---------------------------------------------------------- Zenith-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sun 04/06/03: 18 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 05:46 AM - Re: Cutting Extrusions / Tools (Michel Therrien) 2. 05:54 AM - Re: Got My Plans - Now I Have Questions (Michel Therrien) 3. 06:00 AM - Re: Elevator UP stop (Michel Therrien) 4. 06:57 AM - Re: Build time (Al Young) 5. 07:00 AM - Re: Got My Plans - Now I Have Questions (William Cribb) 6. 07:36 AM - Re: Cutting Extrusions / Tools (Grant Corriveau) 7. 07:36 AM - Re: Got My Plans - Now I Have Questions (Matthew Mucker) 8. 07:38 AM - more or less off-topic (Thilo Kind) 9. 07:45 AM - Cutting metal (RFG842@aol.com) 10. 08:25 AM - Re: Cutting Extrusions / Tools (Carlos Sa) 11. 09:00 AM - Re: more or less off-topic (Carlos Sa) 12. 09:13 AM - Re: Got My Plans - Now I Have Questions (CLOJAN@aol.com) 13. 09:41 AM - Re: Cutting Extrusions / Tools - Bottom line (Carlos Sa) 14. 09:54 AM - ZAC Lycoming engine mount / magneto (Jim Frisby) 15. 09:58 AM - Re: Cutting extrusions (Jim Frisby) 16. 10:27 AM - Re: ZAC Lycoming engine mount / magneto (Ed) 17. 10:28 AM - Subaru Alternator Light ? (Don Honabach) 18. 04:35 PM - Re: Subaru Alternator Light ? (Philip Polstra) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 05:46:26 AM PST US From: Michel Therrien Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Cutting Extrusions / Tools --> Zenith-List message posted by: Michel Therrien Reading this again, I noticed you want to cut it down to 1.25".... for what model of plane is this? For the 601-HD(S), the flange should be trimmed down to 1". If you make it longer, you'll have a hard time installing the ribs. Michel --- Michel Therrien wrote: > --> Zenith-List message posted by: Michel Therrien > > > A band saw is not great for this (imho), I used a > table saw (i think its called). In fact, the guy > where I buy my metal did it for me in his shop. > > There is a lot of filling needed afterwards. > > Michel > > --- Carlos Sa wrote: > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: Carlos Sa > > > > > > Hello, all > > > > > > I'm ready to trim the 1.5" x 1.5" extrusions down > to > > 1.5" x 1.25". ===== ---------------------------- Michel Therrien CH601-HD http://mthobby.pcperfect.com/ch601 http://www.zenithair.com/bldrlist/profiles/mthobby http://pages.infinit.net/mthobby http://tax.yahoo.com ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:54:27 AM PST US From: Michel Therrien Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Got My Plans - Now I Have Questions --> Zenith-List message posted by: Michel Therrien See below: --- "Clifton J. Bardwell" wrote: > > 2. Am I correct in presuming the dl (d-lambda) means > overall width > (before bending)? Does dl have any other meaning? You're right in your interpretation. But don't rely on the dl specified in the plans. It must depend on which bending brake you use and often, the dl specified is just not right. Make test pieces until you see exacltly how you make the part and then cut and bend the larger piece. If you use the same brake often, you will be able to determine what dl you need with your brake. For example, with mine, I remove 1mm per side for the bend allowance. And when I bend a part, I put a mark at desired lenght-1mm aligned with a mark on my brake and make the part. It comes just right every time. > > 3. Is the Balance Mass made out of Aluminum, Steel, > Lead or ??? I don't know which model you're building, but on the 601s, the control surfaces are not balanced. > > 4. Can "CherryMax" rivets be used in place of the > Avex rivets? I guess they could, but it would be heavier and more expensive. The plane is designed to be built with the non-structural Avex rivets. At 0.045$ and 0.059$ per rivet in Canadian $, they are quite affordable. You can purchase them directly from Avdel Textron, but you need to ask specifically for the right ones as we want the ones produced in UK, not in the US. There are other aircrafts designed to use those rivets. The Murphy Rebel planes also use them. ===== ---------------------------- Michel Therrien CH601-HD http://mthobby.pcperfect.com/ch601 http://www.zenithair.com/bldrlist/profiles/mthobby http://pages.infinit.net/mthobby http://tax.yahoo.com ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:00:33 AM PST US From: Michel Therrien Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Elevator UP stop --> Zenith-List message posted by: Michel Therrien Just a note on the elevator stop for those builders that did not yet close their stabilizer. If I'd build a horizontal stabilizer again, I would install a stiffener or channel about two to three inch forward of the rear spar to take the load from a stop that would be attached to the upper elevator horn. That would make a really good stop, I think. Michel ===== ---------------------------- Michel Therrien CH601-HD http://mthobby.pcperfect.com/ch601 http://www.zenithair.com/bldrlist/profiles/mthobby http://pages.infinit.net/mthobby http://tax.yahoo.com ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 06:57:42 AM PST US From: "Al Young" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Build time --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Al Young" Michael- I'm up to 280 hours and have finished the empanage, right wing and am just finishing the installation of the landing light on the other wing. Have the fuel tank, strobe light to go and the second wing will be done. I have also finished both flaps and both ailerons in that time. Al Young 601XL. ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 07:00:38 AM PST US From: "William Cribb" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Got My Plans - Now I Have Questions --> Zenith-List message posted by: "William Cribb" Hello Clif, The Tri-angle with the number embedded inside is ZAC's new way of controlling the part configuration, a 0 (zero) means original design while a 1 (one) or higher would indicate the design has been revised for some reason. I believe in looking through the 640 website that the mass balances are made from lead. As for the Avex rivets, I've been ordering mine through www.Wicksaircraft.com. I've been very happy with these. Both the A4's and A5's are $60 per 1000. As for the sheet stock, I would recommend www.Yardemetals.com great people to work with and very reasonable prices. Bill Cribb 601 XL plans building N601WC (reserved) http://www.zenithair.com/bldrlist/profiles/wscribb/ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Clifton J. Bardwell" Subject: Zenith-List: Got My Plans - Now I Have Questions > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Clifton J. Bardwell" > > Hi List, > > Well, the plans arrived last weekend. It took Zenith a bit longer than > I thought, but the wait was ok. > > I've been looking over the plans and getting together a shopping list > for the rudder (seems like the best place to start). > > I do have some questions though. > > 1. Each drawing has one or more sub-drawings. Each of these has a > number inside of a circle, which I have come to understand is the "X" of > 640-R-5-X. However next to each number circle is a triangle with a > number in it. I've yet to figure out what this is. I looked in the > spec book, but it's a bit confusing on this point. > > 2. Am I correct in presuming the dl (d-lambda) means overall width > (before bending)? Does dl have any other meaning? > > 3. Is the Balance Mass made out of Aluminum, Steel, Lead or ??? > > 4. Can "CherryMax" rivets be used in place of the Avex rivets? > Specifically A4 = CR3212-4-4 and A5 = CR3212-5-5. How about Cherry Q > rivets? If not, does Zenith have a web page which I can order from > them, or is there a website from another distributor of the Avex rivets? > > Well, I suppose that's enough questions for today. > > TIA > Clif > 0 hours and counting > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 07:36:05 AM PST US Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Cutting Extrusions / Tools From: Grant Corriveau --> Zenith-List message posted by: Grant Corriveau >> Hello, all >> >> >> I'm ready to trim the 1.5" x 1.5" extrusions down to >> 1.5" x 1.25". >> >> I was thinking of renting a band saw to do this, but >> the local rental store doesn't Carlos, The Super March du Metal (in Lachine) has the big saws for cutting this stuff... maybe you could work something with them? Regards, Grant ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 07:36:06 AM PST US From: "Matthew Mucker" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Got My Plans - Now I Have Questions --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Matthew Mucker" Since others have answered as well I'll keep mine short. > > 1. Each drawing has one or more sub-drawings. Each of these has a > number inside of a circle, which I have come to understand is the "X" of > 640-R-5-X. However next to each number circle is a triangle with a > number in it. I've yet to figure out what this is. I looked in the > spec book, but it's a bit confusing on this point. That's the revision number and can be pretty much ignored. I asked Mathieu the same thing. > > 2. Am I correct in presuming the dl (d-lambda) means overall width > (before bending)? Does dl have any other meaning? You've got it. > > 3. Is the Balance Mass made out of Aluminum, Steel, Lead or ??? > > 4. Can "CherryMax" rivets be used in place of the Avex rivets? > Specifically A4 = CR3212-4-4 and A5 = CR3212-5-5. How about Cherry Q > rivets? If not, does Zenith have a web page which I can order from > them, or is there a website from another distributor of the Avex rivets? Seach the archives. Since the rivets hold the plane together, this is one area where I'd encourage you not to skimp. The advel rivets are tested to meet certain specs. I don't think cherrymax rivets meet the same specs. ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 07:38:43 AM PST US From: "Thilo Kind" Subject: Zenith-List: more or less off-topic --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Thilo Kind" Hi folks, I apologize in advance for that e-mail, since it is not directly related to building a Zenith airplane. However, since this list is a great resource maybe somebody can give me some advice. After finishing a CH 601 HDS some time ago I need something else to build. The recent issue of Sport Aviation featured an article about a plane called Dyke Delta. This thing got me hooked. Unfortunately, there are almost no information on the web. Does anybody know this airplane? I'm interested in all your opinions regarding buidliing and flying a Dyke Delta. Thanks a lot Thilo Kind ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 07:45:49 AM PST US From: RFG842@aol.com Subject: Zenith-List: Cutting metal --> Zenith-List message posted by: RFG842@aol.com For all of you cutting everything from sheet metal to solid bars, don't discard the trusty, multi speed saber saw. A good one has roller earings to hold the blad somewhat true and an adjustable shoe to adjust angles. I chuck my saw upside down in my bench vise and on occasion, bolt it to a sheet of plywood for a larger table. With the usual thin material we use on aircraft, the slight angle of the blade doesn't matter much with the common practice of cutting to withing 1/16th inch and finishing on the sanding wheel. An added advantage is the low cost and ready availibility of blades. A little WD40 on the work and you can zip through almost anything. Bob ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 08:25:26 AM PST US From: Carlos Sa Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Cutting Extrusions / Tools --> Zenith-List message posted by: Carlos Sa Hi, Michel I wrote the note from memory, only later checked the plans... Of course you are correct. BTW, Mr. Letourneau was going to trim the extrusions for me too, but we ended up talking, and talking, and talking... and I forgot... Regards Carlos CH601 HD - tail feathers done > Reading this again, I noticed you want to cut it down > to 1.25".... for what model of plane is this? For the > 601-HD(S), the flange should be trimmed down to 1". > If you make it longer, you'll have a hard time > installing the ribs. > > Michel Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 09:00:03 AM PST US From: Carlos Sa Subject: Re: Zenith-List: more or less off-topic --> Zenith-List message posted by: Carlos Sa Thilo, I found a bunch of Dyke Deltas on the web. You could try and contact the owners, or EAA. I also found this: Kit/Plans: Plans for the Dyke Delta are available from: John Dyke 2840 Old Yellow Spring Road Fairborn, OH 45324 Telephone 937/878-9832 Dyke Delta Builders' Network Newsletter Jim Maher 964 New Haven Ave. Milford, CT 06460-6932 Telephone: 203/877-7840 e-mail: deltaflyer@prodigy.net website: www.astrosurf.net/dbn Good luck Carlos --- Thilo Kind wrote: > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Thilo Kind" > > Hi folks, > > I apologize in advance for that e-mail, since it is not directly related to > building a Zenith airplane. However, since this list is a great resource maybe > somebody can give me some advice. > After finishing a CH 601 HDS some time ago I need something else to build. The > recent issue of Sport Aviation featured an article about a plane called Dyke > Delta. This thing got me hooked. Unfortunately, there are almost no information on > the web. Does anybody know this airplane? I'm interested in all your opinions > regarding buidliing and flying a Dyke Delta. > > Thanks a lot > > Thilo Kind > Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 09:13:05 AM PST US From: CLOJAN@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Got My Plans - Now I Have Questions --> Zenith-List message posted by: CLOJAN@aol.com In a message dated 4/5/2003 7:53:27 PM Pacific Standard Time, clif@duck.org writes: > Can "CherryMax" rivets be used in place of the Avex rivets? Clif: Go to the builders website and look at Chris's design college. He offers good insight on the rivets. Jack Russell ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 09:41:07 AM PST US From: Carlos Sa Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Cutting Extrusions / Tools - Bottom line --> Zenith-List message posted by: Carlos Sa Folks, a summary of the replies received so far, on and off list: Many favor a circular saw for straight cuts. Cool, but I don't think I'd have much use for it after this is done. Not sure... Some like the band saw, others, not so much. I still think it is a usefull tool - to me, more than the circular (table) saw. Bob suggested a saber saw. I have one, and have considered using it. Maybe upside down, as Bob suggested. Grant suggested I take the material to Metal Supermarket. Lo and behold, I just checked a receipt I have, and a footnote says: "Nouveau! Service de perage, de pliage et d'entaillage disponible sur place" (New! Drilling, bending and ??? service available). Bending. Now they tell me... Sigh... Brian Caithcart, Saskatoon, Sask., suggested I buy the correct stock! He suggested Integris as a source of material. Guess what, they have a branch 15 minutes from