Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 01:08 AM - Re: Archive CD (Matt Dralle)
2. 08:10 AM - 701 plans vs kit (g t)
3. 10:03 AM - Re: Bellows for the steering slots (Gary Gower)
4. 10:21 AM - Re: 701 plans vs kit (H. Robert Schoenberger)
5. 10:37 AM - Re: 701 plans vs kit (erictauch@attbi.com)
6. 10:55 AM - vw twin powered zenith ()
7. 11:32 AM - Re: 701 plans vs kit (H. Robert Schoenberger)
8. 01:58 PM - Re: vw twin powered zenith (Grant Corriveau)
9. 03:04 PM - Re: 701 plans vs kit (Scott Laughlin)
10. 03:08 PM - Re: vw twin powered zenith (Randy Stout)
11. 03:17 PM - Re: vw twin powered zenith ()
12. 03:40 PM - Re: vw twin powered zenith (HINDE,FRANK (HP-Corvallis,ex1))
13. 03:49 PM - Re: vw twin powered zenith (Rick)
14. 04:05 PM - Re: Bellows for the steering slots (Bill Shirley Mitchell)
15. 04:10 PM - Re: 701 plans vs kit (Larry C. McFarland)
16. 04:16 PM - Re: 701 plans vs kit (Fred Poor)
17. 04:20 PM - Re: Bellows for the steering slots (Larry C. McFarland)
18. 04:32 PM - Re: Bellows for the steering slots (Fred or Sandy Hulen)
19. 04:47 PM - Re: Bellows for the steering slots (Carlos Sa)
20. 06:09 PM - Re: 701 plans vs kit (Gary Gower)
21. 06:57 PM - Re: vw twin powered zenith (ZodiacBuilder@aol.com)
22. 07:00 PM - Re: vw twin powered zenith (Pete Ferguson)
23. 09:05 PM - [ Tim & Diane Shankland ] : New Email List Photo Share Available! (Email List Photo Shares)
Message 1
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Matt Dralle <dralle@matronics.com>
Hello everyone,
There have been a couple of other people asking this question too, so I've
created some liner notes that should help you get going down the right
path. See the following PDF:
http://www.matronics.com/ArchiveCDROM/Instructions.pdf
Best regards,
Matt Dralle
At 01:23 PM 2/10/2003 Monday, you wrote:
>--> Zenith-List message posted by: "H. Robert Schoenberger" <HRS4@prodigy.net>
>
>List . . . I have recently received the archive CD which was a part of
>the donation process to Matt. There are no setup or use instructions so
>any advice on how to get this CD up and running will be greatly
>appreciated. Thanks in advance. Hap Schoenberger 701 tail completed,
>working on wings. Do not archive.
Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle@matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft
There's three sides to every story, babe. There's your's;
there's mine; and there's the cold, hard truth...
Don Henley
Long Way Home, 1982
Message 2
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | 701 plans vs kit |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: g t <wauwis2002@yahoo.com>
I have been researching this idea for years.
I am getting ready to take the plunge, or at least get my feet wet.
I have fantasies of landing in the boondocks and enjoying nature, where no man
has gone before.
I have only flown once with more than one passenger aboard
I love building things (woodworker as hobby, engineer by profession), but don't
want to do it the hard way (bucking rivets)
So the 701 looks perfect, if I can get over not having speed or sex appeal.
Planning on going to the rudder school at the end of this month
Still debating on scratch build or kit build.
Never having built before leads me to the kit option.
But, being intrigued by a challenge, I am tending towards the scratch building.
From what I can tell, scratch building is not "technically" complex, just
time consuming?????
So why I am here?
How much more time consuming is scratch building vesus kit building?
Are the 701 plans done well enough to scratch builld without a significant
amount of experience?
Is scratch building really "cost effective" given zeniths ability to volume
buy and resell?
