Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 07:48 AM - Re: Holes / Access Panel Instrument Panel (g t)
2. 09:21 AM - Re: Holes / Access Panel Instrument Panel (Frank Stutzman)
3. 09:36 AM - Re: Holes / Access Panel Instrument Panel (TOMGILES@aol.com)
4. 09:53 AM - Re: Holes / Access Panel Instrument Panel (g t)
5. 10:45 AM - Re: Holes / Access Panel Instrument Panel (Frank Stutzman)
6. 11:45 AM - Re: 701 General questions (Cleone Markwell)
7. 02:22 PM - Re: Header Tank - Thanks! (HINDE,FRANK (HP-Corvallis,ex1))
8. 03:57 PM - Re: Header Tank - Thanks! (Don Honabach)
9. 05:39 PM - Re: Higher Oil Temp Readings (Leo J. Corbalis)
10. 06:59 PM - Re: Header Tank - Thanks! (caspainhower@aep.com)
11. 07:40 PM - Re: Holes / Access Panel Instrument Panel (Greg Ferris)
12. 08:12 PM - Re: 701 General questions (Peter Dunning)
13. 09:37 PM - Re: Header Tank - Thanks! (Charles Sonberg)
14. 11:29 PM - Re: Holes / Access Panel Instrument Panel (Don Gordon)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Holes / Access Panel Instrument Panel |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: g t <wauwis2002@yahoo.com>
Don,
I have not gotten permission to build yet. BUT, when I do I would look at the
instrument panels that come on the Socota aircraft. The trinidad/tobago series
have instrument panels that hinge forward from a piano hinge at the bottom.
(At least the avionics stack does this). I do not know if this is possible on
the zenith instrument panels, but it would be well worth the research effort.
Good Luck
Tom
Don Honabach <don@pcperfect.com> wrote:--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Don
Honabach"
Hey Guys,
After trying to crawl under the instrument panel today, it's obvious
that unless I shrink in a major way, working under the panel in any real
way just isn't going to happen.
Has any one installed access holes or similiar to provide access to the
instrument panel area? Any problems with doing so? Just seems like a
shame to have to de-rivet for any minor work or inspection.
Thanks,
Don Honabach
Tempe, AZ - 601HDS
---------------------------------
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Holes / Access Panel Instrument Panel |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Frank Stutzman <stutzman@stutzman.com>
On Mon, 31 Mar 2003, g t wrote:
> I have not gotten permission to build yet. BUT, when I do I would look
> at the instrument panels that come on the Socota aircraft. The
> trinidad/tobago series have instrument panels that hinge forward from a
> piano hinge at the bottom. (At least the avionics stack does this). I
> do not know if this is possible on the zenith instrument panels, but it
> would be well worth the research effort.
I also havn't gotten permission to build yet. Probably because I already
have a Bonanza to house and feed. Anyway, my Bonanza has its flight
instruments (gyros, AS, VSI, altimeter) mounted on such a swing down panel
as you describe. I have given up using it. Folding it down puts a lot of
stress on the various connections to the instruments. I have almost
always had to crawl under the panel to fix a connection that broke or
kinked due to trying to fold it down.
I've got a slipped disc in my back from being under my panel too long.
Lets be careful out there.
Frank Stutzman
Bonanza N494B "Hula Girl"
701 builder someday
Hood River, OR
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Holes / Access Panel Instrument Panel |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: TOMGILES@aol.com
I cut out the center of the instrument panel leaving a 3/4" flange all
around. I reinforced the center with two angles riveted together and to the
top and bottom of the IP. I added two more angles from the IP to the floor
with a 3" cover between them. This provided a way to get electrical cables
and fuel lines from the floor. All electrical and instrument cables go to
several connectors. This allows the IP to be easily removed for repairs.
The IP is split into a right and left section and held on by screws. Very
easy to remove for any need work. In my mind the ONLY way to go.
|
___|___
/ \
======(_______ )======
________ | o |___________________________
__|______ \ ______ /______|____________________/*
][ ][ ][
{_} {_} {_}
TomGiles@aol.com
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Holes / Access Panel Instrument Panel |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: g t <wauwis2002@yahoo.com>
Frank,
I agree that this concept could add stress to wires and connections and lead to
the problems you describe. If someone ventures into this concept, a lot of pre-planning
would be required along with having all the wires routed down to the
hinge point and securely fastened on both the moveable panel side and the fixed
side with an appropriate amount of "extra" length between these two fixed
points so that swinging the panel down does put stress on any connections other
than the tie down points.
