Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:46 AM - Re: Cutting Extrusions / Tools (Michel Therrien)
2. 05:54 AM - Re: Got My Plans - Now I Have Questions (Michel Therrien)
3. 06:00 AM - Re: Elevator UP stop (Michel Therrien)
4. 06:57 AM - Re: Build time (Al Young)
5. 07:00 AM - Re: Got My Plans - Now I Have Questions (William Cribb)
6. 07:36 AM - Re: Cutting Extrusions / Tools (Grant Corriveau)
7. 07:36 AM - Re: Got My Plans - Now I Have Questions (Matthew Mucker)
8. 07:38 AM - more or less off-topic (Thilo Kind)
9. 07:45 AM - Cutting metal (RFG842@aol.com)
10. 08:25 AM - Re: Cutting Extrusions / Tools (Carlos Sa)
11. 09:00 AM - Re: more or less off-topic (Carlos Sa)
12. 09:13 AM - Re: Got My Plans - Now I Have Questions (CLOJAN@aol.com)
13. 09:41 AM - Re: Cutting Extrusions / Tools - Bottom line (Carlos Sa)
14. 09:54 AM - ZAC Lycoming engine mount / magneto (Jim Frisby)
15. 09:58 AM - Re: Cutting extrusions (Jim Frisby)
16. 10:27 AM - Re: ZAC Lycoming engine mount / magneto (Ed)
17. 10:28 AM - Subaru Alternator Light ? (Don Honabach)
18. 04:35 PM - Re: Subaru Alternator Light ? (Philip Polstra)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Cutting Extrusions / Tools |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Michel Therrien <mtherr@yahoo.com>
Reading this again, I noticed you want to cut it down
to 1.25".... for what model of plane is this? For the
601-HD(S), the flange should be trimmed down to 1".
If you make it longer, you'll have a hard time
installing the ribs.
Michel
--- Michel Therrien <mtherr@yahoo.com> wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Michel Therrien
> <mtherr@yahoo.com>
>
> A band saw is not great for this (imho), I used a
> table saw (i think its called). In fact, the guy
> where I buy my metal did it for me in his shop.
>
> There is a lot of filling needed afterwards.
>
> Michel
>
> --- Carlos Sa <carlosfsa@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > --> Zenith-List message posted by: Carlos Sa
> > <carlosfsa@yahoo.com>
> >
> > Hello, all
> >
> >
> > I'm ready to trim the 1.5" x 1.5" extrusions down
> to
> > 1.5" x 1.25".
=====
----------------------------
Michel Therrien CH601-HD
http://mthobby.pcperfect.com/ch601
http://www.zenithair.com/bldrlist/profiles/mthobby
http://pages.infinit.net/mthobby
http://tax.yahoo.com
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Got My Plans - Now I Have Questions |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Michel Therrien <mtherr@yahoo.com>
See below:
--- "Clifton J. Bardwell" <clif@duck.org> wrote:
>
> 2. Am I correct in presuming the dl (d-lambda) means
> overall width
> (before bending)? Does dl have any other meaning?
You're right in your interpretation. But don't rely
on the dl specified in the plans. It must depend on
which bending brake you use and often, the dl
specified is just not right. Make test pieces until
you see exacltly how you make the part and then cut
and bend the larger piece. If you use the same brake
often, you will be able to determine what dl you need
with your brake. For example, with mine, I remove 1mm
per side for the bend allowance. And when I bend a
part, I put a mark at desired lenght-1mm aligned with
a mark on my brake and make the part. It comes just
right every time.
>
> 3. Is the Balance Mass made out of Aluminum, Steel,
> Lead or ???
I don't know which model you're building, but on the
601s, the control surfaces are not balanced.
>
> 4. Can "CherryMax" rivets be used in place of the
> Avex rivets?
I guess they could, but it would be heavier and more
expensive. The plane is designed to be built with the
non-structural Avex rivets. At 0.045$ and 0.059$ per
rivet in Canadian $, they are quite affordable. You
can purchase them directly from Avdel Textron, but you
need to ask specifically for the right ones as we want
the ones produced in UK, not in the US.
There are other aircrafts designed to use those
rivets. The Murphy Rebel planes also use them.
=====
----------------------------
Michel Therrien CH601-HD
http://mthobby.pcperfect.com/ch601
http://www.zenithair.com/bldrlist/profiles/mthobby
http://pages.infinit.net/mthobby
http://tax.yahoo.com
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Elevator UP stop |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Michel Therrien <mtherr@yahoo.com>
Just a note on the elevator stop for those builders
that did not yet close their stabilizer.
