Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 01:25 AM - Re: Holes / Access Panel Instrument Panel (owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com)
2. 06:13 AM - Re: Trouble with building 601 ailerons (David Barth)
3. 11:36 AM - Re: Landing gear (wizard-24@juno.com)
4. 01:01 PM - Re: Landing gear (CLOJAN@aol.com)
5. 03:41 PM - Re: Landing Gear (Weston & Judy Walker)
6. 04:17 PM - Re: Re: Landing Gear (Jim Frisby)
7. 04:24 PM - Re: Re: Landing Gear (Pinneo, George)
8. 04:45 PM - Re: Landing gear (wizard-24@juno.com)
9. 04:48 PM - Re: Re: Landing Gear (wizard-24@juno.com)
10. 05:16 PM - Re: Re: Landing Gear ()
11. 07:43 PM - Jabiru engines in Zenair planes (Robert Hillebrand)
12. 09:52 PM - Re: Re: Landing Gear (Gary Gower)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Holes / Access Panel Instrument Panel |
--> Zenith-List message posted by:
Hi:
I kept this in mind when installing the front top skin. I installed it using screws
instead of rivets. There are more than 100 screws and riveted-coils, but
is a worth work to do an money invested since you look at possible future changes,
modifications, fixes, etc, on your panel. You must add on your preflight
check a quick check of all screws. I make an exhaust check every 15 hours.
Yago Osset
Spain
www.osset.com/yago
Don Honabach <don@pcperfect.com> wrote:--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Don
Honabach"
Hey Guys,
After trying to crawl under the instrument panel today, it's obvious
that unless I shrink in a major way, working under the panel in any real
way just isn't going to happen.
Has any one installed access holes or similiar to provide access to the
instrument panel area? Any problems with doing so? Just seems like a
shame to have to de-rivet for any minor work or inspection.
Thanks,
Don Honabach
Tempe, AZ - 601HDS
---------------------------------
Nueva versin: Super Webcam, voz, caritas animadas, y ms #161;Gratis!
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Trouble with building 601 ailerons |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: David Barth <davids601xl@yahoo.com>
>
> I have several questions.
I have several long winded answers inserted into the
text below.
>
> 1. Did you have to do some additional trimming of
> the skin to get the tip
> rib to fit correctly?
I made my rib tip pretty much as laid out in the plans
and it didn't fit either. I drilled and clecoed the
other ribs in place and set the twist and drilled
about 3/4 of the lateral rivet line then tries to fit
the tip. I even drilled and clecoed this part to find
it didn't fit to my satisfaction . I took the skin as
the prime measurement and used my rib tip as a model
for the next one. It only took about 10 minutes to
make after I finally decided that was the way to go. I
had to add some here and remove some there but it was
the way to go. Pretty good fit now.
> 2. Was your top skin longer than in the drawings? My
> is 8mm longer. Did you
> trim it or just place the excess under the wing top
> skin?
Yes it is about 8 mm long. I talked with mark about
this and he had some sage advice. Leave it on for now
until you fit it to the wing. You will then be able
to line it up perfectly with the trailing edge of the
flap before trimming.
> 3. When you measured (from the inboard edge) did you
> come up with a 45
> degree angle for the tip? If not what did you use,
> the measurements or the
> angle? Where did you measure your angle from the top
> or bottom.
Strange but from the bottom of the aileron it did not
seem to be 45 degrees but measured from the top it
was. I think it has to do with the seat of the
protractor I was using.
> 4. Does anyone have the steps they went through to
> finish the aileron? Yes,
> I've downloaded the updated the manual pages. Zenith
> even faxed me a new
> drawing (6W2-3 Aileron Tip dtd. 03/06/03) but
> unfortunately it still doesn't
> solve my questions.
First I marked and trimed the end of the aileron. I
use an olfa knife to score and then bend after cutting
in with shears to allow me to bend along the cscore
lines. Gives great clean cuts.
Then I marked out all the rivet lines. top and bottom
Pilot drill all rivet holes with #40 top and bottom.
I then marked the centerlines on the ribs.
Fit the regular ribs in and drill with #40 through the
pilot holes into the ribs. All the bottoms first
making sure to snug the corner of the rib into the
corner of the skin. Leave all clecos in the bottom
skin. Turn over and rest on flat support on the
forward edge (high enough to allow for the clecos in
the bottom skin) I also rested the trailing edge on a
board with the OB end elevated by the 13 mm for the
washout.
Line up the ribs and drill and cleco.
Check the twist.
Drill and Cleco the lateral rivet line from the IB end
to the last regular rib. Ensure the vertical portion
of the skin with the short flange is snugged up to the
ribs as you go.
I drilled and forced the fit of the rib I had and then
used it as a template - with modifications - to make a
new tip rib with a better fit.
Once you have a good fit of the tip rib, drill and
cleco the forward face of the aileron.
That's how I did it. FWIW
> 5. Did anyone else receive a skin where the inboard
> trailing edge was not
> square? I ended up filing it down to bring to
> square. Yes, I checked both
> edges of both skins to see if I could swap them,
> unfortunately I couldn't.