Can some components be purchased from Zenith cost effectively if you are
not buying the Whole kit (ie center wing spars, long bent items, etc.)
Would love to hear some thoughts on these "general" ideas.
Thanks for the information on this site. It really demonstrates the need for
being detailed. Its great to become a part of this site.
Tom
---------------------------------
Message 3
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Bellows for the steering slots |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Gary Gower <ggower_99@yahoo.com>
Hello Tim,
I am shure all of us will appreciate very much to see the photos.
Maybe you could post them in the photoshare.
Thank you in advance
Gary Gower
701 912S.
--- Tim & Diane Shankland <tshank@megsinet.net> wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Tim & Diane Shankland
> <tshank@megsinet.net>
>
> Ben,
>
> I thought about those slots for a long time, since they are through
> the
> "firewall" I wanted them to be fireproof. I went through all sorts of
>
> ideas some quite complex until I had that moment of inspiration The
> slots only need to be closed when you are flying! When you on the
> ground
> the low speed will not cause much airflow and when you are flying the
>
> steering rods are always at the bottom. What I made is a narrow door
> over each slot pivoted at the top with a spring holding it closed.
> There
> is a small triangular opening for the rod it pass and when you land
> the
> upward movement of the rod opens the door. I also put a piece of
> aluminum tubing over a part of the steering rods held in place with a
>
> couple of nuts to keep it from sawing into the door. I have pictures
> if
> you are interested.
>
>
> Tim Shankland
>
> Benford2@aol.com wrote:
>
> >--> Zenith-List message posted by: Benford2@aol.com
> >
> >Has any Zenith builders found any suitable bellows to cover up the
> slots in
> >the firewall??? I have looked all over the web and found nothing.
> Both my
> >snowmobiles, ones a Polaris and the other is a cat and the steering
> boots are
> >close but not long enough. The slots in an 801 are 3/4" wide by 4"
> long.
> >There has to be an application that has a boot that will work.
> Anybody seen
> >something anywhere? Ben Haas. N801BH.
> >
> >
Message 4
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: 701 plans vs kit |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "H. Robert Schoenberger" <HRS4@prodigy.net>
Tom . . . I think your rudder workshop in Mexico will answer a lot of your
questions and steer you in the right direction. When Zenith (or any other
mfgr.) gives an estimate of say 450 hrs. to complete the kit, I can almost
guarantee that if you do not have metal working experience as I didn't that
it will take you a minimum of 2 times and more probably 3 times the factory
estimate to complete the project. I think by build time they mean the
actual physical construction, i. e., aligning pieces from the kit, riveting,
corrosion proofing, skinning, etc. I find I spend at least an equal amount
of time studying the plans and making sure I'm not doing something stupid to
ruin a kit part.
Please understand I'm not complaining - the Zenith kit is a great product,
and they have been very good on tech support. I recommend their planes with
hesitation. But . . . I'm 66 and awfully glad I'm not scratch building as I
do want to fly my bird. Good luck in reaching the right decision for you.
Hap Schoenberger. 701 tail completed, working on the right wing.
----- Original Message -----
From: "g t" <wauwis2002@yahoo.com>
Subject: Zenith-List: 701 plans vs kit
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: g t <wauwis2002@yahoo.com>
>
> I have been researching this idea for years.
> I am getting ready to take the plunge, or at least get my feet wet.
> I have fantasies of landing in the boondocks and enjoying nature, where no
man has gone before.
> I have only flown once with more than one passenger aboard
> I love building things (woodworker as hobby, engineer by profession), but
don't want to do it the hard way (bucking rivets)
>
> So the 701 looks perfect, if I can get over not having speed or sex
appeal.
> Planning on going to the rudder school at the end of this month
>
> Still debating on scratch build or kit build.
> Never having built before leads me to the kit option.
> But, being intrigued by a challenge, I am tending towards the scratch
building.
> From what I can tell, scratch building is not "technically" complex, just
> time consuming?????