Thanks for the warning.
Tom
Frank Stutzman <stutzman@stutzman.com> wrote:--> Zenith-List message posted by:
Frank Stutzman
On Mon, 31 Mar 2003, g t wrote:
> I have not gotten permission to build yet. BUT, when I do I would look
> at the instrument panels that come on the Socota aircraft. The
> trinidad/tobago series have instrument panels that hinge forward from a
> piano hinge at the bottom. (At least the avionics stack does this). I
> do not know if this is possible on the zenith instrument panels, but it
> would be well worth the research effort.
I also havn't gotten permission to build yet. Probably because I already
have a Bonanza to house and feed. Anyway, my Bonanza has its flight
instruments (gyros, AS, VSI, altimeter) mounted on such a swing down panel
as you describe. I have given up using it. Folding it down puts a lot of
stress on the various connections to the instruments. I have almost
always had to crawl under the panel to fix a connection that broke or
kinked due to trying to fold it down.
I've got a slipped disc in my back from being under my panel too long.
Lets be careful out there.
Frank Stutzman
Bonanza N494B "Hula Girl"
701 builder someday
Hood River, OR
---------------------------------
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Holes / Access Panel Instrument Panel |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Frank Stutzman <stutzman@stutzman.com>
On Mon, 31 Mar 2003, g t wrote:
> I agree that this concept could add stress to wires and connections and
> lead to the problems you describe. If someone ventures into this
> concept, a lot of pre-planning would be required along with having all
> the wires routed down to the hinge point and securely fastened on both
> the moveable panel side and the fixed side with an appropriate amount of
> "extra" length between these two fixed points so that swinging the panel
> down does put stress on any connections other than the tie down points.
> Thanks for the warning.
Well, as I implied, some of the instruments in my fold down panel are
air powered (ASI, VSI, altimeter, attitude indicator and directional
gyro). I think most of my problems with the panel have not been
electrical, but air (vacuum) lines getting kinked or disconnected.
The worst part is you sometimes don't notice the error until you are in
the air. I remember kinking my pitot line really good and then noticing
that (at 50 ft altitude) that my airspeed was only 20 knots.
I think I prefer the other posters suggestion for a removable panel with
good connections for everything. That way when you need to fix something
you can put it on your bench, which is a much better work environment than
your cockpit. Just don't drop it while you are doing it!
Frank Stutzman
Bonanza N494B "Hula Girl"
701 wannabe builder
Hood River, OR
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: 701 General questions |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Cleone Markwell <cleone@rr1.net>
I am using the Heat Shroud and it puts out plenty of heat. Cleone
At 06:53 PM 3/30/03 -0800, you wrote:
>--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Walt Cannon" <grnlake@earthlink.net>
>
>Greetings all,
>
>I have a couple of general questions for you 701/912 and 912S owners:
>
>1) Anyone concerned about not having carb heat? Do this engines need it
>given that they are picking up warm air from inside the cowl?
>
>2) Is anyone using the Rotax "tuned air box" on the 912S? Does it have
>provisions for carb heat?
>
>3) What size "amp-hours" and weight battery are you using for a good CG
>location. Mounted behind the large access panel or way aft in the tailcone
>like the latest drawings from ZAC show?
>
>4) Has anyone actually installed a 912S with the new "high torque" starter.
>Did you take the ZAC precautions to insure it cleared the motor mount? Any
>issues?
>
>5) How about cabin heat? Anyone used the ZAC shroud? Does it work? Anyone
>accomplish the heating with water and a heat exchanger?
>
>6) I don't really like the idea of those DZUS fasteners on the cowl with the
>angles supporting the F/G inside. Why wouldn't a big access door on top of
>the upper cowling work, with some nice stainless screws and nutplates
>securing the F/G to the skin in front of the firewall?
>
>All comments welcomed on or off the list.
>
>Thanks,
>
>Walt Cannon
>
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Header Tank - Thanks! |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "HINDE,FRANK (HP-Corvallis,ex1)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
As one of the great proponents of the wing tank only option (been flying it
for 300 hours almost) I would suggest a look in the archives.
