Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 08:52 AM - Re: Stol 801 dual controls (Jim Frisby)
2. 09:32 AM - Wheel Pants Speed Increase (Schallgren@aol.com)
3. 11:03 AM - Braking Power... (Don Honabach)
4. 11:38 AM - Re: Braking Power... (Clive Richards)
5. 11:52 AM - Re: 601 XL Brake Caliper Placement (Aaron)
6. 12:06 PM - Re: Braking Power... (ZodiacBuilder@aol.com)
7. 12:14 PM - Re: Stol 801 dual controls (Dirk Andrepont)
8. 12:36 PM - Fuel leakage (Richard McLachlan)
9. 12:59 PM - Re: Braking Power... (Peter Dunning)
10. 01:55 PM - Re: Wheel Pants Speed Increase (Ron DeWees)
11. 02:05 PM - Re: 601 XL Brake Caliper Placement (wizard-24@juno.com)
12. 03:24 PM - Re: Braking Power... (Bill Morelli)
13. 04:19 PM - Central stick for 701 (Johann G.)
14. 04:34 PM - Re: Fuel leakage (Dave Austin)
15. 04:48 PM - Re: Central stick for 701 (Fred Poor)
16. 05:55 PM - Breaking power (TOMGILES@aol.com)
17. 06:31 PM - Re: Braking Power... (Peter Dunning)
18. 08:19 PM - Re: Central stick for 701 (Randy L. Thwing)
19. 08:27 PM - Re: Central stick for 701 (Gary Gower)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Stol 801 dual controls |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jim Frisby" <marslander@hotmail.com>
Dirk,
I wonder if maybe the "full dual control" statement referred to dual engine
controls in addition to the "Y" stick. I looked at a 701 model that had a
shaft and bellcrank arrangement in front of the firewall to allow for left
and right throttle controls. The builder told me it was part of his kit.
Pros/cons, I consider the center stick a positive feature, simplifying the
control system, keeping the stick out of the way during ingress/egress, and
very natural to fly. These advantages are offset by the necessity to
complicate engine controls or leave the copilot seat without them.
I plan to add the bellcrank arrangement to my 801 to provide for dual
throttle control. The push pull controls will have to be friction type
rather than vernier.
Jim Frisby
Palmer AK
N801ZA
>From: "Dirk Andrepont" <dandrepont@charter.net>
>
>Hello All,
>
>
>An article on this website:
>http://www.homebuilt-plane.com/stolch801/update.html ( go to the very
>end) stated that there Chris would provide plans for those who may
>want dual controls in the 801. I thought I once saw a photo of this on
>some website (may have been a 701) . Has anyone considered dual controls
>(stick) .pros? cons?
>
>
>Thanks
>
>Dirk Andrepont
>
>Louisiana
>
>
Message 2
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| Subject: | Wheel Pants Speed Increase |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Schallgren@aol.com
List:
I flew yesterday for the first time with all three wheel pants installed.
Our IAS's increased 5 mph and we are now getting 140 at WOT (2920 RPM) at
both 6,500' and 7,500,' 2850 RPM at 6,500 also gave 140 mph.
The following RPM's resulted in the speeds indicated at 7,500': 2920=140;
2850=136; 2800=135; 2750=130; 2650=125; 2550=120; 2450=110.
2300 RPM at 6,500' resulted in a speed of 100 mph with a fuel flow of 4.2
gph. That combination would result in about a 7 hour flight capability
limited by a 3 hour bladder.
The next speed enhancement planned is wheel fairings. Anticipate no speed
increase but some RPM decrease to attain the same speed and resultant fuel
flow decrease.