>
> So why I am here?
> How much more time consuming is scratch building vesus kit building?
> Are the 701 plans done well enough to scratch builld without a significant
> amount of experience?
> Is scratch building really "cost effective" given zeniths ability to
volume
> buy and resell?
> Can some components be purchased from Zenith cost effectively if you are
> not buying the Whole kit (ie center wing spars, long bent items, etc.)
>
> Would love to hear some thoughts on these "general" ideas.
> Thanks for the information on this site. It really demonstrates the need
for being detailed. Its great to become a part of this site.
>
> Tom
>
>
> ---------------------------------
>
>
Message 5
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: 701 plans vs kit |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: erictauch@attbi.com
Hi,
I relate to your story, but in the end I just dont have enough time to
plans build. It will take you a looonnnnggg time to build up from the
kit. The plans will be atleast twice that.
Unless your situation is one of $$ or a love of building, I'd get the kit.
My problem is too many other hobbies (not enough time for even the kit).
HTH,
Eric Tauch
Message 6
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | vw twin powered zenith |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: <ushvac@ushvac.com>
When one won't do the job, try two.
http://www.greatplainsas.com/vwjguy.html
do not archive
Message 7
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: 701 plans vs kit |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "H. Robert Schoenberger" <HRS4@prodigy.net>
CORRECTION - My reply below in the second paragraph should have read " I
recommend their planes WITHOUT hesitation. Hap Schoenberger
----- Original Message -----
From: "H. Robert Schoenberger" <HRS4@prodigy.net>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 701 plans vs kit
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "H. Robert Schoenberger"
<HRS4@prodigy.net>
>
> Tom . . . I think your rudder workshop in Mexico will answer a lot of your
> questions and steer you in the right direction. When Zenith (or any other
> mfgr.) gives an estimate of say 450 hrs. to complete the kit, I can almost
> guarantee that if you do not have metal working experience as I didn't
that
> it will take you a minimum of 2 times and more probably 3 times the
factory
> estimate to complete the project. I think by build time they mean the
> actual physical construction, i. e., aligning pieces from the kit,
riveting,
> corrosion proofing, skinning, etc. I find I spend at least an equal
amount
> of time studying the plans and making sure I'm not doing something stupid
to
> ruin a kit part.
>
> Please understand I'm not complaining - the Zenith kit is a great
product,
> and they have been very good on tech support. I recommend their planes
with
> hesitation. But . . . I'm 66 and awfully glad I'm not scratch building as
I
> do want to fly my bird. Good luck in reaching the right decision for you.
> Hap Schoenberger. 701 tail completed, working on the right wing.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "g t" <wauwis2002@yahoo.com>
> To: <zenith-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Zenith-List: 701 plans vs kit
>
>
> > --> Zenith-List message posted by: g t <wauwis2002@yahoo.com>
> >
> > I have been researching this idea for years.
> > I am getting ready to take the plunge, or at least get my feet wet.
> > I have fantasies of landing in the boondocks and enjoying nature, where
no
> man has gone before.
> > I have only flown once with more than one passenger aboard
> > I love building things (woodworker as hobby, engineer by profession),
but
> don't want to do it the hard way (bucking rivets)
> >
> > So the 701 looks perfect, if I can get over not having speed or sex
> appeal.
> > Planning on going to the rudder school at the end of this month
> >
> > Still debating on scratch build or kit build.
> > Never having built before leads me to the kit option.
> > But, being intrigued by a challenge, I am tending towards the scratch
> building.
> > From what I can tell, scratch building is not "technically" complex,
just
> > time consuming?????
> >
> > So why I am here?
> > How much more time consuming is scratch building vesus kit building?
> > Are the 701 plans done well enough to scratch builld without a
significant
> > amount of experience?
> > Is scratch building really "cost effective" given zeniths ability to
> volume
> > buy and resell?
