Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 07:03 AM - Re: 701 Firewall Insullation (Joseph Kintz)
2. 08:25 AM - insulation/soundproofing materials (Jeff Small)
3. 09:32 AM - Re: 701 Firewall Insullation (Scott Harding)
4. 11:33 AM - CH-640 'L' Angle (Clifton J. Bardwell)
5. 01:15 PM - Re: CH-640 'L' Angle (Chesterman Family)
6. 05:03 PM - Re: CH-640 'L' Angle (David Witt)
7. 06:11 PM - Re: CH-640 'L' Angle (Clifton J. Bardwell)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: 701 Firewall Insullation |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Joseph Kintz <kintzjd@rocketmail.com>
I hope this isn't the same "insulating paint" system demonstrated to me by the
manufacturer a few years ago. He brought a table-top demonstration with a
little house heated by an external light bulb. A thermometer inside the house
registered the internal temperature with and without "insulating paint" on the
roof. Sure enough, the insulating paint lowered the temperature inside the
house. Trouble is, when I layed a sheet of white paper on the unpainted roof,
the inside temperature dropped even more than with the "insulating paint". The
obvious conclusion is that the white color of the paint reflects light
radiation better than a darker colored surface. No surprise there. A good
insulator for your firewall should reflect infrared radiation and have low
thermal conductivity. I'm don't know if this "insulating paint" will fit the
bill.
Joe
--- g t <wauwis2002@yahoo.com> wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: g t <wauwis2002@yahoo.com>
>
> Another thought along a similar line. I have seen a coating that is Latex
> based, but primarily composed of a ceramic material. I used it at work for
> insulating hot tanks. This may be an interesting product to pursue for heat
> insulating the firewall. If anyone has interest, I will look up more
> information on this material to see if it is a fit. It would certainly
> provide good heat insulation in a very thin application. Probably at a
> weight disadvantage to fiberglass though.
>
> ABC <pfergus2@tampabay.rr.com> wrote:--> Zenith-List message posted by: "ABC"
>
>
>
> Mike and Group
>
> I found a site with some interesting products. They have a liquid sound
> proofing paint ?? It's FAA approved. I have never used this product, but I
> did purchase some of their 2 inch tape ( worked good , it stuck to
> everything ). Just a though....
>
> http://store.yahoo.com/soundproofing/index.html
>
>
> Peter Ferguson
> N601PK
> Jab 3300
> 7 years in the making ..... Almost done !!
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- > Just a quick question for any owners of
> aircraft with the 912 engine,
> > have any of you went without insullating the firewall? and has there
> > been any noticable heat coming through into the cockpit? And if there
> > was, what type of insullation may have been used to counter the heat? I
> > am almost at the point of closing up the panel forward section of the
> > project and figure this would be better taken care of at this stage.
>
>
> ---------------------------------
>
>
>
>
>
>
http://search.yahoo.com
Message 2
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| Subject: | insulation/soundproofing materials |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jeff Small" <zodiacjeff@msn.com>
The discussion and info from the site recently mentioned about firewall insulation
materials leads to this additional input.
When I planned the insulation of the firewall in my 601 the design was to use 1/4
inch "super soundproofing sheet" from ACS. I purchased that thickness because
of cost (the stuff is fairly expensive) and because I didn't know how much
room would be available between the header tank and the firewall.
Using Bill Morelli's idea of setting the tank back off the firewall by 3/4 to 1
inch through the use of standoffs resulted in the answer to whether there would
be enough room. Then Fred Hulen made the decision (indirectly) for me by discovering
the foam he was going to use on the firewall could be painted - and
color matched to your interior - using simple latex interior paint.
The foam is the nitrate closed-cell vinyl foam mentioned on the soundproofing site.
Locally you will find HVAC firms using it in new construction around office
building and schools. Available in a myriad of thickness (just pay your $),
it meets many fire retardant standards including FAR 25.853b. The roll mine
was cut from carried numerous tags. If you ever look at one of these tags you'll
see a lot of California standards.
I used 1 inch thickness on the bottom half (or more) of the firewall and the 1/4
inch between the header and firewall. Attached using contact cement which probably
upped the ante on flammability - BUT Fred discovered the latex paint actually
cuts down on the "smolder factor." The local hardware store matched
the color of my seat material. Caveat, the stuff is fairly heavy.
Its heat and cold insulating properties are excellent and very little sound seems
to be transmitted through it. All-aluminum a/c that weigh around 600 to 750
pounds are not going to be the quietest flying environment you can find so noise
will be an objective observation.
Go back in the archives and use Fred's name and "3M sound dampening tape" and you'll
find something that really reduces oilcanning noises from the large areas
in the rear fuselages of all the Zenith designs. It's a tape-backed, dead soft,
all aluminum sheet (sometimes cut into strips) that you cut and paste.
Many of the builders peering under the panel at SnF asked about how the firewall
was color-matched to the interior - this is how. Anyone who would like to see
the results can contact me or Fred off-list and we'll send you a few jpegs.
