---------------------------------------------------------- Zenith-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Fri 03/28/03: 17 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 06:03 AM - Re: CH601XL horizontal stabiliser problems (Scott Laughlin) 2. 07:35 AM - Re: cable tension (dan john) 3. 07:40 AM - Re: cable tension site (Benford2@aol.com) 4. 09:30 AM - Re: cable tension site (Cy Galley) 5. 09:32 AM - Return Tanks et al (Tony Ring) 6. 09:40 AM - Re: cable tension site (dan john) 7. 10:23 AM - Re: cable tension site (Jon Croke) 8. 11:08 AM - Re: cable tension site (David Barth) 9. 11:48 AM - Re: cable tension (Larry McFarland) 10. 11:59 AM - Re: cable tension site (Larry McFarland) 11. 12:43 PM - Re: cable tension site (Cy Galley) 12. 01:08 PM - Re: CH601XL horizontal stabiliser problems (Wayne Glasser) 13. 01:42 PM - E-Mail stuff up (Wayne Glasser) 14. 02:34 PM - Re: cable tension site (Benford2@aol.com) 15. 04:08 PM - Re: cable tension site (Larry McFarland) 16. 04:23 PM - Re: E-Mail stuff up (Benford2@aol.com) 17. 05:02 PM - Re: cable tension site (dan john) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 06:03:35 AM PST US From: "Scott Laughlin" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: CH601XL horizontal stabiliser problems --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Scott Laughlin" Wayne: You have the serial number after mine - I have 5074. We are at nearly the same point in construction, I just hope I can keep up with you! I have made the part you are asking about from scratch and I wouldn't have a problem putting a radius on the top to get more edge distance for the top row of rivets, but I would make sure you have 104 mm from the top of the spar to the bottom of the bracket as shown on drawing 6-T-2 on the right side of the drawing. Also, be sure to go to the zenith builder site and take a look at the new photo manuals. The manuals I received for the elevator and stabilizer construction were "No Bueno Por Caca" as they say on South Texas. The new photo manual on the zenith site has lots of good pictures and commentary on the construction. From the photos, I doubt they got 8 to 10 mm on edge distance and if you look at page 9 of 12 in the new photo assembly manual, it states "NOTE: it is acceptable to have less than minimum edge distance on the two end holes." this referring to where the ribs are attached to the spar. Good luck and keep me informed on your progress. Check my web site (noted in my signature) from time to time for my progress. G'day, Scott Laughlin 601XL, S/N 5074 Omaha, Nebraska http://www.cooknwithgas.com ----Original Message Follows---- From: "Wayne Glasser" Subject: Zenith-List: CH601XL horizontal stabiliser problems --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Wayne Glasser" Would anyone who has constructed the 601XL horizonal stabiliser mind advising me how they achieved the 8mm minimum edge distance (on both the rear spar attach bracket and upper doubler) on the upper 5 rivet holes. I am having trouble getting more than 6.9mm using the dimensions from the construction drawings without filing a radius on the upper edge of the rear spar attach. Regards Wayne Glasser Sydney - Australia S/No. 5075 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 07:35:29 AM PST US From: dan john Subject: Re: Zenith-List: cable tension --> Zenith-List message posted by: dan john Larry,I can`t seem to open your site.I get the first page but can`t go any farther.An Email useing the webmaster on your site does`nt seem to work for me eather.Rats. John,(601HD willbe builder) --- Larry McFarland wrote: > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Larry McFarland" > > > Doug, > It shouldn't be hard or expensive to tension cables. > I built a tenson gage > quite easily using cable bearings from an over head > door and two pieces > of 4130. Cost $15. and very accurate as calibrated. > You can find it on my website www.macsmachine.com > Larry McFarland - 601hds > ----- Original Message ----- > Subject: Zenith-List: cable tension > > > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Doug Mattson" > > > > > How do you measure control cable tension? > > Doug Mattson 601XL > > > > Contributions > any other > Forums. > > latest messages. > List members. > > http://www.matronics.com/subscription > http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Zenith-List.htm > Digests:http://www.matronics.com/digest/zenith-list > http://www.matronics.com/archives > http://www.matronics.com/photoshare > http://www.matronics.com/emaillists > > > > > http://platinum.yahoo.com ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 07:40:20 AM PST US From: Benford2@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: cable tension site --> Zenith-List message posted by: Benford2@aol.com In a message dated 3/28/2003 8:36:21 AM Mountain Standard Time, ballmell@yahoo.com writes: > message posted by: dan john > > Larry,I can`t seem to open your site.I get the first > page but can`t go any farther.An Email useing the > webmaster on your site does`nt seem to work for me > eather.Rats. John,(601HD willbe builder) > --- Larry McFarland wrote: > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Larry McFarland" > > > Same here,. I couldn't get past the frist page either. But I have to admit the first page is WELL done !!!!! I hope his cable tensioner works better then the site does. do not archive ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 09:30:48 AM PST US