Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 07:02 AM - Re: Flying Lessons (H. Robert Schoenberger)
2. 07:25 AM - Re: THANKS to FrankH. (HINDE,FRANK (HP-Corvallis,ex1))
3. 10:17 AM - Aileron end tip... (Michael Stempf)
4. 10:59 AM - Re: Aileron end tip... (CLOJAN@aol.com)
5. 11:19 AM - Re: Fiberglass cowling (Mark A. Wood)
6. 11:59 AM - Re: Aileron end tip... (David Barth)
7. 12:55 PM - Re: Fiberglass cowling (Michel Therrien)
8. 02:01 PM - Re: Fiberglass cowling (Mark A. Wood)
9. 02:09 PM - Re: Fiberglass cowling (HINDE,FRANK (HP-Corvallis,ex1))
10. 04:07 PM - Re: Flying Lessons (Mark Townsend)
11. 04:22 PM - Re: Fiberglass cowling (Michel Therrien)
12. 08:21 PM - Re: Fiberglass cowling (Don Walker)
13. 08:31 PM - N601RT takes to the air (royt.or)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Flying Lessons |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "H. Robert Schoenberger" <HRS4@prodigy.net>
John . . . Waterloo where? I am near Rochester, NY. Thanks Hap
Schoenberger 701 25%.
----- Original Message -----
From: <jbirgiolas@smiletoronto.com>
Subject: Zenith-List: Flying Lessons
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: <jbirgiolas@smiletoronto.com>
>
> There is an instructor flying out of Waterloo airport using a 701. Email
me offlist for phone number.John Birgiolas
>
>
Message 2
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| Subject: | THANKS to FrankH. |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "HINDE,FRANK (HP-Corvallis,ex1)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
Your welcome Roy!
It was a pleasure and motivated me to get my butt down the airport early to
get the carbs finished off so it was ready to go...well almost...:)
Unfortunatly I havn't flown for about 4 months myself so even my landings
were shoddy so yours looked great in comparison...:)
Let us know how the first flight goes!
Frank
Do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: royt.or [mailto:royt.or@netzero.net]
Subject: Zenith-List: THANKS to FrankH.
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "royt.or" <royt.or@netzero.net>
N601RT, CH601HDS with Rotax 912S is ready for its first flight. To help
prepare me as the test pilot, I met Frank Hinde at CVO (Corvallis Oregon)
and we spent about an hour flying his Subaru powered CH601HDS. I was in the
right seat and got to practice doing manuvers which would be expected for a
checkout to rent a plane from an FBO, including about a half a dozen
landings.
My impressions compared to the C150 I flew to Corvallis, Frank's CH601HDS
has lighter controls. The CH601HDS is much more pitch sensitive than the
C150. Little to no rudder needed to fly the CH601, but right rudder is
definately needed to adjust for P factor on takeoff etc. The 601 with two of
us climbs MUCH better than the C150 does solo. The 601 looses speed quickly,
so for landings, Frank suggested flying the plane onto the runway at ~80mph.
The landings were not as smooth as I do with a full flare in the C150 at ~
40kts.
It was great to meet someone on this list.
Thanks again to Frank for helping me prepare for the first flight in N601RT.
Regards,
Roy
advertising on the Matronics Forums.
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Message 3
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| Subject: | Aileron end tip... |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Michael Stempf" <mstempf@earthlink.net>
Hey everyone,
Have a question for anyone who has already gone through the aileron
process, I am installing the end tip onto the ailerons - but they are
not going on as flush as I thought they should be. I read the "tip" in
the installation notes to put the top part of the rib over the 20 mm
over hang of the aileron - but it still does not sit on there right.
Any ideas/recommendations?
Thanks so much,
Michael Stempf
601XL Kit
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Aileron end tip... |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: CLOJAN@aol.com
In a message dated 5/12/03 10:19:10 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
mstempf@earthlink.net writes:
> Have a question for anyone who has already gone through the aileron
> process, I am installing the end tip onto the ailerons - but they are
>
Michael: I got the left side tip to come out ok but the other tip didn't fit
at all so I just left the clecos in it and moved on to the flaps. It looks
like the tip slipped a little when they bent it. I have had success in making
other parts when I screwed up the kit part so I think I will just make the
part.
Jack Russell Clovis CA
Ser#5000 XL
fuselage- looks more like a boat than a plane.