.and PK, when you gonna kick the tires and light the fires of that Jab?
Regards Jeff and 22Tango with 75+ hours and over 2600 miles of x-country
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: 701 Firewall Insullation |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Scott Harding <sharding@wt.net>
Joe,
You are quite correct that an efficient thermal barrier system should
address both thermal radiation and conduction. Your example of the piece
of white paper being a better insulator than insulating paint is a good
example of this. The white paper not only reflected the radiant heat, but
the air gap between the paper and the roof also provided a efficient
barrier to thermal conduction. Still air is a very poor conductor heat,
which is how double pane windows work. The insulating paint, however, did
not have the benefit of the insulating air gap and ended up conducting more
heat.
Scott
701 Plans and Rudder - Looking hard at the 601XL
Do Not Archive
At 07:02 AM 4/19/03 -0700, you wrote:
>--> Zenith-List message posted by: Joseph Kintz <kintzjd@rocketmail.com>
>
>I hope this isn't the same "insulating paint" system demonstrated to me by the
>manufacturer a few years ago. He brought a table-top demonstration with a
>little house heated by an external light bulb. A thermometer inside the house
>registered the internal temperature with and without "insulating paint" on the
>roof. Sure enough, the insulating paint lowered the temperature inside the
>house. Trouble is, when I layed a sheet of white paper on the unpainted roof,
>the inside temperature dropped even more than with the "insulating
>paint". The
>obvious conclusion is that the white color of the paint reflects light
>radiation better than a darker colored surface. No surprise there. A good
>insulator for your firewall should reflect infrared radiation and have low
>thermal conductivity. I'm don't know if this "insulating paint" will fit the
>bill.
>
>Joe
Message 4
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| Subject: | CH-640 'L' Angle |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Clifton J. Bardwell" <clif@duck.org>
Hello List,
In the CH-640 Rudder Assembly Manual, there is a reference to a
"STANDARD Lx35mm OPENED 18 degrees". However it gives no other
dimensions. I understand the 35mm is the length (cut from a 4 foot
piece), but does anyone know what the thickness and width of each side
is?
TIA,
Clif
Serial No. 640-0039
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: CH-640 'L' Angle |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Chesterman Family <chesterman@on.aibn.com>
Somewhere in the beginning of the manual are the dimensions of a standard L.
My 701 kit came with about 50 of them 48" long to use as required. the 640
maybe a bit heavier so I won't give you 701 dimensions
Dave Chesterman 701 186 hrs
last weekend I flew into and landed at a local motocross race. The riders
thought they were getting big air until they saw me!
do not archive
"Clifton J. Bardwell" wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Clifton J. Bardwell" <clif@duck.org>
>
> Hello List,
>
> In the CH-640 Rudder Assembly Manual, there is a reference to a
> "STANDARD Lx35mm OPENED 18 degrees". However it gives no other
> dimensions. I understand the 35mm is the length (cut from a 4 foot
> piece), but does anyone know what the thickness and width of each side
> is?
>
> TIA,
> Clif
> Serial No. 640-0039
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | CH-640 'L' Angle |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "David Witt" <david@davidwitt.com>
Hi Clif
In the "Design and Construction Standards" manual that came with my plans,
on page 2-251 p. 1/2 There are standard aluminum shapes. One is an "L" and
the other is a "Z". I haven't started building, but I think this is what is
meant by "Standard L". I believe this is the angle shown connecting the
Spar to the Tip Rib on drawing 640-R-4.
Dave
Serial No. 640-0037
> In the CH-640 Rudder Assembly Manual, there is a reference to a
> "STANDARD Lx35mm OPENED 18 degrees". However it gives no other
> dimensions. I understand the 35mm is the length (cut from a 4 foot
> piece), but does anyone know what the thickness and width of each side
> is?
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | CH-640 'L' Angle |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Clifton J. Bardwell" <clif@duck.org>
Thanks for the replies. I found the specs. Somehow I missed that page
when I was going through the book.
As my Dad used to say, sometimes you can't see the forest for the trees.
:)
Thanks again.
Clif
Serial no. 640-0039
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of David Witt
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: CH-640 'L' Angle
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "David Witt" <david@davidwitt.com>
Hi Clif
In the "Design and Construction Standards" manual that came with my
plans, on page 2-251 p. 1/2 There are standard aluminum shapes. One is
an "L" and the other is a "Z". I haven't started building, but I think
this is what is meant by "Standard L". I believe this is the angle
shown connecting the Spar to the Tip Rib on drawing 640-R-4.
Dave
Serial No. 640-0037
> In the CH-640 Rudder Assembly Manual, there is a reference to a
> "STANDARD Lx35mm OPENED 18 degrees". However it gives no other
> dimensions. I understand the 35mm is the length (cut from a 4 foot
> piece), but does anyone know what the thickness and width of each side
> is?
>
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