Stan
601 HDS/JABIRU 3300/Sensinich 64 X 49
91 hours
Message 3
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| Subject: | Braking Power... |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Don Honabach" <don@pcperfect.com>
Hey Guys,
I'm getting close to installing the brakes on my 601HDS and was reading
some of the articles on the list. Noticed that more than a few folks
have complained about poor breaking power. I went over to Matco's site
to see if they had anything interesting or helpful and found that they
are selling an 'Intensifier' for the MC-5 cylinders that 'provides a 60%
increase in pressure'. If interested, here's the URL:
http://www.matcomfg.com/intensifier.htm
Regards,
Don Honabach
Tempe, AZ
601HDS - Subaru EA-81
http://zodiac.pcperfect.com
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Braking Power... |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Clive Richards" <stephen@crichards.flyer.co.uk>
Hi Don
Have you checked out Explanation of brake geometry on Matco web site
www.matcomfg.com/brktorq/brktorq.htm
Ray Lasnier is sorting his out at the moment as supplied with his kit the
ratio on left & right is different & to low
He may have sufficient leverage by shortning top & bottom mounting arms as
mutch as possible.
Clive Richards For Ray Lasnier G CBDG 601 HD 90%
----- Original Message -----
From: "Don Honabach" <don@pcperfect.com>
Subject: Zenith-List: Braking Power...
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Don Honabach" <don@pcperfect.com>
>
> Hey Guys,
>
> I'm getting close to installing the brakes on my 601HDS and was reading
> some of the articles on the list. Noticed that more than a few folks
> have complained about poor breaking power. I went over to Matco's site
> to see if they had anything interesting or helpful and found that they
> are selling an 'Intensifier' for the MC-5 cylinders that 'provides a 60%
> increase in pressure'. If interested, here's the URL:
> http://www.matcomfg.com/intensifier.htm
>
> Regards,
>
> Don Honabach
> Tempe, AZ
> 601HDS - Subaru EA-81
> http://zodiac.pcperfect.com
>
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: 601 XL Brake Caliper Placement |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Aaron" <agustafson@chartermi.net>
Phil
I'm building a 601 HD which I have modified to use the Grove one piece
spring gear and Goodyear calipers. I find the same thing, that the caliper
will only mount straight down. This doesn't seem to be a problem though as
the ground clearance still looks real good and the caliper fits nice and
tight to the gear. I have one additional minor problem in that the gun
drilled brake line also exits behind the caliper, so will have to drill a
hole at the rear of gear and plug the bottom one.
I would like to see how you XL builders mount your gear.
Aaron Gustafson
----- Original Message -----
From: "Phil Maxson" <pmaxpmax@hotmail.com>
Subject: Zenith-List: 601 XL Brake Caliper Placement
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Phil Maxson" <pmaxpmax@hotmail.com>
>
> I'm bolting up the XL wheels and bakes. I cut the gear legs to match the
> wheel hub, and I notice now that the only way I can mount the brake
calipers
> is straight down below the bottom of the gear leg. I don't like this
> location, because I think it will get hit by rocks and debris more
> frequently. If I move to the back of the leg, It will require me to grind
a
> notch in the back of the gear leg.
>
> Question 1: Where have other builders put the calipers?
>
> Question 2: What torque should I use on the two 1/2 inch gear attachment
> bolts?
>
> Thanks in advance,
> Phil Maxson
>
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Braking Power... |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: ZodiacBuilder@aol.com
In a message dated 2/23/2003 2:04:46 PM Eastern Standard Time,
don@pcperfect.com writes:
> 'Intensifier' for the MC-5 cylinders that 'provides a 60%
> increase in pressure'
Hi Don,
I used the matco system on my 601hds. The brake disks and brake calipers are
the problem, not the master cylinder. I refitted my plane with a standard
Cleveland brakes and wheels. I retained the matco master cylinder.
I now can firewall the throttle on the 0-200 and still maintain a taxi speed
around the airport. Then stop at will, all while having full power.
The best I could get out of the matco brakes and wheels was 1500rpm. If I
applied anymore power the plain would start to move.
Good luck,
John W. Tarabocchia
(407) 709-7255
http://hometown.aol.com/zodiacbuilder
N6042T 90hrs Flown.....
Message 7
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| Subject: | Stol 801 dual controls |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dirk Andrepont" <dandrepont@charter.net>
Dirk,
I wonder if maybe the "full dual control" statement referred to dual
engine
controls in addition to the "Y" stick. I looked at a 701 model that had
a
shaft and bellcrank arrangement in front of the firewall to allow for
left
and right throttle controls. The builder told me it was part of his
kit.