> > Can some components be purchased from Zenith cost effectively if you are
> > not buying the Whole kit (ie center wing spars, long bent items, etc.)
> >
> > Would love to hear some thoughts on these "general" ideas.
> > Thanks for the information on this site. It really demonstrates the
need
> for being detailed. Its great to become a part of this site.
> >
> > Tom
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------
> >
> >
>
>
Message 8
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: vw twin powered zenith |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Grant Corriveau <grantC@ca.inter.net>
on 03/02/11 13:54, ushvac@ushvac.com at ushvac@ushvac.com wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: <ushvac@ushvac.com>
>
> When one won't do the job, try two.
>
> http://www.greatplainsas.com/vwjguy.html
>
Great concept - could beat Zenth's 620 to the market! Keep us posted on how
it works out. Any idea of the HP of each engine?
--
Grant Corriveau
Montreal
Zodiac 601hds/CAM100
C-GHTF
Message 9
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: 701 plans vs kit |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Scott Laughlin" <cookwithgas@hotmail.com>
Tom:
I have said before on this board, the rudder school is a great experience.
Make a list of questions and bring your camera. You will have a great time.
The demo flight will answer a lot of your questions also. Try to get a ride
in the 601xl also for a comparison - don't forget to ask them to do slow
flight and maybe a high-altitude stall.
Good luck!
Scot Laughlin
601XL Ser. #6-5074
Rudder Complete
----Original Message Follows----
From: g t <wauwis2002@yahoo.com>
Subject: Zenith-List: 701 plans vs kit
--> Zenith-List message posted by: g t <wauwis2002@yahoo.com>
I have been researching this idea for years.
I am getting ready to take the plunge, or at least get my feet wet.
I have fantasies of landing in the boondocks and enjoying nature, where no
man has gone before.
I have only flown once with more than one passenger aboard
I love building things (woodworker as hobby, engineer by profession), but
don't want to do it the hard way (bucking rivets)
So the 701 looks perfect, if I can get over not having speed or sex appeal.
Planning on going to the rudder school at the end of this month
Still debating on scratch build or kit build.
Never having built before leads me to the kit option.
But, being intrigued by a challenge, I am tending towards the scratch
building.
From what I can tell, scratch building is not "technically" complex, just
time consuming?????
So why I am here?
How much more time consuming is scratch building vesus kit building?
Are the 701 plans done well enough to scratch builld without a significant
amount of experience?
Is scratch building really "cost effective" given zeniths ability to volume
buy and resell?
Can some components be purchased from Zenith cost effectively if you are
not buying the Whole kit (ie center wing spars, long bent items, etc.)
Would love to hear some thoughts on these "general" ideas.
Thanks for the information on this site. It really demonstrates the need
for being detailed. Its great to become a part of this site.
Tom
---------------------------------
Message 10
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: vw twin powered zenith |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Randy Stout" <r5t0ut@earthlink.net>
This plane has 2, 1600cc vw engines on it. They are normally rated at 50hp
each. Since he has a redrive on them, I guess he might get a little more
power from them.
Randy Stout
CH 601 HD
r5t0ut@earthlink.net
http://www.geocities.com/r5t0ut21/index.html
>
> Great concept - could beat Zenth's 620 to the market! Keep us posted on
how
> it works out. Any idea of the HP of each engine?
>
> --
> Grant Corriveau
> Montreal
> Zodiac 601hds/CAM100
> C-GHTF
>
Message 11
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: vw twin powered zenith |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: <ushvac@ushvac.com>
I don't have any information other than what is posted on GPASC website. The
info on GPASC indicates he is using two 1600cc vw's. GPASC publishes the
1600cc at 57 hp direct drive at 3600 rpm takeoff. Even with a 1.3 reduction
drive it seems to me that one engine alone won't keep the twin engine zodiac
601 HDS (?) in the air which is one of the main points of having twin
engines. Also, what kind of stresses would be present in the event of an
engine out? I would be curious to know what modifications were made to the
center wing to accommodate wing mounted engines (custom modifications or
gemini 620 prototype design).
