Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:19 AM - STOL 801 Down in California. Re: Someone in Sacramento Ca. Area? (kevindiehl@KevinDiehl.com)
2. 02:35 AM - Re: Fuel Pump - Aux Tanks... (Bryan Martin)
3. 08:33 AM - Coolant type and quantitites (STEFREE@aol.com)
4. 08:38 AM - Re: Someone in Sacramento Ca. Area? (Ben)
5. 09:13 AM - Re: Someone in Sacramento Ca. Area? (tongaloa)
6. 09:25 AM - Re: Coolant type and quantitites (Don Walker)
7. 10:02 AM - Re: Someone in Sacramento Ca. Area? (John Mireley)
8. 10:17 AM - Re: Fuel Pump - Aux Tanks... (Leo J. Corbalis)
9. 01:34 PM - Re: Don Walker's post on valve guides (Weston, Jim)
10. 03:31 PM - Re: Fuel Pump - Aux Tanks... (Wayne McIntosh)
11. 06:11 PM - Re: Don Walker's post on valve guides (Don Walker)
12. 06:13 PM - Re: Someone in Sacramento Ca. Area? (Brenton Battles)
13. 07:36 PM - Re: Fuel Pump - Aux Tanks... (Peter Dunning)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Someone in Sacramento |
Ca. Area?
--> Zenith-List message posted by: kevindiehl@KevinDiehl.com
It looks like it was Art Mitchell's ( http://www.flypass.com/801price.htm ,
Due to the Long LOM type Cowl, Art's Bellypod, and the Exact same colors and
trim patterns (look at the thin white line on the cowl here
http://www.zenithair.com/stolch801/builder-pics/fp-6.jpg ) and in the
picture in the Sacramento bee Link at
http://www.sacbee.com/content/news/story/6203952p-7158660c.html
I Think you'll see they appear to be the exact same plane.
See Art Mitchell's Photos of his plane at
http://www.zenithair.com/stolch801/bldr-photos-fp1.html
Click on the pictures of Art's plane to see them at full resolution.
Kevin Diehl
801 Builder
----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve Shuck" <stshuck@attbi.com>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Someone in Sacramento Ca. Area?
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Steve Shuck" <stshuck@attbi.com>
>
> Yes, the story is in the Sacramento Bee
> http://www.sacbee.com/content/news/story/6203952p-7158660c.html
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Gary Gower" <ggower_99@yahoo.com>
> To: <zenith-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Zenith-List: Someone in Sacramento Ca. Area?
>
>
> > --> Zenith-List message posted by: Gary Gower <ggower_99@yahoo.com>
> >
> > Recieved This from another list... Someone in that area that could
> > check it out? I am sure we all like to know facts.
> >
> > Saludos
> > Gary Gower
> >
> > > From: <wecounselman3@yahoo.com>
> > > Date: Sun, 2 Mar 2003 09:46:47 -0800 (PST)
> > > Subject: Fatal Zenair Crash In Sacramento
> > >
> > > Sad news in the paper today. A Zenair Zenith or one
> > > of
> > > its clones has crashed in a field outside of
> > > Sacramento California killing the 50 yr old pilot
> > > and
> > > the 17 yr old boyfriend of the pilot's daughter. A
> > > farm worker found the wreckage scattered over a wide
> > > area. No explosion or flash was reported. From the
> > > photo it looks like a CH701 or 801 with a very long
> > > nose-possibly powered by an in-line engine. Reports
> > > say the plane was purchased in Canada. The pilot was
> > > a
> > > contracts attorney, former nurse and Viet Nam war
> > > vet.
> > > The passenger was a well-liked high school student
> > > who
> > > was on the varsity football and basketball team and
> > > wanted to be a pilot.
> > >
> > > Jake
> > >
> > > Also posted to homebuilt list.
> > >
> >
> >
> > http://taxes.yahoo.com/
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel Pump - Aux Tanks... |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Bryan Martin <bryanmmartin@comcast.net>
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Don Honabach" <don@pcperfect.com>
>
> Hey Guys,
>
> I'm trying to work out the details for a 'keep it simple' installation
> that will connect my wing tanks to my primary fuselage tank.
>
> In short, I just want my two wing tanks to fill my primary header tank
> which will be controlled by Left and Right Fuel Pump Switches. In order
> to keep the fuel line runs simple my thought was to get 2 - Facet 40171
> Solid State Fuel Pumps which have a built in check and foot valve so
> that the fuel will not flow in either direction unless the pump is
> turned on. Since these units won't permit fuel to flow in either
> direction unless on, this would also eliminate my need to install a
> manual fuel shutoff valve.