Briefly, in aircraft you essentially want to avoid single points of failure
(impossible to do in reality but there are a few things you can do).
Run two batteries...a 18AH for your main system and a 3AH that just runs the
second igntion and 2nd fuel pump. Nothing else.
Do not interconnect these systems via a single changeover type switch (if
the switch melts your hosed!)
Charge your 2nd batt from the alternator via a diode this has two effects..
1) it prevents backflowing current to the alternator or first battery in the
event of a major short/fire.
2) drops the charging voltage by 0.8 volts (you may want two diodes I
series) to get a lower charging voltage for batt #2.
All of the above adds a couple of pounds but it significantly reduces your
risk of an engine stoppage.
Frank
-----Original Message-----
From: Bryan Martin [mailto:bryanmmartin@comcast.net]
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Header Tank - Thanks!
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Bryan Martin
--> <bryanmmartin@comcast.net>
on 3/27/03 5:00 PM, STEFREE@aol.com at STEFREE@aol.com wrote:
> In the wing tank only version, if your pumps fail, you are going
> down......Same for an electrical failure...something to think
> about.....
>
> Talk to you later,
>
> SF
With the Subaru, the ignition is also run by the electrical system. If your
engine is going to quit anyway, it's probably best if your fuel pumps stop
also. ;)
--
Bryan Martin
N61BM, CH 601 XL, Stratus Subaru.
Airframe construction complete.
Working on instrument panel, electrical and interior.
do not archive.
advertising on the Matronics Forums.
Share: Share photos & files with other List members.
Message 8
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| Subject: | Header Tank - Thanks! |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Don Honabach" <don@pcperfect.com>
Just wanted to thank everyone for all the great replies (both public and
private) about the header tank vs. just wing tanks, and the access hole
for the instrument panel. Lots of great ideas!
As for a two battery setup, is it possible to restart the engine in
response to a total primary electrical circuit failure? Since the
secondary/backup electrical circuit with the 3AMP battery isn't capable
of running the starter, I just wonder what would happen during this
critical phase.
Thanks again!!!
Don Honabach
Tempe, AZ - 601HDS
-----Original Message-----
From: HINDE,FRANK (HP-Corvallis,ex1) [mailto:frank.hinde@hp.com]
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Header Tank - Thanks!
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "HINDE,FRANK (HP-Corvallis,ex1)"
--> <frank.hinde@hp.com>
As one of the great proponents of the wing tank only option (been flying
it for 300 hours almost) I would suggest a look in the archives.
Briefly, in aircraft you essentially want to avoid single points of
failure (impossible to do in reality but there are a few things you can
do).
Run two batteries...a 18AH for your main system and a 3AH that just runs
the second igntion and 2nd fuel pump. Nothing else.
Do not interconnect these systems via a single changeover type switch
(if the switch melts your hosed!)
Charge your 2nd batt from the alternator via a diode this has two
effects..
1) it prevents backflowing current to the alternator or first battery in
the event of a major short/fire.
2) drops the charging voltage by 0.8 volts (you may want two diodes I
series) to get a lower charging voltage for batt #2.
All of the above adds a couple of pounds but it significantly reduces
your risk of an engine stoppage.
Frank
-----Original Message-----
From: Bryan Martin [mailto:bryanmmartin@comcast.net]
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Header Tank - Thanks!
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Bryan Martin
--> <bryanmmartin@comcast.net>
on 3/27/03 5:00 PM, STEFREE@aol.com at STEFREE@aol.com wrote:
> In the wing tank only version, if your pumps fail, you are going
> down......Same for an electrical failure...something to think
> about.....
>
> Talk to you later,
>
> SF
With the Subaru, the ignition is also run by the electrical system. If
your engine is going to quit anyway, it's probably best if your fuel
pumps stop also. ;)
--
Bryan Martin
N61BM, CH 601 XL, Stratus Subaru.
Airframe construction complete.
Working on instrument panel, electrical and interior.
do not archive.
advertising on the Matronics Forums.
Share: Share photos & files with other List members.
direct advertising on the Matronics Forums.
