---------------------------------------------------------- Zenith-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Tue 05/06/03: 11 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 07:01 AM - Re: 701 down (daddybob) 2. 08:38 AM - Re: 701 down (Grant Corriveau) 3. 09:41 AM - Off-Topic Engine question (David Barth) 4. 11:11 AM - Re: Off-Topic Engine question (Randall Thomure) 5. 12:17 PM - Re: 701 down (JERICKSON03E@aol.com) 6. 01:08 PM - Re: Off-Topic Engine question (Bryan Martin) 7. 02:45 PM - Parachutes for Sale (Ed Kowalski) 8. 03:05 PM - Re: Re: 701 down (Clifton J. Bardwell) 9. 04:14 PM - Re: 701 down (mike sinclair) 10. 04:28 PM - Forced Landing and Future Passengers... (thomas hobbes) 11. 10:13 PM - Re: 701 down (Lyle D. Pahnke) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 07:01:33 AM PST US From: daddybob Subject: Zenith-List: Re: 701 down --> Zenith-List message posted by: daddybob As a lurker, not a builder (Yet!) I am curious about the "Do Not Archive" at the end of all these posts about this accident. Does this truly mean that these posts will be unavailable to future readers/builders? I have had to postpone my dream of building a 701 for some years now because of health and financial reversals. But it was those very things that led me to sift through reams of DIY flying info to settle on the 701. I knew I had to build a safe plane (because of my spinal condition), one with both the flying and strength characterisitics of the 701, and a plane that was affordable to build, and one that you could hang a "real" motor on, to have the power to overcome the capricious weather of my area. I read and ponder nearly every thing you guys write. I really hope that the best of this info will be in the archives for me and others in the future. This 701 Down story is to me a SUCCESS story, at least of the design of the airplane itself. And as one who grew up flying Cessnas out of farm fields, I sure can't fault this man for not seeing a fence in an emergency. If there's some kind of thought that this story might possibly reflect badly on this entire endeavour, please re-think it before you write Do Not Archive. Some of us could possibly owe our lives to your learning and sharing. Thanks, Daddybob __________________________________ http://search.yahoo.com ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 08:38:09 AM PST US Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 701 down From: Grant Corriveau --> Zenith-List message posted by: Grant Corriveau > From: J Davis > [some emotional notes:] I'm just *so* pissed at myself for not > making a good emergency landing in a field w/o a fence... *and* > for not having paid the extra insurance $$ to have been covered > for 'in flight' instead of only while on the ground. I guess I > just feel like an old fool, more than anything, who has now nicely > justified all the people who have said I'm crazy to build and fly > an airplane. Sounds to me like you did an excellent job of handling this EMERGENCY situation. Remember - this is called an EMERGENCY for a very good reason. The old flying adage "Any landing you walk away from is a good landing" is NOT just a humourous line - it contains the golden nugget of truth that flying is more dangerous than sitting in your armchair vegging in front of the T.V.. In the end, the critics who told you you were crazy to "build and fly and airplane" will be the ones who have lost out on LIFE. Life is an adventure! And it is dangerous! And NO ONE gets out alive. The really sad thing is that many are afraid to LIVE while they have the chance. You have chosen to live and experience things that these critics will never understand. GOOD FOR YOU! As for the insurance etc... so what? We all make our best cost/risk analysis and go with it. Sometimes we win, sometimes we win big. I believe in insuring things I NEED like my house, my car, etc.. My aircraft is an 'optional' item, and like you I have not insured it for inflight risks. If it get's damaged, I'll either rebuild it (hey building is half the fun), or I'll scrap it and move on to another adventure. So, let me add my 'WELL DONE' to the list. Now go take a little 'R & R' in front of the 'boob tube' - recommended viewing: "The Right Stuff" ; "Apollo 13" ; "The Mighty" ; "Galaxy Quest" ; "X-Men" ; and anything else uplifting that depicts the struggle we all face to grow and overcome! Then get back to rebuilding!!! Regards, Grant Corriveau C-GHTF 601 HDS "We are all of us in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars." - Oscar Wilde "Through adversity, to the stars" - motto of Canadian Air Force (I don't recall the Latin ;-) ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 09:41:42 AM PST US From: David Barth Subject: Zenith-List: Off-Topic Engine question --> Zenith-List message posted by: David Barth Hi List. Just looking for a little advice for those more mechanically inclined than I am. I have a 13 year old Nissan truck with about 300,000 km (187,000 miles) on it. I have reason to believe there is a head gasket leak and the coolant is slowly being burnt up in the combustion process. I don't believe it is worth spending any real time