>
Some of the Facet fuel pumps allow a small amount of back flow as part of
their design. Make sure the ones you get aren't this type. I can't recall
the part number of the ones that don't. Otherwise you will still need at
least one valve at the inlet of the main tank to prevent fuel from siphoning
back into the wing tanks when the plane is parked. I don't know if the FAA
will require valves or not.
--
Bryan Martin
N61BM, CH 601 XL, Stratus Subaru.
Airframe construction complete.
Working on instrument panel, electrical and interior.
do not archive.
Message 3
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| Subject: | Coolant type and quantitites |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: STEFREE@aol.com
Good morning all,
I am at the exciting phase of actually starting my engine! I was wondering
if any of you Stratus drivers could advise what type and an approximate
quantity of coolant to use for the cooling system. I understand it should be
a mix of 50% anti-freeze to 50% water, but does anyone have a suggestion of
what type to use? I am installing a pretty standard set-up, with the VW
radiator hung under the airframe and was just wondering how much it should
take to fill the system.
Thanks for you help in advance,
Steve (getting close) Freeman
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Someone in Sacramento Ca. Area? |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Ben <tbs677@yahoo.com>
I searched the aircraft registry from the picture obtained in the link. The FAA
list N235RJ as a CH-801 with a certificate issue date of 9/17/2002. The owner
is listed as Jarrett R. Douglas. The manufacturer is listed as MITCHELL A.
The engine manufacturer is listed as AMA/EXPR and the engine type is listed
as UNKNOWN ENG. It's too soon for the accident to be listed on the NTSB site.
---------------------------------
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Someone in Sacramento Ca. Area? |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: tongaloa <tongaloa@alltel.net>
Looks like this Walter powered...
http://www.zenithair.com/stolch801/engine-walter-lom.html
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Coolant type and quantitites |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Don Walker" <dwalk3dw@msn.com>
I'm using a Havoline Dex-Cool. Use something with good aluminum protection.
You might do better with a 20% or 25% solution of coolant to 75% water in
the summer. Don HDS-TD Stratus
do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: <STEFREE@aol.com>
Subject: Zenith-List: Coolant type and quantitites
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: STEFREE@aol.com
>
> Good morning all,
>
> I am at the exciting phase of actually starting my engine! I was
wondering
> if any of you Stratus drivers could advise what type and an approximate
> quantity of coolant to use for the cooling system. I understand it should
be
> a mix of 50% anti-freeze to 50% water, but does anyone have a suggestion
of
> what type to use? I am installing a pretty standard set-up, with the VW
> radiator hung under the airframe and was just wondering how much it should
> take to fill the system.
>
> Thanks for you help in advance,
>
> Steve (getting close) Freeman
>
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Someone in Sacramento Ca. Area? |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: John Mireley <mireley@pilot.msu.edu>
Ben wrote:
>--> Zenith-List message posted by: Ben <tbs677@yahoo.com>
>
>I searched the aircraft registry from the picture obtained in the link. The FAA
list N235RJ as a CH-801 with a certificate issue date of 9/17/2002. The owner
is listed as Jarrett R. Douglas. The manufacturer is listed as MITCHELL A.
The engine manufacturer is listed as AMA/EXPR and the engine type is listed
as UNKNOWN ENG. It's too soon for the accident to be listed on the NTSB site.
>
>
>
>
This is the plane, the engine is a LOM in line six, Art Mitchell of
Flypass is the builder.
http://www.zenithair.com/stolch801/construction/engine/LOM-2.jpg
http://www.zenithair.com/stolch801/builder-pics/fp-11.jpg
http://www.flypass.com/
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel Pump - Aux Tanks... |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Leo J. Corbalis" <l.corbalis@worldnet.att.net>
From dumb experience, don't delete a shutoff valve to the wing tanks if
there is ANY POSSIBLE way for the fuel to back flow from main tanks to the
wing tanks. I have a very rough spot in the asphalt under my right wing in
my parking spot!
Leo Corbalis
----- Original Message -----
From: "Don Honabach" <don@pcperfect.com>
Subject: Zenith-List: Fuel Pump - Aux Tanks...
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Don Honabach" <don@pcperfect.com>
>
> Hey Guys,
>
> I'm trying to work out the details for a 'keep it simple' installation
> that will connect my wing tanks to my primary fuselage tank.