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Higher Oil Temp Readings |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Leo J. Corbalis" <l.corbalis@worldnet.att.net>
I cover part of the oil rad core with a piece of 1/8 in. thick rubber sheet
from the hardware store. A loop of safety wire holds it in place. 3
differient size rectangles should be enough. Saves messing with the hoses.
Leo Corbalis
----- Original Message -----
From: <Schallgren@aol.com>
Subject: Zenith-List: Higher Oil Temp Readings
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Schallgren@aol.com
>
> List:
>
> Bob Harrison wrote: "I've just
> modified the oil cooling circuit getting more consistently higher oil
temps."
>
> We had the same problem in that oil temps were running low in the Denver,
CO
> winter. We asked Pete if we could bypass the oil cooler by running the
> "out" side of the oil filter to the "in" side. He agreed that was a good
> fix. We did so and oil temps went back to the correct range. The
second
> flight in that configuration was during 60F+ temps so temps ran on the
high
> side and we had to change it back. Now if we can figure out how to
change
> it with valves we won't have to take the cowling off and switch hoses.
>
> My question Bob is "How did you modify your oil cooling circuit"?
>
> Stan
> 601HDS/Jabiru3300
>
>
Message 10
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| Subject: | Header Tank - Thanks! |
03/31/2003 09:55:47 PM
--> Zenith-List message posted by: caspainhower@aep.com
Don,
I've never experienced an in-flight engine failure, but airspeed
should keep the prop windmilling enough to restart once the fuel/ignition
is restored.
Craig
"Don Honabach"
<don@pcperfect.com> To: <zenith-list@matronics.com>
Sent by: cc:
owner-zenith-list-server@ma Subject: RE: Zenith-List:
Header Tank - Thanks!
tronics.com
03/31/03 06:55 PM
Please respond to
zenith-list
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Don Honabach" <don@pcperfect.com>
Just wanted to thank everyone for all the great replies (both public and
private) about the header tank vs. just wing tanks, and the access hole
for the instrument panel. Lots of great ideas!
As for a two battery setup, is it possible to restart the engine in
response to a total primary electrical circuit failure? Since the
secondary/backup electrical circuit with the 3AMP battery isn't capable
of running the starter, I just wonder what would happen during this
critical phase.
Thanks again!!!
Don Honabach
Tempe, AZ - 601HDS
-----Original Message-----
From: HINDE,FRANK (HP-Corvallis,ex1) [mailto:frank.hinde@hp.com]
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Header Tank - Thanks!
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "HINDE,FRANK (HP-Corvallis,ex1)"
--> <frank.hinde@hp.com>
As one of the great proponents of the wing tank only option (been flying
it for 300 hours almost) I would suggest a look in the archives.
Briefly, in aircraft you essentially want to avoid single points of
failure (impossible to do in reality but there are a few things you can
do).
Run two batteries...a 18AH for your main system and a 3AH that just runs
the second igntion and 2nd fuel pump. Nothing else.
Do not interconnect these systems via a single changeover type switch
(if the switch melts your hosed!)
Charge your 2nd batt from the alternator via a diode this has two
effects..
1) it prevents backflowing current to the alternator or first battery in
the event of a major short/fire.
2) drops the charging voltage by 0.8 volts (you may want two diodes I
series) to get a lower charging voltage for batt #2.
All of the above adds a couple of pounds but it significantly reduces
your risk of an engine stoppage.
Frank
-----Original Message-----
From: Bryan Martin [mailto:bryanmmartin@comcast.net]
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Header Tank - Thanks!
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Bryan Martin
--> <bryanmmartin@comcast.net>
on 3/27/03 5:00 PM, STEFREE@aol.com at STEFREE@aol.com wrote:
> In the wing tank only version, if your pumps fail, you are going
> down......Same for an electrical failure...something to think
> about.....
>
> Talk to you later,
>
> SF
With the Subaru, the ignition is also run by the electrical system. If
your engine is going to quit anyway, it's probably best if your fuel
pumps stop also. ;)
--
Bryan Martin
N61BM, CH 601 XL, Stratus Subaru.
Airframe construction complete.
Working on instrument panel, electrical and interior.
do not archive.
advertising on the Matronics Forums.
Share: Share photos & files with other List members.
direct advertising on the Matronics Forums.
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Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Holes / Access Panel Instrument Panel |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Greg Ferris" <ferret@wmtel.net>
When I installed my upper forward fuselage skin, I used rivnuts rather than
rivets so I can take the whole panel off if I need to get back there again
someday.