The weight in pounds of one 1600cc engine is 160lbs and then you have to add
the reduction drive weight. Thus these two engines together must exceed
350lbs. (The specifications for the gemini 620 call for two jabiru 2200 80
hp engines).
Perhaps Jeff Guy is on this list or someone who knows him can provide some
information on this interesting modification?
Joe
601 HDS 2276cc VW
do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: "Grant Corriveau" <grantC@ca.inter.net>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: vw twin powered zenith
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Grant Corriveau <grantC@ca.inter.net>
>
> on 03/02/11 13:54, ushvac@ushvac.com at ushvac@ushvac.com wrote:
>
> > --> Zenith-List message posted by: <ushvac@ushvac.com>
> >
> > When one won't do the job, try two.
> >
> > http://www.greatplainsas.com/vwjguy.html
> >
>
> Great concept - could beat Zenth's 620 to the market! Keep us posted on
how
> it works out. Any idea of the HP of each engine?
>
> --
> Grant Corriveau
> Montreal
> Zodiac 601hds/CAM100
> C-GHTF
>
>
Message 12
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | vw twin powered zenith |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "HINDE,FRANK (HP-Corvallis,ex1)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
I would hope so!
The real reason for a twin (I assume 'cos I don't fly one) is to have a
redundant engine to get you to an airport if one of the croaks.
Can you imagine trying to fly the thing on 50hp (less at altitude) with a
large measure of assymetric thrust?
Think I would prefer the glider method!
Frank
601HDS 280 hours Stratus
Do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: Randy Stout [mailto:r5t0ut@earthlink.net]
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: vw twin powered zenith
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Randy Stout" <r5t0ut@earthlink.net>
This plane has 2, 1600cc vw engines on it. They are normally rated at 50hp
each. Since he has a redrive on them, I guess he might get a little more
power from them.
Randy Stout
CH 601 HD
r5t0ut@earthlink.net http://www.geocities.com/r5t0ut21/index.html
>
> Great concept - could beat Zenth's 620 to the market! Keep us posted
> on
how
> it works out. Any idea of the HP of each engine?
>
> --
> Grant Corriveau
> Montreal
> Zodiac 601hds/CAM100
> C-GHTF
>
advertising on the Matronics Forums.
Share: Share photos & files with other List members.
Message 13
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: vw twin powered zenith |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Rick <rick.pitcher@verizon.net>
ushvac@ushvac.com wrote:The
> info on GPASC indicates he is using two 1600cc vw's. GPASC publishes the
> 1600cc at 57 hp direct drive at 3600 rpm takeoff. Even with a 1.3 reduction
> drive it seems to me that one engine alone won't keep the twin engine zodiac
> 601 HDS (?) in the air which is one of the main points of having twin
> engines.
I dunno about keeping the plane in the air... I always heard that the
purpose of the second engine was to carry the aircraft to the crash
site.
Rick
do not archive
Message 14
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Bellows for the steering slots |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Bill Shirley Mitchell <slandwcmitch@yahoo.com>
Go to www.tnwings.com they have them for sale. I just bought a set.
Bill Mitchell
601HDS O-200 on electrical
Pete Ferguson <pfergus2@tampabay.rr.com> wrote:--> Zenith-List message posted
by: "Pete Ferguson"
> There has to be an application that has a boot that will work. Anybody
seen
> something anywhere? Ben Haas. N801BH.
Ben - Go to your local junk yard and seek out a VW .. They have some
wonderful boots on their heater controls and other linkages.. Also check a
motor cycle shop in the neighborhood... lot's of bellow type covers on
shifters and the like...
Pete Ferguson
N601PK
Almost there !