From: "Cy Galley" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: cable tension site --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Cy Galley" I had no problem. Click on the "tools, Jigging & Handling on the left side, Then click on cable tools. This brings up pictures of the Cable tensioner, Click on each as they show how it is made, and how to calibrate it. Cy Galley - Bellanca Champion Club Newsletter Editor & EAA TC www.bellanca-championclub.com We support Aeroncas ----- Original Message ----- From: Subject: Re: Zenith-List: cable tension site > --> Zenith-List message posted by: Benford2@aol.com > > In a message dated 3/28/2003 8:36:21 AM Mountain Standard Time, > ballmell@yahoo.com writes: > > > > message posted by: dan john > > > > Larry,I can`t seem to open your site.I get the first > > page but can`t go any farther.An Email useing the > > webmaster on your site does`nt seem to work for me > > eather.Rats. John,(601HD willbe builder) > > --- Larry McFarland wrote: > > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Larry McFarland" > > > > > > > Same here,. I couldn't get past the frist page either. But I have to admit > the first page is WELL done !!!!! I hope his cable tensioner works better > then the site does. > > > do not archive > > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 09:32:40 AM PST US From: Tony Ring Subject: Zenith-List: Return Tanks et al --> Zenith-List message posted by: Tony Ring Recent posts regarding the need for fuel return lines and such.... Excellent articles on fuel system design considerations such as these and many others at http://ellison-tbi.com/ Check it out. The FAQ section is a great place to start. Tony http://platinum.yahoo.com ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 09:40:24 AM PST US From: dan john Subject: Re: Zenith-List: cable tension site --> Zenith-List message posted by: dan john Thats the problem,the only thing on the left is MMD,nothing under it.John --- Cy Galley wrote: > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Cy Galley" > > > I had no problem. Click on the "tools, Jigging & > Handling on the left side, > Then click on cable tools. This brings up pictures > of the Cable tensioner, > Click on each as they show how it is made, and how > to calibrate it. > > Cy Galley - Bellanca Champion Club > Newsletter Editor & EAA TC > www.bellanca-championclub.com > We support Aeroncas > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Subject: Re: Zenith-List: cable tension site > > > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: > Benford2@aol.com > > > > In a message dated 3/28/2003 8:36:21 AM Mountain > Standard Time, > > ballmell@yahoo.com writes: > > > > > > > message posted by: dan john > > > > > > Larry,I can`t seem to open your site.I get the > first > > > page but can`t go any farther.An Email useing > the > > > webmaster on your site does`nt seem to work for > me > > > eather.Rats. John,(601HD willbe builder) > > > --- Larry McFarland > wrote: > > > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Larry > McFarland" > > > > > > > > > > > Same here,. I couldn't get past the frist page > either. But I have to admit > > the first page is WELL done !!!!! I hope his cable > tensioner works better > > then the site does. > > > > > > do not archive > > > > > > > > Contributions > any other > Forums. > > latest messages. > List members. > > http://www.matronics.com/subscription > http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Zenith-List.htm > Digests:http://www.matronics.com/digest/zenith-list > http://www.matronics.com/archives > http://www.matronics.com/photoshare > http://www.matronics.com/emaillists > > > > > http://platinum.yahoo.com ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 10:23:13 AM PST US From: "Jon Croke" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: cable tension site --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jon Croke" Hi, I used to have this same problem with his site: It uses FLASH software plug -in... and IE explorer often gets hung-up and confused... Solution: EXIT from your Explorer window COMPLETELY, restart Explorer and it may now work! If it still doesnt, FLASH is supposed to be downloaded automatically, with your blessing. Larry has a WONDERFUL sight, one of the BEST, IMHO, but it needs a way to 'skip' the Flash option for those of us with slow or otherwise non-suitable browser connections! Good luck ! Jon Do not archive ----- Original Message ----- From: "dan john" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: cable tension site > --> Zenith-List message posted by: dan john > > Thats the problem,the only thing on the left is > MMD,nothing under it.John > --- Cy Galley wrote: > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Cy Galley" > > > > > > I had no problem. Click on the "tools, Jigging & > > Handling on the left side, > > Then click on cable tools. This brings up pictures > > of the Cable tensioner, > > Click on each as they show how it is made, and how > > to calibrate it. > > > > Cy Galley - Bellanca Champion Club > > Newsletter Editor & EAA TC > > www.bellanca-championclub.com > > We support Aeroncas > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: > > To: > > Subject: Re: Zenith-List: cable tension site > > > > > > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: > > Benford2@aol.com > > > > > > In a message dated 3/28/2003 8:36:21 AM Mountain > > Standard Time, > > > ballmell@yahoo.com writes: > > > > > > > > > > message