my plase (practically around the corner from Metal Supermarket). At CDN$0.92 / foot, seems like a decent ($), easy and fast approach!!! And, with a bit of luck, and can return the extrusions I have for (some) credit. Thanks you all for your input!!! Carlos Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 09:54:00 AM PST US From: "Jim Frisby" Subject: Zenith-List: ZAC Lycoming engine mount / magneto --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jim Frisby" I bought ZAC's engine mount for my CH801/Lycoming O-320. It fits the engine and the firewall pretty well, except yesterday, I tried installing the magnetos. The right one fits fine, but the left one hits the engine mount, and can't be installed. These are Bendix magnetos, and the engine was built in 1957. Does anyone have experince in this? Is there a smaller Bendix os Slick magneto I can substitute. I am considering going to one of the electronic systems for the left mag. Some of them have a pickup that replaces the mag, which looks like it would fit OK. Jim Frisby N801ZA Palmer, AK ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 09:58:15 AM PST US From: "Jim Frisby" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Cutting extrusions --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jim Frisby" If you have a sample of the material that you can experiment with, try cutting off the extra 1/4" on a table saw with a plywood blade. I have had good luck with it. It should work best if the blade is just high enough to clear the material. Leave the part a 16" wide to allow for filing the edge to exact dimensions. ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 10:27:44 AM PST US From: "Ed" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: ZAC Lycoming engine mount / magneto --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Ed" Hi Jim. I went with CDI ignition on my Lycoming 0-235, partly for weight but mainly as the mags that came with it were not good (no core value either) I bought the "lightspeed" system from Klaus at Santa Paula Airport and used the crank sensor which just blanks off the mag mounting altogether. Actually ended up with a dual system and have been very impressed with it's performance. (Plugs are cheaper too). He has a website which is worth reading through, many advantages with the system, not least of which is starting with two sparks as opposed to mags with just one. I have pics of the installation if you are interested, contact me off list. Ed 601hds do not archive ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 10:28:31 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Subaru Alternator Light ? From: "Don Honabach" --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Don Honabach" Hey Guys, Anyone with a Subaru engine on their Zodiac know what the purpose of the alternator light that is included with Engine/FWF kit? If I understand the chicken scratch that was included from Stratus, this light should be on right before you start the engine and go off afterwards. If the light stays on, does that mean the alternator is toast, wired up wrong, or ??? Unfortunately, the docs included from Stratus and from ZAC do not include any details to purpose of the light - just a wiring diagram and the fact that it should be off when the engine is started. Thanks!!! Don Honabach Tempe, AZ - 601HDS ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 04:35:44 PM PST US From: "Philip Polstra" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Subaru Alternator Light ? --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Philip Polstra" The light is on when you turn on the key, but goes out when you start the engine and the alternator starts producing current. It must be installed or your alternator will fail, according to Stratus. I believe it works by looking for a voltage difference between the battery and the alternator. I could be wrong about this. I used to have to jump start the alternator by running up the RPM's past 2k or so, then the voltage would jump and the light would go out. However, I had my alternator rebuilt after it failed, and I no longer have this "feature". Now the light goes out immediately after the engine starts. -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Don Honabach Subject: Zenith-List: Subaru Alternator Light ? --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Don Honabach" Hey Guys, Anyone with a Subaru engine on their Zodiac know what the purpose of the alternator light that is included with Engine/FWF kit? If I understand the chicken scratch that was included from Stratus, this light should be on right before you start the engine and go off afterwards. If the light stays on, does that mean the alternator is toast, wired up wrong, or ??? Unfortunately, the docs included from Stratus and from ZAC do not include any details to purpose of the light - just a wiring diagram and the fact that it should be off when the engine is started. Thanks!!! Don Honabach Tempe, AZ - 601HDS --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. ---