Pros/cons, I consider the center stick a positive feature, simplifying
the
control system, keeping the stick out of the way during ingress/egress,
and
very natural to fly. These advantages are offset by the necessity to
complicate engine controls or leave the copilot seat without them.
I plan to add the bellcrank arrangement to my 801 to provide for dual
throttle control. The push pull controls will have to be friction type
rather than vernier.
Jim Frisby
Palmer AK
N801ZA
Thanks Jim,
Your suggestions for dual throttle controls would be easier by far. I
plan, at this time to use the Eggenfelner Subaru engine...so I would not
need carb heat control...but also plan to use adjustable prop & will
have to decide where to put control for that.
Dirk Andrepont
Opelousas, La.
Message 8
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: Richard McLachlan <richard@foxfield.demon.co.uk>
We bought a CH601HD a few weeks back and are having fun getting used to
it. Recently I have noticed a smell of fuel when flying and today there was a
small marked area on the front of the canopy where fuel seems to be spraying
over it in flight- not a lot but enough. The cap is on tight with the small tube
facing forward into the airstream. The tank was only about half full at the
time.
Has anybody else met this problem?
--
Richard McLachlan
C172XP/CH601HDS/R22 G3OQT
Landing Site info at http://www.foxfield.demon.co.uk
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Braking Power... |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Peter Dunning" <peterd@metec.co.nz>
Hi Don,
I have just finished installing the intensifiers
to my MC-5 master cylinders. The mods
were very easy and quick, but care must be taken
when installing the internal cylinders (pressed-in)
as it is easy to damage the sealing rings. I little
brake fluid assists this operation.
I found George at MATCO to be very helpful and
we worked through the optimisation of the braking
performance for my Zodiac. He also emailed a drawing
to record the mods in my construction log.
The geometry of the original brake pedals gives
a Mechanical Advantage (MA) of approx 1.8 from
measurements taken. With the intensifiers
providing 56% increased braking pressure, this
gives an MA of approx. 2.8
The minimum recommended is 2.5, so its good/effective
gain.
I also modified the brake pedal geometry by shortening
the lower leg supporting the base of the MC-5s, but the
effort wasn't rewarding with no significant improvement
in MA.
I have yet to test the end result, but am confident that
MATCO's advice is the way to go.
Cheers
Peter Dunning
CH601HD/ZK-SPD/912S
NZ
-----Original Message-----
From: Don Honabach <don@pcperfect.com>
Subject: Zenith-List: Braking Power...
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Wheel Pants Speed Increase |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Ron DeWees" <rdewees@mindspring.com>
Wow Stan,
Thanks for the report. It's great to see those numbers finally come from a
flying plane and not just the published specs. Keep up the great work and
encouragement! You are an inspiration to us.
Ron DeWees
do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: <Schallgren@aol.com>
Subject: Zenith-List: Wheel Pants Speed Increase
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Schallgren@aol.com
>
> List:
>
> I flew yesterday for the first time with all three wheel pants installed.
> Our IAS's increased 5 mph and we are now getting 140 at WOT (2920 RPM) at
> both 6,500' and 7,500,' 2850 RPM at 6,500 also gave 140 mph.
>
> The following RPM's resulted in the speeds indicated at 7,500': 2920=140;
> 2850=136; 2800=135; 2750=130; 2650=125; 2550=120; 2450=110.
>
> 2300 RPM at 6,500' resulted in a speed of 100 mph with a fuel flow of 4.2
> gph. That combination would result in about a 7 hour flight capability
> limited by a 3 hour bladder.
>
> The next speed enhancement planned is wheel fairings. Anticipate no
speed
> increase but some RPM decrease to attain the same speed and resultant fuel
> flow decrease.
>
> Stan
> 601 HDS/JABIRU 3300/Sensinich 64 X 49
> 91 hours
>
>
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: 601 XL Brake Caliper Placement |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: wizard-24@juno.com
> notice now that the only way I can mount the brake
> calipers is straight down below the bottom of the gear leg. I don't
like
> this location, because I think it will get hit by rocks and debris
more
> frequently. If I move to the back of the leg, It will require me to
> grind a notch in the back of the gear leg.
>
> Question 1: Where have other builders put the calipers?