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Fiberglass cowling |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Mark A. Wood" <Mark.Wood@uvm.edu>
I went for the easy way of doing a fiberglass cowling. I did the
plastic bag around engine type stuff then glued blue board insulation
around it. I sawed, hot wired, and sanded this to shape. I shaped to
the outside of the airframe. I then put a good coat of wax over the
blue board and first three inches of the Al. I then used this as a
male mold. I laid the fiberglass over the blue board and the first
three inches of the Al. This needed to be filled and sanded slightly
to make it smooth, but I think it was less work than making a mold.
After it was formed and cut in half for the two sections the blue
board pulled out.
Changes if I were to do this again.
I would have a solid shape on the front to sand to, such as a piece
of plywood shaped as it would be at the back of the nose bowl, or I
would use a nose bowl from Aircraft Spruce. If building my own I
would take the wood off after shaping the rear section add some blue
board to the front and form the nose bowl. It was easy to know where
to shape to in the back as I shaped to the fuselage but in the front
I was just free forming and I cut in too far a couple of times and
had to fill with the hardware store expansion foam and reshape. This
was a pain as the foam and the blue board sanded at different rates.
I tried to form a little of the shape by how I built up the blue
board. The next time I would use thicker blue board for less glue
joints and keep all the sections parallel. This stuff shapes so easy
that you can put on lots extra and hot wire or saw the first 6 inches
off in very little time. It is the finer stuff that takes more time
and for that the big thing would be to have something in place at the
front to sand to.
I could not build a second cowl from my plug like you can with a
female mold, but I only needed one.
Mark
>--> Zenith-List message posted by: Michel Therrien <mtherr@yahoo.com>
>
>If anyone made or plan to make (and figured out how to
>do it) a fiberglass cowling, please contact me. I
>would like to check a few things with you.
>
>Thanks!
>
>Michel
>
--
Mark Wood
Assistive Technology Consultant, VT I-Team
Center on Disability and Community Inclusion
University of Vermont
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Aileron end tip... |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: David Barth <davids601xl@yahoo.com>
Making the tips is not all that hard. I fit the tip I
had as best I could - drilled and clecoed then
estimated where it would have to be bigger or smaller
in order to fit better. Then remove the part and
trace it onto a sheet of 6061 and add/remove from the
dimensions, add the flange lengths, cut out the blank
and bend the flanges. Just have to get the bend
started then you can adjust the angles by hand. Then
fit, drill and cleco and note the result. Repeat if
necessary. I did three iterations for the left
aileron tip but ended up with what I wanted. Didn't
take as long as it sounds either. When we made the
form blocks I was working from the older version of
the plans. Good Luck.
David
> > Have a question for anyone who has already gone
> through the aileron
> > process, I am installing the end tip onto the
> ailerons - but they are
> >
>
> Michael: I got the left side tip to come out ok but
> the other tip didn't fit
> at all so I just left the clecos in it and moved on
> to the flaps. It looks
> like the tip slipped a little when they bent it. I
> have had success in making
> other parts when I screwed up the kit part so I
> think I will just make the
> part.
=====
David Barth
601 XL Plansbuilder
Currently making parts.
Stab, elevator and Rudder waiting for skins. Flaps and ailerons ready for inspection.
__________________________________
http://search.yahoo.com
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Fiberglass cowling |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Michel Therrien <mtherr@yahoo.com>
Thanks Mark. So you layed the fiberglass on top of
the fuse skin. When you re-installed the cowling, did
you put it on top or under the skin?
Michel
--- "Mark A. Wood" <Mark.Wood@uvm.edu> wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Mark A. Wood"
> <Mark.Wood@uvm.edu>
>
>
> I went for the easy way of doing a fiberglass
> cowling. I did the
> plastic bag around engine type stuff then glued blue
> board insulation
> around it. I sawed, hot wired, and sanded this to
> shape. I shaped to
> the outside of the airframe. I then put a good coat
> of wax over the
> blue board and first three inches of the Al. I then
> used this as a
> male mold. I laid the fiberglass over the blue board
> and the first
> three inches of the Al. This needed to be filled and
> sanded slightly
> to make it smooth, but I think it was less work than
> making a mold.
> After it was formed and cut in half for the two
> sections the blue
> board pulled out.
>
> Changes if I were to do this again.
>
> I would have a solid shape on the front to sand to,
> such as a piece
> of plywood shaped as it would be at the back of the
> nose bowl, or I
> would use a nose bowl from Aircraft Spruce. If
> building my own I
> would take the wood off after shaping the rear
> section add some blue
> board to the front and form the nose bowl. It was
> easy to know where
> to shape to in the back as I shaped to the fuselage
> but in the front
> I was just free forming and I cut in too far a
> couple of times and
> had to fill with the hardware store expansion foam
> and reshape. This
> was a pain as the foam and the blue board sanded at
> different rates.