>
> In short, I just want my two wing tanks to fill my primary header tank
> which will be controlled by Left and Right Fuel Pump Switches. In order
> to keep the fuel line runs simple my thought was to get 2 - Facet 40171
> Solid State Fuel Pumps which have a built in check and foot valve so
> that the fuel will not flow in either direction unless the pump is
> turned on. Since these units won't permit fuel to flow in either
> direction unless on, this would also eliminate my need to install a
> manual fuel shutoff valve.
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | Don Walker's post on valve guides |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Weston, Jim" <Jim.Weston@delta.com>
I have a tough time believing the valve guide too tall theory. I'm one of
the original group to have the valve guide failure. I took the valves out
and inspected things, which included the valve seals. If the top of the
valve guide was being hit and pushing the guide out of the head, the rocker
arm would have to hit the top of the valve seal. The was no sign of damage
to any of the valve seals.
Jim Weston
McDonough, GA
-----Original Message-----
From: Don Walker [mailto:dwalk3dw@msn.com]
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Don Walker's post on valve guides
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Don Walker" <dwalk3dw@msn.com>
Subject: Guides: I just received this from Ron at Ramengines.com
Don
Thanks for the info and this sounds fine with me.
FYI- More info on Franks heads, we did find loose guides and one knurled but
I think the biggest problem is that they where installed at the stock
height. With the camshaft being reground to larger lifts (.250 is the
largest on a regrind, that's .388 at the valve) the bottom of the retainer
is hitting the top of the guide as the engine gains rpm. This will push the
guide threw the retaining ring and grip the valve at the radius of the
valve. Also we do not use seals with our guides because they are hand honed
to fit. Also, think about the angle the guide is in when mounted on the
engine, gravity says fall out not in.
Ron
----- Original Message -----
From: "George Swinford" <grs-pms@attbi.com>
Subject: Zenith-List: Don Walker's post on valve guides
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "George Swinford" <grs-pms@attbi.com>
>
> Don:
>
> Great information! Thanks for taking the time to post it.
>
> George Swinford
>
> Do not archive.
>
>
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel Pump - Aux Tanks... |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Wayne McIntosh" <mcintosh3017@insightbb.com>
Don,
The most simple 3 tank fuel system that I have seen is on the Ercoupe.
The main tank gravity feeds the carburetor and the engune driven fuel pump
draws fuel from the wing tanks and refills the main tank. There is a
restriction in the output line from the fuel pump to the main which allows
slightly more fuel to flow than the engine can use at full throttle. There
is a drain back to the wing tanks that is near the top of the main tank.
There is only one shut off valve and that is on the main tank. To fly an
Ercoupe you fill the main tank and if needed the wing tanks and turn on the
fuel and start the engine, the main stays full till the wing tanks run
completely dry, then the fuel level in the main tank starts to go down. If
the fuel pump quits the main starts to go down before it should and you know
you need to land in an hour or so. I do not know if a facet pump can run dry
and not be damaged.
Wayne McIntosh Lafayette IN
----- Original Message -----
From: "Don Honabach" <don@pcperfect.com>
Subject: Zenith-List: Fuel Pump - Aux Tanks...
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Don Honabach" <don@pcperfect.com>
>
> Hey Guys,
>
> I'm trying to work out the details for a 'keep it simple' installation
> that will connect my wing tanks to my primary fuselage tank.
>
> In short, I just want my two wing tanks to fill my primary header tank
> which will be controlled by Left and Right Fuel Pump Switches. In order
> to keep the fuel line runs simple my thought was to get 2 - Facet 40171
> Solid State Fuel Pumps which have a built in check and foot valve so
> that the fuel will not flow in either direction unless the pump is
> turned on. Since these units won't permit fuel to flow in either
> direction unless on, this would also eliminate my need to install a
> manual fuel shutoff valve.
>
> My main concern is that the lack of manual fuel shutoff valve might
> raise some concerns during the inspection period since it seems like the
> need for a shutdown valve is a major given. However, in this case, I
> can't see why one would be needed and it would further simplify the
> plumbing if one wasn't used on the aux to main fuel tank connections.
>
> Thanks in advance for everyone's help.