I mounted them at the rear of the gear legs, and you're right -- I had to
gring a notch (used a small angle grinder), which was approved by ZAC.
Mike Fortunato
601XL
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Braking Power... |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Bill Morelli <billvt@together.net>
Peter,
Can you tell me what Matco charges for this modification kit?
Also, how difficult do you think it would be to modify master cylinders on
a completed aircraft?
Regards,
Bill (N812BM - HDS - Tri - Stratus - Vermont - 193.6 flight hrs. - 303
landings, 1 ON ICE!!)
web site -> http://homepages.together.net/~billvt/
>I also modified the brake pedal geometry by shortening
>the lower leg supporting the base of the MC-5s, but the
>effort wasn't rewarding with no significant improvement
>in MA.
>
>I have yet to test the end result, but am confident that
>MATCO's advice is the way to go.
Message 13
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| Subject: | Central stick for 701 |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Johann G." <johann-g@talnet.is>
Hello list members.
When completing a big part of the project as the rear fuselage, a lot of empty
space is created under the table.
So I started gathering all the parts remaining from under there, just to see if
all of them were accounted for.
When going through all the welded parts, I noticed that the Central stick was only
a straight stick without the Y grip.
My question to other kit builders is:
Are all the parts ready welded in your kit, or do we need to do some welding?
The problem I am facing is that I can not seem to find the tubes ( 1 1/8 x .035
) 100mm long to make the Y handle grip.
This material is not available in Iceland, so is it ok to use other material for
this part of the stick?
Thank you in advance,
Johann G.
Iceland.
Do not archive.
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel leakage |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave Austin" <daveaustin2@sprint.ca>
Yuo will get the smell of fuel unless the filler cap neck is fully sealed to
the skin. The breather fumes from the cap are sucked down into the cockpit
at pretty well any attitude and speed. The Zenair a/c I had my demo flight
in did the same. Use a good pliable seal that isn't destroyed by gas.
Dave Austin 601HDS - 912
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Central stick for 701 |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Fred Poor <fredspoor2002@yahoo.com>
I made my "Y" from 7/8" dia. (4130)--- where the "Y"
fits into the "stick" just squeeze ( the 1" stock) a
little in a vise and than weld it. The reason for
this was so I could buy the soft foam handle bar grips
from a motorcyle shop----- worked great and was more
comfortable than the one inch stock would be-- "fred"
do not archive
--- "Johann G." <johann-g@talnet.is> wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Johann G."
> <johann-g@talnet.is>
>
> Hello list members.
>
> When completing a big part of the project as the
> rear fuselage, a lot of empty space is created under
> the table.
> So I started gathering all the parts remaining from
> under there, just to see if all of them were
> accounted for.
> When going through all the welded parts, I noticed
> that the Central stick was only a straight stick
> without the Y grip.
>
> My question to other kit builders is:
> Are all the parts ready welded in your kit, or do we
> need to do some welding?
>
> The problem I am facing is that I can not seem to
> find the tubes ( 1 1/8 x .035 ) 100mm long to make
> the Y handle grip.
> This material is not available in Iceland, so is it
> ok to use other material for this part of the stick?
>
> Thank you in advance,
>
> Johann G.
> Iceland.
>
> Do not archive.
>
>
>
> Contributions
> any other
> Forums.
>
> latest messages.
> List members.
>
> http://www.matronics.com/subscription
> http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Zenith-List.htm
> Digests:http://www.matronics.com/digest/zenith-list
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
>
>
>
>
http://taxes.yahoo.com/
Message 16
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: TOMGILES@aol.com
When using/testing your brakes be sure to hold the stick in the FAR AFT
position. The wing is high lift will rise with throttle. Do a static runup
with someone measuring the tail. It's an eye-opener.
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Braking Power... |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Peter Dunning" <peterd@metec.co.nz>
Hi Bill,
I sent you a reply direct and then thought
others might be interested.....so....
The work of fitting the kit components is not
an issue. The issue is really removing the
MC-5's from the rudder pedal assembly and
re-installing later. What I suggest is to see if
you can avoid disconnecting the hydraulic
hoses and disconnect each MC-5 at top &
bottom. This being the case, you can then swing
the MC-5's out for better access at say floor
level and close to the front of the pilots seat.
