > really care." Or maybe "this guy just ran out of gas." > > Cheers, > Doug G. > > FTW02LA035 > On November 10, 2001, at 1500 central standard time, a Terry Zenith 801 > amateur-built airplane, N54RX, was substantially damaged during a > forced > landing following a loss of engine power near Manvel, Texas. The > airplane > was registered to and operated by the pilot. The private pilot, sole > occupant, was not injured. Visual meteorological conditions prevailed, > and a > flight plan was not filed for the 14 Code of Federal Regulations Part > 91 > personal flight. The flight originated from the Clover Field Airport, > Friendswood, Texas, at 1410. > > The airplane was maneuvering west of Rosharon, Texas, at 1,500 feet > msl, at > a slow airspeed for 7-8 minutes when the engine lost power. The pilot > switched fuel tanks and restarted the engine. The pilot then continued > the > flight toward the Wolfe Air Park Airport (3T2) located 2 miles > northeast of > Manvel. Prior to reaching 3T2, the engine again lost power. According > to the > pilot, "both tanks indicated 1/4+ in fuel quantity." The pilot > initiated a > forced landing to Highway 6 south of Manvel. Due to traffic on the > highway, > the pilot had to delay the landing, which resulted in the airplane > continuing towards power lines. As the pilot "quickly landed the > airplane," > the nose landing gear collapsed, and the airplane came to a stop > upright on > the highway. > > Examination of the airplane by the FAA inspector, who responded to the > accident site, revealed that the firewall was buckled, the nose > landing gear > was folded under the airplane, and one propeller blade was bent aft. > > The pilot reported that during the examination of the airplane, "3 > inches of > fuel was found in both of the fuel tanks, and over 15 gallons of fuel > was > drained from the airplane. Upon further inspection of the fuel system, > no > blockages were found in the fuel lines, and the gascolator was clean." > The > pilot suspects that a vacuum was created in both of the fuel tanks, > since > there were no fuel tank vents, except for the vents in the fuel caps. > > The airplane had accumulated 5 hours at the time of the accident. > > > _- > ====================================================================== > _- > ====================================================================== > _- > ====================================================================== > _- > ====================================================================== > > ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 02:49:17 PM PST US From: Bill Morelli Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 801 fuel tank venting --> Zenith-List message posted by: Bill Morelli I use the ZAC supplied vented fuel caps on my LE tanks. The only problem I have is that the tanks are almost 11 gallons each and if I fill them above 10.5 gallons, the fuel will start to siphon out of the cap in flight. This is really not a big issue since they are only advertised as 10 gallon tanks and that's all I need in them. Keep in mind that I only transfer fuel from the LE tanks to the header tank and can't provide fuel directly to the engine from the LE tanks. Regards, Bill >Came across this NTSB report on the crash of an 801 (below). In light of >this, does anyone have thoughts about whether to use the vented fuel tank >caps supplied with the 801? Has anyone tested them in various "flight >attitudes"? Do other Zenith models use these caps? Etc. ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 08:24:40 PM PST US From: Gary Gower Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 801 fuel tank venting --> Zenith-List message posted by: Gary Gower This has to be well designed, because both tanks are interconected. If for some reason one tank has more pressure could blow out the gasoline from the other tank. A comment fron ZAC will be a better solution. Saludos Gary Gower --- Bryan Martin wrote: > --> Zenith-List message posted by: Bryan Martin > > > > Came across this NTSB report on the crash of an 801 (below). In > light of > > this, does anyone have thoughts about whether to use the vented > fuel tank > > caps supplied with the 801? Has anyone tested them in various > "flight > > attitudes"? Do other Zenith models use these caps? Etc. > > > > The caps supplied with my 601XL were this type. I plan to try welding > a tube > to the cap that faces forward into the airstream to get some ram air > pressure into the vent. > > > -- > Bryan Martin > N61BM, CH 601 XL, Stratus Subaru. > Airframe construction complete. > Working on instrument panel, electrical and interior. > do not archive. > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 11:53:22 PM PST US From: "Phil & Michele Miller" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: 801 fuel tank venting --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Phil & Michele Miller" My experience is the same as Bill Morelli has described in his post. I have wing tanks feeding a header tank which feeds the 912S in my 701. The header tank vent tube is routed to an inverted "J" tube on top of the right wing. The wing tanks have the ZAC supplied vented caps. I have had no problems with fuel starvation but have had fuel siphoning out of the vented caps if I fill the wing tanks to the top. I suspect the previous owner found that the header tank vent also siphoned out as there is a flexible hose fitted to the outlet of the "J" which runs down to just behind and below the bottom of the wing slat. It doesn't siphon but actually pressurises the tank a little at high angles of attack. This is evidenced by a small quantity of fuel being blown out of the vent as the nosewheel hits the dirt after touchdown. Why have I written this post? Just to reinforce that fuel system design is critically important. There's more than one way to lose fuel that you thought you had on board. Cheers, Phil M -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Garrou, Douglas Subject: Zenith-List: 801 fuel tank venting --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Garrou, Douglas" --> Hi all -- Came across this NTSB report on the crash of an 801 (below). In light of this, does anyone have thoughts about whether to use the vented fuel tank caps supplied with the 801? Has anyone tested them in various "flight attitudes"? Do other Zenith models use these caps? Etc.