Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:54 AM - Re: 701 Firewall Insullation (Dave Austin)
2. 07:37 AM - Re: CH-801 POH (caspainhower@aep.com)
3. 07:47 AM - Re: 701 Firewall Insullation (Pinneo, George)
4. 07:58 AM - Re: CH-801 POH (Benford2@aol.com)
5. 08:42 AM - Re: CH-801 POH (Chuck Deiterich)
6. 09:52 AM - Re: CH-801 POH (Carlson, Dale)
7. 11:01 AM - Re: EA 81 problems (HINDE,FRANK (HP-Corvallis,ex1))
8. 11:43 AM - Re: CH-801 POH (Gary Liming)
9. 02:47 PM - Re: 701 Firewall Insullation (TomLazear@netscape.net (John Lazear))
10. 04:12 PM - Re: CH-801 POH (Benford2@aol.com)
11. 07:16 PM - Re: CH-801 POH (Gary Gower)
12. 09:29 PM - Re: 701 Firewall Insullation (ABC)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: 701 Firewall Insullation |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave Austin" <daveaustin2@sprint.ca>
Mike,
I used two inch fibreglas insulation on the firewall and the first 12 inches
of the fuse side. I stripped off the onesided covering so as to eliminate
any chance of combustability. No heat comes through into the cockpit.
Dave Austin 601HDS - 912
Message 2
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04/17/2003 10:36:18 AM
--> Zenith-List message posted by: caspainhower@aep.com
Ditto for the 601 XL.
Craig Spainhower
"Carlson, Dale"
<DCarlson@mail.dese.state.m To: <zenith-list@matronics.com>
o.us> cc:
Sent by: Subject: Zenith-List:
CH-801 POH
owner-zenith-list-server@ma
tronics.com
04/15/03 05:49 PM
Please respond to
zenith-list
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Carlson, Dale"
<DCarlson@mail.dese.state.mo.us>
I wonder if anyone had put together a pilot operating handbook (POH) for
the 801. Zenith does not seem inclined to offer anything in this area. It
would be helpful if a consistent, accurate manual were available out there
in a "word" form. I am planning on starting one but don't want to rebuild
the wheel if it already exists.
Dale Carlson
N128DC
This e-mail message and all attachments transmitted with it from the
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Message 3
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| Subject: | 701 Firewall Insullation |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Pinneo, George" <George.Pinneo@trw.com>
I chose not to insulate my 601 HDS/912 firewall; no real issues in 400 hours of
operation. I'm sure it'd be quieter and maybe cooler with it insulated.
GGP
Message 4
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: Benford2@aol.com
In a message dated 4/17/2003 8:38:17 AM Mountain Daylight Time,
caspainhower@aep.com writes:
>
>
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Carlson, Dale"
> <DCarlson@mail.dese.state.mo.us>
>
> I wonder if anyone had put together a pilot operating handbook (POH) for
> the 801. Zenith does not seem inclined to offer anything in this area. It
> would be helpful if a consistent, accurate manual were available out there
> in a "word" form. I am planning on starting one but don't want to rebuild
> the wheel if it already exists.
>
> Dale Carlson
> N128DC
>
Well, There are three things we all know for sure....
1.... Make sure your fuel tanks are venting properly.
2... A 801 with a Walter LOM will drop its nose real fast an a slow final.
3... A 801 with a Walter LOM will probably excede VNE.
I hope to have a bunch more info on flying characteristics of an 801 in the
next couple of months. It does seem odd that ZAC leaves out simple things to
get us all through the first few flights though.
Ben Haas N801BH.
Message 5
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Chuck Deiterich" <cfd@thegateway.net>
I have a POH in Word for my 701/Jabiru 2200 which would be a good starting
place. Mostly updating numbers. I modified it from the ZAC web page. If
there is a lot of interest, I'll put it on my web pages.
Chuck D.
N701TX
----- Original Message -----
From: <caspainhower@aep.com>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: CH-801 POH
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: caspainhower@aep.com
>
>
> Ditto for the 601 XL.