>
> Regards,
> Don Honabach
> Tempe, AZ - 601HDS
> http://zodiac.pcperfect.com
>
>
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Don Walker's post on valve guides |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Don Walker" <dwalk3dw@msn.com>
Hi Jim,
Yeah, I talked to an engineer friend yesterday who flies a gyro with
Subaru power, and he didn't buy that either; especially since I don't run
mine above 4800 rpm with my prop setting. Don
do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: "Weston, Jim" <Jim.Weston@delta.com>
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Don Walker's post on valve guides
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Weston, Jim" <Jim.Weston@delta.com>
>
> I have a tough time believing the valve guide too tall theory. I'm one of
> the original group to have the valve guide failure. I took the valves out
> and inspected things, which included the valve seals. If the top of the
> valve guide was being hit and pushing the guide out of the head, the
rocker
> arm would have to hit the top of the valve seal. The was no sign of
damage
> to any of the valve seals.
>
> Jim Weston
> McDonough, GA
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Don Walker [mailto:dwalk3dw@msn.com]
> To: zenith-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Don Walker's post on valve guides
>
>
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Don Walker" <dwalk3dw@msn.com>
>
> Subject: Guides: I just received this from Ron at Ramengines.com
>
>
> Don
> Thanks for the info and this sounds fine with me.
> FYI- More info on Franks heads, we did find loose guides and one knurled
but
> I think the biggest problem is that they where installed at the stock
> height. With the camshaft being reground to larger lifts (.250 is the
> largest on a regrind, that's .388 at the valve) the bottom of the retainer
> is hitting the top of the guide as the engine gains rpm. This will push
the
> guide threw the retaining ring and grip the valve at the radius of the
> valve. Also we do not use seals with our guides because they are hand
honed
> to fit. Also, think about the angle the guide is in when mounted on the
> engine, gravity says fall out not in.
> Ron
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "George Swinford" <grs-pms@attbi.com>
> To: <zenith-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Zenith-List: Don Walker's post on valve guides
>
>
> > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "George Swinford" <grs-pms@attbi.com>
> >
> > Don:
> >
> > Great information! Thanks for taking the time to post it.
> >
> > George Swinford
> >
> > Do not archive.
> >
> >
>
>
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Someone in Sacramento Ca. Area? |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Brenton Battles <brentbattles@charter.net>
This was the 801 I saw under construction by Art Mitchell of Flypass
when I visited Waterloo Airport in April of 2000
to get some flying time in one of the flying school's 601s prior to my
first flight. This airplane had made many flights
to Sun 'n Fun, Oshkosh, and the like prior to its sale.
Brent Battles N16BZ 601HD
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel Pump - Aux Tanks... |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Peter Dunning" <peterd@metec.co.nz>
Hi Don,
This subject comes up from time to time.
What prompts me to respond is that Wayne's
recent reply was very good (IMHO) re the ercoupe
solution and I have just read about another forced
landing through mis-use of fuel selector valves.
It seems to me that the KISS principle (Simple)
for pilot operation is an important consideration.
After a lot of reading and discussion, I concluded
that the Ercoupe solution, with modification,
offered the best way forward for my 601. So my comments
are directed at that machine and the use of LE
tanks plus a header tank.
I used a header tank: (8 gal) with visual site gauge
and shut-off valve feeding the engine via gascolator
and 2 parallel pumps (one being engine driven)
My header tank is fed by a FACET pump in each
wing adjacent to each LE wing tank. ie they are self
priming because they are basically level with each
tank outlet. Course finger filters are in each LE tank outlet.
From each wing pump they separately
feed to the TOP of the header tank via Purolater
visual filters. There NO selector valves and I can
see fuel (or otherwise) in either filter from either seat.
The very top of the header tank has a small vent
to the outside world via appropriate tubing for
pressure equalisation.
I am using a PPAV (pillar point avionics) controller
for the two FACET pumps and this operates from
two optical sensors in the header tank....Max and
minimum. The fuel transfer is automatic, however
the ppav also has manual control if my visual
header gauge indicates a low fuel level.
For super-redundancy, I have separate manual
override switches for each FACET and this provides
power directly to each pump in the unlikely event
of controller failure.
The bonus of this is the controller checks the circuitry
of each pump on power-up and enunciates the results
on the panel AND if either pump runs dry, the controller
detects this via current frequency change and
switches it off (plus enunciates the failure)
Like the Ercoupe, I have gravity feed
from the header tank and reserve therein.
This is a plea for avoiding selector valves and
reducing pilot work-load. (whilst not offending listers)
Hope this helps.
Soft landings
Peter Dunning
CH601HD/912S
Do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: Don Honabach <don@pcperfect.com>
Subject: Zenith-List: Fuel Pump - Aux Tanks...
>--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Don Honabach" <don@pcperfect.com>
>
>Hey Guys,
>
>I'm trying to work out the details for a 'keep it simple' installation
>that will connect my wing tanks to my primary fuselage tank.
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