This should enable you to perform the mods
even if there is a degree of discomfort as you
lean over into the cockpit to do this.
There is something you should check on first.
Because the swept volume of fluid to operate the
disks is the same, the reduced piston diameter
means you will increase the stroke distance by
56%. I noted that prior to modification, the stroke
was around 5/8" max., so the new stroke will be
close to an inch. No problem for the MC5, but is
there any likelihood that your toe pedals will
hit anything adjacent ?
You are going to need to lower the level of brake
fluid by bleeding from the brake assy's. If you feel
that its no problem disconnecting the hoses from
the MC-5's, then I suggest you go for it.
The new cylinders need to be cut to length to suit
what variant of MC-5 you have. I had to shave off
0.2" in the lathe.
Installation was a simple press-in job with a bench
vice and short length of plastic bar to avoid damaging
the new cylinders. The whole operation was over in
30 minutes and they were ready for re-installation
on the rudder pedals.
I had considerable discussion with the MATCO
Engineer (George Happ) and I modified the ZAC
lower mounting. It was a waste of time !
I now have a MA of 2.8. Not brilliant, but OK.
I really didn't want to have my HD creeping onto the
runway from holding position during run-up and/or
ignition testing !
Cost. Each MC-5 intensifier kit was $US 16.49
ex MATCO. Your bird should cost you around
$US 45 all up, plus some brake fluid......a cheaper
option than any other solution I know of. Isnt this
problem something Zenair could have picked up
on long ago ? (Maybe they have ?)
Hope the above helps....keep in touch.
Cheers
Peter
CH601HD/912S/ZK-SPD.
-----Original Message-----
From: Bill Morelli <billvt@together.net>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Braking Power...
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Central stick for 701 |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Randy L. Thwing" <n4546v@mindspring.com>
Johann:
Let me know what you finally decide on. I'm sure I can find it the
airport and mail it up to you via Jeremy.
Regards,
Randy L. Thwing, Proud Dad of AD1 Jeremy Thwing, USN, US Naval Air Station,
Keflavic, Iceland
Do not archive
Subject: Zenith-List: Central stick for 701
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Johann G." <johann-g@talnet.is>
> This material is not available in Iceland, so is it ok to use other
material for this part of the stick?
>
> Thank you in advance,
>
> Johann G.
> Iceland.
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: Central stick for 701 |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Gary Gower <ggower_99@yahoo.com>
Johann,
There are 3 tubes (plus the flap handle). One is the "Y" tube, other
one is the horizontal one that conects the "Y" with the alerion crank
and a 3rd tube is another one that goes in the lower part of the Y and
the elevator crank below the luggage compartment.
I dont have the plans here at home, so I could give you the numbers,
but double check the tubes, in my KIT the Y is complete and welded.
I am almost finished with the fuselage and have not find anything
missing, they are very professional, so I think they sent you the "Y"
tube.
Tomorrow I will check my plans (where we are working now in the
controls) and will let you know.
Do you have a digital camera? we can send photos back and forth to be
sure, maybe you have the Y tube misplaced somewhere...
Hope I can be of help.
Saludos
Gary Gower.
701 912S
Guadalajara, Jalisco, Mexico
--- "Johann G." <johann-g@talnet.is> wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Johann G." <johann-g@talnet.is>
>
> Hello list members.
>
> When completing a big part of the project as the rear fuselage, a lot
> of empty space is created under the table.
> So I started gathering all the parts remaining from under there, just
> to see if all of them were accounted for.
> When going through all the welded parts, I noticed that the Central
> stick was only a straight stick without the Y grip.
>
> My question to other kit builders is:
> Are all the parts ready welded in your kit, or do we need to do some
> welding?
>
> The problem I am facing is that I can not seem to find the tubes ( 1
> 1/8 x .035 ) 100mm long to make the Y handle grip.
> This material is not available in Iceland, so is it ok to use other
> material for this part of the stick?
>
> Thank you in advance,
>
> Johann G.
> Iceland.
>
> Do not archive.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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