>
I couldn't say as I made my own as per plans and
everything was perfectly square - until I set the
twist then it was out by 2 - 3 mm where the top and
bottom of the skin came together.
Hope this helps.
David
=====
David Barth
601 XL Plansbuilder
Currently making parts.
Stab and Rudder waiting for skins
http://tax.yahoo.com
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Landing gear |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: wizard-24@juno.com
> I not quite to the point of setting the XL on its main gear but I
> don't seem to have any information on how to attach the spindles to
the main
> gear. Does anybody know why ZAC has left this information out of the
manual and
> drawings? Any info on the attachment procedure is appreciated.
The main gear spring is held in place by inserting into the fuselage
channel, and then clamping it with L extrusions on both sides with the
provided welded gear attachment parts (I don't have the plans nearby to
refer to, so I don't recall what the parts are actually called).
As for the manual -- you'll soon learn that there's a bunch of steps it
doesn't mention. If you haven't already, check the builder's section of
ZAC's website for updated manuals & plans, and that might help.
Mike Fortunato
601XL
Just got a hangar -- ready to attach wings.
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Landing gear |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: CLOJAN@aol.com
In a message dated 4/3/2003 11:38:02 AM Pacific Standard Time,
wizard-24@juno.com writes:
> As for the manual -- you'll soon learn that there's a bunch of steps it
> doesn't mention. If you haven't already, check the builder's section of
> ZAC's website for updated manuals & plans, and that might help.
>
Thanks Mike: I see the drawings on the gear to the fuselage but I saw nothing
on mounting the spindles to the legs. I was wondering if they mount dead
center or offset because of the brakes and farings. Second question is if
they mount with only the 4 bolts on the outside of the legs or do you drill a
large hole through the leg and slip the whole spindle through the back of the
leg. I see a machined "step" in the spindle that could be for this and it
would be stronger this way. jack
Message 5
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| Subject: | RE: Landing Gear |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Weston & Judy Walker" <westonjudy@earthlink.net>
Here are a few pointers/pitfalls from my recent experience with the
601XL axles on the landing gear.
1. Nicolas at ZAC told me that the up/down position of the axle on the
landing gear is set so as to make the fuselage level when sitting on the
gear. I used measurements from my reference (the table top) to
determine this.
2. You have to carefully position the axle so that the brake will clear
the landing gear; this also requires rounding off the bottom back corner
of the landing gear leg.
3. My biggest struggle was drilling the four 1/4 holes for the bolts.
Unless you want to enlarge the four bolt holes (which seems like a bad
idea), they must be very accurately positioned and precisely square.
Because of the axle, I couldn=92t drill through the axle base. I marked
the hole positions through the axle base, then drilled. I didn=92t get it
done as accurately as I should have, and it required a lot of hand
fitting. I ended up enlarging a few of my holes, but there is no play;
the end effect is a tight fit with no wiggle.
4. There are a few pictures in the construction photos pages of the ZAC
website that gave me some hints on how it all fits together.
Next question: how do we route/secure brake lines on the XL spring gear
(any hints from the 701/801 crowd)?
Time: 09:25:40 PM PST US
From: CLOJAN@aol.com
Subject: Zenith-List: Landing gear
--> Zenith-List message posted by: CLOJAN@aol.com
I not quite to the point of setting the XL on its main gear but I don't
seem
to have any information on how to attach the spindles to the main gear.
Does
anybody know why ZAC has left this information out of the manual and
drawings? Any info on the attachment procedure is appreciated.
Jack Russell -Clovis CA
XL- Firewall connecting to Fuselage
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: RE: Landing Gear |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jim Frisby" <marslander@hotmail.com>
It can be a problem to get accurately aligned holes in the gear member for
the axle.
Here's how I did it, and it came out pretty good.
1) clamp the axle to the landing gear exactly where you want it. A long bar
clamp can be used for this, with one jaw on the end of the axle stub and the
other behind the landing gear spring. Otherwise, you can clamp the axle's
flange to the gear member with vise grip or toggle clamps.
2) the brake stator plate (at least on the 801) has a hole pattern that
matches that of the axle. Either make a sleeve, or wrap the axle with tape
until the hole in the center of the stator plate fits tightly around the
axle, near it's extended (threaded) end.
3) rotate the stator plate so it's bolt pattern is parallell to that of the
axle. Make marks on the stator plate and the tape to reference this
position, or clamp the stator in this position.
4) using a long twist drill, drill the first bolt hole, with the drill
passing thru the stator plate's bolt hole, and thru the axle stub's bolt
hole. This will cause the drill to be paralell to the axle, and should
create a perfectly aligned hole.
5) bolt the axle to the gear member at the first position, then proceed to
drill the other 3 holes.
If you have a horizontal boring machine, disregard all the above.
Jim Frisby
N801ZA
Palmer, AK
Message 7
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| Subject: | RE: Landing Gear |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Pinneo, George" <George.Pinneo@trw.com>
You might be able to find something written somewhere about "match drilling".
This is the task you're trying to accomplish. It's a routine requirement for
modern mechanical assemblies.