>
> Craig Spainhower
>
>
> "Carlson, Dale"
> <DCarlson@mail.dese.state.m To:
<zenith-list@matronics.com>
> o.us> cc:
> Sent by: Subject:
Zenith-List: CH-801 POH
> owner-zenith-list-server@ma
> tronics.com
>
>
> 04/15/03 05:49 PM
> Please respond to
> zenith-list
>
>
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Carlson, Dale"
> <DCarlson@mail.dese.state.mo.us>
>
> I wonder if anyone had put together a pilot operating handbook (POH) for
> the 801. Zenith does not seem inclined to offer anything in this area.
It
> would be helpful if a consistent, accurate manual were available out there
> in a "word" form. I am planning on starting one but don't want to rebuild
> the wheel if it already exists.
>
> Dale Carlson
> N128DC
>
>
> This e-mail message and all attachments transmitted with it from the
> Nuclear Generation Group of American Electric Power are for the sole
> use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and
> privileged information. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or
> distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please
> contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original
> message.
>
>
Message 6
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Carlson, Dale" <DCarlson@mail.dese.state.mo.us>
I would be interested in looking at your 701 POH. I believe there is quite a lot
that could be incorporated into the 801 POH.
Dale Carlson
N128DC
-----Original Message-----
From: Chuck Deiterich [mailto:cfd@thegateway.net]
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: CH-801 POH
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Chuck Deiterich" <cfd@thegateway.net>
I have a POH in Word for my 701/Jabiru 2200 which would be a good starting
place. Mostly updating numbers. I modified it from the ZAC web page. If
there is a lot of interest, I'll put it on my web pages.
Chuck D.
N701TX
----- Original Message -----
From: <caspainhower@aep.com>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: CH-801 POH
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: caspainhower@aep.com
>
>
> Ditto for the 601 XL.
>
> Craig Spainhower
>
>
> "Carlson, Dale"
> <DCarlson@mail.dese.state.m To:
<zenith-list@matronics.com>
> o.us> cc:
> Sent by: Subject:
Zenith-List: CH-801 POH
> owner-zenith-list-server@ma
> tronics.com
>
>
> 04/15/03 05:49 PM
> Please respond to
> zenith-list
>
>
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Carlson, Dale"
> <DCarlson@mail.dese.state.mo.us>
>
> I wonder if anyone had put together a pilot operating handbook (POH) for
> the 801. Zenith does not seem inclined to offer anything in this area.
It
> would be helpful if a consistent, accurate manual were available out there
> in a "word" form. I am planning on starting one but don't want to rebuild
> the wheel if it already exists.
>
> Dale Carlson
> N128DC
>
>
> This e-mail message and all attachments transmitted with it from the
> Nuclear Generation Group of American Electric Power are for the sole
> use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and
> privileged information. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or
> distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please
> contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original
> message.
>
>
Message 7
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "HINDE,FRANK (HP-Corvallis,ex1)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
Hi all,
Thankyou for all your considered responses to my "high EGT problem"
From what everyone says it seems this maybe a non issue (certainly not a big
enough problem to cause a valve guide failure at least).
So I will reset my mixtures to what they were (and the plug clour seemed
fine) and take it round the pattern and pull the plugs like I've always
done.
The EGT's at least will pick up differences between the banks, the meter
seems to do this quite well, in fact the difference of one notch on one carb
needle produced a difference between the banks of nearly 200F
This difference went away when I equalised the needles.
Hopefully I can remember how to fly this thing after a few months of having
heads rebuilt.
Frank
Wondering how well a 601 HDS will climb with one of Ramperformance's 137Hp
EA 81's....:)
-----Original Message-----
From: Don Honabach [mailto:don@pcperfect.com]
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: EA 81 problems
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Don Honabach" <don@pcperfect.com>
Frank,
Not much of an engine person and haven't got my plane in the air yet, but
you may want to take a look at www.bingcarburetor.com.
They have a tuning and parts manual for the CV Bing Carb (which is what
Stratus uses on the EA81), and you can also buy any of the needed parts for
later overhaul, etc. for your bing carbs.
In the tuning/parts manual it talks about a colortune spark plug that allows
you to see the flame color of each cyclinder and adjust the carbs for the
proper mixture. They also have information on carb synchronizers which may
also help.