Greg
----- Original Message -----
From: "Don Honabach" <don@pcperfect.com>
Subject: Zenith-List: Holes / Access Panel Instrument Panel
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Don Honabach" <don@pcperfect.com>
>
> Hey Guys,
>
> After trying to crawl under the instrument panel today, it's obvious
> that unless I shrink in a major way, working under the panel in any real
> way just isn't going to happen.
>
> Has any one installed access holes or similiar to provide access to the
> instrument panel area? Any problems with doing so? Just seems like a
> shame to have to de-rivet for any minor work or inspection.
>
> Thanks,
> Don Honabach
> Tempe, AZ - 601HDS
>
>
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: 701 General questions |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Peter Dunning" <peterd@metec.co.nz>
Hi Walt,
I'm just completing a 601, but I can comment
on two items re 912S (which I'm using)
1. Carb heat. Warm air inside the cowling has
been measured at approx 10 to 15 Deg.C
above ambient..ie not that much warmer.
Temperature is not the only factor in carb icing
so go with the carb heating is my vote.
2. My 912S with tuned air manifold has provision
for selective intakes. ie two. It just requires
Panel mounted selector linkage and the warm
air source of say an exhaust shroud.
Enjoy the construction.
Cheers
Peter Dunning
CH601HD/912S
-----Original Message-----
From: Walt Cannon <grnlake@earthlink.net>
Subject: Zenith-List: 701 General questions
>--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Walt Cannon" <grnlake@earthlink.net>
>
>Greetings all,
>
>I have a couple of general questions for you 701/912 and 912S owners:
>
>1) Anyone concerned about not having carb heat? Do this engines need it
>given that they are picking up warm air from inside the cowl?
>
>2) Is anyone using the Rotax "tuned air box" on the 912S? Does it have
>provisions for carb heat?
>
>3) What size "amp-hours" and weight battery are you using for a good CG
>location. Mounted behind the large access panel or way aft in the tailcone
>like the latest drawings from ZAC show?
>
>4) Has anyone actually installed a 912S with the new "high torque" starter.
>Did you take the ZAC precautions to insure it cleared the motor mount? Any
>issues?
>
>5) How about cabin heat? Anyone used the ZAC shroud? Does it work? Anyone
>accomplish the heating with water and a heat exchanger?
>
>6) I don't really like the idea of those DZUS fasteners on the cowl with
the
>angles supporting the F/G inside. Why wouldn't a big access door on top of
>the upper cowling work, with some nice stainless screws and nutplates
>securing the F/G to the skin in front of the firewall?
>
>All comments welcomed on or off the list.
>
>Thanks,
>
>Walt Cannon
>
>
Message 13
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| Subject: | Header Tank - Thanks! |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Charles Sonberg" <2408s@cox-internet.com>
I had primary ignition fail with a stratus (and I suspect all reduction
drives) and the prop quit turning very quickly. It started very quickly with
secondary ignition. Lost only 200 ft.
Chuck
--> Zenith-List message posted by: caspainhower@aep.com
Don,
I've never experienced an in-flight engine failure, but airspeed
should keep the prop windmilling enough to restart once the fuel/ignition
is restored.
Craig
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Holes / Access Panel Instrument Panel |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Don Gordon" <dojo@polymembranepipe.com.au>
got any pictures of the installation
Don
----- Original Message -----
From: <TOMGILES@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Holes / Access Panel Instrument Panel
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: TOMGILES@aol.com
>
> I cut out the center of the instrument panel leaving a 3/4" flange all
> around. I reinforced the center with two angles riveted together and to
the
> top and bottom of the IP. I added two more angles from the IP to the
floor
> with a 3" cover between them. This provided a way to get electrical
cables
> and fuel lines from the floor. All electrical and instrument cables go to
> several connectors. This allows the IP to be easily removed for repairs.
> The IP is split into a right and left section and held on by screws. Very
> easy to remove for any need work. In my mind the ONLY way to go.
>
> |
> ___|___
> / \
> ======(_______ )======
> ________ | o |___________________________
> __|______ \ ______ /______|____________________/*
> ][ ][ ][
> {_} {_} {_}
>
> TomGiles@aol.com
>
>
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