---------------------------------
Message 15
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: 701 plans vs kit |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Larry C. McFarland" <larrymc@qconline.com>
Subject: Zenith-List: 701 plans vs kit
Tom,
The 701 is one of the most awsome flying birds available especially in
takeoffs and landings.
Scratch building is equal to bucking rivets in a RV type kit. Probably a
little more intense.
> I love building things (woodworker as hobby, engineer by profession), but
don't want to do it the hard way (bucking rivets)
> So the 701 looks perfect, if I can get over not having speed or sex
appeal.
> Planning on going to the rudder school at the end of this month
You don't have to decide right away. Do the rudder workshop and then order
another part of the kit
until you can feel comfortable with making forms and your own pieces.
> Still debating on scratch build or kit build.
> Never having built before leads me to the kit option.
> But, being intrigued by a challenge, I am tending towards the scratch
building.
> From what I can tell, scratch building is not "technically" complex, just
> time consuming?????
It does take an inordinate amount of time to make forms and tooling to get
around to making parts.
You should enjoy building as much as flying and fly something else
periodically just to stay current.
If you wait for the completion of a scratch build to fly, you'll forget how
before you're done.
> So why I am here?
> How much more time consuming is scratch building vesus kit building?
> Are the 701 plans done well enough to scratch builld without a significant
> amount of experience?
Initially, the plans left a lot to be desired, but recent AutoCAD drawings
have improved the readability and corrected a lot of problems. None of it
would be cause to avoid scratch building if you read drawings and look well
ahead of things.
> Is scratch building really "cost effective" given zeniths ability to
volume
> buy and resell?
There is precious little in cost-savings to scratch build because you will
have a lot of sweat equity and blood in
the effort. Kits finish somewhere between 1 to 3 years, scratch builders
get out there after
3 to 5 years and some a lot longer. Scratch building for me is obsessive
and a relief from work and I fly every other week with good weather. I
enjoy both immensely and I'll miss the project aspect when it flys.
> Can some components be purchased from Zenith cost effectively if you are
> not buying the Whole kit (ie center wing spars, long bent items, etc.)
Zenith provides a basic cost to everything without regard to individual part
or kit and they have been
good for early hand-holding whether you kit or scratch. You provide all the
incentive, drive and
progress, so do the workshop and get off to a good start. The Zenith people
are great.
Hope this helps. If you want to look further, I've a web site on
construction of a Zenith 601 with a journal
that is passing 175 pages covering 3-1/2 years and a hundred pictures or so
that grows each day.
See http://www.macsmachine.com
Larry C. McFarland - 601hds at 80%
Message 16
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: 701 plans vs kit |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Fred Poor <fredspoor2002@yahoo.com>
--- g t <wauwis2002@yahoo.com> wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: g t
> <wauwis2002@yahoo.com>
>
> I have been researching this idea for years.
> I am getting ready to take the plunge, or at least
> get my feet wet.
> I have fantasies of landing in the boondocks and
> enjoying nature, where no man has gone before.
> I have only flown once with more than one passenger
> aboard
> I love building things (woodworker as hobby,
> engineer by profession), but don't want to do it the
> hard way (bucking rivets)
>
> So the 701 looks perfect, if I can get over not
> having speed or sex appeal.
> Planning on going to the rudder school at the end of
> this month
>
> Still debating on scratch build or kit build.
> Never having built before leads me to the kit
> option.
> But, being intrigued by a challenge, I am tending
> towards the scratch building.
> From what I can tell, scratch building is not
> "technically" complex, just
> time consuming?????
>
> So why I am here?
> How much more time consuming is scratch building
> vesus kit building?
At least twice as long-------
> Are the 701 plans done well enough to scratch builld
> without a significant
> amount of experience?
yes
> Is scratch building really "cost effective" given
> zeniths ability to volume
> buy and resell?
Yes, not counting labor
> Can some components be purchased from Zenith cost
> effectively if you are
> not buying the Whole kit (ie center wing spars, long
> bent items, etc.)