Hope this helps and please let us know what you find.
Regards,
Don Honabach
Tempe, AZ - 601HDS
-----Original Message-----
From: HINDE,FRANK (HP-Corvallis,ex1) [mailto:frank.hinde@hp.com]
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: EA 81 problems
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "HINDE,FRANK (HP-Corvallis,ex1)"
--> <frank.hinde@hp.com>
Hi guys...
I have a Stratus EA81 and a few problems.I never had an EGT before
but I fitted one in each exhaust pipe because Stratus informed me
that they saw signs of high cyl temps. Not exactly sure what these
signs were but they thought that the motor had been "overheating".
Anyway, as the water temps had never been over 220F I thought it
good insurance to see what the EGT was doing.
After that I had a very nice big valve job done by Ram
performance...lovely properly stepped valve guides.all good stuff.
So I asked Ron at Ram what the EGT's should be?...He recommended a
maximum of 1250F...okey dokey...so I fit the EGT and calibrate them
with a handheld EGT from work in an adjacent hole in the ex pipe.
All very nice and the first thing the EGTs show is a 200F delta
between the banks. I found the needle positions different in the
BING altitude compensating carbs. I lift the lowest needle and the
banks now read the same throughout the rev range. So life is good
except that during taxi tests on our 6000ft runway I get full power
EGT's of 1450F and cruise settings of 1400. I.e higher than Ron's
1250F suggested max.
I decide to do a plug chop, raise rpm on the brakes to 3000rpm
(engine) and cut the igniton...all I got a was sooty plugs, as if
the mixture was VERY rich....I don't think it runs this rich,more
like something in the way the engine takes a last gulp of fuel that
gets partially burnt...besides i still have very high EGT's which
would presumably mean a weak mixture!
Ron suggested raising both the needles to get more fuel to cool the
mixture.Now my cruise is about 4400RPM and I would think the main
jet would have more authority at this engine speed than the needle.
But a needle height change I CAN DO RIGHT AWAY.
so I do this and taxi out to the runway....sure enough no change in
the full power EGT's (flys pretty good without the cowling) 'cos the
main jet is the same.
So I try a few runs at cruise setting about 44 to 4500 rpm. Well the
EGTs settle out to 1400F still way higher than 1250F maximum and
makes me nervous because of the so called "EVIDENCE OF OVERHEATING"
that Stratus told me about. The only difference is the motor was
using quite a bit more fuel, about 5.5GPM compared to the 5.0 GPM it
used to use.
I taxi back to the hangar, pull the plugs and once again they are
sooty but on one of them it was completly white underneath the soot.
Now the plugs are brand new and this engine has run for less than
one hour so I'm not sure plug color is a good indication of what the
mixture should be for such a short stop start regime of
testing...particularly if they soot up anyway when you kill the
ignition.
So I'm a little stumped as to what to do next? The whole premice
here is that 1450F is too high, is this true from everyone elses
experience?
How am I supposed to get the mixture set correctly with these carbs
in the first place.I always used to do this by doing plug chops on
old motorclycles, but this engine seems to just soot the plugs?
if it really is running way to rich, why the high EGT's?
I have a hard time believing a big valve job will make a big
difference in the mixture?
Seems to me there must be a way to set the mixture correctly and get
resaonable EGT readings.
I'm pretty sure the ignition timing is close to where it should be.
Any comments most gratefully received.
Frank
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Message 8
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: Gary Liming <gary@liming.org>
I am working on a POH, with blanks for numbers to be determined during the
40 hour flight testing, and ZAC supplied numbers for others, along with
some checklists for my particular plane. These are both based on a 172 POH
for format (and helping to decide what is needed) as well as a couple of RV
POH's that I've found on line.
I would be glad to share this with someone else to has similar data to swap.
Perhaps the reason that ZAC doesn't supply one is that much of it is engine
depenedant, many numbers need to be determined as part of flight test
anyway, and the big one is that there is a fair amount of legal precedent
for using the POH as a method to sue the manufacturer's "deep pockets."