>
> I tried to form a little of the shape by how I built
> up the blue
> board. The next time I would use thicker blue board
> for less glue
> joints and keep all the sections parallel. This
> stuff shapes so easy
> that you can put on lots extra and hot wire or saw
> the first 6 inches
> off in very little time. It is the finer stuff that
> takes more time
> and for that the big thing would be to have
> something in place at the
> front to sand to.
>
> I could not build a second cowl from my plug like
> you can with a
> female mold, but I only needed one.
>
> Mark
>
>
> >--> Zenith-List message posted by: Michel Therrien
> <mtherr@yahoo.com>
> >
> >If anyone made or plan to make (and figured out how
> to
> >do it) a fiberglass cowling, please contact me. I
> >would like to check a few things with you.
> >
> >Thanks!
> >
> >Michel
> >
>
> --
> Mark Wood
> Assistive Technology Consultant, VT I-Team
> Center on Disability and Community Inclusion
> University of Vermont
>
>
>
> Contributions
> any other
> Forums.
>
> latest messages.
> List members.
>
> http://www.matronics.com/subscription
> http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Zenith-List.htm
> Digests:http://www.matronics.com/digest/zenith-list
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
>
>
>
>
=====
----------------------------
Michel Therrien CH601-HD
http://mthobby.pcperfect.com/ch601
http://www.zenithair.com/bldrlist/profiles/mthobby
http://pages.infinit.net/mthobby
__________________________________
http://search.yahoo.com
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Fiberglass cowling |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Mark A. Wood" <Mark.Wood@uvm.edu>
I went over the top, I also did a couple of other things like putting
in a strip of Al between layers of glass to act as a large washer
along the connection area, and adding layers over the seam joint,
with a piece of wax paper on the lower side so it didn't stick.
Mark
>--> Zenith-List message posted by: Michel Therrien <mtherr@yahoo.com>
>
>Thanks Mark. So you layed the fiberglass on top of
>the fuse skin. When you re-installed the cowling, did
>you put it on top or under the skin?
>
>Michel
>
>--- "Mark A. Wood" <Mark.Wood@uvm.edu> wrote:
>> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Mark A. Wood"
>> <Mark.Wood@uvm.edu>
>>
>>
>> I went for the easy way of doing a fiberglass
>> cowling. I did the
>> plastic bag around engine type stuff then glued blue
>> board insulation
>> around it. I sawed, hot wired, and sanded this to
>> shape. I shaped to
>> the outside of the airframe. I then put a good coat
> > of wax over the
> >
--
Mark Wood
Assistive Technology Consultant, VT I-Team
Center on Disability and Community Inclusion
University of Vermont
Message 9
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| Subject: | Fiberglass cowling |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "HINDE,FRANK (HP-Corvallis,ex1)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
I like the plan and I may copy this when I finally get fed up enough with
the fit of the original and very expensive ZAC cowl.
One thing, do not fit the cowl under the fuse skin as it is almost
impossible to remove it with the prop fitted.
What I did was to hack the back inch or so off the cowl add a 3" wide alu
stip to the back of the joint to bolt the cowl to. The strip of FRP that was
hacked off sandwiches between the alu stip and fuse sides and acts as a
spacer to give a flush fit between the cowl and fuse sides.
You could of course make the new cowl this way too
Frank
Stratus, 601 HDS, 290 hours
-----Original Message-----
From: Michel Therrien [mailto:mtherr@yahoo.com]
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Fiberglass cowling
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Michel Therrien <mtherr@yahoo.com>
Thanks Mark. So you layed the fiberglass on top of
the fuse skin. When you re-installed the cowling, did
you put it on top or under the skin?
Michel
--- "Mark A. Wood" <Mark.Wood@uvm.edu> wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Mark A. Wood"
> <Mark.Wood@uvm.edu>
>
>
> I went for the easy way of doing a fiberglass
> cowling. I did the
> plastic bag around engine type stuff then glued blue
> board insulation
> around it. I sawed, hot wired, and sanded this to
> shape. I shaped to
> the outside of the airframe. I then put a good coat
> of wax over the
> blue board and first three inches of the Al. I then
> used this as a
> male mold. I laid the fiberglass over the blue board
> and the first
> three inches of the Al. This needed to be filled and
> sanded slightly
> to make it smooth, but I think it was less work than
> making a mold.
> After it was formed and cut in half for the two
> sections the blue
> board pulled out.
>
> Changes if I were to do this again.