Yes-- you can but the whole kit or any one piece form
Zenith Aircraft Co--- A great bunch of folks to deal
with---- "fred"
>
> Would love to hear some thoughts on these "general"
> ideas.
> Thanks for the information on this site. It really
> demonstrates the need for being detailed. Its great
> to become a part of this site.
>
> Tom
>
>
> ---------------------------------
>
>
>
> Contributions
> any other
> Forums.
>
> latest messages.
> List members.
>
> http://www.matronics.com/subscription
> http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Zenith-List.htm
> Digests:http://www.matronics.com/digest/zenith-list
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
>
>
>
>
Message 17
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Bellows for the steering slots |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Larry C. McFarland" <larrymc@qconline.com>
Ben,
I did a 3-piece sandwich that is slotted front and back with a piece that is
grommeted
at it's center. Thicker pieces at the edges to allow the center piece to
slide up and down
without much leakage. I used aluminum, but fiberfrax as cover with a slit
in it.
The extreme top is bolted and the bottom back piece is angled to bolt thru
the floor. Fiberfrax will
be added at the forward face to do the thermal thing.
Larry C. McFarland - 601hds.
Subject: Zenith-List: Bellows for the steering slots
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Benford2@aol.com
>
> Has any Zenith builders found any suitable bellows to cover up the slots
in
> the firewall??? I have looked all over the web and found nothing. Both my
> snowmobiles, ones a Polaris and the other is a cat and the steering boots
are
> close but not long enough. The slots in an 801 are 3/4" wide by 4" long.
> There has to be an application that has a boot that will work. Anybody
seen
> something anywhere? Ben Haas. N801BH.
Message 18
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Bellows for the steering slots |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Fred or Sandy Hulen" <hulens61@birch.net>
> Go to www.tnwings.com they have them for sale. I just bought a set.
> Bill Mitchell
++ Bill, I tried to find them there, but didn't succeed. The one icon I
couldn't get to work was "Misc". It kept coming up with the message "sorry,
not items available under blankets and throws" Where in the site did you
find them?
Thanks
Fred
do not archive
Message 19
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Bellows for the steering slots |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Carlos Sa <carlosfsa@yahoo.com>
Click on "Interiors" (on top) and scroll down...
> > Go to www.tnwings.com they have them for sale. I just bought a set.
> > Bill Mitchell
>
> ++ Bill, I tried to find them there, but didn't succeed. The one icon I
> couldn't get to work was "Misc". It kept coming up with the message "sorry,
> not items available under blankets and throws" Where in the site did you
> find them?
Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca
Message 20
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: 701 plans vs kit |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Gary Gower <ggower_99@yahoo.com>
Just thinking a little...
I guesstimate about 1 year or partime to build a kit (maybe less) by
one person with an ocasional helper, and about 3 years to scratch built
(maybe more), making the "plugs" takes a lot of time, but no first hand
experience, only built the plug for the firewall.
The Kit costs about 13,000.00 and when scratch building maybe about
80% for material costs (or less if you are really good in calculate
material volume) lots of left overs because it will be almost imposible
to estimate de EXACT amout to buy) and aviation material (6061 T6 and
cromoly) is expensive. I have already built two plans built airplanes
(nor Zenith of corse).
I will make myself this question: Saving about 3,000.00 from the kit
price... how much money can you make working part time in the remaining
2 years, once the kit is finished?
Just a point of view... Maybe not valid or complete inacurrate in
estimates :-)
On the other side, scratch building is lots of fun, when you already
have something to fly in, and not in a hurry, or really no extra money,
(rasing a family with an anti-aircraft wife :-).
Saludos
Gary Gower
Do not archive
--- Scott Laughlin <cookwithgas@hotmail.com> wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Scott Laughlin"
> <cookwithgas@hotmail.com>
>
> Tom:
>
> I have said before on this board, the rudder school is a great
> experience.