posted by: dan john > > > > > > > > Larry,I can`t seem to open your site.I get the > > first > > > > page but can`t go any farther.An Email useing > > the > > > > webmaster on your site does`nt seem to work for > > me > > > > eather.Rats. John,(601HD willbe builder) > > > > --- Larry McFarland > > wrote: > > > > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Larry > > McFarland" > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Same here,. I couldn't get past the frist page > > either. But I have to admit > > > the first page is WELL done !!!!! I hope his cable > > tensioner works better > > > then the site does. > > > > > > > > > do not archive > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Contributions > > any other > > Forums. > > > > latest messages. > > List members. > > > > http://www.matronics.com/subscription > > http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Zenith-List.htm > > Digests:http://www.matronics.com/digest/zenith-list > > http://www.matronics.com/archives > > http://www.matronics.com/photoshare > > http://www.matronics.com/emaillists > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://platinum.yahoo.com > > ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 11:08:55 AM PST US From: David Barth Subject: Re: Zenith-List: cable tension site --> Zenith-List message posted by: David Barth Anyone having problems with Larry's website might want to try another browser if they have one on their computer. I don't know why they can't standardize things but my guess is... MICROSOFT. I keep netscape and explorer on my computer and can now access all sites that don't work with one or the other. There is also Mozilla. Netscape and Mozilla are free downloads. I wouldn't want Larry to change a thing about his site and would go out of my way to access what is there. FWIW. David > > > Larry,I can`t seem to open your site.I get the > first > > > page but can`t go any farther.An Email useing > the > > > webmaster on your site does`nt seem to work for > me > > > eather.Rats. John,(601HD willbe builder) > > > --- Larry McFarland ===== David Barth 601 XL Plansbuilder Currently making parts. Stab and Rudder waiting for skins http://platinum.yahoo.com ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 11:48:53 AM PST US From: "Larry McFarland" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: cable tension --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Larry McFarland" John, Don't dispare, you need to download the flash player from Macromedia's site. It's a freebe and hopefully your answer. My machine at work did the same thing as result of a Microsoft update. Don't download anything but the "flash player" tho. Let me know how it goes. Larry ----- Original Message ----- From: "dan john" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: cable tension > --> Zenith-List message posted by: dan john > > Larry,I can`t seem to open your site.I get the first > page but can`t go any farther.An Email useing the > webmaster on your site does`nt seem to work for me > eather.Rats. John,(601HD willbe builder) > --- Larry McFarland wrote: > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Larry McFarland" > > > > > > Doug, > > It shouldn't be hard or expensive to tension cables. > > I built a tenson gage > > quite easily using cable bearings from an over head > > door and two pieces > > of 4130. Cost $15. and very accurate as calibrated. > > You can find it on my website www.macsmachine.com > > Larry McFarland - 601hds > > ----- Original Message ----- > > Subject: Zenith-List: cable tension > > > > > > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Doug Mattson" > > > > > > > > How do you measure control cable tension? > > > Doug Mattson 601XL > > > > > > > > Contributions > > any other > > Forums. > > > > latest messages. > > List members. > > > > http://www.matronics.com/subscription > > http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Zenith-List.htm > > Digests:http://www.matronics.com/digest/zenith-list > > http://www.matronics.com/archives > > http://www.matronics.com/photoshare > > http://www.matronics.com/emaillists > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://platinum.yahoo.com > > ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 11:59:02 AM PST US From: "Larry McFarland" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: cable tension site --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Larry McFarland" Cy, Somewhere in a Microsoft update, people are loosing the Macromedia Flash Player It can be had by a quick and painless download from http://www.macromedia.com/shockwave/download/download.cgi?P1_Prod_Version=Sh ockwaveFlash My machine at work had the same problem several months ago. It's a freebe and takes about 15 seconds. Larry C. McFarland @ www.macsmachine.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Cy Galley" > I had no problem. Click on the "tools, Jigging & Handling on the left side, > Then click on cable tools. This brings up pictures of the Cable tensioner, > Click on each as they show how it is made, and how to calibrate it. > > Cy Galley - Bellanca Champion Club > Newsletter Editor & EAA TC > www.bellanca-championclub.com > We support Aeroncas > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Subject: Re: Zenith-List: cable tension site > > > > > message posted by: dan john > > > > > > Larry,I can`t seem to open your site.I get the first > > > page but can`t go any farther.An Email useing the > > > webmaster on your site does`nt seem to work for me > > > eather.Rats. John,(601HD willbe builder) > > > --- Larry McFarland wrote: > > > > > > > Same here,. I couldn't get past the frist page either. But I have to admit > > the first page is WELL done !!!!! I hope his cable tensioner works better > > then the site does. ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 12:43:52 PM PST US From: "Cy Galley" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: cable tension site --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Cy Galley" I use Internet Explorer 6.0 and it works fine. ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Barth" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: cable tension site > --> Zenith-List message posted by: David Barth > > Anyone having problems with Larry's website might want > to try another browser if they have one on their > computer. I don't know why they can't standardize > things but my guess is... MICROSOFT. I keep netscape > and explorer on my computer and can now access all > sites that don't work with one or the other. There is > also Mozilla. Netscape and Mozilla are free > downloads. I wouldn't want Larry to change a thing > about his site and would go out of my way to access > what is there. > FWIW. > David > > > > > > Larry,I can`t seem to open your site.I get the > > first > > > > page but can`t go any farther.An Email useing > > the > > > > webmaster on your site does`nt seem to work for > > me > > > > eather.Rats. John,(601HD willbe builder) > > > > --- Larry McFarland > > ===== > David Barth > 601 XL Plansbuilder > Currently making parts. > Stab and Rudder waiting for skins > > http://platinum.yahoo.com > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 01:08:56 PM PST US From: "Wayne Glasser" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: CH601XL horizontal stabiliser problems --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Wayne Glasser" Scott Thanks for the contact, nice photos and web site. Where abouts are you located? I have spent a lot of time around LA and Phoenix. My reading on the 6-T-2 drawing is that the 104mm is the height of the bracket not the distance from the spar. On my drawing the upper dimension lead line visibly extends to the top of the bracket not the inside of the spar doubler. I will say it in english. The manuals are shit and the tolerance of the supplied parts are probably worse than the manuals! I get a bit frustrated when its not physically possible to achieve what the manual says you have to do. I did my apprenticeship many years ago as an AME and we were taught that accidents happen when you don't follow instructions and go outside the designers specifications. I will be interested in the results of the accident report on the '801 that crashed a few weeks back, from what I have seen described it sounds like an inflight breakup. Did you make your elevator cutout channel to their dimensions or to fit your elevators. I had to shim the supplied one by more than 0.040" to stop it pulling the elevator skins down. The end caps on your trim tab are neat, I didn't like the idea of just having flow thru ventilation either. Do you have any drawings/dimension for the caps as I am interested in making a pair for both my trim tabs. Regards Wayne Glasser Sydney - Australia ----- Original Message ----- From: "Scott Laughlin" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: CH601XL horizontal stabiliser problems > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Scott Laughlin" > > Wayne: > > You have the serial number after mine - I have 5074. We are at nearly the > same point in construction, I just hope I can keep up with you! I have made > the part you are asking about from scratch and I wouldn't have a problem > putting a radius on the top to get more edge distance for the top row of > rivets, but I would make sure you have 104 mm from the top of the spar to > the bottom of the bracket as shown on drawing 6-T-2 on the right side of the > drawing. Also, be sure to go to the zenith builder site and take a look at > the new photo manuals. The manuals I received for the elevator and > stabilizer construction were "No Bueno Por Caca" as they say on South Texas. > > The new photo manual on the zenith site has lots of good pictures and > commentary on the construction. From the photos, I doubt they got 8 to 10 > mm on edge distance and if you look at page 9 of 12 in the new photo > assembly manual, it states "NOTE: it is acceptable to have less than > minimum edge distance on the two end holes." this referring to where the > ribs are attached to the spar. > > Good luck and keep me informed on your progress. Check my web site (noted in > my signature) from time to time for my progress. > > G'day, > > Scott Laughlin > 601XL, S/N 5074 > Omaha, Nebraska > http://www.cooknwithgas.com > > > ----Original Message Follows---- > From: "Wayne Glasser" > To: > Subject: Zenith-List: CH601XL horizontal stabiliser problems > Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2003 12:02:08 +1100 > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Wayne Glasser" > > Would anyone who has constructed the 601XL horizonal stabiliser mind > advising me how they achieved the 8mm minimum edge distance (on both the > rear spar attach bracket and upper doubler) on the upper 5 rivet holes. I > am having trouble getting more than 6.9mm using the dimensions from the > construction drawings without filing a radius on the upper edge of the