GGP
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Landing gear |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: wizard-24@juno.com
> Thanks Mike: I see the drawings on the gear to the fuselage but I
> saw nothing on mounting the spindles to the legs. I was wondering if
they mount
> dead center or offset because of the brakes and farings.
Ok, I see what you mean now. I had the same problem, and in fact, I ended
up emailing ZAC to get an answer. Here's a copy of that email:
My question: As for the wheels and brakes, there is absolutely nothing
in the way of instructions on how to mount those (the instruction sheet
that came with the wheel manufacturer is not very helpful). Do the wheels
mount inside or outside of the spring gear ends? Does it matter how high
the axles are mounted on the spring gear, or just the same height on both
sides? Does the bolt pattern on the axle flange get mounted horizontally,
or vertically? How are the brake lines attached when running them along
the gear into the fuselage?Again, there are no drawings to show this
setup.
ZAC's answer: The ideal location for the axle and wheel assembly on the
gear is such that the reference line on the aircraft is level. First
install the nose gear and nose wheel, then bolt the main gear leg to the
fuselage, level the fuselage, then locate the height of the the axle on
the gear spring.
MVC-671F wheel are mounted on the outboard side of the gear
spring
MVC-675F detail of right wheel, the calipers are installed at the rear
MVC-676F Detail of left wheel. Note the cutout in the gear spring to
make room for the calipers.
Axle, bolt pattern, the flat sides are vertical 1.370" between bolt
centers (square pattern)
I also attached a couple of pictures I was able to get from them that
illustrate this.
I ended up moutning the spindles in the middle, but ended up having to
grind away a significant part of the gear legs to make way for mounting
the brakes (as per their photos). The fairings is another
matter....haven't gotten to that yet, because when I ordered the fairings
a while back, they didn't even come with any mounting hardware or
instructions...just the fiberglass parts. I asked ZAC about it then, and
they said they were still working out the details. Go figure.
> Second question is if they mount with only the 4 bolts on the outside
of the legs or do
> you drill a large hole through the leg and slip the whole spindle
through the
> back of the leg. I see a machined "step" in the spindle that could be
for this
> and it would be stronger this way. jack
I surface mounted them with the 4 bolts. I believe the step on the
spindle is there to mount the wheels properly.
Mike Fortunato
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: RE: Landing Gear |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: wizard-24@juno.com
> Next question: how do we route/secure brake lines on the XL spring
> gear (any hints from the 701/801 crowd)?
I thought about routing a groove in the gear legs, but ultimately decided
against it for fear that it would weaken the spring gear too much (which
probably isn't true -- just me being paranoid). So, I used self-tapping
aluminum sprews (with pilot holes of course) with plastic clamps to hold
the brake lines along the rear of each leg. Looks OK, and seems to be
solidly mounted.
Mike Fortunato
601XL
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: RE: Landing Gear |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: <PAULROD36@msn.com>
Mike, if I recall correctly, Cessna used spring steel clamps on the rear
surface of their Wittman gear (up to about 1975), with a small indent in the
gear that it snapped into. They stayed on very well. Just a thought. When I
get to that stage, I think I'll go that way myself.
Paul Rodriguez
601 XL
----- Original Message -----
From: <wizard-24@juno.com>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: RE: Landing Gear
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: wizard-24@juno.com
>
>
> > Next question: how do we route/secure brake lines on the XL spring
> > gear (any hints from the 701/801 crowd)?
>
> I thought about routing a groove in the gear legs, but ultimately decided
> against it for fear that it would weaken the spring gear too much (which
> probably isn't true -- just me being paranoid). So, I used self-tapping
> aluminum sprews (with pilot holes of course) with plastic clamps to hold
> the brake lines along the rear of each leg. Looks OK, and seems to be
> solidly mounted.
>
> Mike Fortunato
> 601XL
>
>
Message 11
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| Subject: | Jabiru engines in Zenair planes |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Robert Hillebrand <masterbogun@yahoo.com>
I have a CH701 which I have built from plans and after 11 years I am ready to get
the motor. Any help from anyone out there? Goods and bads I need to hear about
both sides
---------------------------------
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: RE: Landing Gear |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Gary Gower <ggower_99@yahoo.com>
The Kitfox VI Uses the groove in the rear of the legs, and looks
great, a 1/4" aprox groove, will certenly not weaken the legs, they are
of the same size as the grooves for the fastening bolts. We are almost
there... it will be done, well we will decide (vote) at the moment.
I will appreciate to see some photos with other alternatives...
Thank you all in advance.
Saludos
Gary Gower
701 912S
--- wizard-24@juno.com wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: wizard-24@juno.com
>
>
> > Next question: how do we route/secure brake lines on the XL spring
> > gear (any hints from the 701/801 crowd)?
>
> I thought about routing a groove in the gear legs, but ultimately
> decided
> against it for fear that it would weaken the spring gear too much
> (which
> probably isn't true -- just me being paranoid). So, I used
> self-tapping
> aluminum sprews (with pilot holes of course) with plastic clamps to
> hold
> the brake lines along the rear of each leg. Looks OK, and seems to be
> solidly mounted.
>
> Mike Fortunato
> 601XL
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
http://tax.yahoo.com
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