or money on this vehicle as it is on its last leg. Here is the question: Is there any kind of coolant additive that would efectively seal this (presumed) head gasket leak? Thanks for any advice you might have. You might want to reply direct to my email if you have a suggestion. David Do not archive ===== David Barth 601 XL Plansbuilder Currently making parts. Stab, elevator and Rudder waiting for skins. Flaps and ailerons ready for inspection. __________________________________ http://search.yahoo.com ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 11:11:55 AM PST US From: "Randall Thomure" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Off-Topic Engine question --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Randall Thomure" Dave, Don't know about Nissans, but years ago I had head gasket problems with a '68 Mustang with an in-line 200 c.i. 6 cylinder. There was a weak point in the design that put the water jumper too close to the combustion chamber, so I had to replace the head gasket a couple of times. The general problem with a blown head gasket is that the exhaust gases blow through the gasket and push the coolant out. Also the hot exhaust gases over heats the remaining coolant water, which compounds the problem. An additional problem is that the coolant finds a way to seep into the oil pan, thus contaminating the oil. Water contamination in the oil is easily determined by changing the oil color to a muddy brown color. Water contamination ends up causing the most expensive problems due to bearing scaring. Bottom line is - you should either replace the head gasket or put it out of its misery. Changing a head gasket is not too bad, just time and making attention to the re-torque pattern. If you can build a plane, you can replace a head gasket. But it does take you away from the fun stuff like finishing the project - your real job - family - a social life (whatever that is). Sorry I could not give you a better answer, but already been there before. Randy Thomure -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of David Barth Subject: Zenith-List: Off-Topic Engine question --> Zenith-List message posted by: David Barth Hi List. Just looking for a little advice for those more mechanically inclined than I am. I have a 13 year old Nissan truck with about 300,000 km (187,000 miles) on it. I have reason to believe there is a head gasket leak and the coolant is slowly being burnt up in the combustion process. I don't believe it is worth spending any real time or money on this vehicle as it is on its last leg. Here is the question: Is there any kind of coolant additive that would efectively seal this (presumed) head gasket leak? Thanks for any advice you might have. You might want to reply direct to my email if you have a suggestion. David Do not archive ===== David Barth 601 XL Plansbuilder Currently making parts. Stab, elevator and Rudder waiting for skins. Flaps and ailerons ready for inspection. __________________________________ http://search.yahoo.com ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 12:17:46 PM PST US From: JERICKSON03E@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 701 down --> Zenith-List message posted by: JERICKSON03E@aol.com Jay, Congratulations, Both you and your 701 did what was required. Good job. Your insight would be appreciated, concerning engine selection. I'm close to that decision, for my project, CH 701 SP. MGW is 1100 lb. including engine up to 100 HP, and 200 lb. I am thinking about the Great Planes VW with the Valley Engineering Bolt on, speed reduction unit. Also, the new X O 200, version of the C O 200 for Experimental Aircraft, is an option now. What are your thought's, if you are/would do it again? Jerry E, Ch 701 SP do not archive ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 01:08:01 PM PST US From: Bryan Martin Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Off-Topic Engine question --> Zenith-List message posted by: Bryan Martin on 5/6/03 12:40 PM, David Barth at davids601xl@yahoo.com wrote: > --> Zenith-List message posted by: David Barth > > Hi List. > Just looking for a little advice for those more > mechanically inclined than I am. I have a 13 year old > Nissan truck with about 300,000 km (187,000 miles) on > it. I have reason to believe there is a head gasket > leak and the coolant is slowly being burnt up in the > combustion process. > > > Do not archive > If your coolant level is going down and you can't find any leaks it probably is a blown head gasket. If coolant is being burned in your engine you should see white smoke coming from the exhaust because of the burning anti-freeze. You may also notice more steam than usual from the exhaust. Unfortunately, the only cure is a new head gasket. -- Bryan Martin N61BM, CH 601 XL, Stratus Subaru. Airframe construction complete. Working on instrument panel, electrical and interior. do not archive. ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 02:45:17 PM PST US From: "Ed Kowalski" Subject: Zenith-List: Parachutes for Sale --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Ed Kowalski" Two new strong Parachutes for sale. $1200.00 each new. One back and One seat. $600.00 each plus shipping and handling. E-mail salned@msn.com ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 03:05:40 PM PST US From: "Clifton J. Bardwell" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Re: 701 down --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Clifton J. Bardwell" You have a great point. I've read many posts on this listserve which will definitely be of great use when I get to the points discussed. However it seems that many people add "Do N*t Archive" (seemingly as part of their signature) to their very informative posts keeping them from being archived and searchable. Just my 2p, since it was brought up. :) Clif Bardwell 640-0039 http://homebuilt.duck.org -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of daddybob Subject: Zenith-List: Re: 701 down --> Zenith-List message posted by: daddybob As a lurker, not a builder (Yet!) I am curious about the "Do Not Archive" at the end of all these posts about this accident. Does this truly mean that these posts will be unavailable to future readers/builders? I have had to postpone my dream of building a 701 for some years now because of health and financial reversals. But it was those very things that led me to sift through reams of DIY flying info to settle on the 701. I knew I had to build a safe plane (because of my spinal condition), one with both the flying and strength characterisitics of the 701, and a plane that was affordable to build, and one that you could hang a "real" motor on, to have the power to overcome the capricious weather of my area. I read and ponder nearly every thing you guys write. I really hope that the best of this info will be in the archives for me and others in the future. This 701 Down story is to me a SUCCESS story, at least of the design of the airplane itself. And as one who grew up flying Cessnas out of farm fields, I sure can't fault this man for not seeing a fence in an emergency. If there's some kind of thought that this story might possibly reflect badly on this entire endeavour, please re-think it before you write Do Not Archive. Some of us could possibly owe our lives to your learning and sharing. Thanks, Daddybob __________________________________ http://search.yahoo.com direct advertising on the Matronics Forums. ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 04:14:46 PM PST US From: mike sinclair Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 701 down --> Zenith-List message posted by: mike sinclair > > > "Through adversity, to the stars" > - motto of Canadian Air Force (I don't recall the Latin ;-) > "Ad Astra Per Aspera" To The Stars Through Difficulties. The motto on the Kansas state flag. Jay Just to add my two cents worth, I also am very glad you walked away from the accident. I broke a composite ultralight that I spent three years building back in '86' after an engine failure. I only had twenty hours fight time on it when I ended up setting it down in an "open" pasture. Turns out that pasture wasn't as smooth on the ground as it looked from the air, but had no other choice anyway. After the dust settled I went and got a trailer, hauled it home, scrapped it out, and started looking at the next project. Sometimes as they say, you just gotta get back on that horse and ride him. Anyway, hope this detour on the road of life doesn't set you back to bad, and hope your aircraft is rebuildable, and the heck with those people that said you are crazy. I got people telling me that all the time, but the majority of them don't know how to live and can't wipe their own butts without instructions. Later Mike Sinclair Augusta, Kansas 701 taildragger (gonna fly this year!) Do Not Archive ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 04:28:24 PM PST US From: thomas hobbes Subject: Zenith-List: Forced Landing and Future Passengers... --> Zenith-List message posted by: thomas hobbes JD- When you are ready to go back up, but don't want to take a passenger (wife, child), let me know. I'd fly with you any day. All of my friends are Helo pilots, and I shared your account with them. Without exception, their response was 'This guy is a civilian? Wow...sounded like he kept his cool.' Whenever you're ready--I'll even split the gas! TR __________________________________ http://search.yahoo.com ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 10:13:00 PM PST US From: "Lyle D. Pahnke" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 701 down --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Lyle D. Pahnke" After reading your account, I can't help but think that you were equipped and prepared mentally as best as anyone can be, and it played out with a favorable result. In my opinion, the angle of attack instrument is also keynote to your preparedness and professionalism and should be commended. That is the very first instrument that I purchased for my plane, for the very same reason. Congratulations. I am thankful for your wellbeing and only hope that we can do as well if in the same situation. Good luck and thank you for sharing. LDP --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Netwitz. Are your virus definitions up to date?]