If I'd build a horizontal stabilizer again, I would
install a stiffener or channel about two to three inch
forward of the rear spar to take the load from a stop
that would be attached to the upper elevator horn.
That would make a really good stop, I think.
Michel
=====
----------------------------
Michel Therrien CH601-HD
http://mthobby.pcperfect.com/ch601
http://www.zenithair.com/bldrlist/profiles/mthobby
http://pages.infinit.net/mthobby
http://tax.yahoo.com
Message 4
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Al Young" <armyret@one-eleven.net>
Michael- I'm up to 280 hours and have finished the empanage, right wing and
am just finishing the installation of the landing light on the other wing.
Have the fuel tank, strobe light to go and the second wing will be done. I
have also finished both flaps and both ailerons in that time. Al Young
601XL.
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Got My Plans - Now I Have Questions |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "William Cribb" <wscribb@centurytel.net>
Hello Clif,
The Tri-angle with the number embedded inside is ZAC's new way of
controlling the part configuration, a 0 (zero) means original design while a
1 (one) or higher would indicate the design has been revised for some
reason.
I believe in looking through the 640 website that the mass balances are made
from lead.
As for the Avex rivets, I've been ordering mine through
www.Wicksaircraft.com. I've been very happy with these. Both the A4's and
A5's are $60 per 1000. As for the sheet stock, I would recommend
www.Yardemetals.com great people to work with and very reasonable prices.
Bill Cribb
601 XL plans building
N601WC (reserved)
http://www.zenithair.com/bldrlist/profiles/wscribb/
----- Original Message -----
From: "Clifton J. Bardwell" <clif@duck.org>
Subject: Zenith-List: Got My Plans - Now I Have Questions
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Clifton J. Bardwell" <clif@duck.org>
>
> Hi List,
>
> Well, the plans arrived last weekend. It took Zenith a bit longer than
> I thought, but the wait was ok.
>
> I've been looking over the plans and getting together a shopping list
> for the rudder (seems like the best place to start).
>
> I do have some questions though.
>
> 1. Each drawing has one or more sub-drawings. Each of these has a
> number inside of a circle, which I have come to understand is the "X" of
> 640-R-5-X. However next to each number circle is a triangle with a
> number in it. I've yet to figure out what this is. I looked in the
> spec book, but it's a bit confusing on this point.
>
> 2. Am I correct in presuming the dl (d-lambda) means overall width
> (before bending)? Does dl have any other meaning?
>
> 3. Is the Balance Mass made out of Aluminum, Steel, Lead or ???
>
> 4. Can "CherryMax" rivets be used in place of the Avex rivets?
> Specifically A4 = CR3212-4-4 and A5 = CR3212-5-5. How about Cherry Q
> rivets? If not, does Zenith have a web page which I can order from
> them, or is there a website from another distributor of the Avex rivets?
>
> Well, I suppose that's enough questions for today.
>
> TIA
> Clif
> 0 hours and counting
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Cutting Extrusions / Tools |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Grant Corriveau <grantc@ca.inter.net>
>> Hello, all
>>
>>
>> I'm ready to trim the 1.5" x 1.5" extrusions down to
>> 1.5" x 1.25".
>>
>> I was thinking of renting a band saw to do this, but
>> the local rental store doesn't
Carlos,
The Super March du Metal (in Lachine) has the big saws for cutting this
stuff... maybe you could work something with them?
Regards,
Grant
Message 7
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| Subject: | Got My Plans - Now I Have Questions |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Matthew Mucker" <matthew@mucker.net>
Since others have answered as well I'll keep mine short.
>
> 1. Each drawing has one or more sub-drawings. Each of these has a
> number inside of a circle, which I have come to understand is the "X" of
> 640-R-5-X. However next to each number circle is a triangle with a
> number in it. I've yet to figure out what this is. I looked in the
> spec book, but it's a bit confusing on this point.
That's the revision number and can be pretty much ignored. I asked Mathieu
the same thing.
>
> 2. Am I correct in presuming the dl (d-lambda) means overall width
> (before bending)? Does dl have any other meaning?
You've got it.
>
> 3. Is the Balance Mass made out of Aluminum, Steel, Lead or ???
>
> 4. Can "CherryMax" rivets be used in place of the Avex rivets?