>
> I would have a solid shape on the front to sand to,
> such as a piece
> of plywood shaped as it would be at the back of the
> nose bowl, or I
> would use a nose bowl from Aircraft Spruce. If
> building my own I
> would take the wood off after shaping the rear
> section add some blue
> board to the front and form the nose bowl. It was
> easy to know where
> to shape to in the back as I shaped to the fuselage
> but in the front
> I was just free forming and I cut in too far a
> couple of times and
> had to fill with the hardware store expansion foam
> and reshape. This
> was a pain as the foam and the blue board sanded at
> different rates.
>
> I tried to form a little of the shape by how I built
> up the blue
> board. The next time I would use thicker blue board
> for less glue
> joints and keep all the sections parallel. This
> stuff shapes so easy
> that you can put on lots extra and hot wire or saw
> the first 6 inches
> off in very little time. It is the finer stuff that
> takes more time
> and for that the big thing would be to have
> something in place at the
> front to sand to.
>
> I could not build a second cowl from my plug like
> you can with a
> female mold, but I only needed one.
>
> Mark
>
>
> >--> Zenith-List message posted by: Michel Therrien
> <mtherr@yahoo.com>
> >
> >If anyone made or plan to make (and figured out how
> to
> >do it) a fiberglass cowling, please contact me. I
> >would like to check a few things with you.
> >
> >Thanks!
> >
> >Michel
> >
>
> --
> Mark Wood
> Assistive Technology Consultant, VT I-Team
> Center on Disability and Community Inclusion
> University of Vermont
>
>
>
> Contributions
> any other
> Forums.
>
> latest messages.
> List members.
>
> http://www.matronics.com/subscription
> http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Zenith-List.htm
> Digests:http://www.matronics.com/digest/zenith-list
> http://www.matronics.com/archives http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
>
>
>
>
=====
----------------------------
Michel Therrien CH601-HD
http://mthobby.pcperfect.com/ch601
http://www.zenithair.com/bldrlist/profiles/mthobby
http://pages.infinit.net/mthobby
__________________________________
http://search.yahoo.com
advertising on the Matronics Forums.
Share: Share photos & files with other List members.
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Flying Lessons |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Mark Townsend" <601xl@sympatico.ca>
Waterloo, Ontario about a 6hr drive from you in Rochester if I remember
right. Airport CYKF, 701 instructor Tom Mills. I can provide a phone #
privately if you wish.
Mark Townsend
601XL EA82 MPFI Turbo
-----Original Message-----
From: H. Robert Schoenberger <HRS4@prodigy.net>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Flying Lessons
>--> Zenith-List message posted by: "H. Robert Schoenberger"
<HRS4@prodigy.net>
>
>John . . . Waterloo where? I am near Rochester, NY. Thanks Hap
>Schoenberger 701 25%.
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: <jbirgiolas@smiletoronto.com>
>To: <zenith-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: Zenith-List: Flying Lessons
>
>
>> --> Zenith-List message posted by: <jbirgiolas@smiletoronto.com>
>>
>> There is an instructor flying out of Waterloo airport using a 701. Email
>me offlist for phone number.John Birgiolas
>>
>>
>
>
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Fiberglass cowling |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Michel Therrien <mtherr@yahoo.com>
Good. How many layers of what material (weight) did
you use?
--- "Mark A. Wood" <Mark.Wood@uvm.edu> wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Mark A. Wood"
> <Mark.Wood@uvm.edu>
>
> I went over the top, I also did a couple of other
> things like putting
> in a strip of Al between layers of glass to act as a
> large washer
> along the connection area, and adding layers over
> the seam joint,
> with a piece of wax paper on the lower side so it
> didn't stick.
> Mark
>
=====
----------------------------
Michel Therrien CH601-HD
http://mthobby.pcperfect.com/ch601
http://www.zenithair.com/bldrlist/profiles/mthobby
http://pages.infinit.net/mthobby
__________________________________
http://search.yahoo.com
Message 12
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|
| Subject: | Re: Fiberglass cowling |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Don Walker" <dwalk3dw@msn.com>
Frank,
I recommend putting the cowl under the fuselage skin. It looks much
better and is cleaner. I have no trouble removing or putting the cowling on,
though it is a close fit. I'm not sure why yours is "nearly impossible". I
do it on every preflight. Don Walker, HDS
----- Original Message -----
From: "HINDE,FRANK (HP-Corvallis,ex1)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Fiberglass cowling
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "HINDE,FRANK (HP-Corvallis,ex1)"
<frank.hinde@hp.com>
>
> I like the plan and I may copy this when I finally get fed up enough with
> the fit of the original and very expensive ZAC cowl.
>
> One thing, do not fit the cowl under the fuse skin as it is almost
> impossible to remove it with the prop fitted.