> Make a list of questions and bring your camera. You will have a great
> time.
> The demo flight will answer a lot of your questions also. Try to get
> a ride
> in the 601xl also for a comparison - don't forget to ask them to do
> slow
> flight and maybe a high-altitude stall.
>
> Good luck!
>
> Scot Laughlin
> 601XL Ser. #6-5074
> Rudder Complete
>
>
> ----Original Message Follows----
> From: g t <wauwis2002@yahoo.com>
> To: zenith-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Zenith-List: 701 plans vs kit
> Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2003 08:09:01 -0800 (PST)
>
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: g t <wauwis2002@yahoo.com>
>
> I have been researching this idea for years.
> I am getting ready to take the plunge, or at least get my feet wet.
> I have fantasies of landing in the boondocks and enjoying nature,
> where no
> man has gone before.
> I have only flown once with more than one passenger aboard
> I love building things (woodworker as hobby, engineer by profession),
> but
> don't want to do it the hard way (bucking rivets)
>
> So the 701 looks perfect, if I can get over not having speed or sex
> appeal.
> Planning on going to the rudder school at the end of this month
>
> Still debating on scratch build or kit build.
> Never having built before leads me to the kit option.
> But, being intrigued by a challenge, I am tending towards the scratch
>
> building.
> From what I can tell, scratch building is not "technically" complex,
> just
> time consuming?????
>
> So why I am here?
> How much more time consuming is scratch building vesus kit building?
> Are the 701 plans done well enough to scratch builld without a
> significant
> amount of experience?
> Is scratch building really "cost effective" given zeniths ability to
> volume
> buy and resell?
> Can some components be purchased from Zenith cost effectively if you
> are
> not buying the Whole kit (ie center wing spars, long bent items,
> etc.)
>
> Would love to hear some thoughts on these "general" ideas.
> Thanks for the information on this site. It really demonstrates the
> need
> for being detailed. Its great to become a part of this site.
>
> Tom
>
>
> ---------------------------------
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 21
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: vw twin powered zenith |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: ZodiacBuilder@aol.com
In a message dated 2/11/2003 1:56:33 PM Eastern Standard Time,
ushvac@ushvac.com writes:
>
> When one won't do the job, try two.
>
> http://www.greatplainsas.com/vwjguy.html
>
> do not archive
WOW..........!
How KOOL is that plane.
One question though? What did he do to get the proper balance. Or did the
weight of the two engines forward of the center of gravity make up for the
weight of one up front.
John W. Tarabocchia
(407) 709-7255
http://hometown.aol.com/zodiacbuilder
N6042T 90hrs Flown.....
Message 22
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: vw twin powered zenith |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Pete Ferguson" <pfergus2@tampabay.rr.com>
Wow ! just add two engines to a 601 and you have a twin....... Hey I bet
that works with Cessna 152s also.... just bolt em on and go...
Pete
@ushvac.com>
>
> When one won't do the job, try two.
>
> http://www.greatplainsas.com/vwjguy.html
>
> do not archive
Message 23
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | [ Tim & Diane Shankland ] : New Email List Photo Share Available! |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Email List Photo Shares <pictures@matronics.com>
A new Email List Photo Share is available:
Poster: Tim & Diane Shankland <tshank@megsinet.net>
Subject: Canopy latch
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/tshank@megsinet.net.02.11.2003/index.html
--------------------------------------------
o Main Photo Share Index
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
o Submitting a Photo Share
If you wish to submit a Photoshare of your own, please include the
following information along with your email message and files:
1) Email List or Lists that they are related to.
2) Your Full Name.
3) Your Email Address.
4) One line Subject description.
5) Multi-line, multi-paragraph description of topic.
6) One-line Description of each photo or file.
Email the information above and your files and photos to:
pictures@matronics.com
--------------------------------------------
Other Matronics Email List Services
These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.
-- Please support this service by making your Contribution today! --
|