> Specifically A4 = CR3212-4-4 and A5 = CR3212-5-5. How about Cherry Q
> rivets? If not, does Zenith have a web page which I can order from
> them, or is there a website from another distributor of the Avex rivets?
Seach the archives. Since the rivets hold the plane together, this is one
area where I'd encourage you not to skimp. The advel rivets are tested to
meet certain specs. I don't think cherrymax rivets meet the same specs.
Message 8
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| Subject: | more or less off-topic |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Thilo Kind" <thilo.kind@gmx.net>
Hi folks,
I apologize in advance for that e-mail, since it is not directly related to building
a Zenith airplane. However, since this list is a great resource maybe somebody
can give me some advice.
After finishing a CH 601 HDS some time ago I need something else to build. The
recent issue of Sport Aviation featured an article about a plane called Dyke Delta.
This thing got me hooked. Unfortunately, there are almost no information
on the web. Does anybody know this airplane? I'm interested in all your opinions
regarding buidliing and flying a Dyke Delta.
Thanks a lot
Thilo Kind
Message 9
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: RFG842@aol.com
For all of you cutting everything from sheet metal to solid bars, don't
discard the trusty, multi speed saber saw. A good one has roller earings to
hold the blad somewhat true and an adjustable shoe to adjust angles.
I chuck my saw upside down in my bench vise and on occasion, bolt it to a
sheet of plywood for a larger table. With the usual thin material we use on
aircraft, the slight angle of the blade doesn't matter much with the common
practice of cutting to withing 1/16th inch and finishing on the sanding
wheel.
An added advantage is the low cost and ready availibility of blades. A
little WD40 on the work and you can zip through almost anything.
Bob
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Cutting Extrusions / Tools |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Carlos Sa <carlosfsa@yahoo.com>
Hi, Michel
I wrote the note from memory, only later checked the plans... Of course you are
correct.
BTW, Mr. Letourneau was going to trim the extrusions for me too, but we ended up
talking, and talking, and talking... and I forgot...
Regards
Carlos
CH601 HD - tail feathers done
> Reading this again, I noticed you want to cut it down
> to 1.25".... for what model of plane is this? For the
> 601-HD(S), the flange should be trimmed down to 1".
> If you make it longer, you'll have a hard time
> installing the ribs.
>
> Michel
Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: more or less off-topic |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Carlos Sa <carlosfsa@yahoo.com>
Thilo, I found a bunch of Dyke Deltas on the web. You could try and contact the
owners, or EAA.
I also found this:
Kit/Plans:
Plans for the Dyke Delta are available from:
John Dyke
2840 Old Yellow Spring Road
Fairborn, OH 45324
Telephone 937/878-9832
Dyke Delta Builders' Network Newsletter
Jim Maher
964 New Haven Ave.
Milford, CT 06460-6932
Telephone: 203/877-7840
e-mail: deltaflyer@prodigy.net
website: www.astrosurf.net/dbn
Good luck
Carlos
--- Thilo Kind <thilo.kind@gmx.net> wrote: > --> Zenith-List message posted by:
"Thilo Kind" <thilo.kind@gmx.net>
>
> Hi folks,
>
> I apologize in advance for that e-mail, since it is not directly related to
> building a Zenith airplane. However, since this list is a great resource maybe
> somebody can give me some advice.
> After finishing a CH 601 HDS some time ago I need something else to build. The
> recent issue of Sport Aviation featured an article about a plane called Dyke
> Delta. This thing got me hooked. Unfortunately, there are almost no information
on
> the web. Does anybody know this airplane? I'm interested in all your opinions
> regarding buidliing and flying a Dyke Delta.
>
> Thanks a lot
>
> Thilo Kind
>
Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Got My Plans - Now I Have Questions |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: CLOJAN@aol.com
In a message dated 4/5/2003 7:53:27 PM Pacific Standard Time, clif@duck.org
writes:
> Can "CherryMax" rivets be used in place of the Avex rivets?
Clif: Go to the builders website and look at Chris's design college. He
offers good insight on the rivets. Jack Russell
Message 13
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| Subject: | Cutting Extrusions / Tools - Bottom line |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Carlos Sa <carlosfsa@yahoo.com>
Folks, a summary of the replies received so far, on and off list:
Many favor a circular saw for straight cuts. Cool, but I don't think I'd have much
use for it after this is done. Not sure...
Some like the band saw, others, not so much. I still think it is a usefull tool
- to
me, more than the circular (table) saw.