>
> What I did was to hack the back inch or so off the cowl add a 3" wide alu
> stip to the back of the joint to bolt the cowl to. The strip of FRP that
was
> hacked off sandwiches between the alu stip and fuse sides and acts as a
> spacer to give a flush fit between the cowl and fuse sides.
>
> You could of course make the new cowl this way too
>
> Frank
>
> Stratus, 601 HDS, 290 hours
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Michel Therrien [mailto:mtherr@yahoo.com]
> To: zenith-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Fiberglass cowling
>
>
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Michel Therrien <mtherr@yahoo.com>
>
> Thanks Mark. So you layed the fiberglass on top of
> the fuse skin. When you re-installed the cowling, did
> you put it on top or under the skin?
>
> Michel
>
> --- "Mark A. Wood" <Mark.Wood@uvm.edu> wrote:
> > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Mark A. Wood"
> > <Mark.Wood@uvm.edu>
> >
> >
> > I went for the easy way of doing a fiberglass
> > cowling. I did the
> > plastic bag around engine type stuff then glued blue
> > board insulation
> > around it. I sawed, hot wired, and sanded this to
> > shape. I shaped to
> > the outside of the airframe. I then put a good coat
> > of wax over the
> > blue board and first three inches of the Al. I then
> > used this as a
> > male mold. I laid the fiberglass over the blue board
> > and the first
> > three inches of the Al. This needed to be filled and
> > sanded slightly
> > to make it smooth, but I think it was less work than
> > making a mold.
> > After it was formed and cut in half for the two
> > sections the blue
> > board pulled out.
> >
> > Changes if I were to do this again.
> >
> > I would have a solid shape on the front to sand to,
> > such as a piece
> > of plywood shaped as it would be at the back of the
> > nose bowl, or I
> > would use a nose bowl from Aircraft Spruce. If
> > building my own I
> > would take the wood off after shaping the rear
> > section add some blue
> > board to the front and form the nose bowl. It was
> > easy to know where
> > to shape to in the back as I shaped to the fuselage
> > but in the front
> > I was just free forming and I cut in too far a
> > couple of times and
> > had to fill with the hardware store expansion foam
> > and reshape. This
> > was a pain as the foam and the blue board sanded at
> > different rates.
> >
> > I tried to form a little of the shape by how I built
> > up the blue
> > board. The next time I would use thicker blue board
> > for less glue
> > joints and keep all the sections parallel. This
> > stuff shapes so easy
> > that you can put on lots extra and hot wire or saw
> > the first 6 inches
> > off in very little time. It is the finer stuff that
> > takes more time
> > and for that the big thing would be to have
> > something in place at the
> > front to sand to.
> >
> > I could not build a second cowl from my plug like
> > you can with a
> > female mold, but I only needed one.
> >
> > Mark
> >
> >
> > >--> Zenith-List message posted by: Michel Therrien
> > <mtherr@yahoo.com>
> > >
> > >If anyone made or plan to make (and figured out how
> > to
> > >do it) a fiberglass cowling, please contact me. I
> > >would like to check a few things with you.
> > >
> > >Thanks!
> > >
> > >Michel
> > >
> >
> > --
> > Mark Wood
> > Assistive Technology Consultant, VT I-Team
> > Center on Disability and Community Inclusion
> > University of Vermont
> >
> >
> >
> > Contributions
> > any other
> > Forums.
> >
> > latest messages.
> > List members.
> >
> > http://www.matronics.com/subscription
> > http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Zenith-List.htm
> > Digests:http://www.matronics.com/digest/zenith-list
> > http://www.matronics.com/archives http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
> > http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> =====
> ----------------------------
> Michel Therrien CH601-HD
> http://mthobby.pcperfect.com/ch601
> http://www.zenithair.com/bldrlist/profiles/mthobby
> http://pages.infinit.net/mthobby
>
> __________________________________
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>
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Message 13
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| Subject: | N601RT takes to the air |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "royt.or" <royt.or@netzero.net>
About 11:20am PST, N601RT took to the air for the first time. I had about an
exhilarating 30 minute flight which ended in a nice landing. Second flight
this afternoon, much like the first but with higher ceilings.
Thanks to all participants on this list, you helped contribute to my
completion of N601RT and to the successful first flights.
Regards,
Roy
(I don't read this account often. If you want to reach me by email and get a
reasonable response time use royDOTthomaATintelDOTcom . Sorry it's not a hot
link - I get too much spam already.)
(CH601HDS, SN 63314, nose gear, Rotax 912S, All electric IFR.)
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