Gary Liming
Message 9
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| Subject: | 701 Firewall Insullation |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: TomLazear@netscape.net (John Lazear)
I did not use any insulation and your feet are always warm, so I would have to
say there is noticable heat.
Tom 701
mike sinclair <mike.sinclair@att.net> wrote:
>--> Zenith-List message posted by: mike sinclair <mike.sinclair@att.net>
>
>Just a quick question for any owners of aircraft with the 912 engine,
>have any of you went without insullating the firewall? and has there
>been any noticable heat coming through into the cockpit? And if there
>was, what type of insullation may have been used to counter the heat? I
>am almost at the point of closing up the panel forward section of the
>project and figure this would be better taken care of at this stage.
>
>Mike Sinclair / 701 taildragger
>Seeing the light at the end of the tunnel, and it's not a train!
>Should fly sometime later this summer (I think the obvious quote has
>something to do with the creek not rising).
>
>
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Message 10
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: Benford2@aol.com
In a message dated 4/17/2003 12:44:37 PM Mountain Daylight Time,
gary@liming.org writes:
> to be determined as part of flight test
> anyway, and the big one is that there is a fair amount of legal precedent
> for using the POH as a method to sue the manufacturer's "deep pockets."
>
>
Very good point.!!!!!
Message 11
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: Gary Gower <ggower_99@yahoo.com>
Hi Chuck,
I will like to give a look to it, We are building ours with a 912S,
but will be ago start. Thank a lot in advance
Saludos
Gary Gower
701 912S
GDL, Mexico
--- Chuck Deiterich <cfd@thegateway.net> wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Chuck Deiterich"
> <cfd@thegateway.net>
>
> I have a POH in Word for my 701/Jabiru 2200 which would be a good
> starting
> place. Mostly updating numbers. I modified it from the ZAC web
> page. If
> there is a lot of interest, I'll put it on my web pages.
> Chuck D.
> N701TX
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <caspainhower@aep.com>
> To: <zenith-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Re: Zenith-List: CH-801 POH
>
>
> > --> Zenith-List message posted by: caspainhower@aep.com
> >
> >
> > Ditto for the 601 XL.
> >
> > Craig Spainhower
> >
> >
> > "Carlson, Dale"
> > <DCarlson@mail.dese.state.m To:
> <zenith-list@matronics.com>
> > o.us> cc:
> > Sent by: Subject:
> Zenith-List: CH-801 POH
> > owner-zenith-list-server@ma
> > tronics.com
> >
> >
> > 04/15/03 05:49 PM
> > Please respond to
> > zenith-list
> >
> >
> > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Carlson, Dale"
> > <DCarlson@mail.dese.state.mo.us>
> >
> > I wonder if anyone had put together a pilot operating handbook
> (POH) for
> > the 801. Zenith does not seem inclined to offer anything in this
> area.
> It
> > would be helpful if a consistent, accurate manual were available
> out there
> > in a "word" form. I am planning on starting one but don't want to
> rebuild
> > the wheel if it already exists.
> >
> > Dale Carlson
> > N128DC
> >
> >
> > This e-mail message and all attachments transmitted with it from
> the
> > Nuclear Generation Group of American Electric Power are for the
> sole
> > use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and
> > privileged information. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure
> or
> > distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient,
> please
> > contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the
> original
> > message.
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
http://search.yahoo.com
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: 701 Firewall Insullation |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "ABC" <pfergus2@tampabay.rr.com>
Mike and Group
I found a site with some interesting products. They have a liquid sound
proofing paint ?? It's FAA approved. I have never used this product, but I
did purchase some of their 2 inch tape ( worked good , it stuck to
everything ). Just a though....
http://store.yahoo.com/soundproofing/index.html
Peter Ferguson
N601PK
Jab 3300
7 years in the making ..... Almost done !!
----- Original Message ----- > Just a quick question for any owners of
aircraft with the 912 engine,
> have any of you went without insullating the firewall? and has there
> been any noticable heat coming through into the cockpit? And if there
> was, what type of insullation may have been used to counter the heat? I
> am almost at the point of closing up the panel forward section of the
> project and figure this would be better taken care of at this stage.
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