Bob suggested a saber saw. I have one, and have considered using it. Maybe upside
down, as Bob suggested.
Grant suggested I take the material to Metal Supermarket. Lo and behold, I just
checked a receipt I have, and a footnote says: "Nouveau! Service de perage, de
pliage et d'entaillage disponible sur place" (New! Drilling, bending and ??? service
available).
Bending. Now they tell me... Sigh...
Brian Caithcart, Saskatoon, Sask., suggested I buy the correct stock! He suggested
Integris as a source of material. Guess what, they have a branch 15 minutes from
my
plase (practically around the corner from Metal Supermarket). At CDN$0.92 / foot,
seems like a decent ($), easy and fast approach!!! And, with a bit of luck, and
can
return the extrusions I have for (some) credit.
Thanks you all for your input!!!
Carlos
Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca
Message 14
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| Subject: | ZAC Lycoming engine mount / magneto |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jim Frisby" <marslander@hotmail.com>
I bought ZAC's engine mount for my CH801/Lycoming O-320. It fits the engine
and the firewall pretty well, except yesterday, I tried installing the
magnetos. The right one fits fine, but the left one hits the engine mount,
and can't be installed. These are Bendix magnetos, and the engine was built
in 1957.
Does anyone have experince in this? Is there a smaller Bendix os Slick
magneto I can substitute. I am considering going to one of the electronic
systems for the left mag. Some of them have a pickup that replaces the mag,
which looks like it would fit OK.
Jim Frisby
N801ZA
Palmer, AK
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Cutting extrusions |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jim Frisby" <marslander@hotmail.com>
If you have a sample of the material that you can experiment with, try
cutting off the extra 1/4" on a table saw with a plywood blade. I have had
good luck with it. It should work best if the blade is just high enough to
clear the material. Leave the part a 16" wide to allow for filing the edge
to exact dimensions.
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: ZAC Lycoming engine mount / magneto |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Ed" <orion@silcom.com>
Hi Jim.
I went with CDI ignition on my Lycoming 0-235, partly for weight but mainly
as the mags that came with it were not good (no core value either) I bought
the "lightspeed" system from Klaus at Santa Paula Airport and used the crank
sensor which just blanks off the mag mounting altogether. Actually ended up
with a dual system and have been very impressed with it's performance.
(Plugs are cheaper too).
He has a website which is worth reading through, many advantages with the
system, not least of which is starting with two sparks as opposed to mags
with just one. I have pics of the installation if you are interested,
contact me off list.
Ed 601hds
do not archive
Message 17
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| Subject: | Subaru Alternator Light ? |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Don Honabach" <don@pcperfect.com>
Hey Guys,
Anyone with a Subaru engine on their Zodiac know what the purpose of the
alternator light that is included with Engine/FWF kit? If I understand
the chicken scratch that was included from Stratus, this light should be
on right before you start the engine and go off afterwards. If the light
stays on, does that mean the alternator is toast, wired up wrong, or ???
Unfortunately, the docs included from Stratus and from ZAC do not
include any details to purpose of the light - just a wiring diagram and
the fact that it should be off when the engine is started.
Thanks!!!
Don Honabach
Tempe, AZ - 601HDS
Message 18
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| Subject: | Subaru Alternator Light ? |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Philip Polstra" <ppolstra@mindspring.com>
The light is on when you turn on the key, but goes out when you start the
engine and the alternator starts producing current. It must be installed or
your alternator will fail, according to Stratus.
I believe it works by looking for a voltage difference between the battery
and the alternator. I could be wrong about this.
I used to have to jump start the alternator by running up the RPM's past 2k
or so, then the voltage would jump and the light would go out. However, I
had my alternator rebuilt after it failed, and I no longer have this
"feature". Now the light goes out immediately after the engine starts.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Don Honabach
Subject: Zenith-List: Subaru Alternator Light ?
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Don Honabach" <don@pcperfect.com>
Hey Guys,
Anyone with a Subaru engine on their Zodiac know what the purpose of the
alternator light that is included with Engine/FWF kit? If I understand
the chicken scratch that was included from Stratus, this light should be
on right before you start the engine and go off afterwards. If the light
stays on, does that mean the alternator is toast, wired up wrong, or ???
Unfortunately, the docs included from Stratus and from ZAC do not
include any details to purpose of the light - just a wiring diagram and
the fact that it should be off when the engine is started.
Thanks!!!
Don Honabach
Tempe, AZ - 601HDS
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