rear > spar attach. > > Regards > > Wayne Glasser > Sydney - Australia > S/No. 5075 > > ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 01:42:45 PM PST US From: "Wayne Glasser" Subject: Zenith-List: E-Mail stuff up --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Wayne Glasser" I apologies if my previously posted e-mail offended anyone especially those who have been of great help at ZAC. It was meant to be a private forward and not publicly posted. Wayne Glasser Sydney - Australia ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 02:34:50 PM PST US From: Benford2@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: cable tension site --> Zenith-List message posted by: Benford2@aol.com In a message dated 3/28/2003 10:41:00 AM Mountain Standard Time, ballmell@yahoo.com writes: > > Thats the problem,the only thing on the left is > MMD,nothing under it.John > --- Cy Galley wrote: > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Cy Galley" > > > > > > I had no problem. Click on the "tools, Jigging & > > Handling on the left side, > > Then click on cable tools. This brings up pictures > > of the Cable tensioner, > > Click on each as they show how it is made, and how > > to calibrate it. > Same here. I found nothing to click on. Do not archive ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 04:08:43 PM PST US From: "Larry McFarland" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: cable tension site --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Larry McFarland" Doug, You've probably lost your flash player and you need to download it from the Macromedia site. It's a freebe and takes just a few seconds to get, then the menu will load up and the site will have links. This happened to me at my work machine and the same solution was used. Larry ----- Original Message ----- From: Subject: Re: Zenith-List: cable tension site > --> Zenith-List message posted by: Benford2@aol.com > > In a message dated 3/28/2003 10:41:00 AM Mountain Standard Time, > ballmell@yahoo.com writes: > > > > > > Thats the problem,the only thing on the left is > > MMD,nothing under it.John > > --- Cy Galley wrote: > > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Cy Galley" > > > > > > > > > I had no problem. Click on the "tools, Jigging & > > > Handling on the left side, > > > Then click on cable tools. This brings up pictures > > > of the Cable tensioner, > > > Click on each as they show how it is made, and how > > > to calibrate it. > > > > Same here. I found nothing to click on. > > > Do not archive > > ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 04:23:51 PM PST US From: Benford2@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: E-Mail stuff up --> Zenith-List message posted by: Benford2@aol.com In a message dated 3/28/2003 2:43:31 PM Mountain Standard Time, ku-tec@bigpond.net.au writes: > > I apologies if my previously posted e-mail offended anyone especially those > who have been of great help at ZAC. > > It was meant to be a private forward and not publicly posted. > > Wayne Glasser > Sydney - Australia > > Ya called it the way you saw it. Thats the American way. I love building my 801 but ZAC's manuals are badly in need of an overhaul. Ben Haas N801BH. ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 05:02:20 PM PST US From: dan john Subject: Re: Zenith-List: cable tension site --> Zenith-List message posted by: dan john YAHOO--it works now.That Flash Player thingamabob did it.Your right,it is a great site.Thanks gang. John --- Larry McFarland wrote: > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Larry McFarland" > > > Cy, > Somewhere in a Microsoft update, people are loosing > the Macromedia Flash > Player > It can be had by a quick and painless download from > http://www.macromedia.com/shockwave/download/download.cgi?P1_Prod_Version=Sh > ockwaveFlash > My machine at work had the same problem several > months ago. It's a freebe > and takes about 15 seconds. > Larry C. McFarland @ www.macsmachine.com > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Cy Galley" > > I had no problem. Click on the "tools, Jigging & > Handling on the left > side, > > Then click on cable tools. This brings up > pictures of the Cable > tensioner, > > Click on each as they show how it is made, and how > to calibrate it. > > > > Cy Galley - Bellanca Champion Club > > Newsletter Editor & EAA TC > > www.bellanca-championclub.com > > We support Aeroncas > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: > > To: > > Subject: Re: Zenith-List: cable tension site > > > > > > > message posted by: dan john > > > > > > > > > Larry,I can`t seem to open your site.I get the > first > > > > page but can`t go any farther.An Email useing > the > > > > webmaster on your site does`nt seem to work > for me > > > > eather.Rats. John,(601HD willbe builder) > > > > --- Larry McFarland > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Same here,. I couldn't get past the frist page > either. But I have to > admit > > > the first page is WELL done !!!!! I hope his > cable tensioner works > better > > > then the site does. > > > > Contributions > any other > Forums. > > latest messages. > List members. > > http://www.matronics.com/subscription > http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Zenith-List.htm > Digests:http://www.matronics.com/digest/zenith-list > http://www.matronics.com/archives > http://www.matronics.com/photoshare > http://www.matronics.com/emaillists > > > > > http://platinum.yahoo.com